hydro/aquaponic gardening

[carlyai]

Hello All,

Back again with a new Total Knee Replacement (fun fun fun) and greenhouse going up tomorrow. Plan A.

Think I'll do some hydroponics first before my aquaponics.

Will need advice.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Greenhouse nearly completed. Fairly happy with the construction and a good team who know what they are doing. Even got an apptentice working with the team of 5. Taken 5 half days.

I'm not too sure what the metal they are using is...looks like dipped steel box section. Nice stuff. Will enquire today.

I got them to put a few extra stays on the end walls to stop lateral movement. For me the footings could have been bigger and deeper and they only use 1 screw when screwing pipes together...I would have used 2.

Only worry is how it will stand up to the strong winds from the mountain range we get every wet season. Also the rain noise on the plastic roof.

Bought a new water tank and slipped it into its area before the greenhouse construction.

Seems like there is a hydroponic supply company for the hardware in KhongKean a few hours away.

Any suggestions?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[CLW]

Greenhouse nearly completed. Fairly happy with the construction and a good team who know what they are doing. Even got an apptentice working with the team of 5. Taken 5 half days.

I'm not too sure what the metal they are using is...looks like dipped steel box section. Nice stuff. Will enquire today.

I got them to put a few extra stays on the end walls to stop lateral movement. For me the footings could have been bigger and deeper and they only use 1 screw when screwing pipes together...I would have used 2.

Only worry is how it will stand up to the strong winds from the mountain range we get every wet season. Also the rain noise on the plastic roof.

Bought a new water tank and slipped it into its area before the greenhouse construction.

Seems like there is a hydroponic supply company for the hardware in KhongKean a few hours away.

Any suggestions?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

How many square metres and what was the cost of your greenhouse?

[carlyai]

HI, All finished now.

42 m2 and B 16800 plus Emroyharsip x 20, ice and 2 large Cokes. Wifèy also made them a meal.



Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[notagain]

Just a few ideas.

1. put down some gravel and cover with sand then top with some landscape fabric, you will have drainage problems where your gh is located and walking around in a muddy gh sucks and provides a perfect growth environment for bacteria and diseases.

2.Reinforce those corners with a 45 degree angle pipe, that is where your wind stress/load will be greatest.

3. I dont know what you are growing have some tables built with perforated tops for drainage, you can even stack them for vertical levels to increase production.

4. If you have power available hang some 18 inch fans for air movement, plants love it.

5. Remember the tighter the plastic the better

6. You might want to put in an RO water system to help in your plant nutrient uptake needs, they are not expensive if you build yourself, water is a key factor in good hydro growth. Link below to buy all the parts

7 Forget about aquaponics.

8. Maybe an overhead misting system depending on what you are growing.

 This where I buy my grow stuff, good selection and prices - http://www.higreenshop.com/

Water filter supplies - https://www.duan-daw.com/

[carlyai]

@notagain thanks for your reply and suggestions.

I'll get the gravel etc down. I think I need to kill of the grass first or it will grow through the gravel? Might put down some plastic to kill the grass first. What do you think?

Extra stay supports will do.

I've got a power box near the gh on the wall of the shed so an easy job to set up more power. I wired up the shed with my aquaponics in mind, so have one phase supply for the shed. At the moment it have my 2 hp pool pump and aquifer jet pump on the shed phase.

You can't see it, but the end room of the shed has my aquaponics gear stored there. I have 2 x 1000 L fish tanks, 4 growth beds on stands and my hydro clay growth media.

I initially wanted to do aquaponics, but thought later hydroponics would be easier, but now going ahead with my aquaponics. So I'll have the growth beds in the gh and fish in the cool shed.



Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[notagain]

Yes plastic is good for killing off the weeds, some say clear plastic works better. I would start out slow on the aquaponics as it really is a steep learning curve trying to get/keep the system in balance with everything involved and also put in a small hydro dwc system to have some production while you learn. higreen has some nice dwc units to grow greens that are basically foolproof. Getting too hot now for nft.

http://www.higreenshop.com/category/85/ชุดปลูกสำเร็จรูป

[Time to grow]

Carlyai, I wonder if by chance you are interested in selling some of your aquaponics materials? Contrary to "Notagains" sentiments, I am building an aquaponics set up in the Nakhon Sawan area. I have fish tanks but I might be interested in your grow beds and or the expanded clay media if your selling.

 

[carlyai]

@Time to grow I'm not interested in selling at the moment.

I am interested in keeping in contact with anyone in Isaan working with aquaponics.

I won't really be into my project till next year as I've got to get some back welding done in May.

I purchased my stuff from Aquaponics Thailand several years ago.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Carlyai, I wonder if by chance you are interested in selling some of your aquaponics materials? Contrary to "Notagains" sentiments, I am building an aquaponics set up in the Nakhon Sawan area. I have fish tanks but I might be interested in your grow beds and or the expanded clay media if your selling.
 

111a12q2aw

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Time to grow]

Carlyai, Thanks for getting back to me. I am using river rock for the time being but I would like to upgrade to expanded clay pellets if I can find them at a reasonable price. keep me in mind if you change your plans and good luck with the hydroponics in the mean time.

[notagain]

You might want to due a lime/calcium test on the river rock as it could wack your ph levels way out of balance. 

[notagain]

Carliyai - if you decide to use bell siphons in your grow beds this degign seems to be a winner.

 

[carlyai]

Carlyai, Thanks for getting back to me. I am using river rock for the time being but I would like to upgrade to expanded clay pellets if I can find them at a reasonable price. keep me in mind if you change your plans and good luck with the hydroponics in the mean time.

HI, I'm going mainly with the aquaponics but might have some hydro as well.
Went on a trip yesterday and found a little screen making shop in a market near Khong Kaen selling hydro tube beds and stands.
Also took so water from the aquifier to be analysed at the KK university. OK to get analysed but they want B 6000. I had my other aquifier sample analysed years ago for free. If you are on the same aquifier as me, you will probably have a high ferric content.
Can you PM me your address and I'll call in for a look one day.
We like visiting the different temples and I'm sure there are plenty round your area.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Carliyai - if you decide to use bell siphons in your grow beds this degign seems to be a winner.
 

HI, I was thinking of using the bell siphons and thanks for the new design.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[notagain]

Might as well buy something like this and you get 50 tests.

https://aquaponics.com/store2/aquaponics-water-quality-test-kit/

I would seriously consider the dwc system over the nft/hydro tube system due to the heat conditions here. dwc was developed specifically for the tropics. Kratky method is also a great system being so simple and foolproof. Remember the larger volume of water the easier it is to keep temps down.

http://aquaponicsnation.com/forums/  Lot of good read on here.

[Time to grow]

On 3/14/2019 at 7:26 PM, notagain said:

You might want to due a lime/calcium test on the river rock as it could wack your ph levels way out of balance. 

Notagain, thanks. In fact I did test a sample of the rocks before using them and found no appreciable change to the pH over several days. Nevertheless, I am now having difficulty with my pH slowly climbing day by day. This leads me to suspect either the sample I tested was not representative of the total or less likely, my sealed concrete DWC is raising the pH. I have about 1.5 cubic meters of media which would run over US$500 to replace with expanded clay and that's more than I can afford right now. I haven't found a source of expanded shale in Thailand but that should be more economical if you know of a source. Otherwise, I am open to suggestions if you have some.

 

My thinking at the moment is that if I can get the pH down to a reasonable level like 7 with phosphoric acid, hopefully the ever increasing volume of vegetation will help keep the pH down. It may be a fools errand without addressing the root cause but it seems like a reasonable compromise or experiment in the short term.

 

My system is filled with well water (on location) in the Nakhon Sawan province, near Salokbat. The well water has a pH of 7.0 and a hardness of 350 ppm.

 

A little about my system; It's about a 00 gallon system (CHOP) with two 500 gallon fish tanks, six flood and drain media beds, nearly 1000 gallon DWC and a sump. I started a fishless cycle Feb 1st 2019, started planting a few seedlings Feb, 23rd, added the first 50 Tilapia March 3rd. The fish seem to be doing good, mixed results on the seedlings probably due to high pH. The pH has climbed as high as 8.7. Currently the water tests as follows: This morning temperature of 27.8°C, pH 8.47, NH3 0.2 ppm, NO2 0.0 ppm, NO3 1.0 ppm, GH 13 dH, Water is very clear and fish look healthy and happy with water conditions.

 

Attached are three concurrent graphs of the water testing results over time.

 

 

[notagain]

Take a sample of your rocks put in a jar then fill with vinegar. It you get a lot of fizzing and bubbling then its going to be a problem. the initial ph test will not tell much as the lime/calcium will continue to leach out over time. Using coconut coir as a media is an option too as it is cheap.

[carlyai]

@Time to grow great read, got your system up and running. Well done.
When I bought the clay balls (shocking memory...hydroseal something like that) Robert from Aquaponics Thailand said (I think) that there were Thai brand/s but they didn't last as long as the ones he imported.

Have you checked for Thai brands? If not I could give him a ring and see where they are.

What did you do for your water sump drain? What did you make it out of?

I suppose there are non-food-grade containers that could be used, but can you paint them with special paint to make them food grade?






Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Time to grow]

3 hours ago, notagain said:

Take a sample of your rocks put in a jar then fill with vinegar. It you get a lot of fizzing and bubbling then its going to be a problem. the initial ph test will not tell much as the lime/calcium will continue to leach out over time. Using coconut coir as a media is an option too as it is cheap.

Notagain, Yes thanks, I did the vinegar test prior to using these river rocks. There were essentially no bubbles. Maybe the odd small individual bubble for the first hour or so but no bubble streams, fizzing, or any other form of appreciable bubbling. I also put a sample in water and measured the pH over several days to see if it changed and it did not. Thus I concluded the rocks were safe to use. Now that I have an issue with pH, I have concluded the test samples may not have been representative of the total. In other words, maybe I tested 500 rocks in the sample but one out of every 2000 rocks is limestone. Thus, not enough to show up in the sample but enough to alter the overall pH. Alternatively, maybe the rock is indeed okay but the concrete DWC is effecting the pH. There is some hair algae as well, not very much but around drain openings and along the sides of the floating rafts but it's pretty insignificant. For this reason, I am reluctant to spring for expensive Hydroton when the remedy is not conclusive. I am not very fond of throwing money at the problem until it's solved without some evidence to back up the theory.

[Time to grow]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

Robert from Aquaponics Thailand said (I think) that there were Thai brand/s but they didn't last as long as the ones he imported.

Have you checked for Thai brands? If not I could give him a ring and see where they are.

What did you do for your water sump drain? What did you make it out of?

I suppose there are non-food-grade containers that could be used, but can you paint them with special paint to make them food grade?

Carlyai, I sent you a message with my location that you may not have seen. Yes, I spoke to Robert. He didn't have any Hydroton in stock and it was cheaper for me to purchase it directly from China anyway. I received a quote from a retailer on Aliexpress for 1.25 Cubic meters of expanded clay, delivered, for US$500. I also spoke with the other Australian affiliated aquaponics retailer in bangkok but their prices were on par with Roberts. I did find a Thai source that was very reasonable but he only offered the pellets in very small diameter sizes. He said he was working on getting bigger ones but that was months ago and I gave up waiting.

 

Not sure what you mean by a sump drain. The sump is a food grade IBC tote partially buried below grade. The sump is drained by a 200W swimming pool pump that provides 18.75 gpm with the given head height. 

 

Sorry, i don't know anything about painting a container to make it food grade.

[notagain]

I would seriously research using chunk coconut coir for my media as its cheap and ph neutral. But yeah it could be your tanks leaching into the water affecting the ph. Im not against aquaponics but it is much more complex compared to hydro i have kinda shied away from it. What are you growing for plants ?

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/

https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/

http://aquaponics-forum.com/

[notagain]

7 minutes ago, Time to grow said:

Sorry, i don't know anything about painting a container to make it food grade.

Paint the outside to keep light out to stop any algae growth.

[Time to grow]

Notagain, I just have a few plants at the moment. Some tomato and broccoli seedlings that I happened to have extra of at the time. There was no more room in my raised soil beds so I thought I would try them out in the aquaponic media beds. The tomatoes (15 indeterminate) are growing like gangbusters. The broccoli (9) started off strong but are looking stunted compared to their soil based friends. the broccoli leaves are also beginning to yellow suggesting an iron deficiency which in turn is likely due to a high pH.

[Time to grow]

13 minutes ago, notagain said:

Paint the outside to keep light out to stop any algae growth.

Notagain, I don't have algae in my tanks. That was Carlyai asking about making them food grade. My algae is very light but it is in my concrete DWC. All of my tanks (except the DWC) are out of the sun as in buried or are opaque anyway. I only mentioned the algae because it is a potential source of pH shenanigans.

[notagain]

Again i dont have much exp. with aquaponics except working with some others doing it but I do know it helps to keep different plant species in different systems/tanks due to different nutrient uptake needs and different growth rates, but maybe this doesnt apply to aquaponics.

[carlyai]

'Not sure what you mean by a sump drain. The sump is a food grade IBC tote partially buried below grade. The sump is drained by a 200W swimming pool pump that provides 18.75 gpm with the given head height.'

Thanks again.

Yes an IBC tank would do the trick for my sump.




Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

@Time to grow

'Can you PM me your address and I'll call in for a look one day.
We like visiting the different temples and I'm sure there are plenty round your area.'

Yes I got that, thanks. We are a long way from you. I was thinking we were closer. I'd say you're in a different aquifier, or my water content will be different.
When I first put in the back bore, the water looked beautiful, but was full of iron that presipitated out when it came in contact with the air. Little pump leaks turned to rust marks. Also the shower started to get rust marks on the floor.
I ended up with a 3000l holding tank, the rust settles to the bottom, two large zircon and carbon filters (the big bottles) and one sediment filter. Then for the drinking water another multi-stage RO unit.
Tested the water and all good.
It has been a great investment as I top up the pool with the filtered water.
Also I have hear of people with high iron content water getting a stain mark on the outside of the house from the sprinklers.
Bit of a ramble on here.


Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Time to grow]

Carlyai, I do have very hard water but I havent noticed the issues indicating heavy iron deposits that you mention. From what I understand, which is pretty small, iron is desirable for aquaponics provided it's in a usable form. Usable to the plants that is. It sounds like most aquaponic practitioners add iron chelate to their water. I understand pH is a primary factor in determining if the iron in the water column is accessible to the plants or not.

[carlyai]

@Time to grow did you get your IBC container from one of those roadside places?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk