NGV bus scandal: Getting more likely that company will lose contract

[Prbkk]

The likely beneficiary is whichever company buys these buses at a knock-down price and then on-sells them to the BMTA at the price specified in the original contract. A windfall for someone ....no doubt someone with good connections.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, worgeordie said:

They just cannot help themselves,and pull a fast one,to maximise profit

at the expense of the country,the importer is going to have to come up

with the extra taxes and duties,or be left with 489 NGV buses on his hands,

and lose the deposit.

regards worgeordie

 

Oh dear, how sad, never mind, lovely boy.

[anon4637435435]

15 hours ago, fruitman said:

And nobody will go to jail for it, not even loose their job.

They might lose there despoits on some new toys, super cars, homes and such. I feel so sorry for these people....

[smutcakes]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I wonder why everyone is blaming the government. They bought the busses for an importer at an agreed upon price.

The importer is the one doing the tax fraud to keep his costs down.

Can blame the government for a thing.

Seems people want the government to commit fraud just to get the busses.

In fact its the importer that just had to pay the tax and the government gets their busses.

He won't do that because his loss would be to big.

 

 

So the Government has no obligation to select its suppliers/partners carefully, and not select crooks?

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

The Government is constantly accusing others of trying to ruin its reputation.  There is absolutely no need for "others" to even try, as the Government can do it all by themselves.  

 

How many times have we read of Government Statements being announced and then "clarified" due to "misunderstandings" by the public, (a recent example was the new 10 year Visa), of "misunderstandings" of Government policy by the International media/foreign countries/organisations, or of misleading and often contradictory statements made by the Government but supposedly made by foreign countries though never substantiated?

 

Contracts made with completion dates never met and resulting penalties never actually reported as being paid and if paid, to whom.

 

Roads being built which require substantial repairs after only one year and in some cases the repaired sections themselves failing within months.  We never hear of any contractors being held to account and often the same contractors are engaged again on subsequent works.

 

No need to go into the Justice system as the actions or non-actions of the police force in many cases and the ongoing non-arrest of a famous monk adequately illustrates how the law works here.

 

Then there is the long-winding route of the road map supposedly culminating in an election sometime never but if and when held with a predictable result following numerous amendments to a Charter AFTER the public hadvoted on the original version.

 

I could go on but I am a little weary of having to repeat the same things year after year, so I will leave it to others to fill in the gaps.

 

Before the farang-haters jump on me and tell me to go home, let me say that my comments only relate to the Government's belief that it is the public who are ruining its reputation, whereas the truth is that they do not need any help.

 

I choose to live in Thailand and I am happy here and, if allowed to do so, I will die here, hopefully without any outside help. 

 

[elgordo38]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Thai Rath meanwhile wrote a damning editorial piece that spoke of a web of corruption over the supply of the buses in five successive governments.

Yeah this corruption exist all over. They were just unlucky enough to get caught. Maybe customs was unhappy with the entry fee paid. Anybody want a large doorstop?

[Golden Triangle]

This is a farce that the late Brian Rix would have been proud of (some of you may have to Google him) I should think that by now our esteemed leader is thoroughly pissed off, he has been trying to eradicate corruption since he and his followers took power, now he has a private company that won a tender to supply greener public transport cock a snoot at him and has tried to fiddle the system, I can see the company going bust and some top executives having to pay a very heavy price for their foolhardiness.  

[fruitman]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I wonder why everyone is blaming the government. They bought the busses for an importer at an agreed upon price.

The importer is the one doing the tax fraud to keep his costs down.

Can blame the government for a thing.

Seems people want the government to commit fraud just to get the busses.

In fact its the importer that just had to pay the tax and the government gets their busses.

He won't do that because his loss would be to big.

 

 

Mr. Prayuth can force the importer to pay the tax and deliver them before the big openingparty.

 

If he refuses to pay importtax take all his belongings and call him bankrupt plus a fraudster who belongs in jail.

 

He also has to pay for all the damage to our longues since we 'll have to live with those fuming oldtimers for another decade.

[smutcakes]

19 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

This is a farce that the late Brian Rix would have been proud of (some of you may have to Google him) I should think that by now our esteemed leader is thoroughly pissed off, he has been trying to eradicate corruption since he and his followers took power, now he has a private company that won a tender to supply greener public transport cock a snoot at him and has tried to fiddle the system, I can see the company going bust and some top executives having to pay a very heavy price for their foolhardiness.  

 

Unless the executives are connected to military or police.....

[Srikcir]

14 hours ago, trogers said:

Contract cancelled. Buses will be shipped back to Malaysia?

Maybe a quick discounted sale to the other ASEAN countries like Myanmar, Cambodia and Vietnam that might accept the buses as assembled in Malaysia.

[BuckBee]

You will find the Malaysian company has Thai links, just not the best links or customs would of been smoothed out easily. Typical mess caused by greed and corruption, country has no hope until this selfish money worshipping is taught to be wrong and people learn responsibility and have interested in helping others and not just themselves. The bad side of thainess unfortunately.

[robblok]

 
So the Government has no obligation to select its suppliers/partners carefully, and not select crooks?
 

How do you know the government dis not check this before ? This has nothing to do with the government at all.

Now the government was even prudent and will get the deposit from the supplier that was negotiated in case of not delivering.

Seems they took the right steps asked for a security deposit and all.

Sometimes crap like this just happens. I would be on your side if there was no such clause in the contract.

But i guess you just like to bash the government even though it is the BMA and not junta.

I just used government because everyone mentioned them. But in fact its the BMA. Still all the correct steps been taken.

[robblok]

 
Mr. Prayuth can force the importer to pay the tax and deliver them before the big openingparty.
 
If he refuses to pay importtax take all his belongings and call him bankrupt plus a fraudster who belongs in jail.
 
He also has to pay for all the damage to our longues since we 'll have to live with those fuming oldtimers for another decade.

Why do you think there was a clause in the contract and a deposit from the supplier. That is there in case like this. So yes the supplier loses money.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

How do you know the government dis not check this before ? This has nothing to do with the government at all.

Now the government was even prudent and will get the deposit from the supplier that was negotiated in case of not delivering.

Seems they took the right steps asked for a security deposit and all.

Sometimes crap like this just happens. I would be on your side if there was no such clause in the contract.

But i guess you just like to bash the government even though it is the BMA and not junta.

I just used government because everyone mentioned them. But in fact its the BMA. Still all the correct steps been taken.

 

In this particular case, it seems like the awarded contractor has tried to pull a fast one, but when the BMA are spending billions of the tax payers money i fully expect them to take a keen interest in the awarded parties performance, delivery of the vehicles and compliance with laws. The BMA has a responsibility to the Thai taxpayer, they cannot just pass that off to a 3rd party and say its not their responsibility. 

 

I could only speculate as to why the awarded contractor thought they could get away with it........

 

Up until your original post in the thread, i don't think many people were actually even blaming it on the Government More a collective groan that its always the same regardless of who is in power, or what deal is being done. Lets see if charges are laid for any type of false decleration.

[Freed1948]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

How do you know the government dis not check this before ? This has nothing to do with the government at all.

Now the government was even prudent and will get the deposit from the supplier that was negotiated in case of not delivering.

Seems they took the right steps asked for a security deposit and all.

Sometimes crap like this just happens. I would be on your side if there was no such clause in the contract.

But i guess you just like to bash the government even though it is the BMA and not junta.

I just used government because everyone mentioned them. But in fact its the BMA. Still all the correct steps been taken.

 

I think you will find it's the BMTA not the BMA!

[JAG]

Maybe a quick discounted sale to the other ASEAN countries like Myanmar, Cambodia and Vietnam that might accept the buses as assembled in Malaysia.

Trouble is, they're right hand drive, which rather limits the resale options.

[bheard]

I am happy to hear the Customs guys are doing their job. Well done!
 
If it was the previous government, the Customs guys may have been silenced. Thank goodness the Army is in control, and support government officials in doing their jobs properly.  
 

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.
If yes, tick 'like'.
If no, then get real, maybe customs missed out on their cut (not talking about tax), so now they're getting their own back.
A much more realistic assessment of the situation.
Nice to see the show!

[robblok]

 
In this particular case, it seems like the awarded contractor has tried to pull a fast one, but when the BMA are spending billions of the tax payers money i fully expect them to take a keen interest in the awarded parties performance, delivery of the vehicles and compliance with laws. The BMA has a responsibility to the Thai taxpayer, they cannot just pass that off to a 3rd party and say its not their responsibility. 
 
I could only speculate as to why the awarded contractor thought they could get away with it........
 
Up until your original post in the thread, i don't think many people were actually even blaming it on the Government More a collective groan that its always the same regardless of who is in power, or what deal is being done. Lets see if charges are laid for any type of false decleration.

Its all the importer / seller its responsibility. I don't see any blame for the government / BMTA they have even a clause in the contract that awards them money if the seller cant deliver. The fraud is all on the importer / seller. The government is just upholding the law by checking if the right import taxes are paid.

It really has nothing to do with whoever is in charge just a bad corrupt importer.

[smutcakes]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its all the importer / seller its responsibility. I don't see any blame for the government / BMTA they have even a clause in the contract that awards them money if the seller cant deliver. The fraud is all on the importer / seller. The government is just upholding the law by checking if the right import taxes are paid.

It really has nothing to do with whoever is in charge just a bad corrupt importer.

 

So when a developer builds a crap condominium its not their fault and they have no responsibility, its just a bad contractor they engaged.......

[JAG]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

I wonder why everyone is blaming the government. They bought the busses for an importer at an agreed upon price.

The importer is the one doing the tax fraud to keep his costs down.

Can blame the government for a thing.

Seems people want the government to commit fraud just to get the busses.

In fact its the importer that just had to pay the tax and the government gets their busses.

He won't do that because his loss would be to big.

 

I'm not particularly up to speed on best practice when it comes to this sort of government (or local authority) purchases, but surely before agreeing to part with a very large "sum of dosh" the purchaser (a government employee) would have a: checked that the buses were made in Malaysia as the seller claimed - possibly even inspecting the manufacturing facilities - and b: popped across the corridor to the customs blokes to ask whether the duty the provider expected to pay was kosher?

 

Or did he just point at a catalogue and say "I'll take 489 of these ones please, can you do them in pale blue?"

[fruitman]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Its all the importer / seller its responsibility. I don't see any blame for the government / BMTA they have even a clause in the contract that awards them money if the seller cant deliver. The fraud is all on the importer / seller. The government is just upholding the law by checking if the right import taxes are paid.

It really has nothing to do with whoever is in charge just a bad corrupt importer.

 

It depends what BKK ordered, buses made in China or made in Malaysia...i bet they knew what they were buying, not?

 

Now the importer is making all Bangkokians/Thai loose face, even mr Prayuth already planned the openingparty for them.

 

Why do they buy from such unreliable companies? Not strange that Volvo wasn't interested in dealing with the Thai, i bet some more big buscompanies think the same from now on.

 

Also other companies will think twice before doing business with the Thai government. 

 

Is it really so hard to buy some new buses from taxpayers money? This is bad, very bad, even when they don't loose any money on the deal.

 

And what about the busdrivers who finally would have gotten new buses to drive, they still have to drive the old crappy ones which blow huge black clouds in all the sois.

 

I still didn't hear what mr Prayuth has to day about this, why is he so quiet?

[ratcatcher]

21 minutes ago, fruitman said:

 

It depends what BKK ordered, buses made in China or made in Malaysia...i bet they knew what they were buying, not?

 

Now the importer is making all Bangkokians/Thai loose face, even mr Prayuth already planned the openingparty for them.

 

Why do they buy from such unreliable companies? Not strange that Volvo wasn't interested in dealing with the Thai, i bet some more big buscompanies think the same from now on.

 

Also other companies will think twice before doing business with the Thai government. 

 

Is it really so hard to buy some new buses from taxpayers money? This is bad, very bad, even when they don't loose any money on the deal.

 

And what about the busdrivers who finally would have gotten new buses to drive, they still have to drive the old crappy ones which blow huge black clouds in all the sois.

 

I still didn't hear what mr Prayuth has to day about this, why is he so quiet?

I still didn't hear what mr Prayuth has to day about this, why is he so quiet?

 

Be fare, maybe he's on a busman's holiday?

[ldiablo72]

Funny how everyone here in the past liked to lambast Thai customs every chance they got, but suddenly they believe everything that customs is claiming.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

 

It depends what BKK ordered, buses made in China or made in Malaysia...i bet they knew what they were buying, not?

 

Now the importer is making all Bangkokians/Thai loose face, even mr Prayuth already planned the openingparty for them.

 

Why do they buy from such unreliable companies? Not strange that Volvo wasn't interested in dealing with the Thai, i bet some more big buscompanies think the same from now on.

 

Also other companies will think twice before doing business with the Thai government. 

 

Is it really so hard to buy some new buses from taxpayers money? This is bad, very bad, even when they don't loose any money on the deal.

 

And what about the busdrivers who finally would have gotten new buses to drive, they still have to drive the old crappy ones which blow huge black clouds in all the sois.

 

I still didn't hear what mr Prayuth has to day about this, why is he so quiet?

No they just ordered buses to be delivered in Thailand at certain specifications for an agreed upon price. Its the importer who is the one who is the crook not the goverment. If they agree with volvo or whoever to deliver buses to Thailand they too take into account taxes. 

 

So it has nothing to do with the government at all, they indeed don't lose any money on it.. they even get a couple of million 300 or so baht if it falls through. So not bad at all they took all the required precautions as per normal business. 

Seems that you imply that the government should forgo the taxes to get the buses and in doing so promote corruption and give the importer a free ride. That would set an really bad example far worse as what your talking about.

 

As for why did they buy from an unreliable source.. they took that into account with the big 300 million fine for non delivery. Nobody wants to lose that kind of money don't you think. This money was put into an account so its secure and can be collected by the BMTA.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by robblok

[fruitman]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

No they just ordered buses to be delivered in Thailand at certain specifications for an agreed upon price. Its the importer who is the one who is the crook not the goverment. If they agree with volvo or whoever to deliver buses to Thailand they too take into account taxes. 

 

So it has nothing to do with the government at all, they indeed don't lose any money on it.. they even get a couple of million 300 or so baht if it falls through. So not bad at all they took all the required precautions as per normal business. 

Seems that you imply that the government should forgo the taxes to get the buses and in doing so promote corruption and give the importer a free ride. That would set an really bad example far worse as what your talking about.

 

As for why did they buy from an unreliable source.. they took that into account with the big 300 million fine for non delivery. Nobody wants to lose that kind of money don't you think. This money was put into an account so its secure and can be collected by the BMTA.

 

 

 

So the government buys 3000 buses and has no idea where they are produced??? And you believe that?

 

Also they bought maintenance-contract with it, again they don't know wether the technicians are chinese or malays?? I don't believe that.

 

If you buy a new Toyota you also want to know where it's built right? In Thailand or in Japan, makes a big difference in price and quality. Same goes for New Balance shoes, made in the UK cost double price, go  have a look in your NB-shop if you don't believe me. Or have a look in the mall, they have tv's "made in japan" who cost double, same tv.

 

Why would we be happy with 300 mill baht, in the meantime the buses pollute the whole city with their huge black fumes. They should force the importer to deliver them in time. We need new buses, very urgent! Now it takes another year before they are here.

 

 

 

[ableguy]

On 12/9/2016 at 9:14 PM, colinneil said:

You could not make up things like this.

Surely someone should have checked things before now.

Made in China but   supposedly fitted out/finished in Malaysia, massive order and nobody checked bu.....t.

Somebody paid a backhander to look the other way.

My friend everyone gets a slice of the action, they have to , just think of all the office clerks involved, corruption is so endemic in every level of society, it will never be eradicated not in our life time.

you could not find a bloody pencil in any state office that did not involve some one some where making money outside the normal process.

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, ableguy said:

My friend everyone gets a slice of the action, they have to , just think of all the office clerks involved, corruption is so endemic in every level of society, it will never be eradicated not in our life time.

you could not find a bloody pencil in any state office that did not involve some one some where making money outside the normal process.

I take it that your comment is not "Thai" specific?

Edited December 10, 2016 by ratcatcher

[ableguy]

17 minutes ago, fruitman said:

 

So the government buys 3000 buses and has no idea where they are produced??? And you believe that?

 

Also they bought maintenance-contract with it, again they don't know wether the technicians are chinese or malays?? I don't believe that.

 

If you buy a new Toyota you also want to know where it's built right? In Thailand or in Japan, makes a big difference in price and quality. Same goes for New Balance shoes, made in the UK cost double price, go  have a look in your NB-shop if you don't believe me. Or have a look in the mall, they have tv's "made in japan" who cost double, same tv.

 

Why would we be happy with 300 mill baht, in the meantime the buses pollute the whole city with their huge black fumes. They should force the importer to deliver them in time. We need new buses, very urgent! Now it takes another year before they are here.

 

 

 

Roblock lives in a dream world.

[peergin]

On 12/9/2016 at 9:18 PM, Banana7 said:

I am happy to hear the Customs guys are doing their job. Well done!

 

If it was the previous government, the Customs guys may have been silenced. Thank goodness the Army is in control, and support government officials in doing their jobs properly.  

 

Customs have far, far too much power.

[BuckBee]

Any man or monkey know these are Chinese buses, part of the package discussion on technical details and repair parts supply prior to contract should of involved discussion and checking. It Thailand and deals are done on personal gain, someone at bmta got lubed nicely on this deal just not customs boys unfortunately, amateur mess for such a large contract and public government links. Main reason they had good security deposit setup is they new it was dodgy deal and happy to try as long as only the supply company loosing money, who cares about the buses at bmta when brown envelopes keep rolling in one after the other ...