BMTA undecided whether to take delivery of first lot of NGV buses or not

[rooster59]

BMTA undecided whether to take delivery of first lot of NGV buses or not

 

BANGKOK:-- The Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) is undecided whether to accept the delivery of the first lot of Chinese-made NGV buses not as it is awaiting a ruling from the Office of the Attorney-General, BMTA director Mr Surachai Iamvachirasakul said Friday.

The bus supplier, Bestlin Group, won the bid to supply 489 NGV buses at a cost of over 3,000 million baht to BMTA, the city bus operator. The buses were supposed to be assembled in Malaysia with Malaysian local contents which will make the buses eligible to the waiving of import taxes under Asean free trade area agreement. But it turned out that all the buses originated from China in fully-assembled form and they were diverted to Malaysia before being shipped into Laem Chabang deep-sea port to dupe Thai customs that they were assembled in Malaysia.

 

All the buses which arrived at the port were impounded until Bestlin Group paid import taxes and fines.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/bmta-undecided-whether-take-delivery-first-lot-ngv-buses-not/

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2017-01-14

[Thechook]

Great free buses, bet Bestlin Group didn't see that comming.   This is why international companies are fighting each other to do business with Thailand.

[trogers]

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

[edwinchester]

36 minutes ago, trogers said:

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

I'm sure it was all just a misunderstanding.

[PatOngo]

And just what effect will all this have on the image of those involved?

........many eggs on lost faces!

[trogers]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

 

26 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

I'm sure it was all just a misunderstanding.

 

An honest mistake with tax exemptions?

[bokningar]

Just waiting for the right amount of money to come in to the right pocket and it will all be good  

[colinneil]

When these buses need washing maybe they can use the hoses from the fire engines that are still there rusting away.

[optad]

They are not going to return the buses so release them. 

 

Everything else is a contractual negotiation/dispute with a resolution pending via the courts. Numbers game.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Thechook said:

Great free buses, bet Bestlin Group didn't see that comming.   This is why international companies are fighting each other to do business with Thailand.

Not a Thailand problem, the problem was Bestlin, who tried to cheat Thai customs. Guess you just had to find a reason to put down Thais.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, optad said:

They are not going to return the buses so release them. 

 

Everything else is a contractual negotiation/dispute with a resolution pending via the courts. Numbers game.

I read that the import company paid the taxes already and might get a big fine. I guess what they are afraid for is that the import company will plead bankruptcy and Bestin in a way still does not pay the taxes. Bestin, just tried to cheat and could make such a good deal because they did not expect to pay taxes. They thought their cheating would go unnoticed. Now they are liable for the taxes and a fine 3 times the amount of tax if is proven that they falsified the documents on purpose. 

 

So the only real concern here is to make sure Bestin pays the takes (and fine) through the importer and not runs away with the money from the BMA in the meanwhile. Maybe an Escrow account would help.

[BSJ]

The deal has gone sour.  The BMTA can walk away from the deal if they want and then offer Bestlin 10c in the dollar......or the buses will sit there till they rot.   Take it or leave it!

[optad]

Just now, robblok said:

I read that the import company paid the taxes already and might get a big fine. I guess what they are afraid for is that the import company will plead bankruptcy and Bestin in a way still does not pay the taxes. Bestin, just tried to cheat and could make such a good deal because they did not expect to pay taxes. They thought their cheating would go unnoticed. Now they are liable for the taxes and a fine 3 times the amount of tax if is proven that they falsified the documents on purpose. 

 

So the only real concern here is to make sure Bestin pays the takes (and fine) through the importer and not runs away with the money from the BMA in the meanwhile. Maybe an Escrow account would help.

I hear you and agree. It is possible the taxes will not be returned [ala bankruptcy] and as such holding the buses may be prudent for the time being but ultimately will not return more funds and they will enter service. 98 buses have already been taken so spoils the categorial holding notion. 

 

Certainly are needed.  I cannot picture BBK met buses without people hangin' out the windows for air....

 

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, optad said:

I hear you and agree. It is possible the taxes will not be returned [ala bankruptcy] and as such holding the buses may be prudent for the time being but ultimately will not return more funds and they will enter service. 98 buses have already been taken so spoils the categorial holding notion. 

 

Certainly are needed.  I cannot picture BBK met buses without people hangin' out the windows for air....

 

 

Yes I agree the buses are needed, but on the other hand they need to make sure Bestin does not do a runner with the money without paying the taxes. Maybe the BMA should put all the money in an Escrow account only to be released when taxes are paid. I bet the people behind Besting are crying that their scam has failed. (I believe Bestin is Thai owned too but am not 100% sure)

[optad]

^ I am sure there are layers involving many parties in this and monies flowing in areas I don't wish to imagine.  Surely though final payment has not been already made and,  is contingent on this legal breech which cannot be solved by assets being return for inability to pay. That would make no sense.

 

 

It was adventurous to so blatantly bypass Asean requirements. 

[Mister Fixit]

2 hours ago, trogers said:

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

 

Welcome to doing business with the Chinese and the Thais.  Between them they seem to be trying to diddle everyone.

 

At least Thai Customs were on the ball with this one, so good for them.  

[Centrum]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

When these buses need washing maybe they can use the hoses from the fire engines that are still there rusting away.

The buses are sitting in the BMTA site on Rama 9

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, trogers said:

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

 

And staggering that the Beslin company thought nobody would notice!

 

And staggering that the Beslin company had no hesitation to just go ahead and break the law!

 

And staggering that the Beslin group thought they could get all the (fake) certification etc., documents signed with no problems - This alone seems to indicate they were involved / planned to be involved in paying bribes to get the documents 'fixed'!

 

I hope charges are brought against the Beslin executives / owners and they are punished with severe fines and with jail time - time for some examples to frighten others.  

[optad]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I hope charges are brought against the Beslin executives / owners and they are punished with severe fines and with jail time - time for some examples to frighten others.  

As alluded to above, it might more interesting to know who actually owns Bestlin Group and why they thought they would be able to by pass those ASEAN requirements. 

 

Certainly on their website they claim to buy Chinese buses and bring them into thai service which is what they did. 

http://www.bestlingroup.com/en/service

[fruitman]

The buses were leased with a 10? year maintenance contract included in the price.

 

If they go bankrupt the Thai themselves have to do the mainencance i guess. We all know how that will end up.

[wirat69]

Hmmm.... a number of convoys of blue NGV buses passed through Chonburi on their way to Bangkok Thursday evening.... passed more than 20 (as reported on my FB page)....,,, Hmmmm

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, trogers said:

So, the signed supply contract is for buses to be assembled in Malaysia, and these buses are not. A major breach of contract? And a failed attempt for fraud?

Have you seen the contract?

What has been made public is that Bestlin Group is to provide 1) a specified number of buses at 2) a specified price according to 3) a specified delivery schedule. It's not intuitive that the contract would detail how Bestlin arrives at its pricing - why would BMTA care so long as the pricing meets BMTA's procurement standards (ie., median price)? Therefore, breach of contract by Bestlin is only  inclusive to the 3 primary conditions of the contact.

Bestlin's failure to avoid alleged import taxes on the buses that will increase the cost of the buses to Bestlin (and thus its profit margin) should not be a contractural issue for BMTA. Certainly failure to deliver the buses according to the contract would be a contractural issue. By refusing to accept the buses solely because Bestlin is challenging the import taxes could place BMTA in breach of contract. 

[trogers]

25 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Have you seen the contract?

What has been made public is that Bestlin Group is to provide 1) a specified number of buses at 2) a specified price according to 3) a specified delivery schedule. It's not intuitive that the contract would detail how Bestlin arrives at its pricing - why would BMTA care so long as the pricing meets BMTA's procurement standards (ie., median price)? Therefore, breach of contract by Bestlin is only  inclusive to the 3 primary conditions of the contact.

Bestlin's failure to avoid alleged import taxes on the buses that will increase the cost of the buses to Bestlin (and thus its profit margin) should not be a contractural issue for BMTA. Certainly failure to deliver the buses according to the contract would be a contractural issue. By refusing to accept the buses solely because Bestlin is challenging the import taxes could place BMTA in breach of contract. 

 

I am sure there would be more to just these 3 conditions. Importing on behalf of an end user would necessitate the specifying the origin and manufacture of these buses...

 

If not, they can just knock up these buses in some local garages...

[harleyclarkey]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Not a Thailand problem, the problem was Bestlin, who tried to cheat Thai customs. Guess you just had to find a reason to put down down Thais.

 

No....the Thais do such a fine job of that themselves, they need no help.  

[NCC1701A]

does this mean China is still waiting for payment?

 

not good to piss off your communist masters.

 

 

 

[NCC1701A]

and look on the bright side, think how many lives will be saved by not having these buses on Thailand's roads.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

and look on the bright side, think how many lives will be saved by not having these buses on Thailand's roads.

Or look at the dark side - having these new buses on Bangkok's Roads (remember its Bangkok Municipal Transit Authority that's buying them for intercity transport) should be an improvement. Replacing the current decrepit buses currently operating with the new and more green buses should save lives,  improve Bangkok pollution condition and reduce taxpayer operating costs.

[gdgbb]

10 hours ago, Thechook said:

Great free buses, bet Bestlin Group didn't see that comming.   This is why international companies are fighting each other to do business with Thailand.

Free?  Don't think so.

[gdgbb]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes I agree the buses are needed, but on the other hand they need to make sure Bestin does not do a runner with the money without paying the taxes. Maybe the BMA should put all the money in an Escrow account only to be released when taxes are paid. I bet the people behind Besting are crying that their scam has failed. (I believe Bestin is Thai owned too but am not 100% sure)

There is no money for Bestlin to do a runner with.  Bestlin has already paid BMTA a large guarantee amount from which the daily late delivery fines have been deducted and the rest of the buses won't be released until the duty and Customs fines have been paid by Bestlin.  Then only when BMTA have officially  taken delivery will Bestlin be paid the outstanding amount.

[trogers]

50 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

There is no money for Bestlin to do a runner with.  Bestlin has already paid BMTA a large guarantee amount from which the daily late delivery fines have been deducted and the rest of the buses won't be released until the duty and Customs fines have been paid by Bestlin.  Then only when BMTA have officially  taken delivery will Bestlin be paid the outstanding amount.

 

But some guarantees don't seem to be guaranteed... recalling Fox...