Powering a pump

[farmerjo]

Hi,a quick question.

I have a Mitsubishi wcm 1505 2 horsepower(think 14 amp) water pump that i would like to set up about 100 metres from the house.

I have a box thingy wired up to the bore pump which when you turn the dial to 4 or so it gives enough power to start the bore pump.

Now can i utilize that by running cable from there to supply box,turn it on before starting pump.

Or is it no advantage and just tee into the main lines.

Thanks

 

 

 

[Strange]

33 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I have a box thingy wired up to the bore pump which when you turn the dial to 4 or so it gives enough power to start the bore pump.

 

I don't understand this part. Whats the dial do? Is the box thingy the thing you pictured with the knife switch, breaker, and plug? Cause I don't see a dial in there. 

 

Can you be more descriptive in what you are looking to achieve? Dont really understand what your after. 

[farmerjo]

Sorry will have another go,the silver box with the brown cover in the 1st picture has the dial,it was required to start the bore pump as my power supply is not the best.(will take a picture of the front with dial and guage tomorrow) 

I was thinking if i got the power from there it may be more consistent than from the main lines during operation of the pump.

The 2nd pic is what i will set up next to the pump and plug into.

Edited December 19, 2016 by farmerjo

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Sorry will have another go,the silver box in the 1st picture has the dial,it was required to start the bore pump as my power supply is not the best.(will take a picture of the front with dial and guage tomorrow) 

I was thinking if i got the power from there it may be more consistent than from the main lines during operation of the pump.

The 2nd pic is what i will set up next to the pump and plug into.

 

What kind of power supply do you have? Single Phase or 3 Phase? Some kind of generator unit supplying power? 

 

Just trying to wrap my head around the need for the dial thing & what it does.  Maybe Crossy or the other guys know why but its kind of a curveball for me. 

 

So basically you want to use the second pic plastic box thingy as like a glorified extension cable to run your 14 amp centrifugal pump from? And you want to know if it would be better to tap into the dial thingy or mains power?

[Strange]

This is your pump and the specs:

 

WCM 1505S

 

http://itec.co.th/imageupload/39140/Mitsubishi/WCM catalog_2.pdf

 

 

[farmerjo]

6 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

What kind of power supply do you have? Single Phase or 3 Phase? Some kind of generator unit supplying power? 

 

Just trying to wrap my head around the need for the dial thing & what it does.  Maybe Crossy or the other guys know why but its kind of a curveball for me. 

 

So basically you want to use the second pic plastic box thingy as like a glorified extension cable to run your 14 amp centrifugal pump from? And you want to know if it would be better to tap into the dial thingy or mains power?

Yes it's single phase but i run it 600 metres from the meter install to the house.

The pump will be 100 metres further on from the house and will run for about 6 hours at a time while other appliances are being used in the house.

Yes it's a glorified extension cable and  i would like to know which would perform better,thru the dial thingy or straight out of the mains.

Sorry,i'm a fitter not a sparky so my terminology is not good. 

 

[Strange]

9 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Yes it's single phase but i run it 600 metres from the meter install to the house.

The pump will be 100 metres further on from the house and will run for about 6 hours at a time while other appliances are being used in the house.

Yes it's a glorified extension cable and  i would like to know which would perform better,thru the dial thingy or straight out of the mains.

Sorry,i'm a fitter not a sparky so my terminology is not good. 

 

No worries. 

 

I think the end of the day, the wiring to your original bore pump dial thingy may be too small to piggy back another 14A pump off that circuit. I think its also very likely that the new 14A pump will probably pop the breaker for that circuit too. 

 

Do you know what size the wire is going from your house, to your bore pump dial thingy? What size breaker is the bore pump using? Do you know what the current bore pump amperage draw is?

[wayned]

F.J.  Can't wait until you tell him about your whatchamacallit!

 

Strange:  What if he hooks his whatcamacallit to his thingy and turns the doohickey, will that work?    Had to say it!!!

[wayned]

I think that the "thingy" with the knob on it is a variac that is used to increase the voltage to the pump to make up for line loos due to the 600 meter run from the meter.

[Crossy]

Yup Wayne, reckon it's a variac running as a step-up transformer. Some photos of it would be handy particularly any rating plate. The new pump will likely need something similar.

 

In reality FJ should fettle his entire power arrangements, 600m is a long run at 220V, what size wire was used there one wonders.

[wayned]

Don't egg him on before you know it he will have a generator hooked to the tractor that he uses for his irrigation pump, or better yet have welded the whatchamacallit to his newly acquired MK-80 tracked thingamajiggy and somehow hooked it to the PTO!

[Strange]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

F.J.  Can't wait until you tell him about your whatchamacallit!

 

Strange:  What if he hooks his whatcamacallit to his thingy and turns the doohickey, will that work?    Had to say it!!!

 

[Strange]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

In reality FJ should fettle his entire power arrangements, 600m is a long run at 220V, what size wire was used there one wonders.

 

In Surin province, after our first house was built, it had a really shitty single phase supply. We were the very last connection in a very long run. 

 

On a good day we had 240 volts to the house and could run everything we needed + 1 Airconditioner (Had 4 total) On a bad day we would get like 180 volts and the only things we could run would be things like the TV, Routers, Laptops, lightbulbs with filaments etc... 

 

The PEA wanted some astronomical money from several homeowners (750k in my case) to contribute to extending 3 phase power down through the moo baan. 

 

What ended up happening was, apparently the PEA can request money or funds from their head office (Korat in my case) to do this kind of thing at no cost to the user. Apparently anyone can do this. Basically petition the PEA to get stable power out to where you live. 

 

Dunno exactly how rural FJ is (sounds pretty darn rural) but it might be worth a shot. For us I believe it took about 9 months from start to finish. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Strange

[wayned]

It took me almost 10 years just to get PEA to install a three phase transformer so that they could properly distribute power in the village.  After they installed the transformer and ran the extra power lines it took almost six months to get them to come back out and connect the users to different phases.  Right now I have 217vac but as soon as the stone quarry down the road starts up it'll be down to around 200 and they're on their own transformer.  No money was discussed as the village chief was involved.

[farmerjo]

Thanks for the reply's

Upgrading the power has been on the cards for years but everytime it gets close to happening someone runs off with the money.

Here's a pic of the dooverlacky with the knob.

The cable that supplies it is 25 6 core and i would run the same to the juction box at the pump.

Please note,the supply is what it is so when this pump is running other high loads like the bore pump and shower heater would not be.I can work around that.

So the question, is it better to hook the pump up through the dooverlacky whatchmecallit and turn the doohickey or run it direct from the mains.  

[wayned]

Based on what you said above, I would run it from the thingy, that way you will be sure to get the power needed for the pump.

[wayned]

I would buy one of these from Lazada and plug it into the unused socket at your pump panel to monitor the voltage easily. http://www.lazada.co.th/ac-80-300v-us-plug-digital-voltmeter-lcd-panel-volt-voltage-testergauge-4739866.html

[farmerjo]

Thanks Wayned.

What sort of voltage range can motors take under load before you start to do damage?

Or will it trip on high amps(the breaker installed in the junction box is 20 amp)

[wayned]

I think that the wire you're referring to in post #15 is 25MM2, single core, 6 strand twisted aluminum which should be okay!

[Crossy]

The "thingy" is an 80A / 16kW variac. Will easily drive a 2HP pump :)

 

Actually, it would drive your whole house :)

[farmerjo]

5 minutes ago, wayned said:

I think that the wire you're referring to in post #15 is 25MM2, single core, 6 strand twisted aluminum which should be okay!

Yes that's it,from meter to house and would use the same to pump.

Sounds like it should work although not in ideal circumstances.

Off to golf so can see if there's anymore pro's and con's on here when i get home and if ok

will get the post hole digger out tomorrow and wack it on the pto and dig some holes for posts.

Then call the Sparky to do his thingimyjiggy.

Thanks Crossy.

 

[farmerjo]

23 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The "thingy" is an 80A / 16kW variac. Will easily drive a 2HP pump :)

 

Actually, it would drive your whole house :)

Wayned will laugh at this.

So later if i wanted to change this arrangement  from the mitsubishi pump to say a 7.5 or 5 horsepower single phase motor(not sure how big single phase motors go) driving a longtail 6 metre x 6 inch  pump pipe,would it work.And would i just keep changing pulley ratio's to get the motor up to maximum amps draw for maximum performance.

Edited December 20, 2016 by farmerjo
last sentence

[Crossy]

The limiting factor would be your available supply and how well it holds up under the starting load (from what you describe it won't).

 

We have a decent supply, but our 3HP irrigation pump makes the lights dim somewhat.

[farmerjo]

Thanks everyone,will put some poles up tomorrow. 

[Artisi]

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 2:27 AM, wayned said:

F.J.  Can't wait until you tell him about your whatchamacallit!

 

Strange:  What if he hooks his whatcamacallit to his thingy and turns the doohickey, will that work?    Had to say it!!!

Guess that is a possible maybe,  but then you might need the doolackly to activate the wigglewoggle in the gizmo.

[RichCor]

Might be time to grow a solar farm and plant some batteries