Trump aides ask of Russian meddling: Does it matter?

[Redline]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a given there would be spying from Russians and many other nations. It's how that information was USED though that is truly disturbing. The Russians WEAPONIZED it to influence the U.S. election. We'll never know if it made the difference but keep in mind that the MARGINS were not very large in a number of important states, so it MIGHT have. 

Yes, all counties that have the capability hack and spy.  It is how information is used after gathering it.  In this case, it was manipulation.

[craigt3365]

46 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Certainly not trolling. But still see no actual proof - other than quotes that people are confident that it was Russia.

 

And one quote:

"Based on the evidence, it seems highly unlikely that actions by the Russian government contributed in any decisive way to Trump’s win over Clinton'" 

and another:

"Some computer scientists flagged anomalies in the results of several counties that used electronic voting in three swing states — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan — prompting calls for recounts. But claims that Russians are to blame for these vote tally anomalies, through hacking or other means, are baseless." 

 

Both from your second link.

 

The only ones seeming to have suffered are the DNC and Hilary - being exposed as willing to cheat and lie when necessary.

 

Seems that Obama has now joined in and he, Hilary and the DNC want to focus on the hacks and the bogeyman Russia and Putin rather than any mention of the hypocrisy, lies and cheating within their own party which is conveniently ignored.

 

Now if Trump tries to develop better relations with Russia, the Democrats have laid the foundations for attacking him based on this rather than the actual content and context of those future developments.

 

But no one seems to question the character of the Democrats - so presumably they think lying and cheating are O K - oh, but people should always believe them of course. Sorry, once a liar, always a liar.

 

There are 2 issues here.  One: who did the hacking.  Two: what was the intent, was it to have an impact on the elections.  Number one has been proven, and it was Russia. NO denying that.  The second one is being debated and investigated.  Your quote goes to the second issue, not the first one.

 

From my link.  Proof positive Russia did the hack.  I feel like a parrot repeating this all the time. LOL

 

Quote

The federal intelligence community, as well as private cybersecurity analysts, are confident that Russian actors were behind the hack.

 

This is not about Obama, Hillary, or Trump.  This is about a foreign nation hacking into another nation's computers.  At least for now...

[elgordo38]

Trump was elected by real news??. No it was by a group of desperate people sold a bill of goods. I am beginning to believe that you can fool most of the people most of the time. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by elgordo38

[PatOngo]

I would buy a used car from Julian Assange long before I rejected one from The Donald!

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

 

There are 2 issues here.  One: who did the hacking.  Two: what was the intent, was it to have an impact on the elections.  Number one has been proven, and it was Russia. NO denying that.  The second one is being debated and investigated.  Your quote goes to the second issue, not the first one.

 

From my link.  Proof positive Russia did the hack.  I feel like a parrot repeating this all the time. LOL

 

 

This is not about Obama, Hillary, or Trump.  This is about a foreign nation hacking into another nation's computers.  At least for now...

Perhaps, but it's also about Hillary Clinton and seeing how helping get trump elected helps Putin's anti-democratic agenda.

Quote

 

Russia’s Hacks Followed Years of Paranoia Toward Hillary Clinton

Russia’s unprecedented intervention in the United States election came amid more than United States-Russia tension and Donald J. Trump’s praise of Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian president. It also coincided with a growing belief, in Moscow, that Russia faced an imminent threat in Hillary Clinton’s candidacy.

Mrs. Clinton is viewed in Moscow as innately hostile to Russia. Widely held conspiracy theories portray her as seeking to foment unrest that will return Russia to the chaos and depression of the 1990s. Even many government technocrats view her with suspicion that at times verges on paranoia.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/world/europe/russia-hacks-putin-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

 

[craigt3365]

In my view, this is just my personal opinion.  Russia did this to have an impact on the elections.  It's hard to argue against that.  Good article, JT.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

6 hours ago, jaidam said:

Are you suggesting that Assange/wikileaks are fabricating documents with the purpose of discrediting the democrat party? Otherwise the inference is that the public do not have the right to know all the dirty shennanigans HRC and cohorts got up to, and should have voted with only the information that the msm wanted the electorate to have(unbelievably biased tosh)

 

Does the public not then have the right to know what is in Trump's tax returns?

 

Intellectually dishonest Brits lecturing us about the rights of American citizens. Or maybe just someone from a Russian troll factory.

[jaidam]

20 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Does the public not then have the right to know what is in Trump's tax returns?

 

Intellectually dishonest Brits lecturing us about the rights of American citizens. Or maybe just someone from a Russian troll factory.

 Had Trump been foolish enough to have his tax returns saved on Mr Anthony Weiners home computer on a file labelled "life insurance" no doubt we would be reading about them also. If that was the case would forumers still be moaning about how they came to lightblaming the nasty Russians, or would they be so delighted the tax returns were made public that the hows and whys they became public wouldnt matter? 

 

 It is unfortunate that by my embracing the recent electoral landslide and doubting the Russian hacking theories promoted by the establishment that I am labelled a fascist and have been the butt of several flames and personal attacks. 

 

[Nilats]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Perhaps, but it's also about Hillary Clinton and seeing how helping get trump elected helps Putin's anti-democratic agenda.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/world/europe/russia-hacks-putin-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

 

 Well the leak itself revealed how Un-Democratic the "Democratic" party actually was... In either case it doesn't aid the anti-democratic agenda because there was nothing Democratic about the US Democrats to begin with. The DNC was run as a dictatorship where the select few decided who the candidate would be.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

5 minutes ago, jaidam said:

 Had Trump been foolish enough to have his tax returns saved on Mr Anthony Weiners home computer on a file labelled "life insurance" no doubt we would be reading about them also. If that was the case would forumers still be moaning about how they came to lightblaming the nasty Russians, or would they be so delighted the tax returns were made public that the hows and whys they became public wouldnt matter? 

 

 It is unfortunate that by my embracing the recent electoral landslide and doubting the Russian hacking theories promoted by the establishment that I am labelled a fascist and have been the butt of several flames and personal attacks. 

 

 

Your fellow travelers on these Russian threads are urging us to focus on the content of the hacked emails and not the methods by which they were obtained. Now we are urged not to focus on the content but the method of access.

 

Such intellectual dishonesty most definitely is a magnet for attack. I do believe you are conflating the hostile responses for expressing your opinion with the understandable provocation of dishonest polemic. Your in-your-face style is bound to be returned in kind.

 

Who are you defending Trump or Putin?

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Even if it's true, they said, Trump still won the White House fair and square.

 

I tend to believe that although fair and square is a bit of a stretch.  The dirtiest election campaign in my lifetime for sure.  Did the Russians have a hand in it? I would say so but really it is more about the gullibility of the voters.  Putin clearly sees the election as a success for him as he now has a naïve man-child to push around! 

[Jingthing]

 
Does the public not then have the right to know what is in Trump's tax returns?
 
Intellectually dishonest Brits lecturing us about the rights of American citizens. Or maybe just someone from a Russian troll factory.

trump wasn't legally required but he bucked long standing custom.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, jaidam said:

 Had Trump been foolish enough to have his tax returns saved on Mr Anthony Weiners home computer on a file labelled "life insurance" no doubt we would be reading about them also. If that was the case would forumers still be moaning about how they came to lightblaming the nasty Russians, or would they be so delighted the tax returns were made public that the hows and whys they became public wouldnt matter? 

 

 It is unfortunate that by my embracing the recent electoral landslide and doubting the Russian hacking theories promoted by the establishment that I am labelled a fascist and have been the butt of several flames and personal attacks. 

 

No doubting the Russian hacking theories.  Ignoring them maybe, but not doubting.

 

Landslide victory?  Really? LOL

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/18/politics/electoral-college-donald-trump-monday/index.html

Quote

Heightening the tension in recent weeks: Clinton actually won the popular vote by about 3 million -- making Trump the worst-performing winner in the popular vote since 1876.

 

Embarrassing to put it mildly. 

[Langsuan Man]

Almost as bad as his most recent tweet regarding the loss of a US Navy Drone submersible when he said the Chinese should just keep it 

 

He is so clueless that he doesn't realize that anything controlled by the US Navy, especially an underwater drone, is going to be just full of top secret hardware and technology

 

So go ahead China, just keep it and reverse engineer everything that you find 

 

Just think, 31 days and he will have his finger on the button  

 

 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

52 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

trump wasn't legally required but he bucked long standing custom.

 

I agree but the poster used the phrase 'people's right to know' only in the context of the HRC Campaign activities. Intellectually honest debate would see the same standard applied to both sides.

 

I saw that the partisans were outraged by revelations from the leaked emails but I did not really find anything risible in them. Merely the day to day tawdriness of administering a government department and an election campaign.

[atyclb]

the content of the emails showing corruption and criminality is most valuable.  what if emails that incriminate people (s) as being involved in pedophilia are make public by way of russian hackers.

 

should the alleged pedophiles be let off the hook because russian hackers released the emails?

 

if incriminating emails from trup or his team were released by russian hackers i'd say thank you russia.

[craigt3365]

56 minutes ago, atyclb said:

the content of the emails showing corruption and criminality is most valuable.  what if emails that incriminate people (s) as being involved in pedophilia are make public by way of russian hackers.

 

should the alleged pedophiles be let off the hook because russian hackers released the emails?

 

if incriminating emails from trup or his team were released by russian hackers i'd say thank you russia.

And what about those who are innocent, private details made public.  Kinda like the women in Turkey.  Nobody wants to admit Wikileaks screwed up there.

 

One reason we have the law.  It's a slippery slope when you start choosing what laws to obey and which ones to ignore.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

the content of the emails showing corruption and criminality is most valuable.  what if emails that incriminate people (s) as being involved in pedophilia are make public by way of russian hackers.

 

should the alleged pedophiles be let off the hook because russian hackers released the emails?

 

if incriminating emails from trup or his team were released by russian hackers i'd say thank you russia.

Do you realise how easy it is to change the contents of a 'released email'? Do you realise how easy it is for a hacker to send an email from your email address to anyone he wishes? In that email he can load a trojan that once opened by the intended recipient can literally do anything, such as turn on your mobile phone mic, camera, access every keystroke made on your laptop/desktop/mobile? These allegations need a thorough investigation and should not be taken lightly. If I were American, i would stop worrying that people (including Sen Mcain ) are trying to say "Trump did not win fairly', and focus more on the fact that it is highly likely the Russians are in the US Government and Military systems, and it is THAT which people are concerned about. How a US Patriot can ignore the warnings of 17 separate US Intelligence agencies, beggars belief. Did Trump hypnotise everyone at his rally's? The only people that will ignore these warnings are US traitors.

[Silurian]

Here is a pretty good article on how certain websites are used to echo Russian propaganda including Infowars, WikiLeaks and Drudge Report.

 

Researchers Identify 200 Websites That ‘Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda’ to Millions of Americans

http://www.thewrap.com/russian-propaganda-us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-wikileaks-drudge-report-info-wars/

 

My favorite line: "A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences."

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

Here is a pretty good article on how certain websites are used to echo Russian propaganda including Infowars, WikiLeaks and Drudge Report.

 

Researchers Identify 200 Websites That ‘Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda’ to Millions of Americans

http://www.thewrap.com/russian-propaganda-us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-wikileaks-drudge-report-info-wars/

 

My favorite line: "A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences."

It's often pretty easy to spot them on media COMMENT sections.  I do wonder about their activities on FORUMS. I would think COMMENT sections are considered more potentially impactful. 

[Andaman Al]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's often pretty easy to spot them on media COMMENT sections.  I do wonder about their activities on FORUMS. I would think COMMENT sections are considered more potentially impactful. 

They seem to be very active around this Forum.

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

Here is a pretty good article on how certain websites are used to echo Russian propaganda including Infowars, WikiLeaks and Drudge Report.

 

Researchers Identify 200 Websites That ‘Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda’ to Millions of Americans

http://www.thewrap.com/russian-propaganda-us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-wikileaks-drudge-report-info-wars/

 

My favorite line: "A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences."

 

Wouldn't it be funny if that article was American propaganda....deployed from a small army of social media operatives — a mix of American-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — deployed to promote material just like this to unknowing audiences?

 

How we laughed!

Edited December 19, 2016 by onthesoi

[Andaman Al]

Not even knowing where to put this, but the Ante has just been raised as the Russian Ambassador to Turkey has just been shot dead at an art gallery in Ankara! OMG! Russia/Turkey/Syria etc etc do your own jig saw puzzle.

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, Silurian said:

Here is a pretty good article on how certain websites are used to echo Russian propaganda including Infowars, WikiLeaks and Drudge Report.

 

Researchers Identify 200 Websites That ‘Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda’ to Millions of Americans

http://www.thewrap.com/russian-propaganda-us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-wikileaks-drudge-report-info-wars/

 

My favorite line: "A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences."

 

Putin is indeed untrustworthy, but you don't prove that by using propaganda tactics. Many of those websites are sketchy, others just happen to disagree with the prevailing establishment view, which of course will change eventually, when it fails.

[Scott]

A post with references to unapproved sources has been removed.  Since quoting from them isn't allowed, as they are known fake news sources, there is no need to discuss what they say.  

[ScotBkk]

They seem to be very active around this Forum.

Yes totally agree
One's self-opinionated view that as far as some of these professional posters provide us with as the 'be and end of it all' and shouldn't be up for debate.

Kinda defeats the object of forums !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[bendejo]

19 hours ago, jaidam said:

Who to believe? Assange and Wikileaks, who with no political axe to grind, other than their interest in propagating the truth,  claim the Russians had nothing to do with the release of emails and other documents, or the butthurt DNC and their msm lapdogs, who are spitting the dummy after their preferred candidate crashed and burnt? Difficult one.

 

I would like to see Trump cozy up to the Russians more. Not just to rub the lefts nose in it, after the dems left the 2 superpowers on the brink of nuclear armageddon, but also for the sake of easy trade and world peace.

 

Yes, and the US should also cozy up to Iran and North Korea "for the sake of easy trade and world peace."  Also Islamic State, Al Nusra, and any other group hostile to the US. 

Ah, those American right-wing conservatives, what a bunch of peace-niks.  Are you the right-wing John Lennon?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by bendejo

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, Silurian said:

Here is a pretty good article on how certain websites are used to echo Russian propaganda including Infowars, WikiLeaks and Drudge Report.

 

Researchers Identify 200 Websites That ‘Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda’ to Millions of Americans

http://www.thewrap.com/russian-propaganda-us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-wikileaks-drudge-report-info-wars/

 

My favorite line: "A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences."

I see members post references to these sites all the time.  Pure click bait sites that attract those with anti West/US leanings.

 

Quote

The most recognizable names on the list of “sites that reliably echo Russian propaganda” include Alex Jones’ Infowars, Julian Assange’s Wikileaks and Matt Drudge’s Drudge Report. Others include The Federalist Papers, ZeroHedge, the Free Thought Project and USAPoliticsNow.

 

And some put so much faith into Wikileaks:

Quote

 

One such story, debunked by The Daily Beast, was a WikiLeaks claim about Hillary Clinton’s health in wake of being treated for pneumonia after looking ill at a Sept. 11 memorial event in New York. While the Daily Beast’s explanation of Clinton’s “decision fatigue” — a term WikiLeaks uncovered in a Clinton email and interpreted as an illness (it’s not) — reached 1,700 Facebook accounts and was read online more than 30,000 times, a version of the story spread by Russian propaganda reached 90,000 Facebook accounts and was read more than 8 million times.

 

“They want to essentially erode faith in the U.S. government or U.S. government interests,” Clint Watts, a researcher for the Foreign Policy Research Institute, told The Washington Post. “This was their standard mode during the Cold War. The problem is that this was hard to do before social media.”

 

 

[Silurian]

34 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

And some put so much faith into Wikileaks:

 

It is strange that Wikileaks claim they are not biased but I have yet to see ANY leaks from the Russian government. Must be those Russian harden servers circa 1970. Not one email...not one document...nothing related to the Russian government....why?

 

Too busy trying to disrupt the US government I guess.

[craigt3365]

Seems Europe may be the next target, and my have already had hacks.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/opinion/russian-meddling-and-europes-elections.html?emc=edit_ae_20161219&nl=todaysheadlines-asia&nlid=58582962

 

Quote

 

Russian Meddling and Europe’s Elections

 

While revelations about Russian involvement in the American presidential election rock the United States, there are ominous signs that Russia is spreading propaganda and engaging in cyberattacks in Europe in advance of several national elections next year.

........

In France, Marine Le Pen’s National Front party benefited in 2014 from an $11.7 million Kremlin loan to help finance its campaigns. And the winner of the center-right Les Républicains party’s recent primary elections, François Fillon, has called for lifting sanctions on Russia for its annexation of Crimea and its war in Ukraine, and for working with Russia to curb immigration and prevent terrorism.