New immigration laws 2017 for people who live next to Thai border

[reggaebkk]

I live and work in Cambodia, next to the Thai border, and last week the Thai immigration told me that next year we can cross the border by road only twice. 

I have sent an email to the Thai immigration (see below), but about this I have 2 questions for the community: 

 

1/ Do you know the right people to contact and their email address? The contact form on the immigration website is not working and there is no obvious way to contact them. 

 

2/ What do you think about this case and if you know people who are connected to the immigration authorities could you engage conversations about this topic?

 

 

Here's what I wrote to them using email addresses I could gather on google (most of which returned errors): 

 

"Greetings from Cambodia, 

 

I would like to contact Immigration authorities in order to explain the problem that the new laws next year give me and a few foreigners who live in Cambodia and need to go to Thailand for short stays. 

 

I am French and I live in Cambodia, in Pailin, 15km from the Thai border (Ban Pakad, Chanthaburi). 

 

I have a work permit here and I need to go to Thailand by road in average once per month, for periods of stay from 1 to 3 days Max. I go to Chanthaburi to Post office (better than Cambodia), to the Bank to get money from overseas (because I used to live in Thailand over 10 years before, now 6 in Cambodia, I have bank account there), to buy things I need for me and for my job in the Chanthaburi market or in Makro... etc...

 

Now I am told that next year I can go to Thailand only 2 times by road and it is a big problem in my life and for a few other Expatriates here. 

 

Of course we can't make business visas because it is very expensive and also we should not need one, we don't go to work or make money in Thailand, only to spend, and we stay max 3 days per months or every 2 months. Also we live near the border so it's not easy to go to Phnom Penh and make visas each time. Same problem to go from here to Chanthaburi by plane, Chanthaburi is only 95Km from here. 

 

I was wondering if I could suggest Thai officials to make special rules for foreigners who have a work permit in Cambodia to have the possibility to go 3 days per month to Thailand by road. 

 

If you are interested in looking into this issue I am happy to provide you with copies of my Cambodia work permit and of my passport stamps to show you that I don't stay in Thailand more than 40 days per year, but need to go each month. 

 

It'd be great if there was some special rule for people in my case who can prove that we don't try to cheat the system to stay in Thailand, but we need to go buy things there and use post office and bank (that's where I get my money from France, that's where my clients send me the money). 

 

I hope this letter will help make better immigration rules for us who  are honest and legal residents in Asean and need to conduct normal and legal activities. 

 

Hoping to read you, 

Kind Regards, 
Françoise Dupont (That is not my real name, I changed it for public posting on Thaivisa.com)" 

 

 

To conclude, I guess they won't care about our particular cases, but it can't hurt to pass the subject around, by extreme luck it may fall in the ear of somebody who has a sense of equity and the means to do something about it. 

 

Merry Christmas and Happy new year to you all!! 

Edited December 26, 2016 by reggaebkk

[ubonjoe]

You would have to send a letter to the interior minister and/or  the prime minister about the ministerial regulation (it is not a law) they approved..

Translation of it is here: Visa Exempt Rules Dec 2016.pdf

Topic about it is here.

 

[reggaebkk]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to send a letter to the interior minister and/or  the prime minister about the ministerial regulation (it is not a law) they approved..

Translation of it is here: Visa Exempt Rules Dec 2016.pdf

Topic about it is here.

 

Thanks for your reply. Any idea on how to contact the right person/department in the interior ministry? I guess if I follow contact info on their website it's just going to be a loss of time as usual. 

[reggaebkk]

LOL, the Thai Interior Ministry website http://www.moi.go.th/  returns 

 

502 Bad Gateway

---

2.0.0

 

Good start...

 

[ubonjoe]

I just go on the site. Got to this one after clicking the button on a messages about the king. http://www.moi.go.th/portal/page?_pageid=814,1036627,814_1036653&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

You might try the ombudsman office about it.

I think when it all comes out as immigration procedures the new order will apply to those with an intention of doing a border hop for a new exempt entry.

If you read the note at the end of the order that is what it implies.

[yellowboat]

It is a shake down:  "Of course we can't make business visas because it is very expensive".   The Thai government wants more of your money.  What you just wrote reinforces their efforts.  They do not care about the Thai economy.  They just want more for themselves.  Many good people like will be adversely effected by this.  You have my sympathies.

Edited December 26, 2016 by yellowboat

[LivinLOS]

If you legally have a work permit and are resident in Cambodia, wont the Thai embassy issue you an METV each 6 months ?? 

[mstevens]

11 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

It is a shake down:  "Of course we can't make business visas because it is very expensive".   The Thai government wants more of your money.  What you just wrote reinforces their efforts.  They do not care about the Thai economy.  They just want more for themselves.  Many good people like will be adversely effected by this.  You have my sympathies.

 

Absolute rubbish.  It is nothing to do with money.  They are fed up with folks doing visa runs and this is just another measure they have introduced to make visa runs more different.  Sure, you could say they are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but this is not about money.

[yellowboat]

1 minute ago, mstevens said:

 

Absolute rubbish.  It is nothing to do with money.  They are fed up with folks doing visa runs and this is just another measure they have introduced to make visa runs more different.  Sure, you could say they are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but this is not about money.

Absolutely not.  They have already did all that as of two years ago.  They closed that all off.  You are quickly challenged if you have 4-6 stamps in your passport.  This man, if you bothered to read his dilemma, only wants to visit once a month for a few days.  There is a definite pay to stay mentality within the Thai government regarding those with visa exempt. But you know, you are right, you are better off going to Thailand as little as possible to avoid the Thai "sledgehammer" as you eloquently put it.  

[dbrenn]

7 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 

Absolute rubbish.  It is nothing to do with money.  They are fed up with folks doing visa runs and this is just another measure they have introduced to make visa runs more different.  Sure, you could say they are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but this is not about money.

Maybe so, but someone with money has various choices of visa, right up to Thailand Elite visas, that give them unfettered access to Thailand with no questions asked . ..

[yellowboat]

3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Maybe so, but someone with money has various choices of visa, right up to Thailand Elite visas, that give them unfettered access to Thailand with no questions asked . ..

The Elite Visa is evidence that entry into the country is about money.

[dbrenn]

2 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

The Elite Visa is evidence that entry into the country is about money.

'Rich guys in, poor guys out' does seem to be the general drift of all the recent rule changes 

[yellowboat]

2 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

'Rich guys in, poor guys out' does seem to be the general drift of all the recent rule changes 

Very well put.  Your eloquence is fitting to the situation, while I could not get "sledgehammer" in association with immigration out of my head. 

[reggaebkk]

The multiple entry tourist visa could be a temporary solution but there is a limit of how many you can get per year right? And it's also a bother we don't need... only to go shopping a couple of days per month... And the Embassy is 600km away, it's a week lost and unnecessary expenses. 

I wish I could find the right person to explain the case withing the Thai authorities because this is a life changing measure for no reason at all from our point of view here. They would just need to allow holders of an Asean work permit to enter Thailand as many times as they want as long as we stay under X number of days per year, like it was until now without having to show anything. They never bothered us as long as we stayed in Thailand less than 90 days per year... which was even too long... I think I stay 20 to 30 days in Thailand every year... and only to go shopping... what the heck!! 

Edited December 26, 2016 by reggaebkk

[dbrenn]

11 minutes ago, reggaebkk said:

The multiple entry tourist visa could be a temporary solution but there is a limit of how many you can get per year right? And it's also a bother we don't need... only to go shopping a couple of days per month... And the Embassy is 600km away, it's a week lost and unnecessary expenses. 

I wish I could find the right person to explain the case withing the Thai authorities because this is a life changing measure for no reason at all from our point of view here. They would just need to allow holders of an Asean work permit to enter Thailand as many times as they want as long as we stay under X number of days per year, like it was until now without having to show anything. They never bothered us as long as we stayed in Thailand less than 90 days per year... which was even too long... I think I stay 20 to 30 days in Thailand every year... and only to go shopping... what the heck!! 

I understand your frustration. Visa laws are annoying. Would you qualify for an APEC card? The intention of the APEC scheme is to facilitate frequent short business trips.

[reggaebkk]

Just now, dbrenn said:

I understand your frustration. Visa laws are annoying. Would you qualify for an APEC card? The intention of the APEC scheme is to facilitate frequent short business trips.

I have no clue of What an APEC card is and how to apply, but I will look into it. 

[gamini]

You could get a retirement Visa in Thailand and then a multiple  re-entry permit. That would solve your problem because you can travel back and forward as many times as you like

[reggaebkk]

1 minute ago, gamini said:

You could get a retirement Visa in Thailand and then a multiple  re-entry permit. That would solve your problem because you can travel back and forward as many times as you like

I'll probably do that when the age and finances allow it  

[dbrenn]

37 minutes ago, reggaebkk said:

I have no clue of What an APEC card is and how to apply, but I will look into it. 

Might not help for a resident of Cambodia

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEC_Business_Travel_Card

[reggaebkk]

40 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Might not help for a resident of Cambodia

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEC_Business_Travel_Card

I don't think they'd give it to a small potato like me anyway. 

[dbrenn]

4 minutes ago, reggaebkk said:

I don't think they'd give it to a small potato like me anyway. 

When I first came to Thailand, it was a great place for small potatoes. The interesting mix of people you used to meet here was one of the good things about living here. Rule changes over the past few years are driving most of them away.

[reggaebkk]

Just now, dbrenn said:

When I first came to Thailand, it was a great place for small potatoes. The interesting mix of people you used to meet here was one of the good things about living here. Rule changes over the past few years are driving most of them away.

I understand if they are trying to protect themselves from people who would come to Thailand and work illegally or make dodgy business. They do a better job than most European nations to protect their people. Also they may have decided to remove the cheap long stay tourists who live on 5000 baht per month and who, in their mind, bring the image of the country down for the upscale tourism they want. It is their choice, their country after all. But in my situation, far from everything except Chanthaburi, I really feel trapped in the cross fire and it's very frustrating. If they have Asean, then they have to recognise the legality of work permit holders in other Asean countries and not handicap us. My competitors are also buying products in Thailand and this ends up being unfair practice... "no, the Farang has the right to work here but can't get supplies like his counterparts". 

[BuckBee]

they shooting themselves in foot really as this will hit huge amount of weekend shopping/leisure trippers via border.

I expect those using airport will get some ballache at immi counters too .

so many ways implement entry requirements better than this 2 a year rule, even simply adding evisa option for setv or a new concept 7 day-tv would of been thoughtful/intelligent :-/

problem is they don't see the real tourist/leisure trippers and blinded by jealousy of few smart asses making easy stays and easy basic income (small incomes from what I seen & they blow the cash here anyway)

All the big player criminal organizations carry on as normal, if serious on illegal workers proper crackdown on schools and teacher permit issuing revisions would make real difference. Bulk of illegal workers are Myanmar Lao Khmer cheap labour, western boiler rooms and even teaching has reduced massively already .

Best fix is expansion of retail/leisure services in Cambodia, has a lot of potential for those willing try it .

Thailand getting worse politically, legally, financially ...

Edited December 26, 2016 by BuckBee

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, reggaebkk said:

I understand if they are trying to protect themselves from people who would come to Thailand and work illegally or make dodgy business. They do a better job than most European nations to protect their people. Also they may have decided to remove the cheap long stay tourists who live on 5000 baht per month and who, in their mind, bring the image of the country down for the upscale tourism they want. It is their choice, their country after all. But in my situation, far from everything except Chanthaburi, I really feel trapped in the cross fire and it's very frustrating. If they have Asean, then they have to recognise the legality of work permit holders in other Asean countries and not handicap us. My competitors are also buying products in Thailand and this ends up being unfair practice... "no, the Farang has the right to work here but can't get supplies like his counterparts". 

Sorry, but you can hardly blame the Thais for your supply issues.

[Lamkyong]

long stay tourists who live on 5000 baht per month     ???i have a small band of people that fall into the friend category   also long stay  i am sure non of them come into your   5k a month  statement   where do you meet these people ??  

[steve187]

ok the answer as i see it is 

a - build a makro next door to the op

b - build an exception into the new regulation for the op and his like

c - prevent his competitors from being allowed to shop in Thailand

d - move the border making the nearest Thai post office inside Cambodia

e - Learn to live with it or work on a work around

 

another point i can see is how do immigration know the op is not working whilst in Thailand, and if he/she is  buying supplies for the business then maybe the op is in fact working

 

just my thoughts on the subject

[reggaebkk]

18 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

long stay tourists who live on 5000 baht per month     ???i have a small band of people that fall into the friend category   also long stay  i am sure non of them come into your   5k a month  statement   where do you meet these people ??  

10 years ago after I failed my business and before I could sell what was left of it, I had to stay on that budget for nearly 2 years. It's possible... you grow skinny I can tell you. 
And before that I had ever seen people in that situation, with many years overstay. Back then it was pretty easy to pay your way out every few years when a check came along. Thanks God, whatever He might be, that I could collect myself up from these times. 

[reggaebkk]

23 minutes ago, steve187 said:

ok the answer as i see it is 

a - build a makro next door to the op

b - build an exception into the new regulation for the op and his like

c - prevent his competitors from being allowed to shop in Thailand

d - move the border making the nearest Thai post office inside Cambodia

e - Learn to live with it or work on a work around

 

another point i can see is how do immigration know the op is not working whilst in Thailand, and if he/she is  buying supplies for the business then maybe the op is in fact working

 

just my thoughts on the subject

LOL

... what's the op?

[reggaebkk]

50 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sorry, but you can hardly blame the Thais for your supply issues.

No... and Yes...
They are making ASEAN or not? They open borders on the paper but close them in reality. Once you are legally conducting business in an open border Economic Community, if you prevent some people from having the same business opportunities as others, it becomes discrimination.... which is actually a main trait of Thailand's attitude when dealing with foreigner businessmen anyway. 

 

[Briggsy]

8 minutes ago, reggaebkk said:

No... and Yes...
They are making ASEAN or not? They open borders on the paper but close them in reality. Once you are legally conducting business in an open border Economic Community, if you prevent some people from having the same business opportunities as others, it becomes discrimination.... which is actually a main trait of Thailand's attitude when dealing with foreigner businessmen anyway. 

 

Please tell me where ASEAN has "open borders on paper" or where ASEAN has a stated goal of being an "open border Economic Community". You have simply taken the EU and incorrectly applied it to ASEAN, a very different beast. There are no open borders in ASEAN.

 

By obtaining tourist visas for Thailand, you can resolve this issue. Alternatively you could talk to Thai immigration in Pong Nam Ron who may decide not to enforce the rule in your case.