Quit your job in the west and move to super cheap Chiang Mai!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

5 hours ago, mamborobert said:

There is a pull to Malaysia and certainly a push factor from Thailand for some.

 

The Ringit has suffered devaluation against most countries and earlier this month was at an 18 year low against the USD (17% drop since April last year) and the future for this year is not that bright.  That is very attractive, apart from the benefits associated with the visa programme and infrastructure etc etc.  Thailand is making sounds of a  rather pitiful attempt to emulate this programme.  You would not  want to hold your breath...or make a bet...or bank on longevity of any arrangements.

 

Myeah, Malaysia..  I'm mostly seeing a country turn more and more Muslim, with anyone not Malay/Muslim being squeezed.   

 

I think if I wanted to live in an affordable, conservative and a little boring country with decent infrastructure I'd probably choose the USA, one of the more rural Southern parts where the weather is actually nice. 

[totally thaied up]

I have a severe mental illness; bipolar disorder and have been living now in Thailand for many, many years. My Thai wife is just fine with it all. She makes sure my medications get taken on time; she writes down each dose in a book, writes daily mood charts and reads up on latest drugs. She makes my appointments to see the Doctor, sits in with me every fortnight and asks many questions in Thai. She shows the Doctor her documenting and we all decide on how to tackle my illness. I have a serious GERD problems due to medication; she feeds me the right foods every day. I cannot ask for more from here.  I am only 47.

 

I understand a lot of men are not this lucky. They either get caught with a bar girl, a gold digger, or a country girl with not much of an IQ with a family that is looking for a better life. I see it out in my village on a daily occurrence. Sometimes it works out and other times it does not.  Still, it does not have to be like this. Many of my friends have professional Thai wife's from lawyers, accountants, nurses and professional business women (could be anything from furniture manufacturer to import/export to Cambodia or other Asian countries). My network of friends did mostly come from my wife as her friends are mostly graduates from her time in University and several of them over the years married foreign men. My wife is just a village girl but was lucky enough to get educated and get into a different circle of people and it changed her life.

 

Before meeting my wife, I was involved in another defacto relationship with a Thai for seven years, and she looked after me very well. It sure is not all doom and gloom on the Thai girl frontage if you are careful.

 

So it is not all bar girls and short time rooms but as many newcomers experience it, making friends here is difficult to do and finding people with your likes and tastes is not as easy as in your home country.

 

My biggest problem here with foreigners was this (and it included the guys that use to attend the CEC as well) was many of the outside groups they formed away from such clubs were very clicky groups.  If you did not click, well, you just did not get invited out.

 

In my village, we have one old farang whose knees are gone and has high blood pressure. The wife owns a store he built for her years ago, but she is too busy cooking and leaves him at times, days by himself unable to walk properly. She is not a Chaing Mai local and has no family with her to look after him. He has no home go to in Europe, has no health insurance and this is just a disaster waiting to happen.

 

So, personally, I do not agree that this city is an easy place to make friends in. Sure, you have the various farang clubs and Facebook events you can hook up into to socialize, but in many ways, a lot of us got away from our home counties to get away from all of that. Sure, I know many people here in Chiang Mai; most are social and like to interact, but over the years, I have had more trouble with foreigners than Thais, so maybe that is why some of these groups are so clicky due to in-group fighting.

 

I don't think NancyL is out of touch but away from the center of Chaing Mai (only 30 minutes or so), it is a much different world, and there are a lot of us 'farangs' living a good life.

Edited January 21, 2017 by totally thaied up

[Bassosa]

Thank you NancyL for the excellent intel. Your comments on creating a safety net not overly reliant on a single person are noted and appreciated. 

[Trujillo]

A couple of people mention how much their wives help them, but that's not the point of this thread. Instead of lauding the wives, you need to tell us how much you pay for them each month since this is about how cheap (or not) it is to live here. The cost of funding a gf or wife is important in the equation of how much you need to live here. 

 

amexpat: "I recommend 50 mil baht."

 

That's US$1,412,030. I seriously doubt that the average Joe retiree here needs to have a nest egg of nearly a million and a half US dollars. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

11 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I seriously doubt that the average Joe retiree here needs to have a nest egg of nearly a million and a half US dollars. 

He won't keep it for long once he gets a Thai wife anyway

[Bassosa]

My Th

30 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

A couple of people mention how much their wives help them, but that's not the point of this thread. Instead of lauding the wives, you need to tell us how much you pay for them each month since this is about how cheap (or not) it is to live here. The cost of funding a gf or wife is important in the equation of how much you need to live here. 

 

 

That's old school thinking. Plenty of us have girlfriends/wives that look after themselves financially.

[stuurman]

11 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

Myeah, Malaysia..  I'm mostly seeing a country turn more and more Muslim, with anyone not Malay/Muslim being squeezed.    

3

 

I lived in Malaysia for 6 years with a Malaysia My Second Home visa and this is one of the main reasons we left.

 

One of the more absurd plans (there are many) is segregated supermarket trolly's, one for halal products and a second one for infidels like me who wanted to buy some bacon or a bottle of wine. 
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2016/01/19/halal-non-halal-trolley-segregation-under-consideration/

 

[NancyL]

20 minutes ago, stuurman said:

 

I lived in Malaysia for 6 years with a Malaysia My Second Home visa and this is one of the main reasons we left.

 

One of the more absurd plans (there are many) is segregated supermarket trolly's, one for halal products and a second one for infidels like me who wanted to buy some bacon or a bottle of wine. 
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2016/01/19/halal-non-halal-trolley-segregation-under-consideration/

 

Where in Malaysia did you live?  

 

We're going to Kota Kinabalu, Sabah state and I didn't see anything like this in the supermarkets and believe me, I spent a long time looking around supermarkets in three different cities in Borneo making sure we would be able to purchase the stuff we use every day and at a reasonable price.   

 

In restaurants, Muslim waitresses would serve wine to us and we saw Muslim families in the malls taking photos of their kids with Santa Claus.   We were told it isn't at all like this in west Malaysia, but east Malaysia prides itself on being multi-cultural.

 

Edit:  Clicked on the link you provided and it's about a "proposed" regulation, not one that has been enacted.  No wonder I didn't see any "segregated" food carts in the grocery stores.  

[stuurman]

2 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Where in Malaysia did you live?  

 

 

Penang. All supermarkets there have separate counters (often tugged away in the back) for non Halal products.

Malay incited riots against the state government (Penang is run by the opposition and has a Chinese majority) are common practice.  

[NancyL]

3 minutes ago, stuurman said:

 

Penang. All supermarkets there have separate counters (often tugged away in the back) for non Halal products.

Malay incited riots against the state government (Penang is run by the opposition and has a Chinese majority) are common practice.  

 

Yup, didn't even consider Penang as reasonable alternative to Chiang Mai.  We want someplace smaller, with less traffic, more walkable, slower pace of life, but still with good quality medical care.  Penang isn't on the radar.  

 

And yes, to answer another post, we'd considered simply moving back to the U.S., but what with the recent election we decided to sit it out for a few more years until we see what develops.

[mesquite]

42 minutes ago, NancyL said:

 

Yup, didn't even consider Penang as reasonable alternative to Chiang Mai.  We want someplace smaller, with less traffic, more walkable, slower pace of life, but still with good quality medical care.  Penang isn't on the radar.  

 

And yes, to answer another post, we'd considered simply moving back to the U.S., but what with the recent election we decided to sit it out for a few more years until we see what develops.

This is my situation as well. I'm considering moving back to the US, but am waiting for the hundreds of thousands there who promised to leave to do so, so I can pick up a housing bargain.

[SaintLouisBlues]

8 minutes ago, mesquite said:

This is my situation as well. I'm considering moving back to the US, but am waiting for the hundreds of thousands there who promised to leave to do so, so I can pick up a housing bargain.

Try Hollywood. By all accounts almost every house will be empty

[Jingthing]

A big issue with repatriation for Americans under 65 will be health care access if you have preexisting conditions which most older people do have.

[Trujillo]

Quote

That's old school thinking. Plenty of us have girlfriends/wives that look after themselves financially.

Perhaps, but from my observations over the last decade here, that's not normal. 

 

 

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Where in Malaysia did you live?  

 

We're going to Kota Kinabalu, Sabah state and I didn't see anything like this in the supermarkets and believe me, I spent a long time looking around supermarkets in three different cities in Borneo making sure we would be able to purchase the stuff we use every day and at a reasonable price.   

 

In restaurants, Muslim waitresses would serve wine to us and we saw Muslim families in the malls taking photos of their kids with Santa Claus.   We were told it isn't at all like this in west Malaysia, but east Malaysia prides itself on being multi-cultural.

 

Edit:  Clicked on the link you provided and it's about a "proposed" regulation, not one that has been enacted.  No wonder I didn't see any "segregated" food carts in the grocery stores.  

Although have not been to Malaysia and never will, I have read reports that the country is edging closer to being under extreme sharia law and many of it`s inhabitants hate westerners. Although Malaysia is a much more multi ethnic society compared with Thailand, there is still racial and cultural segregation and divides there. The country is politically unstable and it`s currency, the ringgit, is one of the most volatile in the world. I do remember some years ago when the ringgit was locked into Malaysia and not possible to exchange it from or to any currencies.

 

Considering the world situation today regarding the delicate situations and tensions between the west and Islam I would never go to live in a Muslim country, especially now Donald Trump is in power and the stance he is taking against Islam that are going to increase tensions even further.

 

Moving to Malaysia, bad move. Thailand, with all it`s faults and instabilities, is still one of the most secure and safest countries for westerners within the region.

 

 

 

 

 

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Although have not been to Malaysia and never will, I have read reports that the country is edging closer to being under extreme sharia law and many of it`s inhabitants hate westerners. Although Malaysia is a much more multi ethnic society compared with Thailand, there is still racial and cultural segregation and divides there. The country is politically unstable and it`s currency, the ringgit, is one of the most volatile in the world. I do remember some years ago when the ringgit was locked into Malaysia and not possible to exchange it from or to any currencies.

 

Considering the world situation today regarding the delicate situations and tensions between the west and Islam I would never go to live in a Muslim country, especially now Donald Trump is in power and the stance he is taking against Islam that are going to increase tensions even further.

 

Moving to Malaysia, bad move. Thailand, with all it`s faults and instabilities, is still one of the most secure and safest countries for westerners within the region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can you possibly profess to know something about a country you've never visited based on "what you've read".  I can find websites that claim the U.S. was edging to extreme sharia law under Pres. Obama.  

 

You are right about one thing, we do intend to keep a much lower profile in our "second retirement".  Not necessarily out of fear because we're Americans, but because we've grown weary of not being able to call our time our own.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

 

How can you possibly profess to know something about a country you've never visited based on "what you've read".  I can find websites that claim the U.S. was edging to extreme sharia law under Pres. Obama.  

 

You are right about one thing, we do intend to keep a much lower profile in our "second retirement".  Not necessarily out of fear because we're Americans, but because we've grown weary of not being able to call our time our own.

Over time I have thought about where would I go if major problems occur in Thailand,  like a civil war or they told all foreigners to get out. So I looked online in forums, news reports, articles and personally spoken with people who have lived in Thailand`s neighbouring countries and to me Thailand still seems to be the safest bet. My own gut feeling tells me that it`s not good sense to go and live in a Muslim country. You are right I cannot be an expert on anything not based on personal experiences and only what I`ve read or been told. But I`m staying with Thailand that I have already tried and tested and not prepared to risk messing up my life going into the unknown. Better the devil you know, then the devil you don`t. But I wish you good luck and success, it`s your decision and hope it all works out for you.

 

If you have grown weary of not being able to enjoy your own time and retirement, then that`s your fault, no one forced you to make commitments, you could easily fade into the background and live a normal life in Thailand and I don`t understand why you see the need to go abroad to fulfill a peaceful life if that`s what you mean?

[Jingthing]

Well, on the Malaysian political thing, it is true that the people there may be sensitive to American political actions in the Muslim world, particularly around Israel policy (considering how right wing trump is on that compared to all previous U.S. presidents). I'll never forget my visit to K.L. when I was asked by a convenience store clerk where I was from during the Bush invasion of Iraq, said American, and before I could tell her I was against Bush, had to deal with SPIT in my face. True story. 

 

I've heard great things about the far away from K.L. city NancyL is going to though and I would look into it myself except I could never qualify for their retirement visa program. (Oh well.) 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Jingthing

[Trujillo]

Spit in your face? Did you slap her into next Wednesday? 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Spit in your face? Did you slap her into next Wednesday? 

No I didn't because the store was in the hotel I was staying at and I reckoned she might have brothers with weapons worse than spit. This was a hard core very covered up fundamentalist Muslim lady (but convenient mouth hole for spitting at Yankee dogs). Their turf.

When I did tell her the USA is a really large country and not everyone supports Bush including me, she looked confused, but I never went back there to buy again! 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Jingthing

[Trujillo]

The idea that someone would not return to their own country, the USA, because Trump is president is bizarre in the extreme.

For 99.9 percent of Americans, daily life does not change much regardless of who is president. Even during the warmongering Bush years, life went on pretty much the same as before. 

As long as you are not coming as an illegal, everything will be hunky-dory. 

-------------------------------------------------

 Arthur C. Clarke said Douglas Adams' use of "don't panic" was perhaps the best advice that could be given to humanity.

[Sparkles]

I was alerted some time ago to the consideration of Costa Rica as very viable retirement destination.

Bit out of left field but I trust my friends juudgement and went to www.international living.com link Costa Rica.

 

Very impressive as they have no army they have channelled money into health and education and have  developed a very viable local agricuture industry.

Its politically stable and has been for some time,very low level of crime ,universal health system, English widely spoken and their education achievements rate very highly.

 

Religion is majority Roman Catholic. Well worth a look if you have itchy feet. 1,000's of retirees have apparently already completed the move.

[cyberfarang]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, on the Malaysian political thing, it is true that the people there may be sensitive to American political actions in the Muslim world, particularly around Israel policy (considering how right wing trump is on that compared to all previous U.S. presidents). I'll never forget my visit to K.L. when I was asked by a convenience store clerk where I was from during the Bush invasion of Iraq, said American, and before I could tell her I was against Bush, had to deal with SPIT in my face. True story. 

 

I've heard great things about the far away from K.L. city NancyL is going to though and I would look into it myself except I could never qualify for their retirement visa program. (Oh well.) 

If I was visiting a foreign country and a national of that country spit in my face either because of my race, nationality or religion, it would put me off ever visiting that country again for life. Besides the usual, people trying to overcharge, scam or rip me off in Thailand because I am a Farlang, I have never experienced any type of extreme prejudice in Thailand as you described what happened to you in Malaysia. And can anyone seriously say that the situation there has improved? Now that Trump is in power I guess it must be even worse or going to become much worse in the foreseeable future. What would happen if one day the IS took control or gained strongholds in Malaysia and please don`t tell me it could never happen. Throwing it all in and planting roots in a Muslim country is not a good idea in these troubled times and I have no need to visit these countries to know that.

 

My message to Nancy and anyone else thinking there are greener pastures elsewhere, is think carefully before throwing in the towel from the peaceful and tranquility of Chiang Mai that can be a haven for retired westerners.

[Jingthing]

It was an isolated incident. It doesn't represent my experience in repeated visits to different parts of Malaysia, and it also happened during a very "hot" time in international politics. There is a lot to like about Malaysia and I wouldn't rule it out based on politics, but like I said, I can't qualify for their residency programs, but many people can. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

The idea that someone would not return to their own country, the USA, because Trump is president is bizarre in the extreme.

For 99.9 percent of Americans, daily life does not change much regardless of who is president. Even during the warmongering Bush years, life went on pretty much the same as before. 

As long as you are not coming as an illegal, everything will be hunky-dory.

 

 

To explain the thinking about U.S. folks not wanting to return now with Trump as president, I'd say it's kind of like the prospect of sleeping in the sewer.

 

Yes, you can do it. But you probably really don't want to, and if you do, you'll likely end up waking up in the morning smelling bad, with various kinds of infestations, and generally feeling DIRTY!

Edited January 22, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

The idea that someone would not return to their own country, the USA, because Trump is president is bizarre in the extreme.

For 99.9 percent of Americans, daily life does not change much regardless of who is president. Even during the warmongering Bush years, life went on pretty much the same as before. 

As long as you are not coming as an illegal, everything will be hunky-dory. 

-------------------------------------------------

 Arthur C. Clarke said Douglas Adams' use of "don't panic" was perhaps the best advice that could be given to humanity.

As I've pointed out, American expats under 65 with preexisting medical conditions do need to consider that moving back to the USA could result in their death due to lack of medical access under trump's "replacement" of the ACA. There is already a strong indication that the current preexisting condition acceptance of insurance companies under ACA will be RADICALLY changed (though they will B.S. that it's still there). Of course we don't have specific details of the "replacement" yet but there are already strong indications that it will be very bad news for people with preexisting conditions. Of course in Thailand and other nations insurance companies don't cover preexisting conditions either, but at least retail medical care is much more affordable pretty much in any nation other than the USA. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Jingthing

[larrybikes]

I lived in KL last year for about 3 months with my then girlfriend. I never experienced any problems with Malays while I lived there. We lived in a planned community in a 1,700 sq ft brand new condo with a view of the Petronas Towers and an infinity pool for abou $800 US. The problem I had was the lack of an expats club with multiple activities like we have here in CM. Plus traffic and parking there is terrible.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[finy]

I love KL, but when I went for a shave and told the Muslim barber I wanted it all taken off his face was a mixture of 'you fckng cvn*' and 'I might slit your throat open'.

[NancyL]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As I've pointed out, American expats under 65 with preexisting medical conditions do need to consider that moving back to the USA could result in their death due to lack of medical access under trump's "replacement" of the ACA. There is already a strong indication that the current preexisting condition acceptable of insurance companies under ACA will be RADICALLY changed (though they will B.S. that it's still there). Of course we don't have specific details of the "replacement" yet but there are already strong indications that it will be very bad news for people with preexisting conditions. Of course in Thailand and other nations insurance companies don't cover preexisting conditions either, but at least retail medical care is much more affordable pretty much in any nation other than the USA. 

 

This is a big part of why we aren't ready to go back to the U.S.  I'm not yet 65 and definitely have some pre-existing health conditions.  Hubby is older and he is paying Medicare part B so, his rates wouldn't be higher if/when he does go back, but when we look at what he'd have to pay for "full Medicare", to cover drugs, etc if we went back, we're hearing numbers like $350-400 per month.  Heck, he doesn't spent that now on a good international health insurance plan to cover catastrophic events, with a high deductible to keep it affordable, a personal accident policy with no deductible and out-of-pocket "retail costs" for the occasional out-patient visit and drugs.  Kota Kinabalu appears to have similarly affordable private hospitals and easy access like Thailand.

 

 

 

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, after you move I hope you check in here on the forum now and then to let us all know how you're doing and if it's working out.

 

Would be interesting for many people here I'm sure.