Capital gains tax in Thailand

[A1Str8]

According to Thai laws...If capital gains arise outside of Thailand it is not taxable.

 

If a Thai citizen trades forex through a US brokerage firm, does that fall into the aforementioned category and therefore is not taxable? 

 

 

I know I am asking just the right people 555

 

but maybe someone knows and cares to share

 

 

 

Thank you in advance

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

The gains are taxable in the US assuming what you say - he's using a US brokerage firm. Google it, there's plenty of information

[A1Str8]

12 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

The gains are taxable in the US assuming what you say - he's using a US brokerage firm. Google it, there's plenty of information

No he's not a US citizen neither a resident. He's not tax liable there. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

6 minutes ago, A1Str8 said:

No he's not a US citizen neither a resident. He's not tax liable there. 

I bow to your superior knowledge of US tax law. So you're saying that a non-US citizen/resident carrying on a money-making activity in the US is wholly exempt from US taxes? Can you provide evidence of this?

[A1Str8]

2 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I bow to your superior knowledge of US tax law. So you're saying that a non-US citizen/resident carrying on a money-making activity in the US is wholly exempt from US taxes? Can you provide evidence of this?

If someone doesn't live in the US, has no green card, no social sec, never even set foot on US soil, but is a trader who has an account with a forex trading firm that is based in the US(which you open online), then how is he going to be taxed? How it that individual tax liable? The IRS doesn't keep records on aliens. It's not the NSA. 

I know for a fact that in such case you are not required to pay tax to the Irritating Revenue Service, so let's not deviate from the original question. 

But thank you for bowing down. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

11 minutes ago, A1Str8 said:

If someone doesn't live in the US, has no green card, no social sec, never even set foot on US soil, but is a trader who has an account with a forex trading firm that is based in the US(which you open online), then how is he going to be taxed? How it that individual tax liable? The IRS doesn't keep records on aliens. It's not the NSA. 

I know for a fact that in such case you are not required to pay tax to the Irritating Revenue Service, so let's not deviate from the original question. 

But thank you for bowing down. 

So the Form 1099-B that the brokerage is obliged to fill out, and a copy of which they'll lodge with the IRS - what happens to that?

[A1Str8]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

So the Form 1099-B that the brokerage is obliged to fill out, and a copy of which they'll lodge with the IRS - what happens to that?

They fill it out, send it to the IRS end of story since there's no double taxation in place between said countries. 

Since the person in question is a Thai citizen, he is supposed to pay the tax after this income to the Thai gov not the US gov. 

But according to Thai law...If capital gains arise outside of Thailand it is not taxable. 

So we are back to square one and that would be the original issue, that I am in the process of figuring out. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

I've already told you the answer but clearly you don't like it. What you are proposing is tax evasion based on "they'll never find out". Forex trades are not all counted as long-term capital gains and therefore tax is payable by non-residents on the portion that is a short-term capital gain http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/09/forex-taxation-basics.asp

[Naam]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

The gains are taxable in the US assuming what you say - he's using a US brokerage firm. Google it, there's plenty of information

a Thai or any other non-U.S. citizen/person does not pay any taxes using a U.S. broker or U.S. bank trading forex. that also pertains to any capital gains and interest income except dividends paid by U.S. corporates.

[SaintLouisBlues]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

a Thai or any other non-U.S. citizen/person does not pay any taxes using a U.S. broker or U.S. bank trading forex. that also pertains to any capital gains and interest income except dividends paid by U.S. corporates.

Since the OP clearly knows the answers I wonder why he bothered starting the topic 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I've already told you the answer but clearly you don't like it. What you are proposing is tax evasion based on "they'll never find out". Forex trades are not all counted as long-term capital gains and therefore tax is payable by non-residents on the portion that is a short-term capital gain http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/09/forex-taxation-basics.asp

sorry mate, you are wrong. Thai income tax laws and regulations do not differentiate between long and short term income as long as the gains were achieved abroad and not transferred to Thailand the same year as earned. that applies to Thai citizerns as well as to resident and non-resident Foreigners.

 

sorry soemthing went wrong when quoting "who said what"

[Naam]

1 hour ago, A1Str8 said:

They fill it out, send it to the IRS end of story since there's no double taxation in place between said countries. 

Since the person in question is a Thai citizen, he is supposed to pay the tax after this income to the Thai gov not the US gov. 

But according to Thai law...If capital gains arise outside of Thailand it is not taxable. 

So we are back to square one and that would be the original issue, that I am in the process of figuring out. 

more incorrect information. no "1099" is issued if the beneficiary has submitted form W-8BEN (Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner).

[Naam]

11 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Since the OP clearly knows the answers I wonder why he bothered starting the topic 

perhaps he wasn't sure?

[A1Str8]

8 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I've already told you the answer but clearly you don't like it. What you are proposing is tax evasion based on "they'll never find out". Forex trades are not all counted as long-term capital gains and therefore tax is payable by non-residents on the portion that is a short-term capital gain http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/09/forex-taxation-basics.asp

I have never proposed tax evasion. By the way you simply told me to google it. That's not answer. 

[A1Str8]

I don't know the answer that's why I started the topic. But now it turns out, no 1099 is issued in the first place so once again stick to the original question. 

I am talking Thai law, not US law. It's already clear that in the US, a Thai citizen doesn't need to pay tax in this case. 

[Naam]

10 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

If a Thai citizen trades forex through a US brokerage firm, does that fall into the aforementioned category and therefore is not taxable? 

 

Quote

Thai income tax laws and regulations do not differentiate between long and short term income as long as the gains were achieved abroad and not transferred to Thailand the same year as earned. that applies to Thai citizerns as well as to resident and non-resident Foreigners.

not taxable if

Quote

not transferred to Thailand the same year as earned. that applies to Thai citizerns as well as to resident and non-resident Foreigners.

 

[sharecropper]

11 hours ago, Naam said:

sorry mate, you are wrong. Thai income tax laws and regulations do not differentiate between long and short term income as long as the gains were achieved abroad and not transferred to Thailand the same year as earned. that applies to Thai citizerns as well as to resident and non-resident Foreigners.

 

sorry soemthing went wrong when quoting "who said what"

 

Very interesting. Thanks.

 

I have often wondered whether capital gains I've made trading US shares, which are then transferred to my UK bank account, could ever be touchable by the Thai tax authorities, on the basis that I live here.

[al007]

19 hours ago, sharecropper said:

 

Very interesting. Thanks.

 

I have often wondered whether capital gains I've made trading US shares, which are then transferred to my UK bank account, could ever be touchable by the Thai tax authorities, on the basis that I live here.

 

I believe if you live here as a retired person, pension income is tax free

 

Any other income generated overseas is not taxable if it is not brought to Thailand in the year in which it is earnt

 

So if held in say UK bank account for at least a year no problem, but better Isle of man or channel Islands, keeps you clear of UK tax legally, if non resident

 

Also you can have an Interactive Brokers  (IB )account with your Thai address, and linked to many bank accounts

 

Taxation of foreigners is I believe exceptionally generous and kind, on my pension I only suffer tax at 2.5%, payable before it arrives here

 

Also if a UK citizen income generated outside UK when not resident also no taxable, unlike the USA that taxes world income

 

 

 

[sharecropper]

Most interesting. Thanks.

[TravelerEastWest]

"According to Thai laws...If capital gains arise outside of Thailand it is not taxable.

If a Thai citizen trades forex through a US brokerage firm, does that fall into the aforementioned category and therefore is not taxable?" 

 

1) As mentioned in this thread the normal situation is where the income is not brought into Thailand in the year it is earned - not sure why exactly - would be interesting to read a good translation of the Thai revenue applicable code or maybe treaty provision? I do know that not all Thai revenue agents agree with the above... Can you cite and translate for us the law that supports your position that capital gains outside of Thailand are not taxable?

 

2) Capital gains could be associated with a trade or business (probably taxable) or a part time venture or something else. Without more details no one can give you a reliable answer. Even with details unless you are a trained Thai CPA with extensive tax experience it would be difficult to give  a reliable opinion.

 

3) Also curious as to what you are thinking when you mention using a US brokerage firm - are you saying the exact same investments through a Thai firm are taxable in Thailand?

 

4) It would be very interesting to hear the opinion of a Thai revenue agent - he may say that you have an office in Thailand, and do your research in Thailand, and that you work and earn money in Thailand therefore need to pay tax in Thailand on your investing business - the mere fact that you use a US broker may not help you avoid Thai taxes.

 

[Naam]

Quote

Taxation of investment income and capital gains

Any capital gain or investment income from sources outside Thailand is not subject to taxation unless a resident taxpayer remitted the process into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received.

 

https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html#07

 

 

Quote

KPMG is a professional service company, being one of the Big Four auditors, along with Deloitte, EY and PwC.

 

Seated in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, KPMG employs 174,000 people and has three lines of services: audit, tax, and advisory. Its tax and advisory services are further divided into various service groups.

 

The name "KPMG" was chosen when KMG (Klynveld Main Goerdeler) merged with Peat Marwick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPMG

no more yada yada yakety-yak please!

[ThailandLOS]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:18 AM, A1Str8 said:

No he's not a US citizen neither a resident. He's not tax liable there. 

 

This is 100% correct. Traders that are holding US based account are asked to provide full documentation on their citizenship/residence and no US tax is withheld. I've been a client with a NY firm for years, and this is how it works.

[1FinickyOne]

Just something to look into - - some of the investment accounts in USA require a residence in USA... I am not sure if this applies to forex trading but it does to some investment accounts... 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

Just something to look into - - some of the investment accounts in USA require a residence in USA... I am not sure if this applies to forex trading but it does to some investment accounts... 

who or what is an investment account?

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

who or what is an investment account?

 a managed account... some are run by banks... some by private investment firms and managers... 

[ThailandLOS]

5 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Just something to look into - - some of the investment accounts in USA require a residence in USA... I am not sure if this applies to forex trading but it does to some investment accounts... 

 

No it doesn't, not to FX or any other type of common trading instruments such as stocks, index futures, commodities or stock options.

 

Never heard of any "investment account" that requires US residency, and I 've held/hold quite a few, among these shares in managed trading accounts. So don't know where you get this from.

[ThailandLOS]

*double post*

[1FinickyOne]

6 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

No it doesn't, not to FX or any other type of common trading instruments such as stocks, index futures, commodities or stock options.

 

Never heard of any "investment account" that requires US residency, and I 've held/hold quite a few, among these shares in managed trading accounts. So don't know where you get this from.

 

 

got it from the people who turned me down... and the others who required an address - - but if you don't need it, fine with me - just a mention of personal experience... 

[Naam]

11 hours ago, kenk24 said:

 a managed account... some are run by banks... some by private investment firms and managers... 

the international diction for an account like this is "discretionary account" as opposed to a "non-discretionary account" which is managed by the beneficiary. for both accounts/portfolios the same rules and regulations according to globally adopted KYC (Know Your Client) standards apply but never a residence in a specific country.