Israel's right wing has grand plans for Trump era

[webfact]

Israel's right wing has grand plans for Trump era

By Maayan Lubell

REUTERS

 

FILE PHOTO: Ultra-Orthodox Jewish man walks next to a poster of Donald Trump in Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighbourhood, October 13, 2016. REUTERS/Amir Cohen/File Photo

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's right wing has been eagerly awaiting Donald Trump's arrival in the White House, hoping a Republican president will usher in a new era of support for Israeli settlement-building on land Palestinians want for a state.

 

The far-right Jewish Home party, along with members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party, is promoting legislation that would effectively annex one large settlement in the occupied West Bank to Israel and another bill that would legalise dozens of unauthorised outposts.

 

But there could be a question mark over the issue, with Netanyahu possibly looking to curb settlement laws, wary of the dangers of the far right's ambitions being too freely unleashed as he feels his way forward with the new U.S. administration.

The Israeli leader's spokesman declined to comment on Netanyahu's position.

 

In its final weeks, the Obama administration angered the Israeli government by withholding a traditional U.S. veto of an anti-settlement resolution at the United Nations Security Council, enabling the measure to pass.

 

President Barack Obama on Wednesday said he was worried that the prospects for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- the idea of Israel and Palestine living side-by-side in peace and security -- were waning.

 

Israeli right wingers contrast Obama's warnings with what they see as positive signals from Trump that indicate Washington's attitude towards settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, areas Israel captured in a 1967 war, is about to change.

 

Trump's nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, echoed his condemnation of the world body over its treatment of Israel at her Senate confirmation hearing on Wednesday.

 

"SUDDEN MOVES CAN BE EXPLOSIVE"

 

Trump, who has said he wants to meet Netanyahu "at the first opportunity", has pledged to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. In his remarks on Wednesday, Obama cautioned against "sudden unilateral moves" that could be "explosive".

 

Israel regards all of Jerusalem as its capital but most of the world does not, seeing its final status as a matter for peace negotiations that have been frozen since 2014.

 

In a move that has emboldened Israeli right wingers, the president-elect has already appointed a new U.S. ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, who is considered far right on issues, including settlement building.

 

Naftali Bennett, leader of the Jewish Home, hopes that under Trump's administration the notion of establishing a Palestinian state will be abandoned.

 

He wants to promote a bill extending Israeli sovereignty to Maale Adumim, a West Bank settlement of about 40,000 Israelis that lies just to the east of Jerusalem.

 

That would in effect mean Israel annexing some of the land it has occupied for almost 50 years.

 

"It's either (Israeli) sovereignty or Palestine," Bennett told Army Radio this month. "The question is not what will Trump do but what will Israel ask for. What will Israel present as its vision. We are in the money-time now for forming this vision."

 

But Professor Itamar Rabinovich, a former Israeli ambassador to the United States, believes the right wing may be getting ahead of itself and its ambitions could backfire.

 

"In reality, where the United States needs to live not just with us but also with the Arab and Muslim world, supporting extremist measures in Israel could turn out to be something the United States cannot live with," Rabinovich said.

 

ANNEXATION "RED LINE"

 

Bennett ultimately advocates the annexation of most of the West Bank, leaving just the major Palestinian towns and cities in Palestinian hands. But first he is testing the water with the annexation bill, entitled "Sovereignty in Maale Adumim First". It is due for a first discussion in a ministerial committee on Sunday, two of its drafters said.

 

"I believe this is the gift that the people of Israel deserve in the run-up to Trump's inauguration," Bennett's fellow party member, Betzalel Smotrich, told parliament on Tuesday.

 

A spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said annexation was a red line. "Any such Israeli decision will be considered a dangerous escalation that would end any possible hope for peace," Nabil Abu Rdainah told Reuters.

 

Late last year, a separate bill that would retroactively legalise settlement outposts built on privately-owned Palestinian land in the West Bank passed the first of three votes in parliament required to make it law. No dates have been set for final approval, and it has since disappeared from the agenda.

 

Asked about the delay, a source in Netanyahu's office said: "He wants to freeze the outpost bill."

 

Asked about the law, a legislative source said: "It's stuck in committee. There will be attempts to bring it back on the agenda after Jan. 20, but I think it is pretty much buried at this point," he said, referring to the date of the inauguration.

 

The legislation had drawn anger from the Palestinians and international condemnation. Smotrich told Reuters that it will be brought to a second and third reading in February. "We were waiting for the end of the Obama age," he said.

 

A political source close to Netanyahu said that with regard to the proposed Maale Adumim annexation, the prime minister may say he wishes to hold off until after he meets Trump.

 

Tzachi Hanegbi, a Likud minister and Netanyahu confidant, said Netanyahu understood that such steps would further isolate Israel. Most countries regard Israeli settlements as illegal, a view that Israel disputes.

 

"He does not want to shake the entire world and put Israel at the centre of contention, isolation and criticism," Hanegbi told Army Radio. "I hope the government will not let itself be dragged after Jewish Home's agenda."

 

At the same time, Netanyahu is competing with Jewish Home for right-wing, pro-settlement voters. He may disagree with the party's approach, but he can't ignore it.

 

"If the (annexation) bill comes up, Likud ministers will support it. They can do nothing else," the source said.

 

(Writing by Maayan Lubell; Additional reporting by Ali Sawafta in Ramallah; Editing by Jeffrey Heller and Peter Millership)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-01-20

[Jingthing]

Very bad news.  A U.S. "president" that's much more right wing than even Netanyahu on Israel policy  Welcome to the trump era.  It won't be pretty. 

[notmyself]

I fear you are right JT. Trump has already stated that the inaction of the U.S. in (supporting illegal under international law settlement building) was a disgrace. What can we expect in the next 4 years? I think Israel (government) will simply annex most all of the region and the U.S. will veto anything the UN says about it.

[dexterm]

from the OP..
"Bennett ultimately advocates the annexation of most of the West Bank, leaving just the major Palestinian towns and cities in Palestinian hands."

 

Now where have we seen that situation before in relatively recent history? Sounds pretty much like apartheid to me. At least the charade of Israel supposedly wishing to negotiate a two state solution allowing Israel to simply manage the conflict will be over.

 

No doubt all the ramifications of such a situation and an eventual binational state with equal rights for all Muslims, Jews, and Christians loom large in Netanyahu's thinking.

 

As Kerry warned: "Israel can either be Jewish or democratic, it cannot be both"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761881

 

Netanyahu will be rushing to see Trump to discuss this with him because the dope hasn't realized this yet. 

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, dexterm said:

No doubt all the ramifications of such a situation and an eventual binational state with equal rights for all Muslims, Jews, and Christians loom large in Netanyahu's thinking.

As Kerry warned: "Israel can either be Jewish or democratic, it cannot be both"

 

   Everyone in Israel do have equal rights now, whichever Religion they follow .

Israel is also Jewish and a democracy , it can and is both

[dexterm]

36 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   Everyone in Israel do have equal rights now, whichever Religion they follow .

Israel is also Jewish and a democracy , it can and is both

Well, that is far from true. Perhaps you should research the multitude of laws which Israel already uses to discriminate against its minorities.
www.adalah.org/en/law/index

 

I was referring to the move by the right wing in the OP to annex the whole of the West Bank, thereby inheriting a further 2.5 million Palestinian residents. Will they be made supposedly equal citizens with the right to vote too , or will they be controlled in an apartheid arrangement?

 

If they are made citizens it would then be just a matter of time before Palestinian Muslim and Christians outnumbered Jews. So how could you have a Jewish state if Jews are not the majority? It's the problem that Zionism has faced since its inception. In the past (48 and 67) they have solved this demographic dilemma by ethnic cleansing kicking out Palestinians into the West Bank and Gaza.   Israel is now expanding further and will inherit the descendants of these refugees.

I dont think the world will stand idly by and allow a 3rd wave of ethnic cleansing.

[sanemax]

30 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well, that is far from true. Perhaps you should research the multitude of laws which Israel already uses to discriminate against its minorities.
www.adalah.org/en/law/index

 

   That has been shown to be incorrect , https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/07/17/new-report-refutes-ngos-list-of-israeli-laws-that-discriminate-against-arab-citizens-accuses-group-of-delegitimizing-jewish-state-to-negate-its-existence/

[dexterm]

40 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   That has been shown to be incorrect , https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/07/17/new-report-refutes-ngos-list-of-israeli-laws-that-discriminate-against-arab-citizens-accuses-group-of-delegitimizing-jewish-state-to-negate-its-existence/

Well a well known source of Israeli propaganda would say that wouldnt they?

 

I notice you haven't addressed the huge elephant in the room problem in the OP of what to do with 2.5 million Palestinians who have been resident in the West Bank and Israel itself for generations, in areas most of Netanyahu's cabinet plan to annex with the Trump cheer squad giving the nod of approval?

 

What's it to be:

equal citizenship (even your algemeiner's version)

or

apartheid?
 

[Yann55]

If this guy had a whiff of political coherence in him he would tell those extreme right warmongers to get the hell out of the settlements, which are immoral, illegal and politically unjustifiable. Inflaming China about Taiwan on the one hand and supporting the settlement policy in Israel is nothing short of schizophrenia.

 

But then ... you don't expect a donkey to understand Latin, so I wouldn't put my hopes too high.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Yann55

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well a well known source of Israeli propaganda would say that wouldnt they?

 

I notice you haven't addressed the huge elephant in the room problem in the OP of what to do with 2.5 million Palestinians who have been resident in the West Bank and Israel itself for generations, in areas most of Netanyahu's cabinet plan to annex with the Trump cheer squad giving the nod of approval?

 

What's it to be:

equal citizenship (even your algemeiner's version)

or

apartheid?
 

 

  Nope, quite a simple solution, Divide Israel and the territories up into different states and give each state a senator and the party with the most states gets elected.

    Divide Israel proper up unto little states and make the West bank one big state . 

[muffy]

Israel won all the wars and should keep all the land .

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, muffy said:

Israel won all the wars and should keep all the land .

...together with all the people they conquered??

[dexterm]

59 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

  Nope, quite a simple solution, Divide Israel and the territories up into different states and give each state a senator and the party with the most states gets elected.

    Divide Israel proper up unto little states and make the West bank one big state . 

I believe that's called gerrymandering. Just another form of disempowerment.

 

I have a solution. What if all Israeli citizens, new and old, of all religions earned the right to vote (if they wanted to) by means of some sort of community service. 

Serving in the armed forces might be one of them, so that would give instant enfranchisement to most Israeli Jews over 18. Then gradually over the years, more citizens would gain voting rights as all peoples learned to co-exist peacefully, with earning their right to vote giving them a sense of duty, loyalty and ownership of the country.

 

I'd also separate religion and the state in education. Make parents who want to send their kids to a religious school pay every last cent themselves. Build hundreds of new primary schools and kindergartens. The first intakes grow up through the grades accepting one anther as friends rather than be poisoned by their parents' prejudices.

 

Yes, all John Lennon "Imagine" stuff, but a hell of a lot better than what Trump and Israel's religious right have planned for the next 4 years.

Edited January 20, 2017 by dexterm

[sanemax]

^Palestinians and the Arab/Islamic World , will never accept Israelis right to exist

[Jingthing]

I want to add something to this as it relates to the impact of the tragedy of the demagogue trump becoming president on Israel policy.

While it is true, technically that trump won the presidency (though lost the popular vote by three million votes) in no way can it be said that the American people consciously voted for a U.S. Israel policy so RADICALLY right wing as they're actually getting. 

Did he mention Israel policy in any detail at all during any stump speech? Did he broadcast widely that his election was going to be seen as American approval for the most incredibly FAR RIGHT factions of Israeli politics?

As far as American Jews, yes they DID pay attention to more details, and about 75 percent of them voted AGAINST trump.

So yes his position was KNOWABLE, but it was not actually KNOWN by the vast majority of even trump voters.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

^Palestinians and the Arab/Islamic World , will never accept Israelis right to exist

Another old myth.

 

Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords. 
The world is still waiting for Israel to reciprocate.

 

Here is Arafat's 1993 letter recognizing Israel...

"Mr. Prime Minister,
The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: 
- The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
- The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. 
- The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

^Palestinians and the Arab/Islamic World , will never accept Israelis right to exist

For the most part, I agree, and that explains the need for a very strong Israeli defense capability, which indeed it does have. But that's not the same thing as supporting the most radically right wing POV on west bank policy. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I want to add something to this as it relates to the impact of the tragedy of the demagogue trump becoming president on Israel policy.

While it is true, technically that trump won the presidency (though lost the popular vote by three million votes) in no way can it be said that the American people consciously voted for a U.S. Israel policy so RADICALLY right wing as they're actually getting. 

Did he mention Israel policy in any stump speech?

As far as American Jews, yes they paid attention to more details, and about 75 percent of them voted AGAINST trump.

So yes it his position was KNOWABLE, but it was not actually KNOWN by the vast majority of even trump voters.

 

 

   I am sure that when it came to casting their votes, Trumps Israel policy would have been way down on the list of voters concerns

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   I am sure that when it came to casting their votes, Trumps Israel policy would have been way down on the list of voters concerns

It's more important to American Jews (that are mostly liberal), American Muslims (who predictably are more hostile to Israel), some segments of American Christian fundamentalists (who are right wing on Israel policy). In general there is mainstream American support to support Israel's right to exist and defend itself within the context of working towards a two state solution. trump is a break from that on the part about working towards a TWO STATE SOLUTION. trump represents the most FAR RIGHT position on Israel policy in the history of the existence of Israel. 

The MOST far right factions of Israeli politics are correct to see trump winning as their victory too. Pretty darn depressing but then so is just about everything about trump being elected. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Another old myth.

 

Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords. 
The world is still waiting for Israel to reciprocate.

 

Here is Arafat's 1993 letter recognizing Israel...

"Mr. Prime Minister,
The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: 
- The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
- The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. 
- The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

 

   The PLO are no longer in control, Hamas are now in control and they have vowed to destroy Israel .

  What the PLO said is now irrelevant , Arafat is dead and the PLO are not in control anymore

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   The PLO are no longer in control, Hamas are now in control and they have vowed to destroy Israel .

  What the PLO said is now irrelevant , Arafat is dead and the PLO are not in control anymore

This is just silly trolling. Congratulations, you sucked me in for a while thinking we might have a sensible discussion..

Enough already. I am off for a swim. Goodbye.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

This is just silly trolling. Congratulations, you sucked me in for a while thinking we might have a sensible discussion..

Enough already. I am off for a swim. Goodbye.

 

  How is that supposed to be trolling ?

Maybe you think that Palestinians have the same kind  of Authority in control as Western nations, where by Government statements carry over to the next Government , its not the case for the Pallys

   The PLO and Hamas were two rival factions and Hamas didnt agree with the PLO recognising Israel and they still do not , never have done and never will

 

[Morch]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Very bad news.  A U.S. "president" that's much more right wing than even Netanyahu on Israel policy  Welcome to the trump era.  It won't be pretty. 

 

I don't know that Trump can be said to be "much more right wing". His pick for ambassador and his son-in-law, yes. Trump might lean this way or that, but is not what you'd call an ideologue. If there was a set of conditions which would make supporting Israel's right wing a less favorable proposition, doubt he wouldn't go back on previous statements, by using whatever pretext.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, notmyself said:

I fear you are right JT. Trump has already stated that the inaction of the U.S. in (supporting illegal under international law settlement building) was a disgrace. What can we expect in the next 4 years? I think Israel (government) will simply annex most all of the region and the U.S. will veto anything the UN says about it.

 

The OP presents a more complex picture - at least some on Israel's right wing (including Netanyahu) are not unaware of the international implications of such moves. It also remains to be seen how the Trump's administration supposed support will translate in reality. While it would be reasonable to assume that the US will resume it's former stance with regard to protecting Israel on the UNSC, I don't think it will mean a carte blanche to any Israeli move. Rather, I think there will be some understanding allowing Israel greater leeway, but not a free pass.

 

IMO, this will put Netanyahu in a tough spot. Not so different from his current predicament, but more so. He'll need to play the role of the (relatively) responsible adult, while the more extreme elements of his coalition will do their best to present him as a weakling and as an ideological "traitor". This is assuming he will survive the current episode of his legal troubles, and that the country isn't heading for a new elections in the near future.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, dexterm said:

from the OP..
"Bennett ultimately advocates the annexation of most of the West Bank, leaving just the major Palestinian towns and cities in Palestinian hands."

 

Now where have we seen that situation before in relatively recent history? Sounds pretty much like apartheid to me. At least the charade of Israel supposedly wishing to negotiate a two state solution allowing Israel to simply manage the conflict will be over.

 

No doubt all the ramifications of such a situation and an eventual binational state with equal rights for all Muslims, Jews, and Christians loom large in Netanyahu's thinking.

 

As Kerry warned: "Israel can either be Jewish or democratic, it cannot be both"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761881

 

Netanyahu will be rushing to see Trump to discuss this with him because the dope hasn't realized this yet. 

 

The OP as well as the linked Kerry's speech say a whole lot more than the bit you choose to focus on. Neither paints a simplistic vision of current affairs or future issues as you present.

 

Bennett may advocate a whole lot of despicable things, but this does not necessarily mean they will be materialized. Somehow his views are transformed into reality in your mind, even before happening.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, dexterm said:

Well a well known source of Israeli propaganda would say that wouldnt they?

 

I notice you haven't addressed the huge elephant in the room problem in the OP of what to do with 2.5 million Palestinians who have been resident in the West Bank and Israel itself for generations, in areas most of Netanyahu's cabinet plan to annex with the Trump cheer squad giving the nod of approval?

 

What's it to be:

equal citizenship (even your algemeiner's version)

or

apartheid?
 

 

Well a well known source of Israeli propaganda would say that wouldnt they?

 

And  you post this objection after quoting Adalah as an unbiased source, well well...

 

There is no annexation plan by Netanyahu's cabinet, but rather a coalition partner. To put things in perspective, the party in question got 8 seats in parliament, 3 minister positions (of which 2 are members of the security cabinet).

[Morch]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  Nope, quite a simple solution, Divide Israel and the territories up into different states and give each state a senator and the party with the most states gets elected.

    Divide Israel proper up unto little states and make the West bank one big state . 

 

As far as I'm aware, no one is actually suggesting the above.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As far as I'm aware, no one is actually suggesting the above.

 

   It was my suggestion, thought up by myself 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

I believe that's called gerrymandering. Just another form of disempowerment.

 

I have a solution. What if all Israeli citizens, new and old, of all religions earned the right to vote (if they wanted to) by means of some sort of community service. 

Serving in the armed forces might be one of them, so that would give instant enfranchisement to most Israeli Jews over 18. Then gradually over the years, more citizens would gain voting rights as all peoples learned to co-exist peacefully, with earning their right to vote giving them a sense of duty, loyalty and ownership of the country.

 

I'd also separate religion and the state in education. Make parents who want to send their kids to a religious school pay every last cent themselves. Build hundreds of new primary schools and kindergartens. The first intakes grow up through the grades accepting one anther as friends rather than be poisoned by their parents' prejudices.

 

Yes, all John Lennon "Imagine" stuff, but a hell of a lot better than what Trump and Israel's religious right have planned for the next 4 years.

 

I suggest you would familiarize yourself with both reality and prevailing attitudes before attempting to "solve" anything.

 

Actual support for a one-state solution is minimal among both Israelis and Palestinians. There is no brotherly love, goodwill or even trust. And there is no reason to expect that this will change under conditions such as your fantasize about - doubt that Palestinians will go for "gradually gaining voting rights", or that the peace could be kept until such a time as your kumbaya nonsense  will be applicable.

 

Your "vision" is not the Palestinian vision, nor the Israeli one. It is simply a Western left wing fantasy, which ignores reality in favor of an ideological position. Essentially, this is not that much different from Israel's right wing politicians burying their heads in the sand. Same same but different. And as usual, all your hot air ignores the Palestinian side - or do you thing they all subscribe to your civic and sacrilegious notions?

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   It was my suggestion, thought up by myself 

 

That's great. Pretty much out of touch as the poster you were responding to.