TM30...again

[BangkokTony]

I went to Chang Wattana this week with a little trepidation.  I have been following posts about TM28 and TM30.  I had read about the requirements for those who were travelling and the responsibilities of the owner.  I had also gone on holiday in Thailand staying in a hotel. 

I went to UK in October and returned the same month.  The 90 days window was approaching so I went to CW to do a 90 day report.  No problem. They were processing at the rate of one person per minute. I was 55th in the queue and on completion told to come back at Songkran.

However I will in future fill in the necessary forms (just in case the situation changes)

Edited January 13, 2017 by BangkokTony
text

[worgeordie]

You were lucky ,up here in Chiang Mai,they are raking in the money,

no one seems to be spared and the fine is 1600 THB, so would advise

you to get your TM30 done,as next time they could ask you for it.

regards Worgeordie

[Deepinthailand]

Luck of the draw it seems no such problems in Khon Kaen as told only need to submit a tm 30 again if we move along with TM28. Even after leaving Thailand and returning

[siam2007]

13 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Luck of the draw it seems no such problems in Khon Kaen as told only need to submit a tm 30 again if we move along with TM28. Even after leaving Thailand and returning

 

 

does anybody know if the same applies to Jomtien immigration ?

[tgeezer]

So for clarification :
It appears that in 'some' Immigration Offices, a visitor reporting on a TM6 (port of entry card)is required to duplicate that report on a TM 30 (householder' report) in the case of renting, being the spouse of the owner or owning a condo etc. ?
Also in the same circumstances, after 90 days a visitor must report using a TM 47(90 day report )and TM 30 forms.






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[Lovethailandelite]

44 minutes ago, siam2007 said:

 

 

does anybody know if the same applies to Jomtien immigration ?

Jomtien require the TM30 and not only the one time. Here is my report of how it works there which I posted for info for those who haven't yet lodged a TM30 there. I hope it helps you.

 

The problem is that the TM30 needs to be done. Someone MUST do it or it is us that pay the fines....As I found out. I have been in and out of the country since the early 1980's and owning property here too. In September I decided to come and stay. I went to Jomtien immigration as I thought I may just as well get it sorted due to the reports being stated. First question from immigration after looking at my passport 'Why you come to Thailand so many times and no TM30'? I tried to explain that I had only just heard of the requirement, although secretly I knew the law existed but nobody ever bothered. There answer was that everybody coming in to Thailand needs to know the immigration laws. They then pulled up a computer screen going back 5 years showing me every single entry in and out of the country I had made.Now whether this information comes from your passport or a TM6 entry I don't know. To go back 5 years in my case either the previous passports are linked or indeed they are entering information on the system from the TM6 as this passport I have now is only 2 years old. She asked wear I had been staying on these entry's? I said sometimes my Condo but sometimes in hotels if I am travelling around. She showed me the last time I was reported which was 3 years ago by a hotel in Hua Hin and since that time I had 15 entry's and exits.Now during this 3 year period only, I must of stayed in at least 8 or 10 hotels incl Novotel, The Landmark, The Pattaya Hilton, Fraser suites Bangkok and others but not one of them had reported me. To cut the storey short, the fine was 4000bht. I did object by saying surely the hotels need to report me but her answer was yes but you need to make sure it's done if not you pay the fine. I said I find that unfair and her answer was would I like her to go back further than 5 years and increase the fine? I said, no, it's ok 4000bht seems reasonable 
I received an official receipt and also a Glossy leaflet printed as being from the Royal Thai Police Immigration Division 3 which explains the rule.....but it's all in Thai but I can make out some horrendous figures from 200bht to 1 millionbht but no doubt the leaflet contains other information and the penalties involved. If the forum wants to see it I think I can scan it. I asked what I need to do to avoid a future fine and was told that on EVERY entry to the country a TM30 must again be logged even if returning to my own Condo because I would have a different TM6 when and if doing a 90 day report and they would see that was different from a previous entry and anyway she seemed to indicate that any dealings with Immigration and they look at your entry and exit history so would see if the TM30 was logged or not. I have never ever done a 90 day report as I travel in and out a fair bit anyway but I may need to do one in the future. She also said if I leave Chon Buri province for anymore than 24hrs again, the TM30 needs to be logged on my return as where ever I stay needs to log me in. Great! I don't do the hastle of a 90 day report because of travelling but I can do a TM 30 report instead. I asked could it be done online she said yes BUT if it's lost in the system I get a fine. I since asked the Condo management to set up a reporting system which they have done.( I was led to believe that private individuals cannot do it) I went out of the country 4 weeks ago for 7 days and on my return they reported me and printed me a receipt for the report. In that case a hotel can do the same for people to see that they have actually reported you. To make sure it worked as it should, I then went to Jomtien immigration within 24hrs of my return to check if the system actually worked. It did and I never had to fill the form in again. They then gave a me another receipt to say it had been received ( Which the reporting system used by hotels and Condo management cannot do) and said to keep it with the TM6 and passport.
When you enter immigration to report a TM30 don't waste time at the reception desk. Go straight in and past the desks and seats where everyone is waiting. Turn right and go upstairs and the office dealing with the TM30 inquiry's is directly in front of you. Just walk straight on in.
On a side note I have heard of people getting bigger fines up to 5000bht there. A guy from Singapore in the same Condo block as me shelled out 12000bht for him, his wife and daughter. I have no idea of the daughters age but she looks over 15 so have no idea how old children need to be to have this rule applied to them. I hope this post go's some way to let people understand how Jomtien are applying this rule. I have a friend in Ubon who's immigration office are applying the rule exactly the same but I see other immigration offices apply it different.If the mods want to move the post to a more appropriate thread great but please don't delete it as it's taken me an hour to compile it 
Once again I hope this helps anybody dealing with Jomtien immigration.

 

[ubonjoe]

58 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Also in the same circumstances, after 90 days a visitor must report using a TM 47(90 day report )and TM 30 forms.

The TM30 form should not be needed unless you have moved when you do a 90 day report.

A TM30 form should only be needed once unless you move. There are few offices that want a new one if you leave and reenter the country.

[tgeezer]

Are you keeping your 'handle' lovethailandite?!
You were stitched up, but that is acceptable on an individual basis if you can afford it I suppose.




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Would you mind posting the. 'glossy' she gave you in the Language forum? Probably better in Thai than English, even the official translation of the act has invented an English word "housemaster" !

[siam2007]

48 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Jomtien require the TM30 and not only the one time. Here is my report of how it works there which I posted for info for those who haven't yet lodged a TM30 there. I hope it helps you.

 

The problem is that the TM30 needs to be done. Someone MUST do it or it is us that pay the fines....As I found out. I have been in and out of the country since the early 1980's and owning property here too. In September I decided to come and stay. I went to Jomtien immigration as I thought I may just as well get it sorted due to the reports being stated. First question from immigration after looking at my passport 'Why you come to Thailand so many times and no TM30'? I tried to explain that I had only just heard of the requirement, although secretly I knew the law existed but nobody ever bothered. There answer was that everybody coming in to Thailand needs to know the immigration laws. They then pulled up a computer screen going back 5 years showing me every single entry in and out of the country I had made.Now whether this information comes from your passport or a TM6 entry I don't know. To go back 5 years in my case either the previous passports are linked or indeed they are entering information on the system from the TM6 as this passport I have now is only 2 years old. She asked wear I had been staying on these entry's? I said sometimes my Condo but sometimes in hotels if I am travelling around. She showed me the last time I was reported which was 3 years ago by a hotel in Hua Hin and since that time I had 15 entry's and exits.Now during this 3 year period only, I must of stayed in at least 8 or 10 hotels incl Novotel, The Landmark, The Pattaya Hilton, Fraser suites Bangkok and others but not one of them had reported me. To cut the storey short, the fine was 4000bht. I did object by saying surely the hotels need to report me but her answer was yes but you need to make sure it's done if not you pay the fine. I said I find that unfair and her answer was would I like her to go back further than 5 years and increase the fine? I said, no, it's ok 4000bht seems reasonable 
I received an official receipt and also a Glossy leaflet printed as being from the Royal Thai Police Immigration Division 3 which explains the rule.....but it's all in Thai but I can make out some horrendous figures from 200bht to 1 millionbht but no doubt the leaflet contains other information and the penalties involved. If the forum wants to see it I think I can scan it. I asked what I need to do to avoid a future fine and was told that on EVERY entry to the country a TM30 must again be logged even if returning to my own Condo because I would have a different TM6 when and if doing a 90 day report and they would see that was different from a previous entry and anyway she seemed to indicate that any dealings with Immigration and they look at your entry and exit history so would see if the TM30 was logged or not. I have never ever done a 90 day report as I travel in and out a fair bit anyway but I may need to do one in the future. She also said if I leave Chon Buri province for anymore than 24hrs again, the TM30 needs to be logged on my return as where ever I stay needs to log me in. Great! I don't do the hastle of a 90 day report because of travelling but I can do a TM 30 report instead. I asked could it be done online she said yes BUT if it's lost in the system I get a fine. I since asked the Condo management to set up a reporting system which they have done.( I was led to believe that private individuals cannot do it) I went out of the country 4 weeks ago for 7 days and on my return they reported me and printed me a receipt for the report. In that case a hotel can do the same for people to see that they have actually reported you. To make sure it worked as it should, I then went to Jomtien immigration within 24hrs of my return to check if the system actually worked. It did and I never had to fill the form in again. They then gave a me another receipt to say it had been received ( Which the reporting system used by hotels and Condo management cannot do) and said to keep it with the TM6 and passport.
When you enter immigration to report a TM30 don't waste time at the reception desk. Go straight in and past the desks and seats where everyone is waiting. Turn right and go upstairs and the office dealing with the TM30 inquiry's is directly in front of you. Just walk straight on in.
On a side note I have heard of people getting bigger fines up to 5000bht there. A guy from Singapore in the same Condo block as me shelled out 12000bht for him, his wife and daughter. I have no idea of the daughters age but she looks over 15 so have no idea how old children need to be to have this rule applied to them. I hope this post go's some way to let people understand how Jomtien are applying this rule. I have a friend in Ubon who's immigration office are applying the rule exactly the same but I see other immigration offices apply it different.If the mods want to move the post to a more appropriate thread great but please don't delete it as it's taken me an hour to compile it 
Once again I hope this helps anybody dealing with Jomtien immigration.

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for this detailed report, every tenant living in the Jomtien immigration jurisdiction should print this out and give to his landlord if he/she is reluctant to do the reporting. and hopefully some more Condo offices will implement the online reporting system in the near future

[Lovethailandelite]

4 minutes ago, siam2007 said:

 

 

Thank you very much for this detailed report, every tenant living in the Jomtien immigration jurisdiction should print this out and give to his landlord if he/she is reluctant to do the reporting. and hopefully some more Condo offices will implement the online reporting system in the near future

At the moment I not sure it can be done as I see reports that the whole of extranet is down trying to enter government websites. When and if it is coming back nobody knows. The problem is the fact it has to be done so going there and doing yourself is the only way at the moment.
I realize that as an owner I was still going to be fined for not reporting myself and along with the hotel failing, I was on a loser anyway but I  just wanted to make it clear to users that the majority of the time, hotels and condo management are NOT reporting you so be aware.

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

At the moment I not sure it can be done as I see reports that the whole of extranet is down trying to enter government websites. When and if it is coming back nobody knows. The problem is the fact it has to be done so going there and doing yourself is the only way at the moment.
I realize that as an owner I was still going to be fined for not reporting myself and along with the hotel failing, I was on a loser anyway but I  just wanted to make it clear to users that the majority of the time, hotels and condo management are NOT reporting you so be aware.

 

Condo management, manage condo blocks they dont often do rentals or immigration reporting. Condos are individually owned , the condo management isnt the house master. Some apartment blocks have one owner and they do TM30s

[wpcoe]

And, on the other hand, when I filed a TM.30 at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations last month the Monday after I moved back to Jomtien on a Saturday, I was told that there was no need to re-file a TM.30 unless I moved.  Even after returning from an overseas trip, no need for another TM.30 until/unless I moved to a new address, according the the lady on the second floor who processed my TM.30.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

 

Condo management, manage condo blocks they dont often do rentals or immigration reporting. Condos are individually owned , the condo management isnt the house master. Some apartment blocks have one owner and they do TM30s

I never said they did but lots do. My condo block doesn't do rentals but they set it up as a courtesy service to the owners. Do you see a problem with that?

[Lovethailandelite]

3 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

And, on the other hand, when I filed a TM.30 at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations last month the Monday after I moved back to Jomtien on a Saturday, I was told that there was no need to re-file a TM.30 unless I moved.  Even after returning from an overseas trip, no need for another TM.30 until/unless I moved to a new address, according the the lady on the second floor who processed my TM.30.

She is correct. You don't need to file a new TM30 everytime. You do need to report. I think somewhere here there's a communication error. I went there with a new TM30 after did the report back online when they gave me the new receipt. She said no need for new TM30 just report against the old one. Be careful how your understanding the rule.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I never said they did but lots do. My condo block doesn't do rentals but they set it up as a courtesy service to the owners. Do you see a problem with that?

 

If your condo block does TM30s thats great, most dont. There is a popular misconception that he condo office will automatically do TM30s and is responsible for doing them. I think some confusions comes when people rent in a older apartment block (one owner owns the whole building) and they do TM30s. 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

 

If your condo block does TM30s thats great, most dont. There is a popular misconception that he condo office will automatically do TM30s and is responsible for doing them. I think some confusions comes when people rent in a older apartment block (one owner owns the whole building) and they do TM30s. 

Yes. It is no hardship for a decent condo management to set it up online for there owners.There is no way as far as I know for an individual to do it. The only problem is only Immigration can give a receipt to say it was received although condo management and hotels can print the receipt to say it was sent. That receipt though isn't a defense should some how the notice not being received in the 24hr period by immigration. Hence I went there anyway and collected the received receipt to be sure. When you do the notice online you need your original receipt (The tear off slip from the original TM30) your TM6 card and passport to input the information.
I have no idea if on a long term basis, rather than being in a hotel if you can do your very first notification online. Probably not.

[wpcoe]

4 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

She is correct. You don't need to file a new TM30 everytime. You do need to report. I think somewhere here there's a communication error. I went there with a new TM30 after did the report back online when they gave me the new receipt. She said no need for new TM30 just report against the old one. Be careful how your understanding the rule.

 

How does one "report against the old one"?  You return to Immigrations second floor and they pull the original one they have on file and someone (you?  her?) fills in the data on the back?

[Lovethailandelite]

The last time I entered the country, I arrived back in my condo late on the Friday evening. Immigration is closed on a Saturday and by now my condo management had the online system up and running. They reported me online using the slip I had from the original report (Tear off slip from the form you previously filled in) the new TM6 and my passport details. They then printed me a receipt to prove it had been sent. This is a new system and as I never wanted to be fined another 4000bht I went to immigration first thing Monday morning to check the system was working as it should be. I went straight up to the second floor and told them what I had done and showed him the receipt I had printed when I was reported online. He went on the system checking my PP, new TM6 and the original tear off slip. He said all OK and printed off a new receipt A4 size (Not a new tear off slip) He said to keep the original tear off slip an receipt. That was it. If you don't have the online reporting facility, I would assume you just go there with the new TM6, passport and original tear off slip and they do on the system there exactly what I did here. The girls there remembered me from 2 weeks before after one of them fined me the 4000bht, smiling she said 'No fine for you today'. 
Remember here though that unlike a 90 day report (When the system is working) that you do not get a receipt online to say they have received your report. You can only print a receipt to say you have sent it. If something go's wrong and it's not received, then your still liable for the fine next time you need to deal with them. This was made clear to me so even reporting online, I would go there within 24 hrs and check, at least until maybe and if the system is changed and you can get a received report.

[tgeezer]

This is utter madness, they have singled you out for special treatment and now every poor bugger in Pattaya has to do it!


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[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

This is utter madness, they have singled you out for special treatment and now every poor bugger in Pattaya has to do it!


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Stop being so Paranoid! It was happening long before I went there. If you really want to know Chang Mai revived this old law from 1970's months and months ago. Maybe you should learn the Thai Immigration laws before you hit the keyboard?

[tgeezer]

I have been studying the law for the last few days. It takes a long time to become familiar with it but I have seen enough to know that a tourist being held responsible for the duties of a hotel manager is risible and study of the Immigration Law will never make that right.


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[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I have been studying the law for the last few days. It takes a long time to become familiar with it but I have seen enough to know that a tourist being held responsible for the duties of a hotel manager is risible and study of the Immigration Law will never make that right.


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It applies to everybody entering the country and everybody needs to be reported or report. That's how it is. If people choose to ignore it then that's there problem to pay the fine. Trust me though that you won't get an extension there and a few other offices until you do it. I actually quite like the people at Jomtien I/O. It isn't them that is making the rules, only following what they have been told to do.
If the Erawan shrine bombing hadn't of happened and people never made up addresses on the TM6 Card, maybe this would never had happened? They want to know where foreigners are, that's what it is about. Perhaps Europe should do the same so they know who is who and people staying where they say they are?

[tgeezer]

As far as I can tell and I am still reading it, the act does not make reporting change of address within 24 hours or reporting within 48 hours if longer, madatory or stipulate conditions for 37 (3) (4) but leaves that to the director of Immigration. The existence of Form TM 28 would seem to indicate that The director of Immigration has made conditions. So TM 28 should have been the form which the Immigration lady quoted not TM30. IMO.
The act was written 38 years ago.
Surely if the problem is false declarations on TM6 cards this can't be the official solution.


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[Deepinthailand]

Just been speaking to a relative who is in Pattaya been here since October time on a 60 day tv he rented a room in soi metro for first month then moved to a condo in Naklua.  He went to immigration to extend they never asked any questions just extended it for him. He knows dam well the owner of the condo has not reported him living there and neither has he so they can't be that bad down there.

[LongTimeLurker]

12 hours ago, wpcoe said:

And, on the other hand, when I filed a TM.30 at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations last month the Monday after I moved back to Jomtien on a Saturday, I was told that there was no need to re-file a TM.30 unless I moved.  Even after returning from an overseas trip, no need for another TM.30 until/unless I moved to a new address, according the the lady on the second floor who processed my TM.30.

 

The exact opposite of what the farang assistant told me when I was there.

[JackThompson]

My experience has been consistent at Jomtien for a year or so - one TM-30 unless you move, in which case you fill out a new one. 

 

I tried to submit a new TM-30 after a trip out of the country just after this TM-30 law was resurrected - I was asked if I was still at the same address as the TM-30 receipt already in my passport - I replied that I was - was then told "You don't need this then."  That original receipt is still in use - accepted for multiple extensions after trips out and back.  I also put the same address as on my TM-30 on every TM-6 when I enter the country.

 

To the fellow with the problem at Jomtien, I would guess there was no TM-30 on file for your permanent address over an extended time - hence the fine.  They DO want you to have your permanent address registered - just not re-registered over and over. 

 

Note: This info may Only Apply At Jomtien - your local immigration office procedures may vary.  To be safe, try reporting TM-30s every time out and back and only stop if they tell you to stop.

Edited January 14, 2017 by JackThompson

[wpcoe]

16 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

And, on the other hand, when I filed a TM.30 at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations last month the Monday after I moved back to Jomtien on a Saturday, I was told that there was no need to re-file a TM.30 unless I moved.  Even after returning from an overseas trip, no need for another TM.30 until/unless I moved to a new address, according the the lady on the second floor who processed my TM.30.

 

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

The exact opposite of what the farang assistant told me when I was there.

 

Tell me you're surprised.  

 

On a more serious note, though, maybe we should be date-stamping these anecdotal reports as the situation could easily change with new interpretations.  For the record my TM.30 was filed on 19-Dec-2016.  Who has had a TM.30 interaction at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations since then, and what, if anything, did they advise?

 

I did my retirement extension this past week.  As always, I went first to the copy shop by the Immigrations office and let them make the copies they thought I needed.  This year they copied my TM.30.  At desk #8 the male assistant who is pretty thorough and will reject any unnecessary forms *kept* the TM.30 photocopy, so I think they *are* wanting it for a retirement extension now.

[Lovethailandelite]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My experience has been consistent at Jomtien for a year or so - one TM-30 unless you move, in which case you fill out a new one. 

 

I tried to submit a new TM-30 after a trip out of the country just after this TM-30 law was resurrected - I was asked if I was still at the same address as the TM-30 receipt already in my passport - I replied that I was - was then told "You don't need this then."  That original receipt is still in use - accepted for multiple extensions after trips out and back.  I also put the same address as on my TM-30 on every TM-6 when I enter the country.

 

To the fellow with the problem at Jomtien, I would guess there was no TM-30 on file for your permanent address over an extended time - hence the fine.  They DO want you to have your permanent address registered - just not re-registered over and over. 

 

Note: This info may Only Apply At Jomtien - your local immigration office procedures may vary.  To be safe, try reporting TM-30s every time out and back and only stop if they tell you to stop.

Yes. Never a TM30 filed for my permanent address but there concern was also there was no TM30 filed against any entry or exit from the country where I had a hotel stay for the last 3 years which I allegedly become responsible for too. The last time I was reported was 3 years ago which also means some hotels have been complying with this old law even though it has recently been resurrected. They quite openly showed me my entry and exit history for the last 5 years and as I said, offered to go back further if I wanted to dispute the fact.
It's done now and as I now know how the system works and what they expect, they won't be fining me again. I can just as easily report my arrival back home after a trip out of the province or abroad, as easily as I can pay a fine.
On the other hand, it was quite an eye opener just how much information there computer systems are holding regarding entry's and exits and how far back in your history they can go. 

[Maestro]

14 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Yes. Never a TM30 filed for my permanent address but there concern was also there was no TM30 filed against any entry or exit from the country where I had a hotel stay for the last 3 years which I allegedly become responsible for too. The last time I was reported was 3 years ago which also means some hotels have been complying with this old law even though it has recently been resurrected. They quite openly showed me my entry and exit history for the last 5 years and as I said, offered to go back further if I wanted to dispute the fact.
It's done now and as I now know how the system works and what they expect, they won't be fining me again. I can just as easily report my arrival back home after a trip out of the province or abroad, as easily as I can pay a fine.
On the other hand, it was quite an eye opener just how much information there computer systems are holding regarding entry's and exits and how far back in your history they can go. 

 

I am sure that, had you asked, the immigration officer would have been unable to show you any law, Ministerial Regulation or other official rule that makes you responsible for the submission of the TM.30 when you stay at a hotel. Challenge the officer on this , next time you have a friendly chat with him; he may learn something and be grateful to you for it.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

I am sure that, had you asked, the immigration officer would have been unable to show you any law, Ministerial Regulation or other official rule that makes you responsible for the submission of the TM.30 when you stay at a hotel. Challenge the officer on this , next time you have a friendly chat with him; he may learn something and be grateful to you for it.

Don't worry, I had the discussion. There answer was the report needs to be done as the law states that all foreigners need to report or be reported within 24 hrs of entering the country and that anyone coming to Thailand is responsible to know the Immigration laws. If the hotel  fails to report, you become liable. Hotels can quite easily print a receipt and give it to you (I have since found out)  Maybe this scan of the leaflets explaining how it works which they hand out, helps should you read Thai.
Allegedly it lays it out quite plainly. I have no idea if these leaflets have been posted on this forum in the past but this is what Jomtien Immigration hands out.
Take a look and see what you think. Not reading Thai I have relied on others to pick the pieces out of it.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Lovethailandelite