Obama expels 35 Russian diplomats, accuses Russia of meddling in election

[dunroaming]

Pretty much the standard response from the USA with Russia retaliating with the same.  It happened on Obama's watch so it is correct that he responds.  No doubt everything will be reversed when Putin's puppet takes over. 

[daveAustin]

Nope. He's playing this one clever by the looks:

Putin rules out tit-for-tat expulsion of diplomats

BBC

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by daveAustin

[copa8]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

The FBI and CIA, along with many other intelligence agencies and private companies, agree Russia hacked the systems.  What they don't agree on is why.  Was it to influence the elections or not.  The FBI needs to prove this in a court of law, the CIA doesn't have to. 

 

China is definitely a threat and has hacked into many computer servers in the US.  Time to fight back.

 

Get the feeling that had it been China that hacked the system meddling with election, everyone here on TVF would've agreed with Obama expelling diplomats, sanctions, etc. But, since it's Russia, it's a different story. Odd.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Not sure if "fight back" is the appropriate term, given ongoing US hacking efforts.  I am not, however, advocating a unilateral stand-down, either.  Whether expelling diplomats is the appropriate response, or just a hollow face-saving effort - ongoing in a series of excuses to try to discredit/explain the last election - is another question. 

 

Trump was the first presidential candidate since the 80s to say, "We will bring back jobs" instead of the bi-partisan mantra of "Your jobs are gone, 'forgetaboutem'."  I believe his twin policies on immigration and trade - reversing the anti-American, bi-partisan-consensus policies in place - which are the core-reasons for increasing US-poverty - were the reason he won.

Trump has made many promises that he is now backtracking on. Time will tell. 

[Andaman Al]

11 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

No sanctuary cities back then. Blame the left.

I believe your love for Trump transcends your love of Nation. When I have fought alongside my American brothers at arms in war, their loyalty was always crystal clear 'God, Country, Corps". Politicians were at the bottom of their list.  How heartbreaking that the people they fight to defend do not share the values they fight for. I do not blame the left, I blame people like you for adopting Trumps stance against our number 1 adversary, you want to love them. Well Trump is only loving them because he is going to make a truck load of money from the Russians. What's your excuse. I still cannot believe you said "Lucky for the Russians, Washington is a sanctuary City" - Wow! Just Wow!  Lucky for everyone else there is no Sanctuary - wouldn't you agree???

 

 

8 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Pretty much what the Wall Street Journal reported a few weeks ago. I don't know if there have been new revolations since.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-national-committee-security-foiled-russian-hackers-1481850043

 

Yup the same paper loyal to the very influential Wall Street Wolves that have just been placed in Trumps Cabinet.

[Opl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democrats-hacking-dccc.html?mtrref=rue89.nouvelobs.com&gwh=717FD2A8B78FA59EB2A821644FBCF74B&gwt=pay

 

 

[Andaman Al]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I haven't adopted anything. As per usual, you are making things up to have something to argue against. Red Herring MUCH!

 

Ulysses, you quote such a small part of my post. I guess once again you just put your head in the sand and ignore the rest. So just for you I will TAKE OUT the little bit you have quoted above and leave the rest of the post to you.

 

 

12 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

No sanctuary cities back then. Blame the left.

I believe your love for Trump transcends your love of Nation. When I have fought alongside my American brothers at arms in war, their loyalty was always crystal clear 'God, Country, Corps". Politicians were at the bottom of their list.  How heartbreaking that the people they fight to defend do not share the values they fight for. I do not blame the left, I blame people like you for adopting Trumps stance against our number 1 adversary, you want to love them. Well Trump is only loving them because he is going to make a truck load of money from the Russians. What's your excuse. I still cannot believe you said "Lucky for the Russians, Washington is a sanctuary City" - Wow! Just Wow!  Lucky for everyone else there is no Sanctuary - wouldn't you agree???

 

 

9 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Pretty much what the Wall Street Journal reported a few weeks ago. I don't know if there have been new revolations since.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-national-committee-security-foiled-russian-hackers-1481850043

 

Yup the same paper loyal to the very influential Wall Street Wolves that have just been placed in Trumps Cabinet.

[Andaman Al]

32 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I quoted a blatant untruth. You make up things and attribute them to other posters constantly. This is not the first time that I have had to point it out.

Ridiculous. What is untrue about it? I am telling you who I blame  tell me how that can be untrue? Furthermore you have shown throughout this forum that you support Trump's lovefest towards Russia.

 

I assume from the statement by you above logic would suggest that you did not quote the rest of my post because that IS the truth as far as you see it?

Edited December 30, 2016 by Andaman Al

[Nasrullah]

16 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I guess you believe everything you read. Why would the NSA hack Google? The NSA already has "front-door" access to Google and Yahoo user accounts through a court-approved programme known as Prism.

 

Get over it!!!

You're a lemming

[Basil B]

17 hours ago, soalbundy said:

next week, Russia expels 35 American diplomats

 

No...

 

Putin say's no "Tit for Tat"

 

I assume he does not want to embarrass his pet poodle who will be moving to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave  in 3 weeks time. 

 

So I assume the 35 will be back on the 21st Jan.

[hawker9000]

Finally, some transparency out of this guy.  Heaven knows Obama needs somebody to point the finger at for the dismal election results, and as addicted as he is to the habit he can't really blame Bush, so no surprise here at all that he takes a time out from "I could've won a third term" head trips to descend on the Russians.  It's actually par for the course for a machine politician like him, since Russia already has so much to answer for and doesn't really have anybody in its corner, making them an easy target for the boy statesman.   'Seems like all the Russians are really supposed to have done was hack into private email content the unwashed masses weren't supposed to know about. Wouldn't that actually fall under the heading of "transparency", Barry?   Gee, the NSA's been doing that to taxpayers all the livelong day for quite awhile now, and Obama's had no problem with that.  China's been credibly accused of cyber-spying, and Obama didn't do much about that either.  Well here's a newsflash:  Americans have been getting their PII hacked into for years (including everyone who's ever submitted a security clearance application to the feds FPS!!!).  And the resultant identity theft has to be one of the biggest uninvestigated/uncharged crimes in the U.S., not to mention biggest headaches for private citizens: it's not even news.   But now that Dem elites' OWN oxen have been gored, this is suddenly a big deal and we're supposed to be outraged over it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

19 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

No...

 

Putin say's no "Tit for Tat"

 

I assume he does not want to embarrass his pet poodle who will be moving to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave  in 3 weeks time.

 

So I assume the 35 will be back on the 21st Ja

 

How would it embarrass anyone but Obama? It is all happening on his watch. Silly theory.

[iReason]

1 hour ago, KenKadz said:

Neither Obama or the U.S. Intelligence Community have been able to prove their accusations.

 

And you know this how?

You sat in on the meetings? 

 

No. Of course not.

You are just making things up...

[iReason]

Donald Trump Adviser Says U.S. Should ‘Make The Russians Feel Pain’ For Meddling In Election

 

"Donald Trump adviser John Bolton is demanding harsher sanctions on Russia, a position in stark contrast to many of his fellow Republicans ― including the president-elect."

 

“We really need to get past the politics of this because if even a piece of what is alleged about this Russian activity is true, it is utterly unacceptable,” Bolton said. “It is an attack on our constitutional system.”

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-advisor-says-us-should-make-the-russians-feel-pain-for-meddling-with-election_us_58666495e4b0de3a08f7fb2b

Edited December 31, 2016 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Finally, some transparency out of this guy.  Heaven knows Obama needs somebody to point the finger at for the dismal election results, and as addicted as he is to the habit he can't really blame Bush, so no surprise here at all that he takes a time out from "I could've won a third term" head trips to descend on the Russians.  It's actually par for the course for a machine politician like him, since Russia already has so much to answer for and doesn't really have anybody in its corner, making them an easy target for the boy statesman.   'Seems like all the Russians are really supposed to have done was hack into private email content the unwashed masses weren't supposed to know about. Wouldn't that actually fall under the heading of "transparency", Barry?   Gee, the NSA's been doing that to taxpayers all the livelong day for quite awhile now, and Obama's had no problem with that.  China's been credibly accused of cyber-spying, and Obama didn't do much about that either.  Well here's a newsflash:  Americans have been getting their PII hacked into for years (including everyone who's ever submitted a security clearance application to the feds FPS!!!).  And the resultant identity theft has to be one of the biggest uninvestigated/uncharged crimes in the U.S., not to mention biggest headaches for private citizens: it's not even news.   But now that Dem elites' OWN oxen have been gored, this is suddenly a big deal and we're supposed to be outraged over it?

 

It's not about Obama.  It's about national security.  And the hacking goes way beyond this one instance.  Do some research.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2014/08/russian-hackers-suspected-us-bank-attack-201482721433945699.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/opinion/russian-meddling-and-europes-elections.html?emc=edit_ae_20161219&nl=todaysheadlines-asia&nlid=58582962

 

Actually, China has had sanctions for hacking.  Again, do some research.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b8de69f0-501d-11e5-8642-453585f2cfcd

 

It's not just about this one instance.  It's sending a message there will be consequences for this type of activity.  Which is great!

[Briggsy]

Trump is completely owned by Russia.

 

Assets in Russia, Lines of debt, Sexual blackmail, Business ties. Who knows?

 

But there is no vision, no strategy laid out of what Trump sees as Russia's place in the world, Russia's suppression of freedom, Russia's massive corruption at all levels of government, Russia's very blurred line between government and global organised crime, Russia's relationship with NATO.

 

There is only a policy vacuum, a silence, meaningless statements such as "we should get on with our lives".

 

Tell that to the journalists and politicians executed by state death squads, opposition politicians imprisoned for years, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and so on.

 

Putin will take this inaction as a great opportunity to advance his dream of the return of the Soviet realm of influence.

[Jingthing]

Something's rotten in trump Tower and it will soon be spreading to the white house, at least part time.

 

This quote sounds like something from a dementia patient. With all due compassion to elders suffering from dementia, they should not be eligible for the presidency.

 

Quote

 

Trump refuses to face reality about Russia

...

Earlier in the week, he asserted that the “whole age of computer has made it where nobody knows exactly what is going on.”

...

No, Mr. Trump, it is not time to move on. U.S. intelligence agencies are in agreement about “what is going on”: a brazen and unprecedented attempt by a hostile power to covertly sway the outcome of a U.S. presidential election through the theft and release of material damaging to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. The president-elect’s dismissive response only deepens unanswered questions about his ties to Russia in the past and his plans for cooperation with Vladi­mir Putin.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-refuses-to-face-reality-about-russia/2016/12/30/5a69d692-ceb7-11e6-a747-d03044780a02_story.html

Edited December 31, 2016 by Jingthing

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. Please stay on this topic which is about Russia accused of meddling in the US election. 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[Briggsy]

Having Trump in the White House is a huge advance for Putin in his NGW (New Generation Warfare) philosophy which underlies his rule.

 

Trump simply must be sidelined, undermined or removed. His subordination to or alliance with (it's opaque) the Kremlin will greatly damage America and the West.

[rabas]

5 hours ago, iReason said:

Donald Trump Adviser Says U.S. Should ‘Make The Russians Feel Pain’ For Meddling In Election

 

"Donald Trump adviser John Bolton is demanding harsher sanctions on Russia, a position in stark contrast to many of his fellow Republicans ― including the president-elect."

 

“We really need to get past the politics of this because if even a piece of what is alleged about this Russian activity is true, it is utterly unacceptable,” Bolton said. “It is an attack on our constitutional system.”

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-advisor-says-us-should-make-the-russians-feel-pain-for-meddling-with-election_us_58666495e4b0de3a08f7fb2b

 

The great pendulum of mankind's struggle for truth and freedom has begun it's return journey. The Huffington Post has quoted John Bolton in a favourable manner.

 

For those who think Putin is moving into the White House,

you'll find Putin cowering behind the sofa when John Bolton enters the room.

Edited December 31, 2016 by rabas

[thehelmsman]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 4:59 PM, Jeffrey346 said:

This is about hacking. Not about Hillary or the election results..  Obama did the right thing and hopefully Trump will support the Obama's actions....

How about we figure out how not to let it happen in the future. How about that. Who was at the helm when this happened??? And, he didn't stop it.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

How about we figure out how not to let it happen in the future. How about that. Who was at the helm when this happened??? And, he didn't stop it.

Obama knew about it quite some time ago, but decided not to go public as it could be construed as him trying to influence the election.  Which in the end, it did.  At least he's acting now!  Unlike Trump who's blaming it on a 400 pound person on a couch.  LOL  Great leader.

[craigt3365]

P.S. this could be what Trump is nervous about:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/can-the-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-instead-trump-how-2016-11

Quote

 

Even if electors turn faithless, members of Congress can formally protest elector votes, and have them thrown out, when they officially count the ballots in a joint session on January 6.

 

"One of my legal colleagues suggests that the joint session is the 'break glass in case of emergency' — it's the last line of defense against an election that may have been corrupted in some way," Neale said.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

11 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

How would it embarrass anyone but Obama? It is all happening on his watch. Silly theory.

Funny how you consider Obama should be 'embarrassed' by what is happening on 'his watch', when you do not consider it both disgusting and disgraceful what happened on Bush's watch.

 

Meanwhile in related news Trump has asked his security advisers to interview and confiscate computers of all males living in New Jersey weighing over 400 pounds.  

 

Seriously, do you Americans not see the national security crisis that is not only unfolding before your eyes, it is being stuffed up your nose. Yet you STILL make excuses for Trump. The Russians are laughing their heads off. I went out for dinner last night with an amazing guy, a retired Captain from Soviet Typhoon Class Subs (He is now Latvian). After we spoke for ages about how I used to try and find him and how he used to evade us, we got on to the subject of Trump.  He was laughing so hard he nearly choked. He said that for the Russians all their Christmases have come early. He says Putin is going to run rings around the USA and said that the Russian intelligence agencies will have more dirt on Trump than you can imagine.

 

Just got to pop out for an hour to stock up on popcorn.

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, iReason said:

Donald Trump Adviser Says U.S. Should ‘Make The Russians Feel Pain’ For Meddling In Election

 

"Donald Trump adviser John Bolton is demanding harsher sanctions on Russia, a position in stark contrast to many of his fellow Republicans ― including the president-elect."

 

“We really need to get past the politics of this because if even a piece of what is alleged about this Russian activity is true, it is utterly unacceptable,” Bolton said. “It is an attack on our constitutional system.”

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-advisor-says-us-should-make-the-russians-feel-pain-for-meddling-with-election_us_58666495e4b0de3a08f7fb2b

 

Nothing like biting the hand that feeds...

 

Trump owes Putin big time. 

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

 

It's not about Obama.  It's about national security.  And the hacking goes way beyond this one instance.  Do some research.

 

 

Finally. Someone summed it up  perfectly.  Russia under Putin  the former KGB  Lt. Col. is still at war and never stood down.

[Andaman Al]

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Finally. Someone summed it up  perfectly.  Russia under Putin  the former KGB  Lt. Col. is still at war and never stood down.

Perfect! Someone who is American actually understands! Just 318 00 000 to go.

[Scott]

5 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Perfect! Someone who is American actually understands! Just 318 00 000 to go.

Close, but I believe the person you are referring to isn't American.   He just has a very good handle on American and international politics.  

[hawker9000]

12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Finally. Someone summed it up  perfectly.  Russia under Putin  the former KGB  Lt. Col. is still at war and never stood down.

...And the Commander-in-Chief for the last eight years has done nothing but draw pretty red lines.