If you are a Brit you cannot hide - scary !!

[Eff1n2ret]

11 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Actually if i am not mistaken , it was brought in by Maggie Thatcher ,when the only pensioners who lived abroad were very well off ones ,unlike todays ,who cant afford to live in the UK

The Judgement refers to the Social Security Administration Act 1992, so it would have been John Major. It also mentions that there was an amendment to a Pensions Bill in 1995 requiring payment of increases to all expat pensioners which was defeated by "large majorities" in both Houses of Parliament. And of course the case was fought tooth and nail by the Blair government,  all the way from the High Court to Strasbourg. Perhaps a little unfair to blame Mrs T. for this one.

[NoshowJones]

On 1/9/2017 at 7:19 PM, alfieconn said:

 

Ok so they will get a court order to look at them then 

Only if they think there is some jigery pokery going on, it costs them time and money to get a court order.

[Baerboxer]

On 1/11/2017 at 10:25 PM, elliss said:

 

      Spot on ,  

I  have  this  mounth ,  been requested  by Nationwide ,

           to provide evidence of my UK , residential address .

        If evidence is not presented , your account is closed ,  I know . 

 

      It pays to be on the electoral register and pay community tax .

      The  belt is tightening , Big  brother is  watching us .

 

             

 

I am on the UK electoral register, with my Thai address. You can renew that by phone and ballot papers are sent here. HMRC know I have been and am still non resident. I have a rented out UK property and declare the income on that and on my UK bank accounts only when completing my UK tax return. 

 

You have to follow the rules. Are you resident or non resident? They have a newish criteria now. I know someone who makes sure she is in the UK for enough time each year to keep her NHS entitlement up. She rents one property out and keeps another for when she's in the UK. That's her choice but means she's resident in the UK for tax purposes. 

If you have a property that is always available for your use, and you pay community tax then you won't be non resident - or you'll have a hard time convincing them. If it's rented out, you rarely if ever visit the UK, don't do any work there, have no dependents there then they will acknowledge your non resident status. 

 

Some UK banks, building societies etc don't want the hassle of having customers who might or might not be non resident. They want to make their own life easier and avoid any money laundering or tax avoidance issues and the extra administration.

 

Others simply request confirmation of your non resident tax statue. 

 

Remember that if you are classed as UK resident then you must declare world wide income which includes all bank interest wherever paid.

 

 

[thai3]

1 hour ago, Savilesghost said:

As the old maxium goes.. ".ignorance is no excuse " 

 

They can change the law and would if they had any sense of justice, they would in a week if it were their pensions of course

[alfieconn]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Only if they think there is some jigery pokery going on, it costs them time and money to get a court order.

 

I would have thought that that is pretty obvious, why would they get a court order if they think your finances are all above board 

[Eff1n2ret]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I am on the UK electoral register, with my Thai address. You can renew that by phone and ballot papers are sent here. .

 

 

Do you  get the ballot papers in sufficient time?  I've found the only practical way to vote from Thailand is to have a proxy.

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

 

I would have thought that that is pretty obvious, why would they get a court order if they think your finances are all above board 

They would need to have a good reason to think your finances are not above board, if they want to take the time and expense of applying for a court order.

[i claudius]

They would need to have a good reason to think your finances are not above board, if they want to take the time and expense of applying for a court order.

Even when up on fraud chArges they don't check, or so I am told

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[yardrunner]

On 1/13/2017 at 9:01 AM, KarenBravo said:

 

Yes, exactly the same for me with Barclays.

I am with Santander UK and have been resident in Thailand since 2012 and Santander know that i am resident in Thailand and up to now no problems

[CharlieK]

On 1/15/2017 at 8:31 PM, i claudius said:

I can't see a problem for some pensioner who spent most of his life in the UK ,was born there and paid tax and NI all his life,just returning home ,they wouldn't leave some 70 year old on the street,

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk
 

want to bet on that? There is no law that says councils must rehouse returning expats who don't have somewhere to live in the UK. 

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

Actually if i am not mistaken , it was brought in by Maggie Thatcher ,when the only pensioners who lived abroad were very well off ones ,unlike todays ,who cant afford to live in the UK

The 1st pension increase in 1946 was not paid to pensioners abroad

The National Insurance Act 1946 contained a disqualification of benefits payments absent of UK

[i claudius]

want to bet on that? There is no law that says councils must rehouse returning expats who don't have somewhere to live in the UK. 

Your right but old Percy just has to clutch his chest,and off to hospital ,then what eject him onto the street? Play them at their own game

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[F4UCorsair]

Only 'scary' if you'te avoiding your legal obligations, or dipping into the public purse when you shouldn't.

 

I have no sympathy for any of those who choose to violate the law.

 

For every dollar you receive, or avoid paying, the government has taken a dollar from another person. Is that fair or reasonable?

[JB300]

 
And you misunderstand what a reciprocal tax agreement actually is then, 
Under the agreement in force Thailand is not a signatory to this agreement with the UK, this agreement will allow automatic data sharing between signatory countries, ie names, address' and account details and balances of said accounts
 
Eg
If British national who is resident in the UK for tax purposes has a undeclared account in say Singapore, Blighty tax man is going to know about, in a similar manner Singapore national holding undeclared account in the UK, Singapore tax man will know about it, whether they decide to investigate the account is up to them 
 
This has nothing to do with reciprocal tax agreements, all a reciprocal tax agreement does is stop you paying full tax on the same money 
 
Eg  Teacher works in Thailand and is resident for tax in the UK, said teacher pays 20% tax in thailand on his money, on his UK tax return he can offset this 20% tax paid under the reciprocal agreement after providing proof, however if in the eyes of the tax under UK tax, the same amount would meant you had to pay 30% tax to HMRC, they are within theirs rights to ask for the 10% different - this is a very simple example and would very rarely be implemented
 
But from what i understand under Aussie tax rules this scenario is in play quite a lot with aussies who work overseas but maintain residency in Aus

I'm no expert but I don't believe the UK can claim the difference in tax paid in another DTA country with Tax that would have been paid if the monies had been earned in the UK.

To give an example, when I transferred from the UK to Singapore (who BTW don't tax any overseas income of their residents) my salary was "Tax Equalised" (dropped by approx 25%) there is no way my company could/would have done this if there was a possibility of me then being effectively Taxed at UK rates (Double whammy, exactly what DTAs are in place to avoid).

Another example, I know guys who have moved from lower Taxed countries to the UK & so we're "Taxed Equalised" upwards, by that logic they would have been able to claim a refund from the UK as they'd have paid more Tax than they would have in their own country.

[JB300]

Not quite. Some income earned outside Thailand is not subject to tax unless it is repatriated to Thailand. I've not heard of an retiree having to pay Thai income tax just because their pension is remitted to Thailand and that's usually because as chiang mai says there are double tax treaties in place that ensure that the same income isn't subject to tax twice. If you're under the UK tax threshold and therefore paid no tax on your UK pension you won't be paying tax in Thailand either. However there are some forms of "income" that may not be taxable where they are earned and not taxable in Thailand either, either because it's eg. a capital gain or  you never repatriated the funds to Thaiand and declared them as income
 
https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

Not quite, you always pay tax on your UK pension it's just that if you're below the PTA threshold then you pay tax at a Nil rate but it's still considered as having had Tax paid on it.

I'm not being pedantic, it's just there's a difference between not having paid Tax on income & having paid tax at a Nil rate on income when looking at whether the income has been Taxed or not.

[jacko45k]

On 09/01/2017 at 6:42 PM, chiang mai said:

For anyone who is concerned about this issue, the bigger worry perhaps is that your UK bank is reporting overseas transfers you have made to Thailand.

Is that a concern? Or are they reporting it to the Thai authorities? (Which I thought the receiving Thai banks would do.)

 

I believe the money transferred or deposited into UK banks is of more concern to UK tax authorities.

The money the taxi-driver brings in cash to the airport , or to a transfer agent, so that it gets to say Pakistan, is what they are after.

 

[chiang mai]

23 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Is that a concern? Or are they reporting it to the Thai authorities? (Which I thought the receiving Thai banks would do.)

 

I believe the money transferred or deposited into UK banks is of more concern to UK tax authorities.

The money the taxi-driver brings in cash to the airport , or to a transfer agent, so that it gets to say Pakistan, is what they are after.

 

To be more clear: the bigger concern is that UK banks will be reporting to the UK Revenue, all transfers made to then from Thailand to individual accounts. So, when you sell your house/condo in Thailand, the one you didn't declare to the Revenue, how to get the cash home again!

[JB300]

To be more clear: the bigger concern is that UK banks will be reporting to the UK Revenue, all transfers made to then from Thailand to individual accounts. So, when you sell your house/condo in Thailand, the one you didn't declare to the Revenue, how to get the cash home again!

I'm not sure when/how you would declare Non-UK property to HMRC (Hold my hands up, my accountant has done my tax returns since I had my old UK LTD company) but I do know you don't declare any overseas (from UK) income, capital gains etc... If you're living in a DTA country and are registered as Non-UK resident for tax purposes.

I've certainly never been asked for any details about any of my overseas income/assets, yet they ask for details of the pennies I earn in interest from my UK bank account.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JB300 said:

I'm not sure when/how you would declare Non-UK property to HMRC (Hold my hands up, my accountant has done my tax returns since I had my old UK LTD company) but I do know you don't declare any overseas (from UK) income, capital gains etc... If you're living in a DTA country and are registered as Non-UK resident for tax purposes.

I've certainly never been asked for any details about any of my overseas income/assets, yet they ask for details of the pennies I earn in interest from my UK bank account.

 

If registered as non-UK resident for tax purposes, this is not an issue of course. But if not, and most are not, simply because they want to retain their State Pension increases and access to the NHS, it can be a problem.

 

Overseas property is classified as holiday homes I believe and of course all income has to be declared, for UK tax resident folks.

 

 

[sanukjim]

On 1/9/2017 at 2:48 PM, thai3 said:

UK and overseas bank accounts: From this year it receives information from banks in more than 60 countries.

 

I wonder if that includes Thailand? 

Yes Thailand has agreed to do this.Americans have been on the same type of list here in Thailand .I have a Bkk bank account from 18 years ago listed in Pattaya.I have a retirement extension to stay but without a work permit I can not get another account with another bank or transfer my account to where I live now. The Thais do not want to bother with the reporting of accounts to the home country. If you are a Brit try to get an account before the banks cut you off also.

Edited January 18, 2017 by sanukjim
spelling

[Oxx]

23 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

Yes Thailand has agreed to do this.

 

I believe you're wrong.  Happy to be corrected, though, if you have some proof of your assertion.

[Jeffrey346]

16 hours ago, Savilesghost said:

As stated previously, Thailand is not signatory to this agreement with the UK, and will not send mass data of British citizens holding Thai accounts at this point in time 

 

what a Thai bank does with a US citizen and the IRS is irrelevant to this topic and you will start confusing people 

 

 

It's information only and doubt it confused anyone. If you're not smart enough to understand that, then you're not smart enough to have a bank account

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

To be more clear: the bigger concern is that UK banks will be reporting to the UK Revenue, all transfers made to then from Thailand to individual accounts. So, when you sell your house/condo in Thailand, the one you didn't declare to the Revenue, how to get the cash home again!

I doubt that will ever happen to me, I live here, I spend nearly all my money here (in Thailand) and will in all probability, and providing local authorities remain welcoming, die here. As to those British who live in Thailand and yet pretend to be living in the UK to claim their heating allowance or other benefits, I do hope they are caught as they cheat the system.

 

[thai3]

14 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The 1st pension increase in 1946 was not paid to pensioners abroad

The National Insurance Act 1946 contained a disqualification of benefits payments absent of UK

 

Yet increases are paid in some countries and the law can be changed so that all are treated fairly and the same. Local authority pensions are increased no matter where you live, why should the state one not be?

Edited January 18, 2017 by thai3

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, sanukjim said:

Yes Thailand has agreed to do this.Americans have been on the same type of list here in Thailand .I have a Bkk bank account from 18 years ago listed in Pattaya.I have a retirement extension to stay but without a work permit I can not get another account with another bank or transfer my account to where I live now. The Thais do not want to bother with the reporting of accounts to the home country. If you are a Brit try to get an account before the banks cut you off also.

 

I believe that Thailand has agreed to do that as far as US citizens are concerned hence FACTA. But at this stage there is no reporting to the UK, as far as I am aware.

[alfieconn]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

If registered as non-UK resident for tax purposes, this is not an issue of course. But if not, and most are not, simply because they want to retain their State Pension increases and access to the NHS, it can be a problem.

 

Overseas property is classified as holiday homes I believe and of course all income has to be declared, for UK tax resident folks.

 

 

 

Is that just guesswork or do you have any fact's ?

Edited January 18, 2017 by alfieconn

[i claudius]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I doubt that will ever happen to me, I live here, I spend nearly all my money here (in Thailand) and will in all probability, and providing local authorities remain welcoming, die here. As to those British who live in Thailand and yet pretend to be living in the UK to claim their heating allowance or other benefits, I do hope they are caught as they cheat the system.

 

 

The dream of a man who is not doing it .

i say good luck to them ,they paid in ,they deserve it best of luck to them , i would never report them .

Edited January 18, 2017 by i claudius

[al007]

Fortunately for many here if I worked for HMRC I would introduce legislation that those who do not declare their true addresses, and claim the increases when not entitled ; would loose ALL future pensions, unless they returned to the UK

 

Remember also your UK pension is not taxed in Thailand, in the UK it is aggregated with other income and taxed

 

In Australia the pension is means tested and very quickly you get nothing

 

HMRC is targeting wealthy tax payers because this is cost effective, we all know targeting this benefit fraud would also to cost effective

 

Thailand is exceedingly tax friendly to retirees, but some are not satisfied with this they want more

 

I am very substantially better off tax wise here than at home

[evadgib]

23 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

The dream of a man who is not doing it .

i say good luck to them ,they paid in ,they deserve it best of luck to them , i would never report them .

 

HMG should never have placed them in the position in the first place. 

[evadgib]

20 minutes ago, al007 said:

Fortunately for many here if I worked for HMRC I would introduce legislation that those who do not declare their true addresses, and claim the increases when not entitled ; would loose ALL future pensions, unless they returned to the UK

 

Remember also your UK pension is not taxed in Thailand, in the UK it is aggregated with other income and taxed

 

In Australia the pension is means tested and very quickly you get nothing

 

HMRC is targeting wealthy tax payers because this is cost effective, we all know targeting this benefit fraud would also to cost effective

 

Thailand is exceedingly tax friendly to retirees, but some are not satisfied with this they want more

 

I am very substantially better off tax wise here than at home

 

There's an entire thread devoted to this... 

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by evadgib