Uber patrons in Chiang Mai

[Simbaya]

My best Thai friend is a tuk-tuk driver.  She assures me that drivers are VERY aware of the Uber presence, but no one is really feeling the heat--yet.  Her opinion is that some drivers may be edged out, but she hopes--although does not necessarily believe--there will always be a need for/presence of tuk-tuks.

 

What I didn't realize is that a great number (possibly the majority?) of tuk-tuk drivers rent their vehicles on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.  Call me naive: I assumed all the drivers owned these meager vehicles.

 

My friend told me that if Uber becomes the predominant mode of transportation, she's not sure what she will do.  Renting a car to become an Uber driver will eat up her profits (although we did discuss the fact that an Uber driver is "always working," versus driving around looking for fares, not to mention the "turf war" amongst tuk-tuk drivers, including having to pay off senior drivers to be allowed to inhabit the better locations).  

 

Nonetheless, she personally feels she would lose money as an Uber driver forced to rent a car versus a tuk-tuk driver forced to rent a tuk-tuk.  

 

 She also conceded that unless she owns a car outright (or has a decently financed one), in time, her current career will likely be impacted.

 

But she has a pretty pragmatic and future-thinking attitude: "People used to buy everything at stores and markets; now they buy online.  Things change.  I may have to change also."

 

I love my friend, but I personally hope that Uber will outpace tuk-tuks in time. Passenger safety is my primary concern, with air quality coming in a close second.

 

If and when that time comes, I have made a commitment to help her with getting the vehicle she needs. (And no--I'm not getting snookered.  I brought up the conversation, not her!)

 

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Simbaya

[anotheruser]

On 12/5/2016 at 3:56 PM, kenk24 said:

 

It is a negotiated fare... if you find the price too high for you, then don't go... if you find it a crap open air truck, then maybe you should find another way to go... if that road to Hang Dong is a massive traffic jam, then maybe it is not profitable for the driver to make that trip. If it is a breeze, I am sure you will find someone glad to do it for less. It is a competitive market. 

 

That's exactly right. That is also what Uber is doing.

[anotheruser]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:29 PM, bubba said:

I was just in Chiang Mai, used Uber five times. Out of those five times, two of the drivers told me that with the rates being charged, it was nearly impossible to make much if any profit at all by driving, apart from airport trips at 150 baht. Both said they were planning to give it up. Makes sense to me, as a ride across town taking 20 minutes in the horrible traffic this past week cost me about 35 baht. Added to that, they had to spend time getting to me and then driving around or waiting for the next ride. Uber takes 25% of whatever you pay, so do the math.

 

I am starting to think that unless Uber raises their rates a bit, drivers may begin to get scarce if they cannot make any money at it.

 

Same complaints  by Uber drivers in the US. Uber doesn't care they make money no matter how low the rates are. They want the fleet to be self driving cars someday. 

[anotheruser]

On 12/31/2016 at 10:17 AM, bubba said:

 

I do agree with you about that. But in this case, I am wondering whether Uber drivers make anything at all. Think about it - there is a lot of cost involved operating a car, including cost, depreciation (Uber require a late-model car), petrol, insurance, taxes, and maintenance. One driver I spoke with told me that she most often earned about 80 baht per hour, without any airport trips (150 baht flat rate). Sometimes it is zero or 20 baht, with no calls coming in. Subtract all the costs and what is left for the driver? Certainly not a decent living at near minimum wage. Housekeeping jobs at hotels probably pay much better.

 

I really like Uber as well and not just because it is so cheap; however, considering this, I have taken to at least giving the drivers a modicum of a tip. Unless Uber give them a better fare or better share of the fare, I can't imagine how long it will last, with drivers signing up, finding that they cannot earn any money and then leaving, then perhaps some new drivers coming in to have a go at it. There is a limited pool available for this. 

 

80 Baht per hour is much more than the minimum wage. 

[bubba]

Quote

80 Baht per hour is much more than the minimum wage.

 

Back to the point earlier in the thread: take that 80 baht/hour, then subtract fuel, maintenance, and depreciation costs. 

 

I would say that Uber driver does not net much more money, if any more, than minimum wage.

 

 

[sharktooth]

Nobody is holding a gun to their head...

[lkn]

3 hours ago, sharktooth said:

Nobody is holding a gun to their head...

 

Not everyone seems to be rational about what they agree to, this is why many countries and states have to outlaw professional gambling and pyramid schemes.

 

Another issue is that a guy in his early twenties probably don’t think about earning enough for pension, sick leave, taking care of children, etc., so he will be willing to work for less than what is long-term sustainable, which is why unions sometimes have to step in (in the countries where labour is actually organized).

[larrybikes]

I've been using Uber for several weeks here in Chiangmai. Last year I used Uber in KL. I used the service going to the airport in USA. Couldn't be happier. Very fair prices for a great service. I recommend Uber to all my friends.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[larrybikes]

I've been using Uber for several weeks here in Chiangmai. Last year I used Uber in KL. I used the service going to the airport in USA. Couldn't be happier. Very fair prices for a great service. I recommend Uber to all my friends.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[anotheruser]

22 hours ago, Mendo said:

I just returned from Bali to Chiang Mai and used uber while I was there. Uber is brand new there as well and absolutely hated by the local taxi mafia. When I would request rides the drivers would text me and ask to meet in a remote alley way or somewhere no one would see the pickup and no phone in your hand.

I met a great uber driver who gave me his number after the ride and I used him direct for other rides during my trip. I called him up to give me a ride to the airport to return to Chiang Mai and he told me he could not because he was just physically attacked by taxi drivers and they smashed his windows and beat him up out of anger for being a uber driver and stealing their monopoly (Taxi Mafia is WAY worse in Bali than CM)

Has anyone heard other stories of hate or violence against uber drivers in CM? 

 

That's funny. I was just in Bali and there are signs everywhere saying no Uber or Grab pick ups. So the day after new year I need a taxi for a short distance in Seminyak. The restaurant called the taxi and said the taxi wanted 100,000 Rupiah and that was the best they could negotiate for us. 

 

The fare should have been maybe 35,000 at most. I agreed to it because what are you going to do? Anyway so on the way back I started talking to my friend about how great Uber is, how they have better drivers and cars, how they are cheaper, more pleasant to deal with etc, I really went over the top with it and watched the driver in the mirror get agitated as I talked about it.

 

He wouldn't even drop us off directly at our destination so the last thing I told him is Uber does that lol

 

I hope he had a pleasant night after ward. Quite amusing to be able to directly let him know you have me this time but your days are numbered, there are other choices now. Happy 2017!

[anotheruser]

11 hours ago, bubba said:

 

Back to the point earlier in the thread: take that 80 baht/hour, then subtract fuel, maintenance, and depreciation costs. 

 

I would say that Uber driver does not net much more money, if any more, than minimum wage.

 

 

 

Uber is really only ideal for those that already have a car and want to help pay it off. If people aren't smart enough to figure out that their car will be at the end of it's life by the time it is paid off so be it. Anybody who runs out to buy a car just to drive Uber is nuts. If you are a university student and have some spare time you can try to pick up some fares here and there. 

[jobin]

News Flash!  In UK Uber drivers not able to claim self-employment.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status

 

Landmark employment tribunal ruling states firm must also pay drivers national living wage and holiday pay with huge implications for gig economy.

 

Slaves no more?  Let's hope so.

[bubba]

1 hour ago, anotheruser said:

 

That's funny. I was just in Bali and there are signs everywhere saying no Uber or Grab pick ups. So the day after new year I need a taxi for a short distance in Seminyak. The restaurant called the taxi and said the taxi wanted 100,000 Rupiah and that was the best they could negotiate for us. 

 

The fare should have been maybe 35,000 at most. I agreed to it because what are you going to do? Anyway so on the way back I started talking to my friend about how great Uber is, how they have better drivers and cars, how they are cheaper, more pleasant to deal with etc, I really went over the top with it and watched the driver in the mirror get agitated as I talked about it.

 

He wouldn't even drop us off directly at our destination so the last thing I told him is Uber does that lol

 

I hope he had a pleasant night after ward. Quite amusing to be able to directly let him know you have me this time but your days are numbered, there are other choices now. Happy 2017!

 

I know this is off-topic, but: Your best solution on Bali (or elsewhere in Indonesia) is Blue Bird Taxi. They are very well run, have professional drivers, and charge honest, fair prices using a meter. They have a smartphone app that you can get to request a ride, or you can phone them. The airport taxi mafia at Denpasar do not allow them to pick up directly there, but you can do the same trick as at BKK and walk upstairs to departure then grab a taxi that is dropping a passenger. 

[anotheruser]

41 minutes ago, bubba said:

 

I know this is off-topic, but: Your best solution on Bali (or elsewhere in Indonesia) is Blue Bird Taxi. They are very well run, have professional drivers, and charge honest, fair prices using a meter. They have a smartphone app that you can get to request a ride, or you can phone them. The airport taxi mafia at Denpasar do not allow them to pick up directly there, but you can do the same trick as at BKK and walk upstairs to departure then grab a taxi that is dropping a passenger. 

 

I believe the one the restaurant called was a Bluebird. Taxis in Bali no matter what kind they were would not take a fare for anything less than 50,000 Rupiah. Not sure if this is just lately but that was the case a week ago. Transport there was as bad as Phuket price wise. Anyway sure let's get back to Chiang Mai and Uber but it seems most everything has been said now.

[Dipterocarp]

Just got back to town tried Uber for first time yesterday. A landmark change for Chiang Mai.  Less than 100 baht charged to AMEX card for rides that I would have to beg for 250 baht, standing by the gutter in a sodding rain.

 

Instead a climate controlled enclosed vehicle coming directly to my door.  Rode shotgun in a brand new Nissan Pickup yesterday, backseat of a nice Volvo and another small Nissan sedan. Who knows the enormous economic impact the transport Mafia has over peoples spending, reluctant to go places having had to deal with these sharks?  I'll now be going farther now, taking more trips here and there, and probably spending more overall.

 

20 baht Songthaews  should still great for short trips in town. Down with the transport Mafia!

[lkn]

59 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said:

Down with the transport Mafia!

 

I think we all love the convenience that Uber brings, well, except when I tried it here in CM, I could see the car, that was supposed to pick me up, take wrong turns and the estimation of when the car would arrive go up. Eventually he called me, asking where I was, and I had to walk to his location, and of course, when I am in the car, he starts driving south, when my destination is actually North, so I had to tell him that I would be giving driving instructions, me being the “local”.

 

But for the prices, as has been pointed out above, they do not seem sustainable. A few things can happen:

 

• New people keep signing up as Uber drivers, as the old ones realize they do not make enough, and from the customer’s POV nothing changes.
• Drivers organize themselves and demand higher prices. Customers may call this a mafia :)
• Legislators realize what is going on (maybe through lobbying) and makes the service illegal (as has happened in some other countries and states).

 

I omitted self-driving cars from the list, even though I know that is Uber’s long-term goal, but we’re not going to see these for at least another decade.

 

As for unsustainable prices, I just looked up Chiang Mai to Mae Sai, and Uber can take you for 896-1,189 baht. After Uber’s cut of 25% that is 672-892 baht for a 250 km journey where the driver presumably has to go back again, so 500 km for less than 1,000 baht, meaning the driver is making less than 2 baht per km. for this trip, and that is before gas and depreciation of their vehicle.

 

I am not a car owner, so I do not know gas costs or how many kilometers per liter, but I vaguely recall hearing something like 20 km per liter being a good engine, and gas in Thailand being 30-40 baht. So gas expenses alone (with those figures) would be 1.5-2 baht/km.

[Chicog]

On 1/7/2017 at 5:51 PM, lkn said:

for example I have been at the night bazaar and asked the parked tuk-tuks about going to Maya for what I was willing to pay, and the first two passed on the trip, but the third one was willing to take me there, i.e. there are no fixed prices.

 

At Central Airport, there is a "Public Transportation Desk" and a big board listing prices to various destinations. The lazy ingrates that sit there just ignore it.

 

I would be happy to pay Bt100 from there to Loi Kroh, but they all want Bt150, presumably to compensate them for having to sit on their fat ar$es for most of the day.

So I'm happy to go out the other end and pick up an uber, which costs around Bt70 for the same trip.

I used it extensively over the holiday period and had no problems at all with the driver finding either myself or the destination.

Good riddance to the farang-robbing thieves that drive the tuk tuks and Songthaews I say.

 

Either they will get in line or go out of business. Either way it should make the others more competitive.

 

I was told there are over 200 Uber drivers in CM now, covering shifts around the clock, although it seems there are more available in the day than the evening (and night).

 

 

[bubba]

8 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

I think we all love the convenience that Uber brings, well, except when I tried it here in CM, I could see the car, that was supposed to pick me up, take wrong turns and the estimation of when the car would arrive go up. Eventually he called me, asking where I was, and I had to walk to his location, and of course, when I am in the car, he starts driving south, when my destination is actually North, so I had to tell him that I would be giving driving instructions, me being the “local”.

 

But for the prices, as has been pointed out above, they do not seem sustainable. A few things can happen:

 

• New people keep signing up as Uber drivers, as the old ones realize they do not make enough, and from the customer’s POV nothing changes.
• Drivers organize themselves and demand higher prices. Customers may call this a mafia :)
• Legislators realize what is going on (maybe through lobbying) and makes the service illegal (as has happened in some other countries and states).

 

I omitted self-driving cars from the list, even though I know that is Uber’s long-term goal, but we’re not going to see these for at least another decade.

 

As for unsustainable prices, I just looked up Chiang Mai to Mae Sai, and Uber can take you for 896-1,189 baht. After Uber’s cut of 25% that is 672-892 baht for a 250 km journey where the driver presumably has to go back again, so 500 km for less than 1,000 baht, meaning the driver is making less than 2 baht per km. for this trip, and that is before gas and depreciation of their vehicle.

 

I am not a car owner, so I do not know gas costs or how many kilometers per liter, but I vaguely recall hearing something like 20 km per liter being a good engine, and gas in Thailand being 30-40 baht. So gas expenses alone (with those figures) would be 1.5-2 baht/km.

 

I think one problem is that when you put your location in in English, the actual location is not always accurate. Be sure to move the map around so that the pointer is actually were you are.

 

That's right about the drive to Mae Sai; however, I seriously doubt that an Uber driver in Chiang Mai would accept that request.

 

 

[ricklev]

In Bangkok drivers have the option of refusing a fare which is outside of the UberX service zone.  I'm imagine the same is true for Chiang Mai.  Customer service will send you the service zone map on request.  I think.

[Dipterocarp]

If the fares are not fair they should be raised. I just do not agree with dual pricing,  fleecing, and Taxi Meter with meters never used one time in the history of CM. Nobody forces people to drive for Uber, nor take a particular trip. There should be more public transport options for everyone. Standing in the blistering heat however or rain waving past 4 or 5 vehicles to get a ride because of my SKIN COLOR is no fun. Example,  old  guy with a brand new Songthaew gold-rimmed glasses pressed safari suit. Wants 200 baht to go 2km. I told him 1 person not 10! I call that a shark/predator. Mafia is a bad word but in actuality if somebody with a Tuk wants to work harder and maybe charge a little less what happens?  Threats/intimidation/banishment from parking spots. That's not solidarity nor the fault of foreigners. It is thuggery.  Anyway unless Uber makes passengers in Thailand register by race to facilitate dual pricing (555) we will soon see No Uber signs at malls and supermarkets, and after a few drivers cars are vandalized it will end. Nothing good ever lasts.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[lkn]

55 minutes ago, bubba said:

I think one problem is that when you put your location in in English, the actual location is not always accurate. Be sure to move the map around so that the pointer is actually were you are.

 

That's right about the drive to Mae Sai; however, I seriously doubt that an Uber driver in Chiang Mai would accept that request.

 

I did make sure the pin was at my location and that the street name matched. This guy was at one point driving away from my area. I did ask him if he was not able to see my pin on his phone, but he seemed to brush off the question.

 

He told me he used to do marketing for AEON, which I do not know what is, but a quick look at their web sites, and it seems to be about loans and insurances, so I assume he was an “independent agent” trying to resell their stuff. He also mentioned he had 12 buffaloes, so he did some sort of farming.

 

As for no driver accepting a 250 km drive, I just tried it, and it was immediately accepted by a driver. Unsure what happens if a driver accepts and then changes his mind once the customer is in the car and driver realizes what he actually just agreed to.

 

OTOH except for the 20 baht base fee, a drive to Mae Sai is using the same payment structure as any other ride, i.e. 2 baht per km and 2 baht per minute, so it shouldn’t really make that much of a difference, it just makes it so much more obvious that the driver is not paid a fair price.

Edited January 12, 2017 by lkn

[ricklev]

The drivers don't know the destination until they pick you up. They can only refuse the fare then if its out of the service area. 

[Dipterocarp]

I was in US last month a driver who took my ride kept getting farther away. After minutes later I messaged him asking if he wanted to drop

it. He told me to choose another. Some kind of a waste of time. Asked the guy who showed up, said it was something to do with passenger

not able to leave a bad review if passenger cancels. Why accept it in the first place?

[lkn]

22 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said:

I just do not agree with dual pricing

 

I think tuk-tuks are expensive for everyone, unless you know the driver. At least when I am with Thais, we get the same price as if I had been alone, that is even when I hide until they have negotiated the price.

 

Songthaews can overcharge tourists, initially I was a little annoyed by this, but with a better understanding of just how little they make, I can certainly understand why they try to charge people they think are unaware of the standard price, a little more. Even in the West, you’ll find “tourist shops” where “local products” are sold at quite the premium.

 

And for God’s sake, a songthaew ride is half a dollar. In any other context, someone from the West would be embarrassed to pay that as a tip, let alone for the entire ride.

 

[Dipterocarp]

20 baht Songtheaw rides in town are no problem and much appreciated, if anything a rise is overdue.

My problem is with the fleecers, exploiters, and time wasters. I don't want to flag down a red car if he is going to insult my intelligence and waste the drivers time too. Night time Tuk-Tuk, I pay. What choice do I have? Turned my phone on last night around Midnight saw several Uber cars nearby...

 

I have had the experience of jumping on a 20 baht Songthaew to go from Nimman to Kad Suan Kaew. The 

"How Much?" Chinese tourist gals picked up after me got double charged and got off before me. Is it their fault for not knowing the fare or the driver for ripping them off?

 

If Uber continues I will be taking more rides and probably spending more on transport in general, especially in Hot seasons. Only exemption perhaps National parks but I can never support duel pricing, chiseling foreigners and fleecing. Worst thing about this country totally anachronistic and rascist. I don't buy trinkets in markets

 

 I see plenty of Thais driving around in Lambos etc. who have 100 times the money average white tourists have.  "Farang hab money can pay". What garbage!

Edited January 12, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[bubba]

47 minutes ago, ricklev said:

The drivers don't know the destination until they pick you up. They can only refuse the fare then if its out of the service area. 

 

 

Actually, the app requests you to enter your destination in a field just under your pickup location. You should do that so that the driver (1) knows where you want to go in case he/she does not want to go there, in which case he/she will not accept the alert when it comes in, and (2) they will already have your course plotted on their device when you get in the car. You will also have the course on your device so that you can check to see if you are proceeding along the most direct route.

 

I was talking with an Uber driver in the USA once and he told me that it was annoying when riders did not enter their destination, for the above reasons. He said that was one reason that he would not rate a rider with five stars.

 

Also, a driver can refuse to accept an offer when it comes in (Uber then goes to the next closest driver), or cancel the ride after they have accepted.

Edited January 12, 2017 by bubba

[lkn]

26 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said:

but I can never support duel pricing

 

Market segmentation goes on everywhere, but in the West we try to camouflage it, as it seems to get the blood boiling in some individuals — except of course student and senior discounts, these are often made readily available for all to see, yet no-one seems to go on a rant about how many seniors have much more than your typical single mom with two kids…

 

[ricklev]

4 hours ago, bubba said:

 

 

Actually, the app requests you to enter your destination in a field just under your pickup location. You should do that so that the driver (1) knows where you want to go in case he/she does not want to go there, in which case he/she will not accept the alert when it comes in, and (2) they will already have your course plotted on their device when you get in the car. You will also have the course on your device so that you can check to see if you are proceeding along the most direct route.

 

I was talking with an Uber driver in the USA once and he told me that it was annoying when riders did not enter their destination, for the above reasons. He said that was one reason that he would not rate a rider with five stars.

 

Also, a driver can refuse to accept an offer when it comes in (Uber then goes to the next closest driver), or cancel the ride after they have accepted.

Hmmmm. Are you sure that's how it works? Google tells me otherwise........ but maybe the new app introduced in Thailand a couple of weeks ago includes that info for the driver.    

 

https://www.google.co.th/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enTH726TH726&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=do uber drivers know the destination

 

Uber's help page for drivers is pretty interesting:

 

https://help.uber.com/h/64904bd6-66ca-47e9-965d-324413079f5c

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by ricklev

[bubba]

32 minutes ago, ricklev said:

Hmmmm. Are you sure that's how it works? Google tells me otherwise........ but maybe the new app introduced in Thailand a couple of weeks ago includes that info for the driver.    

 

https://www.google.co.th/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enTH726TH726&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=do uber drivers know the destination

 

Uber's help page for drivers is pretty interesting:

 

https://help.uber.com/h/64904bd6-66ca-47e9-965d-324413079f5c

 

 

 

Have you ever wondered an uber rider’s final destination before you arrive at their location? I have good news for you.  You can see where your passengers are going before you arrive at the pickup location, yes there’s a way.

 

http://rideordriveuber.com/how-to-find-an-uber-riders-final-destination-before-picking-them-up/#

Edited January 12, 2017 by bubba
added link

[ricklev]

1 minute ago, bubba said:

 

 

Have you ever wondered an uber rider’s final destination before you arrive at their location? I have good news for you.  You can see where your passengers are going before you arrive at the pickup location, yes there’s a way.

 

http://rideordriveuber.com/how-to-find-an-uber-riders-final-destination-before-picking-them-up/#

You must be right then!