Motorcycles on Pedestrian Walkways

[Banana7]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

All true.  Once upon a time Miss X set up some tables and chairs on the public sidewalk and nobody called her on it.   Mr. Y next door noticed there was no punishment so he set up his laundry drying racks on the sidewalk, too.  Mr. Z then decided he would go one step further and he put some chairs in the street to block anyone from parking.  Nobody said boo.  And, so on and so on and here we are today.  Same for driving motorcycles on the sidewalk and the wrong way, double parking, etc. etc.  Really, the only thing that works is money fines and stiff penalties for unpaid fines.  And, not small fines--it needs to sting.  And, the only other thing that works is permanent, everyday enforcement. No more of these one or two day crackdowns.  The regular police don't want to do the work so a separate, permanent crew is needed. Sort of the old meter maids but with expanded duties.  Sometimes dangerous work dealing with the irate people they will be ticketing so let them keep a nice percentage of what they collect.  None of this is brain surgery--and, unfortunately, none of this will happen because the will just isn't there yet.

You are right. Parking is not really an important aspect of Police work. Police have far more important and dangerous crimes to solve.

 

Many cities have Parking Enforcement Officers, that have the authority to ticket, and tow vehicles. Why not in Pattaya?

 

[newnative]

50 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

One reason maybe because the sidewalks/pedestrian walkways are cluttered with low hanging electric cables, parked motorcycles, parked food carts, merchant display stands, telephone booths, telephone poles, broken pavement, and are not flat because of missing bricks, cement or stones, and all sorts of other obstacles. Basically the pedestrian walkways are too small and many are unfit for walking, the vehicle roadway is 10 times  better for walking.

 

True. And, as I said before, parts of Pattaya Second Road have no sidewalks so you literally have to walk in the road--and most of the rest are bad.  Major overhaul needed for such an important road.

[Banana7]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

True. And, as I said before, parts of Pattaya Second Road have no sidewalks so you literally have to walk in the road--and most of the rest are bad.  Major overhaul needed for such an important road.

Pedestrian walkways, and the road surface on Third Road east side between Pattaya Klang and Pattaya Nua is  a wreck. The water main replacement people have wrecked the roads and sidewalks and leave them in a state of disrepair for months. Even when they repair them, the repair rarely returns the walkways to a decent condition for walking.

 

[fordguy61mi]

I notice motorbikes on the sidewalk in Bangkok when the traffic is at gridlock(most of the time). I don't see how they could catch the guys with the traffic at a standstill like that unless they themselves took to the sidewalk after them. 

[Banana7]

59 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

I notice motorbikes on the sidewalk in Bangkok when the traffic is at gridlock(most of the time). I don't see how they could catch the guys with the traffic at a standstill like that unless they themselves took to the sidewalk after them. 

There are thousands of traffic cams in Bangkok and a hundred in Pattaya. The authorities could easily see the location of the sidewalk motorcyclists one day. Then next day hide behind something in the same location, waiting to pounce on the culprits. Don't even have to hide, could be in plain clothes and have the badge ready. First step is to just grab the keys out of the ignition or stick something into a wheel to prevent it from turning. Could also order the guy to stop, if the driver doesn't stop, take a photo of the license plate with a smart phone and  record into computer system for follow-up. Locate the owner later and charge with 2 or more offenses. Very very easy. Lots of money in fines!

 

Once stopped, they could do a computer check on the driver, the bike and the passenger, to see if there are any warrants or "wanted for questioning". Could also do a search of the vehicle for contraband, weapons, illegal drugs etc., verify road tax and driver's license, safety check vehicle too- bald tires lights working etc.. Maybe more money in fines, or immediate arrest, confiscate bike for being a danger to public safety. Teach the driver a lesson, driving on the walkway may take longer and cost lots of extra money.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Banana7

[wreckingcountry]

The arrogance of motorbikes on sidewalks would be deemed impolite and dangerous in most countries, but in Bangkok Thailand ? Nah . Par for the course


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[smotherb]

8 hours ago, newnative said:

All true.  Once upon a time Miss X set up some tables and chairs on the public sidewalk and nobody called her on it.   Mr. Y next door noticed there was no punishment so he set up his laundry drying racks on the sidewalk, too.  Mr. Z then decided he would go one step further and he put some chairs in the street to block anyone from parking.  Nobody said boo.  And, so on and so on and here we are today.  Same for driving motorcycles on the sidewalk and the wrong way, double parking, etc. etc.  Really, the only thing that works is money fines and stiff penalties for unpaid fines.  And, not small fines--it needs to sting.  And, the only other thing that works is permanent, everyday enforcement. No more of these one or two day crackdowns.  The regular police don't want to do the work so a separate, permanent crew is needed. Sort of the old meter maids but with expanded duties.  Sometimes dangerous work dealing with the irate people they will be ticketing so let them keep a nice percentage of what they collect.  None of this is brain surgery--and, unfortunately, none of this will happen because the will just isn't there yet.

Give the cops 20% of the taking from the fines

 

[gemguy]

Most often there is enforcement of the law if the police think they can make some money out of it...and worth their while.

Other than that ....the word "lazy" often comes to mind in cases such as this concerning small and seemingly unimportant matters ....until... the higher ups tell the lower downs that the public ( maybe the Mayor also ) are whinging and whining and crying about this matter so go out and make a big deal about it and look like you are working on important crime solving matters and ...don't forget to bring home some Bacon...lol

Cheers 

Edited January 9, 2017 by gemguy

[wpcoe]

4 hours ago, fordguy61mi said:

I notice motorbikes on the sidewalk in Bangkok when the traffic is at gridlock(most of the time). I don't see how they could catch the guys with the traffic at a standstill like that unless they themselves took to the sidewalk after them. 

 

4 hours ago, Banana7 said:

There are thousands of traffic cams in Bangkok and a hundred in Pattaya.

 

...and why not simply issue tickets based on the photographs?

 

Oh, wait.  That would probably only work in the west where there actually is enforcement and pursuit of offenders.  I know a Thai who has received speeding tickets in the mail from the speed cams on the highways, and he just ignores them.  Guess what?  He can proceed as if he was never photographed -- even renew his drivers license -- with no recourse.

[onemorechang]

7 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

 

...and why not simply issue tickets based on the photographs?

 

Oh, wait.  That would probably only work in the west where there actually is enforcement and pursuit of offenders.  I know a Thai who has received speeding tickets in the mail from the speed cams on the highways, and he just ignores them.  Guess what?  He can proceed as if he was never photographed -- even renew his drivers license -- with no recourse.

 

I was told they catch up with you,  when you go to Tax your vehicle

how long this hole process takes ,   who knows

 

i don't know if this is all true or not,   anyone ? 

[roo860]

 
I was told they catch up with you,  when you go to Tax your vehicle
how long this hole process takes ,   who knows
 
i don't know if this is all true or not,   anyone ? 

Yes happened to me 10yrs ago. Unpaid fine no tax renewal. I was told now there is a time limit, and after that it doubles(the fine).?

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[onemorechang]

10 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

 

Yes happened to me 10yrs ago. Unpaid fine no tax renewal. I was told now there is a time limit, and after that it doubles(the fine).?

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Thanks 

[gemguy]

8 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

 

...and why not simply issue tickets based on the photographs?

 

Oh, wait.  That would probably only work in the west where there actually is enforcement and pursuit of offenders.  I know a Thai who has received speeding tickets in the mail from the speed cams on the highways, and he just ignores them.  Guess what?  He can proceed as if he was never photographed -- even renew his drivers license -- with no recourse.

Well there you go...your post reveals a very large part of the problems here in Thailand by way of the populace at large ( the Thai citizens ) themselves are considered somewhat unruly and come with a law breaking , do as I please attitude. 

Of course this exists everywhere in the world and every nation while laws and the enforcement of those laws certainly do help to establish peace and order to a degree but the most important factor to the success of peace and order is the cooperation of the mass of people...which overall is witnessed here in Thailand but less than other countries, in comparison...say like Singapore as a basic example of a very orderly society if all the more people conform to all the laws while the laws are strictly enforced.

I know Singapore is much different in many respects as compared to Thailand and certainly its size and population and many other factors influence the success of Singapore but still the people there conform to the laws while law enforcement is diligently exercised on a far more consistent basis than here in Thailand...but in the end less so when or after all the citizens fall in line and simply cooperate in unison.  

So how much "unruliness" can be or should be tolerated in any nation because if ALL the laws were to be strictly enforced then the end result is you would have all the more people being arrested and prosecuted to the letter of the laws and all the more people incarcerated in prisons if you really did harshly enforce the laws and without any leniency or mercy... while enforcing those laws in the same or traditional manners applied throughout the world concerning Law and order while incarcerating so many people for breaking the laws resulting in significant percentages of the population held in prisons as the means of penalising the many, many law breakers.

The prison population would increase 10 fold if the laws were strictly enforced upon every citizen....so there is a whole lot of give and take in motion while the question is: Where should the law enforcement resources be applied????..... more so and relative to all the many laws that are being broken and relative to the existing laws that supposedly all need to be enforced.

For example in the USA and Canada the drug related laws are continually ignored and flaunted by the "Unruly" populace, so to speak while the problems are huge and widespread while here in Thailand not nearly as large a problem....but, the traffic violations here in Thailand are far more widespread and problematic of course and caused by the sheer numbers of "Unruly" citizens, so to speak concerning that particular social disorder.

On the other hand if the laws are not enforced the end result is more or less what you witness happening more so here in Thailand than in many of the countries that you or I originate from....possibly, as law breaking in its many forms exists in every country of course while some laws are broken more so in one country as compared to another having a varity of social disorders caused from all the law breaking  

Here you see widespread infractions of all kinds of laws and far more widespread as a larger percent of the populace simply emulate or do what others are doing also and ignore the laws and or flaunt the laws and while seeming they are not worried at all about any retributions for breaking the laws.

Point being ...it certainly helps a whole lot  and a very important aspect of law and order if the people themselves would be more lawful and orderly than they are at present because the law enforcement officials certainly do have their hands full while trying to enforce the laws on a otherwise unruly population at large that more or less do as they please in many aspects relative to what the existing laws consider lawful or unlawful.

Cheers

[morrobay]

Any comparisons like above have to be "apples to apples" Ie comparisons with Vietnam, Phillapenes and Central America. BTW there was a letter to a paper yesterday re vans and Vietnam. 

[JSixpack]

Our DSI: TVF has investigated the issue thoroughly now and issued the usual obvious recommendations that the Thais don't need and of course to which they will pay absolutely no attention.

 

Motorbikes on the sidewalk is a long-standing tradition that Thais are quite used to and basically accept as understandable. They could stop the practice easily if they really wanted to, but they don't particularly want to. Any biker might have the "need" to use the sidewalk on occasion; I know I do. :) Higher-ups make decisions often for show--to please the TVF peanut gallery, if you like ;)-- that they may never have been serious about enforcing in the first place. Or if they thought they were serious at the moment, they weren't really; or lower levels will ignore them as long as possible esp if not really needed or accepted.

 

So, as usual, the answer is, "motorbikes are on the sidewalk 'cause they are." You'll need to suck it up with all the other mysteries unless you just enjoy worrying.

Edited January 10, 2017 by JSixpack

[johng]

I thought it was legal for motorcycles to use the  pavement/sidewalk  if the road was blocked by other traffic ??

 

20 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Many cities have Parking Enforcement Officers, that have the authority to ticket, and tow vehicles. Why not in Pattaya?

 

Pattaya has the "tetsakit"  local council enforcement officers  that regularly  harass the  sidecar/push cart vendors  round up ladyboys, "palm tree ghosts" and drug pushers, pretty sure they do ticketing and wheel clamping too.

[champers]

4 hours ago, morrobay said:

Any comparisons like above have to be "apples to apples" Ie comparisons with Vietnam, Phillapenes and Central America. BTW there was a letter to a paper yesterday re vans and Vietnam. 

I saw that letter too. Obviously French and USA colonial influence at play. Two bloody wars and hundreds of thousands of deaths later they at least have good driving standards to show for it. Oh, and their bread is nice.

[LammyTS1]

Driving on pavements/walkways is legal if the road is blocked by cars, buses, trucks, lorrys, pick ups, baht buses, vans etc etc.

If anyone is not happy with this then maybe question the high use of 4 wheel vehicles in cities that are not set up to cope!

 

[Banana7]

6 hours ago, LammyTS1 said:

Driving on pavements/walkways is legal if the road is blocked by cars, buses, trucks, lorrys, pick ups, baht buses, vans etc etc.

If anyone is not happy with this then maybe question the high use of 4 wheel vehicles in cities that are not set up to cope!

 

That's ridiculous. Wait in line like everyone else. Where do you get that riding on the sidewalk is legal? Look at at post id 24 in this thread - there are no exceptions.

[fruitman]

On 9-1-2017 at 1:57 PM, DavetheGreek said:

Three weeks ago I was hit from behind on the walkway in Silom by a motorcycle taxi and broke both kneecaps. The driver then reversed over a women cutting her face badly and drove off. Did I report it to the police sitting 20 metres away? No point!

 

A motocy taxi with a reverse gear on his bike??? That's new for me.

 

In BKK i saw the signs of 5000 baht for riding on sidewalk....right behind it were 3 motocy's parked and one just drove off.....

 

Why can't they get the police to work?

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, fruitman said:

In BKK i saw the signs of 5000 baht for riding on sidewalk....right behind it were 3 motocy's parked and one just drove off.....

 

Why can't they get the police to work?

 

Answered here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/962430-motorcycles-on-pedestrian-walkways/?page=2#comment-11506105

 

I remember the days of needing to carry computer equipment from Panthip to the Ratchathewi BTS station. Taking a motorcy taxi on the walkway all the way was SO convenient, Petchaburi Rd. being one-way the wrong way.

[anotheruser]

On 1/9/2017 at 1:57 PM, DavetheGreek said:

Three weeks ago I was hit from behind on the walkway in Silom by a motorcycle taxi and broke both kneecaps. The driver then reversed over a women cutting her face badly and drove off. Did I report it to the police sitting 20 metres away? No point!

 

So you broke both kneecaps and a cop was 20 meters away? So what did you do simply walk to the hospital? Make yourself splints and pull yourself up? Sorry not buying your story you would have been screaming in agony if you had broke both your kneecaps. 

[Casanova666]

After they are ticketed where does the ticket letter get sent to -- the owner before the owner before ?

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[jtrump]

I pulled onto the sidewalk to park one day around Sukhumvit 12.  As I was getting off the bike and looked over, the police were threading a chain through the wheels of the motorcycles.  I looked at them, nodded and look for another spot.  They left tickets on the bike telling them to go the the station.  Kinda strange I would think they would be there waiting when they returned to collect the money personally.  I was luck that I wasn't 5 minutes earlier.

[LammyTS1]

That's ridiculous. Wait in line like everyone else. Where do you get that riding on the sidewalk is legal? Look at at post id 24 in this thread - there are no exceptions.

Wait in line? Yeh and inhale all the toxic fumes emanating from cars/buses/lorries/pick ups? Ridiculous.
Anyone that wishes to drive a car through that gridlock should get their heads examined.


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[TonyClifton]

I walk the sidewalks in a place where the motorcycles seem to ride with impunity.  I DO NOT give them access. If there is a small path where the sidewalk is clear, I use it all as much as possible.  I make them wait for me to get out of the way.  Alternatively, I also don't let the cars push me off the crosswalks.

 

If I see someone trying to beat me across, I make sure they stop and then I slow to a crawl just so I can stare them down.  

 

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

I walk the sidewalks in a place where the motorcycles seem to ride with impunity.  I DO NOT give them access. If there is a small path where the sidewalk is clear, I use it all as much as possible.  I make them wait for me to get out of the way.  Alternatively, I also don't let the cars push me off the crosswalks.

 

If I see someone trying to beat me across, I make sure they stop and then I slow to a crawl just so I can stare them down.  

 

 

Do you like confrontation? Your strategy could very well lead you into one. I wouldn't fancy your chances of coming out of one unscathed. Good luck to you.

[TonyClifton]

2 hours ago, champers said:

Do you like confrontation? Your strategy could very well lead you into one. I wouldn't fancy your chances of coming out of one unscathed. Good luck to you.

 

 

I like to stand my ground.  I am not a sheep or a sheeple.  A sheeple will leap out of the way in order to not inconvenience the motorcycle rider.  A sheeple will baa baa as they stand in muck so the motorcycle can pass.  

 

I am not a sheeple.

 

I am sure, that somewhere in Thai Law, it is codified that the pedestrian has the right of way in crosswalks, and on sidewalks.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by TonyClifton

[roo860]

 
I like to stand my ground.  I am not a sheep or a sheeple.  A sheeple will leap out of the way in order to not inconvenience the motorcycle rider.  A sheeple will baa baa as they stand in muck so the motorcycle can pass.  
 
I am not a sheeple.
 
I am sure, that somewhere in Thai Law, it is codified that the pedestrian has the right of way in crosswalks, and on sidewalks.
 
 

Fair comment, not so good when you are in ICU.

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[TonyClifton]

1 hour ago, roo860 said:

 

 

Fair comment, not so good when you are in ICU.

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Why are you all so afraid of Thai people?  I am not.  The biggest A-hole behind the wheel is usually the smallest in person.  Tough behind the wheel, but let them step out of the car or motorbike.  

 

Horsepower does equate to intimidation if one won't stand for it.