Filing for US Social Security from Thailand

[wpcoe]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

You don't apply online via your online account.

 

You apply at the online application webpage.

https://secure.ssa.gov/iClaim/rib

 

Don't confuse applying online with your online account....two different animals.

 

Of course.  How much sense would it make to apply online using one's online account?  Please forgive my lapse, I forgot for a moment we're dealing with a government agency.  (Forum smilies not working at the moment, or there would be an eye-roll here...)

[Dan5]

I have SS send my money to one of my USA bank accounts, but they can also send it to Bangkok bank. You can get a form for authorizing it at the US embassy or at Bangkok Bank.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Dan5 said:

I have SS send my money to one of my USA bank accounts, but they can also send it to Bangkok bank. You can get a form for authorizing it at the US embassy or at Bangkok Bank.

Or just call the info into the SSA.

[pmarlowe]

Did it all online a year ago. Used my Thai address for everything. Although I use a USA bank for direct deposits. That said. It can be done with a Thai bank as well -- although I found it a bit of a hassle with SCB since only one branch will arrange it for you. There are also time limits on medicare A and B (recommended if you do return to the USA for visits regularly as it covers a lot of stuff -- I have used it on my annual visits home.) Finally, unless you really need the cash, its best to wait until 66 or in your case it may be 67 as the money is more and helps to ameliorate the Medicare deduction. 

 

PS. the SSA people in Maryland are extremely helpful on all of the above. Worth a call to them if you have issues.

 

[landslide]

10 hours ago, stockmktgenius said:

Not to rain on your parade, but if you don't really need the money, you might consider waiting.  Each year you wait before 66, you get an extra 7 or so percent per year.  And each year after 66, you get an extra 8% - all for life!  Plus if you have a wife who'll collect in the future, she'll get extra too. 

 

So, for example, if you  were going to draw $1000 and you wait the 4 years to 66, you'd get $1280 per month for life.  Now, if you wait to 70, the latest you can wait, another $320 a year for life- around $1600.  That's a big difference, but then you didn't draw checks all those other years.  There's a book I'm reading on the subject that you might like called Get What's Yours: https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485336519&sr=8-1&keywords=get+what's+yours+the+secrets+to+maxing+out+your+social+security

Good luck!

Everything you said is accurate with possibly one exception.  If you wait until full retirement age, it will increase your wife's survivor's benefits at the time she files.  However, the increase is capped at full retirement age (in my case 66 years old).  Delaying past full retirement until 70 years of age will increase your check, but if your wife files as a survivor at full retirement, her benefits will be capped at the amount you received at 66, plus any COLA increases.

[craigt3365]

16 hours ago, BillyBob65 said:

I started the process online a few weeks and now cannot get back into the government's site. Every URL that is connected to SSA comes up with the message that the site is down. I have tried everyday and even different times of the day. I have tried trashing cookies, different web browsers (I use Chrome).....Nothing. 

 

So, be aware that there are problems with their website.

 

If anyone has any suggestions, please don't hesitate to respond.

 

16 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I couple of years ago I tried to change my address on the SSA website but could not. I called SSA and was told once my SSA account is setup, I can not access the SSA website from abroad for security reasons.

I have not tried to get on the SSA site since and don't know if this is still the case..

I had the same problem a few years ago when doing this for a friend.  Use a VPN and you're fine.  This problem has happened to me for several different US government websites.  Opera browser comes with a free built in VPN.

[Langsuan Man]

Never have to use a VPN to access my Social Security, just have to watch the clock and make sure I try and access it during US hours:

 

 

[louse1953]

16 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I couple of years ago I tried to change my address on the SSA website but could not. I called SSA and was told once my SSA account is setup, I can not access the SSA website from abroad for security reasons.

I have not tried to get on the SSA site since and don't know if this is still the case..

55;they have the best security you can have,don't contact us.Pathetic customer service.

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

55;they have the best security you can have,don't contact us.Pathetic customer service.

I had a major issue with them a few years ago.  Took forever to sort it out.  But, it was eventually sorted.  Not the best of customer service, but they did address the issue.

[avvocato]

19 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I would not do an SSA direct deposit to Bangkok Bank as you can only get those funds by going to the branch where you opened the account.

 ...

You can move funds from your SSA Bangkok Bank account to a "regular" account at ANY branch office. I've done this numerous times.

[Langsuan Man]

That's the point; YOU have to visit a branch to move funds. No Internet access, no ATM access

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[jmd8800]

Any idea of the time frame for the call? i.e. Once the application is received then the call comes a week or 10 days later?  That time frame may vary between offices I know.

 

The reason I ask is because my visit to USA will be short. It might be better to wait and apply when I return to Thailand in early April.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

That's the point; YOU have to visit a branch to move funds. No Internet access, no ATM access

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Once a month go to the bank and transfer it to another Bangkok Bank account that has an ATM/Debit card and internet banking. Not that big a deal.

I spend about 5 minutes a month to do it on average. I go to a small branch at Tesco here. Most of the time there is no wait just walk up to the counter and hand over my completed forms.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Any idea of the time frame for the call? i.e. Once the application is received then the call comes a week or 10 days later?  That time frame may vary between offices I know.

 

The reason I ask is because my visit to USA will be short. It might be better to wait and apply when I return to Thailand in early April.

 

Below are two posts that sums up my experience in using the Manila social security office who can take your application via phone and submits it to the Baltimore Office social security office which process/approves applications with addresses outside the U.S.  

 

First post takes applying through Manila...and second sums up the final approval.   Whole process took 49 days.

 

Lots of other posts in there thread talking about people's experience with Manila/submitting SS pension application.  Everybody's results will vary because each person's social security situation can be different.

 

 

 

[Rhys]

Will be doing this next year but will go to the USA for a visit..interesting thread.

[jmd8800]

Thanks for all of the replies. :-)

[oldcarguy]

if you take your SS at 62 years old it will take many years before you  are backwards ,

 

Plus you have to hope they do not change the rules somewhere in those years you are waiting , 

and probably many things will change in the next 4 - 8 years in the USA !

[jmd8800]

13 hours ago, oldcarguy said:

if you take your SS at 62 years old it will take many years before you  are backwards ,

 

Plus you have to hope they do not change the rules somewhere in those years you are waiting , 

and probably many things will change in the next 4 - 8 years in the USA !

I think the break even point is 75? I forget now. Looking at my family history and my present health.... 75 is big stretch.

 

Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I've my doubts that my private pension will around in 10-15 years. Two years ago Congress voted to remove the guarantees on my pension (part of ERISA 1974) which paves the way for Wall St to take it. They will.

 

Just remember: The people are broke, governments are broke, and banks/corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash. There are people who want my pension money and they will do anything they can to get it. If the last 30 years is any indicator of the future, then they will be successful.

 

So living in Thailand allows me to put more money under my mattress in case things go south.

 

 

[taxout]

Beware: if you delay taking Social Security, then you may end up paying more for Medicare Part B. If you're already on Social Security, then you're protected against Medicare Part B increases that exceed your Social Security cost-of-living increase. But there's no such protection if you're not taking Social Security yet. So up those premiums will go. And up and up.

 

Over the years I read lots and lots of propaganda touting the benefits of delaying Social Security. Not a word in there ever about the Medicare Part B gotcha.

[CaptHaddock]

4 hours ago, taxout said:

Beware: if you delay taking Social Security, then you may end up paying more for Medicare Part B. If you're already on Social Security, then you're protected against Medicare Part B increases that exceed your Social Security cost-of-living increase. But there's no such protection if you're not taking Social Security yet. So up those premiums will go. And up and up.

 

Over the years I read lots and lots of propaganda touting the benefits of delaying Social Security. Not a word in there ever about the Medicare Part B gotcha.

That's true, but it's an arithmetic question, not a matter of principle, isn't it?  Medicare Part B cost per month is $109 if you are currently collecting SS benefits or $134 if you are delaying.  So, the cost of delaying is an extra $25/month.  But the benefit is approximately %8/month when you hit 70 or decide earlier to collect.  In my case that is about 8% of $2200 or $176.  Since I am 67 I will be paying the extra $25/month for three years or a total of $900.  Three years from now I will be collecting a benefit that is 24% greater or about $528 more per month.  So I recover the $900 in about two months of increased benefit.  Not a tough decision to make.

 

Now, it is possible that Medicare will have further raises in the next three years, but it is unlikely to be of a magnitude that would make taking SS sooner a better deal.

 

Of course, the "break-even" analysis is the wrong way to evaluate the Delayed Retirement Credits of SS.  SS is insurance, not an investment.  But that distinction is too subtle for the class of analysts here on TV.

[wayned]

I started my SSA benefits on 1 January 2007.  They are deposited directly to my BBL account and have been from the beginning.  I have no US address or bank and have no need for one. You have to show up in person, not send a proxy, with a copy of your passport to either withdraw the funds or transfer them to another account.  The account that you have the funds deposited in is an owner account and you can not have an ATM or internet access other than to read the present balance.  I get an SMS when the funds are credited to my account, usually on the 3rd but sometimes after normal banking hours.  In the beginning I could only withdraw/transfer the funds at the branch where I had the account, a PITA, but that changed about 7 - 8 years ago and now you can do it at any branch but will have to by their commission, 20 baht plus 0.1% of the amount withdrawn. I go to the bank every month after I get the SMS with the withdrawal slip for the owner account and a deposit slip for a regular account tat has ATM and internet access.  A small branch in Takhli, usually in and out in 5 minutes.

 

As I said you must show up in person. the proxy on the back of the withdrawal form dose not apply.  When I was in the hospital I filled it out and sent my wife.  It was not accepted and she had to come back and get a letter from the doctor.  The next month I was out of the hospital but couldn't walk and sent her into the bank with the proxy.  Two officers actually came out to the car to check if I was still alive and have me sign a new withdrawal slip! I told them that I would have come in but they don't have wheelchair access, they just laughed it off and said no problem!

 

As far as Medicare is concerned, I don't pay for part B but carry the card, but don't know why.  Medicare is useless here and I haven't been to the US since 27 March 1998 and have no reason to return.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

I In the beginning I could only withdraw/transfer the funds at the branch where I had the account, a PITA, but that changed about 7 - 8 years ago and now you can do it at any branch but will have to by their commission, 20 baht plus 0.1% of the amount withdrawn. I go to the bank every month after I get the SMS with the withdrawal slip for the owner account and a deposit slip for a regular account tat has ATM and internet access.  A small branch in Takhli, usually in and out in 5 minutes.

 

 

I have a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account which I used to receive my military retirement pension for a few months...then I just had the payment go to my U.S. bank.  However, I still have that Direct Deposit account and use it occasionally.    It was opened at the branch on the ground floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in central Bangkok.   

 

I have never withdrawn any money from the DD account at that branch, but have at several other branches in western Bangkok....and I have never paid the 20 baht plus 0.1% commission you say you pay....it's treated just a a typical withdrawal....no fee.

 

You got a reference on the Bangkok Bank webpage for such a fee/commission?  Sounds like you may be getting hit with some type of inter-regional transfer/withdrawal fee....opened the account at one branch in another region but withdraw the funds in another region where you currently live/bank.   It's not a fee simply because it's a DD account.

 

P.S. Takhli sure has changed from the early 70's when I was stationed there...memories, memories.

 

 

[wayned]

It must be a provincial charge.  My account is in Takhli, Nakhon Sawan Province.  If I withdraw funds in Chainat, Chai Nat Province,the closest mall bank, on a Saturday I get hit with the charge.  If I withdraw funds at the mall bank in Nakhon Sawan there is no charge.  The same charge was applied when I was working in Pak Chong and Nong Chang when I withdrew/transferred funds there.

[JimmyJ]

On 1/24/2017 at 7:35 PM, WaywardWind said:

The bank I use in the US is PNC bank; they reimburse the 200 baht charge which is levied each time I use a ATM, and I have always found their exchange rates very close to the BB rates.

 

One issue that I considered, as I am older, is that if I were incapacitated and in the hospital, my wife could access the PNC account via the ATM and avoid the hassle of obtaining a PoA in order to access the funds at BB.

 

Like you say, to each his own.

" The bank I use in the US is PNC bank; they reimburse the 200 baht charge which is levied each time I use a ATM, and I have always found their exchange rates very close to the BB rates."

 

Does that mean that PNC charges no foreign ATM fee/no foreign transaction fee, and that the local Thai bank charges 200 baht for the ATM use and that is what PNC refunds?

A good deal if so.

[WaywardWind]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

" The bank I use in the US is PNC bank; they reimburse the 200 baht charge which is levied each time I use a ATM, and I have always found their exchange rates very close to the BB rates."

 

Does that mean that PNC charges no foreign ATM fee/no foreign transaction fee, and that the local Thai bank charges 200 baht for the ATM use and that is what PNC refunds?

A good deal if so.

Yes.

 

When I withdraw money from an ATM, there is the standard 200 baht charge added on top of the withdrawal by the Thai bank. When I look up my PNC statement, there is a reimbursement of the 200 baht in USD equivalent.

 

There are no other fees charged by PNC.

 

I've had this account for 20 years, and it has worked fine in the more than 30 countries where I have lived/worked/visited.

[JerseytoBKK]

On 1/25/2017 at 6:25 AM, kenk24 said:

I have seen the break even point listed at about 78 or so - I think... but I was wondering if that assumes that you will spend the money immediately. How do the figures skew if you invest the money? Even assuming a modest return? I have one stock account that earned 12.8% last year... 

If you don't need the money and can earn 5% after tax, then the breakeven happens at age 89! Taking the early retirement and letting investment funds appreciate in a IRA makes more sense to me. 

 

Simple example: earning $1,000/mo from age 62 to 66 means that the funds you didn't pull from a retirement account and earning 5% are actually worth $54,456.68 at age 66. This continues to earn interest. Add that interest to the lower monthly payout you're receiving and compare it to the higher payout if you wait until 66. The gap is small and eventually depreciates the value of the $54,456 down to zero at age 89. 

[1FinickyOne]

13 minutes ago, JerseytoBKK said:

If you don't need the money and can earn 5% after tax, then the breakeven happens at age 89! Taking the early retirement and letting investment funds appreciate in a IRA makes more sense to me. 

 

Simple example: earning $1,000/mo from age 62 to 66 means that the funds you didn't pull from a retirement account and earning 5% are actually worth $54,456.68 at age 66. This continues to earn interest. Add that interest to the lower monthly payout you're receiving and compare it to the higher payout if you wait until 66. The gap is small and eventually depreciates the value of the $54,456 down to zero at age 89. 

 

Thanks for doing the math - now I don't have to wonder anymore... glad I opted out early...

 

I assume that is not the investment Bailliwick of Jersey but closer to the Garden State, toll booth, Paramus, shopping mall, girls with make-up and big hair Jersey? 

[JerseytoBKK]

2 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

 

Thanks for doing the math - now I don't have to wonder anymore... glad I opted out early...

 

I assume that is not the investment Bailliwick of Jersey but closer to the Garden State, toll booth, Paramus, shopping mall, girls with make-up and big hair Jersey? 

I have yet to see an article mention the possibility of interest accrual between 62 and 66 but it's easy to calculate using free online calculators. Then use a different calculator for depreciating the amount you've accrued to make up for the SS payment differential. I was surprised that a conservative investment return of 5% pushed the breakeven to 89 but I triple checked the math.

 

Jersey as in lived all  over NJ but last 15 years in Ocean County. Planning to move to BKK later this year after I retire. Will be there again in 10 days for another 4 weeks. 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JerseytoBKK said:

If you don't need the money and can earn 5% after tax, then the breakeven happens at age 89! Taking the early retirement and letting investment funds appreciate in a IRA makes more sense to me. 

 

Simple example: earning $1,000/mo from age 62 to 66 means that the funds you didn't pull from a retirement account and earning 5% are actually worth $54,456.68 at age 66. This continues to earn interest. Add that interest to the lower monthly payout you're receiving and compare it to the higher payout if you wait until 66. The gap is small and eventually depreciates the value of the $54,456 down to zero at age 89. 

It's true the break even point would probably be in a person's late 80's if obtaining 5% investment interest (a big if the way financial market go up and down over the years) and say assuming an average annual  2% COLA on the pension.  However, that also means you must leave "all" your money in the investment until your late 80's which is not going to be possible or happen for many people because a person will probably need money to live on....and even if not really needing the money will want to spend at least some of it before passing away which will probably be before 89 years of age.   Like you said the key is "if you don't need the money", but people do need money and probably prefer to spend it before passing away.

 

I know I have created my own spreadsheets to do the calculation based on various early U.S. social security retirement ages (ie., 62 to 66) using a 2% COLA and 3% investment return and my breakeven point based on "my" social security amount would have been around 85.   But once again, that means not touching the entire investment amount until I reach that breakeven point....can't do that....need some money to live on....plus I just want to spend it versus trying to take it with me or leave it to someone.

 

For people on social security the breakeven point is generally around 78 based on numerous online calculators I've used and even my own Excel spreadsheet.

 

  Below webpage/article sums it up pretty well I  think and assumes people will be spending their early social security pension instead of not spending any of it....gotta buy groceries, pay bills, etc.   The red and blue line crossing point is the breakeven point.

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/10/if-i-wait-until-66-to-claim-social-security-when-w.aspx

Partial Quote Below

 

DATA SOURCE: SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.

Your Social Security breakeven point

If your full retirement age is 66 and you wait to claim Social Security until then, the total amount you receive from Social Security will eclipse the amount you would have received by claiming at age 62 when you're 78 years old.

For instance, let's assume Jim will receive $750 per month in Social Security income if he claims at age 62 or $1,000 if he claims Social Security at age 66. If Jim claims Social Security at age 62, he'll have received $45,000 in Social Security payments when he turns 66, $81,000 when he turns 70, and $126,000 when he turns 75. If he waits until 66 to claim, he will receive total payments of $60,000 at age 70 and $120,000 at age 75. It won't be until age 78 that the amount he gets in Social Security income eclipses the amount he would get if he claimed at age 62.

While this example offers a good estimate for when you would break even on your decision on when to claim, your precise breakeven point will vary depending on your exact full retirement age and the age at which you claim your Social Security.

The time value of money

Money that you hold in your portfolio today is worth more than money you'll receive in the future because that money can be invested to generate a return. Breakeven analysis doesn't take that time value of money into consideration, so it's less useful for people who don't need their Social Security income to pay for their day-to-day expenses.

Retirees with retirement income from other sources can choose to invest their Social Security payments, and depending on the return they generate from those investments, their breakeven point could be pushed back beyond their late 70s and into their 80s. For example, if Jim claims at age 62 and invests his $750 per month in Social Security in an investment that returns a hypothetical 6% per year and his friend Joe claims at age 66 and invests his $1,000 per month in that same investment, Joe's nest egg wouldn't eclipse Jim's in size until roughly age 82.

 

 

[JerseytoBKK]

Pib, the article you list doesn't include interest (investment return) except in the last paragraph and those numbers in the last paragraph aren't correct. Both of our calculations contradit that info

 

There are pros and cons to each decision and many variables that will impact the choice made. You calculated a very conservative 3% but long term investors with a diversified portfolio should be able to easily get a 5% return.  It shouldn't matter if the market goes up or down if the goal is an income stream, unless the market crashes and the stocks, funds or ETFs you pick cut dividends. But even in 2008-2009, there were S&P 500 stocks that didn't cut their dividends.

 

Also my calculations figured in withdrawing an amount from the savings starting at age 66 that would let me equalize the monthly payouts. Collecting at 62 works if a person can live off the SS and the income stream from an retirement investment account until they reach 66 at which time they can use SS, income stream and a small drawdown of principle.

 

The 2 big issues are inflation and currency exchange. If inflation goes to 5% or higher, the effective buying power can be greatly reduced in just 15 years, Then to maintain the 5% real return, investments would need to grow at 10% which would involve a lot more risk than a 5% return. Since the inflation rate is different in different countries, a SS COLA might not keep up to local inflation.  The other danger is what we're seeing with the Euro and Pound suffering large devaluations of their purchasing power. Same can happen to the dollar.

Edited January 29, 2017 by JerseytoBKK