Buying a condo off the plan at or near Phuket

[Wonderboy]

There are mostly two types when it comes to purchasing advice on TV.. And that's dumb and dumber. Firstly the dumb who give all sorts of complicated reasoning as to why not to buy and then there is dumber who believes it.
Last 20 years has seen extraordinary advances in condo prices especially in bangkok tourist areas but dumb who never had the cash and dumber who had it but got priced out.

Really? I guess some are lucky (or smart if you prefer) and made money. But it really is a gamble. I bought a unit in 2003 in Asoke, Bangkok. Hardly any appreciation, if at all, if you account general inflation. And this is a very central location. Then in 2005 I bought a 10m unit off plan in Jomtien. In 2008 buyers got the choice of paying or loosing their deposit, so most paid even though development where only partially finished. Only 50% of units where sold, development stopped and the developer never paid common fees. Now the whole building is falling apart, the criminal developer never spent an hour in jail.

If you want to buy in Thailand, don't buy off-plan or at least only from solid developers with proven track records. Buy to use it, not as an investment. Of course you can make money, but there are alternative markets with much less risks.

WB

[zorro1]

Really? I guess some are lucky (or smart if you prefer) and made money. But it really is a gamble. I bought a unit in 2003 in Asoke, Bangkok. Hardly any appreciation, if at all, if you account general inflation. And this is a very central location. Then in 2005 I bought a 10m unit off plan in Jomtien. In 2008 buyers got the choice of paying or loosing their deposit, so most paid even though development where only partially finished. Only 50% of units where sold, development stopped and the developer never paid common fees. Now the whole building is falling apart, the criminal developer never spent an hour in jail.

If you want to buy in Thailand, don't buy off-plan or at least only from solid developers with proven track records. Buy to use it, not as an investment. Of course you can make money, but there are alternative markets with much less risks.

WB

Alternativ markets like holding real estate in the USA in 2008 sub prime and getting destroyed, many places are still under water by 80%

But here is what cracks me up, the dumb and dumber are now actually saying there is a price bubble! And wait for a correction.. They missed the spike and now they are to expensive.. LMAO!

[wpcoe]

On 1/21/2017 at 4:25 PM, OzJim said:

Ok thanks for that I'll look at a resale condo later early next year


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My advice on timing would be to maybe look early in the year, but to also try a little later like March-April after High Season is truly over and you might find sellers more willing to negotiate.

 

As someone who had a condo on the market for a few years I was less willing to drop the price during Dec-Jan because I felt that was prime time for buyers to be here and my best chance on getting top dollar.  If someone approached me in March I'd be more willing to consider a "low ball" offer because I knew I probably would be sitting on the condo for another nine months until the next High Season arrived.

 

My strategy might have worked.  I sold to a German guy in November for full asking price, and since he was short on time here, the time from first viewing to closing at Land Office was two weeks.

[xylophone]

On 2/3/2017 at 10:00 PM, zorro1 said:

There are mostly two types when it comes to purchasing advice on TV.. And that's dumb and dumber. Firstly the dumb who give all sorts of complicated reasoning as to why not to buy and then there is dumber who believes it.
Last 20 years has seen extraordinary advances in condo prices especially in bangkok tourist areas but dumb who never had the cash and dumber who had it but got priced out.

Perhaps you should try talking to the hundreds of folk who have lost their money in three stalled off the plan condominium projects here in Patong; one in which well over 900 units were supposed to have been built – – I think they'd probably have a different opinion to you.

 

Or indeed to my Norwegian friend who sold his 64 m² one-bedroom apartment overlooking a golf course here for 1.55 million baht, so in effect the price dropped more than 60% since it was purchased some six years ago; or perhaps Australian friends of mine who bought a penthouse apartment overlooking the sea here and paid 17 million baht for it and have only just sold it after two years of trying, for 11 million baht; and then again you could make an offer on one of the many two-bedroom townhouses in a small estate in Patong which were fetching around 5 million baht when sold, however some owners would take 3.5 million baht for them now.........

 

Sure there are regional variances, but from all of the reports I have read, and all of the things I have seen with my own eyes, there would appear to be many empty apartments, many resales at less than purchase price and a real estate market in which the "bigger fool" element comes into play!

[zorro1]

Perhaps you should try talking to the hundreds of folk who have lost their money in three stalled off the plan condominium projects here in Patong; one in which well over 900 units were supposed to have been built – – I think they'd probably have a different opinion to you.
 
Or indeed to my Norwegian friend who sold his 64 m² one-bedroom apartment overlooking a golf course here for 1.55 million baht, so in effect the price dropped more than 60% since it was purchased some six years ago; or perhaps Australian friends of mine who bought a penthouse apartment overlooking the sea here and paid 17 million baht for it and have only just sold it after two years of trying, for 11 million baht; and then again you could make an offer on one of the many two-bedroom townhouses in a small estate in Patong which were fetching around 5 million baht when sold, however some owners would take 3.5 million baht for them now.........
 
Sure there are regional variances, but from all of the reports I have read, and all of the things I have seen with my own eyes, there would appear to be many empty apartments, many resales at less than purchase price and a real estate market in which the "bigger fool" element comes into play!

Suckers born every minute
Countless got sucked into the scratchie win a free prize.. Just attend this meeting with free food and drinks to collect your prize!

Idiots! Your friends probably fell for it as did hundreds of thousands.

I wouldn't touch any seaside resort here.

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Suckers born every minute
Countless got sucked into the scratchie win a free prize.. Just attend this meeting with free food and drinks to collect your prize!

Idiots! Your friends probably fell for it as did hundreds of thousands.

I wouldn't touch any seaside resort here.

Whilst I agree with you about there are suckers being born every minute and those especially buying after the scratchy scam would fall into that category.

 

However not one of my friends bought via that route and I actually don't know anybody who has, although there are probably countless holidaymakers who have fallen for that ruse.

 

And of course none of the townhouse owners bought via that route, so although I agree in principle with a little of what you say, none of it applies to those examples which I have quoted.

 

 

 

 

[zorro1]

Whilst I agree with you about there are suckers being born every minute and those especially buying after the scratchy scam would fall into that category.
 
However not one of my friends bought via that route and I actually don't know anybody who has, although there are probably countless holidaymakers who have fallen for that ruse.
 
And of course none of the townhouse owners bought via that route, so although I agree in principle with a little of what you say, none of it applies to those examples which I have quoted.
 
 
 
 

Can you point me to one single thread in the last twenty years that is titled "Thailand is booming" and for it to have overwhelming positive response?
Of course you can't so everyone keeps losing on property at 30% a pop lol so we should be minus on all property.. You know, pay some one to take it.

I'm sorry for your buddy but there are suckers everywhere

[xylophone]

35 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Can you point me to one single thread in the last twenty years that is titled "Thailand is booming" and for it to have overwhelming positive response?
Of course you can't so everyone keeps losing on property at 30% a pop lol so we should be minus on all property.. You know, pay some one to take it.

I'm sorry for your buddy but there are suckers everywhere

Can't really see where you're coming from on this post or your reference to "my buddy" as I know many folk who have lost on property here.

 

My main point is that property in general, for the farang anyway, is not a good bet here and there are many threads which come to the same conclusion.

 

Sure there will be some people who have made on property and I am one of them and whether it was through shrewd buying and shrewd marketing or just luck, who is to say?

 

I suppose underlying all this is my conclusion that buying property in Thailand is a bit like buying in the wild West and there are many, many scams going on as well as lawyers who will advise on how to buy a property through the nominee company route, when setting up a company for the buying of property alone is illegal.

 

Then of course you have the salesman who will convince the unsuspecting novices that 90 year leases are the norm; that 7 to 13% returns are easily achievable and that resales will involve a capital gain, and so on.

 

The words of a property salesman here come to mind, when he said, "there is always some farang on the next plane who has money to spend and who knows nothing about the Thai property market and that sucker is the one that I am looking for", or words to that effect.

 

So are we talking the same language?

[funandsuninbangkok]

On 2/5/2017 at 7:36 PM, zorro1 said:

Can you point me to one single thread in the last twenty years that is titled "Thailand is booming" and for it to have overwhelming positive response?
Of course you can't so everyone keeps losing on property at 30% a pop lol so we should be minus on all property.. You know, pay some one to take it.

I'm sorry for your buddy but there are suckers everywhere

There is in fact no real "price" for property in Thailand.   Unit it stay vacant for years. Multiple brokers represent same units at hugely different prices. No central sales price database (land department does not count) and a press very dependent on property advertising. Mix in no financing, very transient population, poor construction and Soi dogs and you get Bangkok. 

 

Normal ad in  Bangkok  for property is rent it for 50,000 buy it for 20 million. Only an idiot would buy. 

 

Sleep better , rent. 

[blackcab]

6 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

 Normal ad in  Bangkok  for property is rent it for 50,000 buy it for 20 million. Only an idiot would buy. 

 

10 million.

[trogers]

10 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

There is in fact no real "price" for property in Thailand.   Unit it stay vacant for years. Multiple brokers represent same units at hugely different prices. No central sales price database (land department does not count) and a press very dependent on property advertising. Mix in no financing, very transient population, poor construction and Soi dogs and you get Bangkok. 

 

Normal ad in  Bangkok  for property is rent it for 50,000 buy it for 20 million. Only an idiot would buy. 

 

Sleep better , rent. 

I have started to see such low gross rental yields (3%) in recently built projects along Sukhumvit 24.

 

It's due to rising asking prices of new projects against stagnant or falling rents, and higher vacancy rates.

 

These indicators point to oversupply.

 

 

[madmax2]

Not interested in condos but we are interested in buying houses, of the many we have looked at only 2 were of any interest to us, on both we offered 30% under original asking  price and both offers were accepted, one we are proceeding to buy and the other we rejected because we were misinformed about the amount of estate fees, went from from 2500 baht per month as originally quoted by agent  to 10,000 baht a month which was unacceptable to us

Both houses were on offer from expats wanting to quit their assets in Thailand

If you have cash its a buyers market and lots more properties are coming on the market every week and will continue to in my opinion

 

[zorro1]

Not interested in condos but we are interested in buying houses, of the many we have looked at only 2 were of any interest to us, on both we offered 30% under original asking  price and both offers were accepted, one we are proceeding to buy and the other we rejected because we were misinformed about the amount of estate fees, went from from 2500 baht per month as originally quoted by agent  to 10,000 baht a month which was unacceptable to us

Both houses were on offer from expats wanting to quit their assets in Thailand

If you have cash its a buyers market and lots more properties are coming on the market every week and will continue to in my opinion

 

Bumping the price usually by around 20% is standard practice for astute sellers especially farang.

Doesn't mean you got a good deal because farang still got his full price

Motor dealers do the same thing, buyer thinks thet they screwed the dealer lol

[funandsuninbangkok]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

10 million.

Start at 6, get worked to 7.5. Takes a bit longer but more enjoyable. 

[madmax2]

19 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Bumping the price usually by around 20% is standard practice for astute sellers especially farang.

Doesn't mean you got a good deal because farang still got his full price

Motor dealers do the same thing, buyer thinks thet they screwed the dealer lol

You do not know the deal i got and i am not going to tell you

Been investing in real estate for 50 years and i am happy with our purchase if everything is above board which is being thoroughly checked now

Farang has not lost money because when they bought the exchange rate was a lot better than it is now, something like 20 baht per GBP, They will be changing the baht back into GBP to return it to the UK which means more GBP for the same amount of baht

Plenty of bumped prices around as you call them and no one is interested in buying them, they might as well bump them another 30% and keep dreaming

Farangs have been believing what agents who have no idea how to value a property tell them for years and now regret it, The agents just list at what ever inflated price the vendor tells them to

The agents do nothing for their fee the purchaser has to do title searches and everything else themselves, a lot should be selling time share in my opinion that's all they are qualified for

There is no screwing as you call it if a purchaser offers a price and vendor excepts that price

Its normal business practice , you sound like a frustrated RE agent 

[lkn]

1 hour ago, zorro1 said:

Bumping the price usually by around 20% is standard practice for astute sellers especially farang.

Doesn't mean you got a good deal because farang still got his full price

Motor dealers do the same thing, buyer thinks thet they screwed the dealer lol

20-50% discounts also seems to be the norm in most malls and department stores.

 

At the Chiang Mai night bazaar, one of the vendors also told me that all the sticker prices got bumped after the Chinese started coming there, as they all wanted to bargain about the price.

 

[zorro1]

You do not know the deal i got and i am not going to tell you
Been investing in real estate for 50 years and i am happy with our purchase if everything is above board which is being thoroughly checked now
Farang has not lost money because when they bought the exchange rate was a lot better than it is now, something like 20 baht per GBP, They will be changing the baht back into GBP to return it to the UK which means more GBP for the same amount of baht
Plenty of bumped prices around as you call them and no one is interested in buying them, they might as well bump them another 30% and keep dreaming
Farangs have been believing what agents who have no idea how to value a property tell them for years and now regret it, The agents just list at what ever inflated price the vendor tells them to
The agents do nothing for their fee the purchaser has to do title searches and everything else themselves, a lot should be selling time share in my opinion that's all they are qualified for
There is no screwing as you call it if a purchaser offers a price and vendor excepts that price
Its normal business practice , you sound like a frustrated RE agent 

No not frustrated RE just a sales trainer for 20 years with my own marketing company running major events for motor industry and real estate.. I know what I'm talking about.

Give you some free advice when you sell your house

1 . never make your genuine price be your retail price, load it! Those that don't make it really hard for themselves

2.drop the price in stages make the buyer think they are squeezing you

3.always give a reason eg repatriation fire sale is the most common but divorce is good

That's the pure basics, the actually selling and closing is a lot more complex

People want to think they got deep discounts and brag about it.. Infact what I've written summarizes your purchase, so the system works

Getting a discount does not mean you got a good deal. Bumping the price and then dropping it is still full price!

[madmax2]

Just now, lkn said:

20-50% discounts also seems to be the norm in most malls and department stores.

 

At the Chiang Mai night bazaar, one of the vendors also told me that all the sticker prices got bumped after the Chinese started coming there, as they all wanted to bargain about the price.

 

Price bumping goes on everywhere on everything if they can get away with it

30 years ago my parents who were from Australia were touring Ireland by coach

They were in a tourist outlet selling irish linen etc when they were asked by the owners of the business if they could hurry up with their purchases as a coach load of American tourists was about to arrive and they wanted to increase the prices on everything

True story

 

[madmax2]

5 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

No not frustrated RE just a sales trainer for 20 years with my own marketing company running major events for motor industry and real estate.. I know what I'm talking about.

Give you some free advice when you sell your house

1 . never make your genuine price be your retail price, load it! Those that don't make it really hard for themselves

2.drop the price in stages make the buyer think they are squeezing you

3.always give a reason eg repatriation fire sale is the most common but divorce is good

That's the pure basics, the actually selling and closing is a lot more complex

People want to think they got deep discounts and brag about it.. Infact what I've written summarizes your purchase, so the system works

Getting a discount does not mean you got a good deal. Bumping the price and then dropping it is still full price!

I think in my 50 years of buying and selling real estate successfully at a reasonable profit i know more than you in your 20 years, at one stage i had a business in the motor industry and got out of it because of the dishonest shonky dealers at the time who would lie about anything and everything to make a sale and call the purchasers wood ducks to their equally shonky mates

and i do not think the motor industry has changed much there always has been a few honest people involved in it

I buy when the market is right to buy and sell when the market is right to sell

There is always a buyers and sellers market in the majority of countries and it looks like its starting to happen in Thailand

[zorro1]

I think in my 50 years of buying and selling real estate successfully at a reasonable profit i know more than you in your 20 years, at one stage i had a business in the motor industry and got out of it because of the dishonest shonky dealers at the time who would lie about anything and everything to make a sale and call the purchasers wood ducks to their equally shonky mates

and i do not think the motor industry has changed much there always has been a few honest people involved in it

I buy when the market is right to buy and sell when the market is right to sell

There is always a buyers and sellers market in the majority of countries and it looks like its starting to happen in Thailand

"think in my 50 years of buying and selling real estate successfully at a reasonable profit i know more than you in your 20 years"

Not true to use your own words you were only reasonably good making "reasonable" profits.

Who wants to be just reasonablly good at anything

I made my fortune by teaching dealers how to maximize every single sale and still make the buyer love you

Reasonable was for those that want to stay average

[emoji4]

[madmax2]

30 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

"think in my 50 years of buying and selling real estate successfully at a reasonable profit i know more than you in your 20 years"

Not true to use your own words you were only reasonably good making "reasonable" profits.

Who wants to be just reasonablly good at anything

I made my fortune by teaching dealers how to maximize every single sale and still make the buyer love you

Reasonable was for those that want to stay average

I stopped work  at 62 years of age with sufficient assets to never have to work again and give substantialy to family members, millions of dollars not baht and if i wanted to buy and drive any type of vehicle and buy a ridiculously overpriced house in Thailand which i am not interested in doing, probably why i have money i am not interested in impressing any one unlike many sale people

How many millions of dollars in assets and money have you made by making a reasonable profit of other people, you do not know what reasonable profit means it seems

Of coarse i could be living in fantasy land like a lot of people who make claims on forums who have little or no assets

From personal experience and i do know very successful business people who have made fortunes in the automotive and real estate industry i have only met one i trust who is currently alive.

I know personally a person(brother) who has major interests in GM, Mazda, Honda, Subaru and Kai dealerships who has much more knowledge than you will ever have of the Automotive industry, Stopped buying vehicles from him about 30 years ago because i could easily get better deals elsewhere, typical lying scheming salesman i am sad to say 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, zorro1 said:

No not frustrated RE just a sales trainer for 20 years with my own marketing company running major events for motor industry and real estate.. I know what I'm talking about.

Ah yes a sales trainer in two industries which are infamous for shonky deals and cowboys........think I'll trust my own judgement and my experience with starting and building a $2 billion investment fund.

 

Lots of other good folk on here who know what they are doing and who haven't "come down in the last shower" like you think they have.

[zorro1]

Ah yes a sales trainer in two industries which are infamous for shonky deals and cowboys........think I'll trust my own judgement and my experience with starting and building a $2 billion investment fund.
 
Lots of other good folk on here who know what they are doing and who haven't "come down in the last shower" like you think they have.

Spoken like a true blue collar worker who thinks everyone involved with RE and The motor industry and sales are criminals and con men
You are a total idiot!

[xylophone]

9 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Spoken like a true blue collar worker who thinks everyone involved with RE and The motor industry and sales are criminals and con men
You are a total idiot!
 

Hmm... I didn't say that they are all that way inclined, however you would have a hard job convincing anybody that the traits regarding these two professions are not in abundance as I suggested.

 

Furthermore you can't read which may well be another trait of this profession because I don't know of many other "true blue collar workers" who have started and built a $2 billion investment fund, such as I have and I can prove it, but then again maybe I'm the exception.

 

And of course it's not professional to call people idiots, but then again perhaps that's in your nature and I'm sure your salespeople can learn a lot from you.........!

[OzJim]

Thanks for the advice, I'll probably still rent. My partner bought a house of the plan in a gated estate at Lampang. It has just been completed but it's mostly for the family to live in and when we go back to Thailand we can stay there. I'm in no real rush but if I retire I'd rather be close to the water than a remote area like Lampang.


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