Australian tourist stuck in Thai hospital after head-on collision, owing $56,000 in medical bills

[sioux2012]

The only issue she has with the insurance company, is no licence, giving her the benefit of the doubt, she wore a helmet, (probably wrong),
Everyone knows or should know that insurance is automatically void if you operate a motorized vehicle without the proper legal authorization anywhere. Reminds me, I bought medical insurance about 3 months ago..  The cover is immediately void if: I was is one of these and an accident should occur.... (Taxi, rental car, chauffeur driven mini van or car, public mini van, a privately chartered tour bus) ,, I'm guessing the insurer thinks that the operators of those vehicles have up to date insurance...(like to see that) covered are motorcycle taxis and tuk tuks....strangely

[Dan5]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

Kidnap for ransom scenario.... send in the SAS to rescue her.

My guess is that all they could do is withhold any further care. Though they might try to convince her otherwise.

[impulse]

3 hours ago, KevinCorr said:

You wouldn't catch me on a motorbike in Thailand. Was it he first day and she didn't know how it is. Basically suicide.

I'd be missing put on about 75% of what I can do in Thailand if I never got on a scooter.  And with no sidewalks and parked cars and trucks blocking the first lane, taking a scooter is often safer than walking in the area where I live in BKK.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Ride a bicycle, lazy people.  Your insurance covers you 100% on a bicycle.  

 

If you need help, get an "e-bike" a bicycle with battery power.  You can go for 60km on one charge.  

 

I did it last summer on Martha's Vineyard (an expensive island most Americans can't afford to visit) 

 It took me 6 months in Thailand to find an e-bike to purchase.  You figure the average tourist is going to be able to find one to rent?  

 

In 6 years, I can't recall ever seeing one available to rent.  Personally, I think there's a tremendous business opportunity for rental e-bikes, but I'm not foolish enough to believe I could make it work in Thailand as a single foreigner with no hiso wife to leverage family connections.  

 

Edit:  But even if I could rent an e-bike, or just a bicycle, I'd still check the policy very carefully.  Mile for mile, I suspect riding a bicycle is about as hazardous in Thailand as riding a scooter.  If you're old like me, you just don't ride as many miles when you have to pedal in the heat...

Edited January 28, 2017 by impulse

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

and everyone else should pay for your decision to live in an obvious flood plain?  The large US companies wouldn't have paid, either, unless you bought a costly flood insurance policy.

It wasn`t a flood plain at the time we moved there. Much of Chiang Mai was under water when the Ping river over flowed it`s banks, the highest on record. Many people lost their lives it was very bad. A lot of the centre of town was under 2 metres of water. The Dukes restaurant riverside branch was almost submerged, people were trapped on the roofs of their houses.

 

Hope I never see the likes of anything like that again.

 

http://www.mythailanddiary.com/?p=2505

 

 

[TerrylSky]

As a motor scooter and motorcycle rider, this is a wake up call. I need to get some insurance, have my attorney clarify conditions and proceed as safely as possible. The odds are not in my favor, thus it is prudent, needless to say to get "legal". I guess one needs to be alive however, to fight the scamming insurance companies and collect benefits. Think I'll have my lawyer set me up with a policy (and he's a good, honest lawyer). Thanks for the post.

[cyberfarang]

1 minute ago, TerrylSky said:

As a motor scooter and motorcycle rider, this is a wake up call. I need to get some insurance, have my attorney clarify conditions and proceed as safely as possible. The odds are not in my favor, thus it is prudent, needless to say to get "legal". I guess one needs to be alive however, to fight the scamming insurance companies and collect benefits. Think I'll have my lawyer set me up with a policy (and he's a good, honest lawyer). Thanks for the post.

If you own a motorbike you should all ready have the compulsory government insurance that covers medical expenses in case of an accident.  Every year when you go to renew your motorbike tax, the insurance policy is renewed with it and you should be given a copy of the policy when you collect the tax disk. The policy is printed in Thai, so get a Thai person to go over the policy with you and check what you`re covered for.

 

The wake up call should be, that riders are licensed to drive a motorbike, have the tax and government insurance in order, the bike passes it`s government inspection each year and the riders wear helmets at all times so the insurance does not have any excuses to not pay out.

[PJPom]

My last insurance policy from Australia had a page devoted to what they don't cover, very simple, very clear and bold print. Try telling people to read what they have just paid good money for, waste of breath. My usual comment is make sure your parents know how to set up a go fund me page because you will need it.

[max2u]

7 hours ago, fish monger said:

The insurance companies WANT YOU TO SCREW UP.....That's why the small print is small print. If you don't read it, which they pray you don't, then it relieves them of any responsibility for payment. Your policy is negated. The End.

 

Correct. Large print would sell fewer policies. The two legs of the insurance game being to sell more policies and pay out fewer claims. Somehow this escapes many ;-) 

[Zikomat]

2 hours ago, likewise said:

a 56.000$ bill at Krabi government hospital........knowing the place I cannot understand how they come up with such an amount ???

 

It works the same way as dealing with any kind of business without agreeing on the price of the service before getting that service. For example, you stop a taxi on Phuket (which never have a meter) and say you want to go to Patong. After arriving to Patong taxi driver is asking 1500 baht although you know the usual price is only 300 baht. What can you do? Not much. When it comes to the cases like in this thread (and the hospitals in common) - the woman did not have a chance to discuss the price of the hospital's service. Probably she was unconscious most of the time. And if so - why not 56.000 USD? She should be thankful they did not ask for 560.000 USD. Just a classic medical rip-off case!

[billybog]

it all boils down to one thing....she did not have a motorcycle license. she had to know if she couldnt ride a motorcycle in her own country.....why did she think she could in another country.  I am also assuming she didnt have an international drivers license....this would have shown she could not drive a motorcycle. The license has separate sections that need to be stamped for standard drivers license, motorcycle...CDL, and another I cant think of at the moment.  I cant even tell you how many times I have been stopped at roadblocks to check to see if my license is valid for what I am driving. Every time, I have the license to show that I am in compliance with Thai law.  This is on her..

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

After reading the full report I gathered that her insurance was voided because she didn't have an Australian motorcycle licence, which is necessary no matter where she rides motorcycles, even if they are not required in the country of travel.

 

In some states in Australia (SA, Qld [not sure about the other states]), you can ride a motor scooter up to 50cc on a car drivers licence.

Yes another valid point. Would she not require a license of some sort? I know things are out of whack here but well with money changing hands maybe the renter overlooked it. 

[max2u]

2 hours ago, Zikomat said:

It works the same way as dealing with any kind of business without agreeing on the price of the service before getting that service..

<snip>

 She should be thankful they did not ask for 560.000 USD. Just a classic medical rip-off case!

So true, and so variable between hospitals. I recall about 8 years ago banging up my shin with a pre-dawn mis-step into a concrete slit trench at market on mainland by Andaman, which over some days swelled to hematoma the size of a small fist. At government hospital back in Nonthaburi, I got excellent treatment, and after a typical walk-ins' wait of about an hour, was taken to doctor, then immediately to a surgery room to recline on a gurney, 5 minutes passed, the swelling betadine painted, then needle-anesthetized, lanced, drained, compression bandage applied, this done by attending physician and one nurse assisting, and after a bit of a little lie-down, was dispatched to hospital pharmacy, for antibiotics and analgesic meds for 10 days, then to cashier, where was exacted from me the sum of 1,100 bt. Thinking of typical Stateside rates, I departed with my farang's emulation of

Thai smile for job well done at a fine fee. But yes, caveat emptor  :-)

 

 

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 It took me 6 months in Thailand to find an e-bike to purchase.  You figure the average tourist is going to be able to find one to rent?  

 

In 6 years, I can't recall ever seeing one available to rent.  Personally, I think there's a tremendous business opportunity for rental e-bikes, but I'm not foolish enough to believe I could make it work in Thailand as a single foreigner with no hiso wife to leverage family connections.  

 

Edit:  But even if I could rent an e-bike, or just a bicycle, I'd still check the policy very carefully.  Mile for mile, I suspect riding a bicycle is about as hazardous in Thailand as riding a scooter.  If you're old like me, you just don't ride as many miles when you have to pedal in the heat...

Saw an e bike just yesterday in rawai.... and granny wasn't giving it much in the way of leg powered assistance ... but she was just as dangerous to other traffic as a slow wobbly scooter, and just as dangerous to herself by being on the road at all

 

i understand the idea has merit... a lot of merit... but bicycle paths need to be provided to actually make these a safe alternative, and there's simply not enough of them about.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

It seems like once they resliaze you aren't covered and are a deadbeat; they really crank up the billing.  This is done in America, too, likely to exageratevthe loss for tax purposes.  Not sure why a government hospital would be concerned, but they do show profit/loss.  There can be a lot of negotiating too.  Playing poor isn't a good strategy here, that is for sure.  But again, 56k for a train wreck of injuries and everyone says ripoff...36k for transport..no problem.  Her Imaging costs could have been 10,000 AUD.

[Fireyfish]

11 hours ago, BlindMagician said:

Unexpected?

 

The travel insurance stated she was not covered. So what is unexpected about that?

 

Driving on the wrong side of the road, and faces oncoming traffic head on. What is unexpected about that?

 

Choosing to use that mode if transport in a country that has the second highest road death rate, worse only in a war torn nation. It's easy to check this kind of state before planning your transport. So what's unexpected about that?

 

How much does it take before the injured are expected to take responsibility for their injuries, and not expect the readership to be sympathetic? A tourist ran off a cliff and broke both his legs...Sympathy? Bob was freely playing Russian roulette and blew his brains out...Sympathy? A tourist has no insurance for driving a motorbike, hires a motorbike in a country that has the 2nd highest rate of road deaths, goes onto the wrong side of the road and.....Sympathy?

Your lack of compassion is noted .... I have been hospitalized after a motor cycle accident on Koh Lanta ... my insurance company fully covered me ... whatever judgements you perfect beings make I prefer to help her by making a small donation to the crowd funding appeal .... be careful KARMA can bite hard.

[Thechook]

Not sure about thailand but in Australia when you register a vehicle you also pay an insurance fee.  This fee covers medical costs of those involved in a collision this includes tourists using rental vehicles also pedestrians who maybe struck.

[SaintLouisBlues]

4 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Not sure about thailand but in Australia when you register a vehicle you also pay an insurance fee.  This fee covers medical costs of those involved in a collision this includes tourists using rental vehicles also pedestrians who maybe struck.

Don't you also have to show a driver's license that you're approved to drive that class of vehicle?

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, BarnicaleBob said:

If you would have read the whole story, you would know that she had insurance but it did not cover her for driving a moped.  So her only mistake was to rent a moped without reading the fine print on her travel insurance policy

 

Well I read that it was invalidated as she does not have a motorcycle driving licence, but yes, many policies generally exclude motorcycle accidents too. She was at fault. A slight responsibility to local renters, as  I believe the rental outfits should confirm people actually do have motorcycle licenses before renting to them... that is rather a stretch for  Thailand as making money comes first.  If she did not have experience of riding a motorcycle, having a 14 year old on the back would make it dangerous and she could veer off course.

[SEEDGER]

Everything is hazardous in Thailand! Was it not just the other day and Italian was walking down beach road in Jomtien and a tree branch attacked him and killed him!

To be safe in Thailand you need an Armour suit, something similar to the Iron Man movie franchise!

[MadMuhummad]

10 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The charges see rather high for what is normal in Thailand. This is another issue of Insurance companies not being up front with coverage exclusions. 

Medical care is a human right and needs to be provided regardless of economic status. The countries of the World could solve this problem by providing universal coverage to its citizens no matter where that citizen is at the time. The countries would reimburse each other for medical costs that are reasonable and fair. This would eliminate the need for insurance companies and get profit making out of the medical industry.

Until the above happens if it ever does- Thailand could simply add 20-50 Baht onto each ticket sold to Thailand and create a medical fund to pay the costs of medical care. Since there are about 30 Million 'tourists' who come to Thailand each year- that would create a sizable fund.

The mindset by the medical establishment must change-  doctors take the hippocratic oath and hospital owners/administrators/managers need to be held accountable when they start putting money ahead of a person's life or treatment.

 

Which would be another burden in already stretched resources in a large majority of countries not to mention for it to be ope to rotting, over charging etc.

and then where does it stop? Countries ring responsible for reimbursing missed flights, baggage losses/stolen, personal liability. It would be a massive minefield to say the least.

Why is is such a stretch for people to take responsibility for themselves when choosing to leave the protection of the their country where their rights are protected? Everyone needs to stop expecting someone other than themselves to start taking care of them. 

Mad for money ahead of a persons life: was she not treated? Is she not being cared for and recovering?

[MadMuhummad]

1 minute ago, SEEDGER said:

Everything is hazardous in Thailand! Was it not just the other day and Italian was walking down beach road in Jomtien and a tree branch attacked him and killed him!

To be safe in Thailand you need an Armour suit, something similar to the Iron Man movie franchise!

Everything is hazardous everywhere. Bad things happen, and quite regularly. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by MadMuhummad

[SEEDGER]

Hey Mad,

you are so right!

[MadMuhummad]

54 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Not sure about thailand but in Australia when you register a vehicle you also pay an insurance fee.  This fee covers medical costs of those involved in a collision this includes tourists using rental vehicles also pedestrians who maybe struck.

And a fantastic system it is. People continually complain of the cost ($450 compulsory insurance plus around $270 to register a passenger vehicle) but I can't talk it up enough. 

[MadMuhummad]

2 hours ago, Fireyfish said:

Your lack of compassion is noted .... I have been hospitalized after a motor cycle accident on Koh Lanta ... my insurance company fully covered me ... whatever judgements you perfect beings make I prefer to help her by making a small donation to the crowd funding appeal .... be careful KARMA can bite hard.

How does karma come into it? 

[BlindMagician]

2 hours ago, Fireyfish said:

Your lack of compassion is noted .... I have been hospitalized after a motor cycle accident on Koh Lanta ... my insurance company fully covered me ... whatever judgements you perfect beings make I prefer to help her by making a small donation to the crowd funding appeal .... be careful KARMA can bite hard.

A truck in the face can bite harder.

[lvr181]

14 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Methinks they should make the fine print a little bigger and especially "not cover when riding a motorbike part" It is such a big feature that insurance sellers should really take a sec and point this out to prospective policy buyers and travelers.

When contemplating buying insurance cover it pays to first look at what the insurance DOES NOT cover. Then consider if it meets your needs. "Self insurance" can be an expensive exercise.

 

Hope she has complete recovery, but quickly gets out of Thailand back to her own country's hospital.

[manarak]

2 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

When contemplating buying insurance cover it pays to first look at what the insurance DOES NOT cover. Then consider if it meets your needs. "Self insurance" can be an expensive exercise.

 

Hope she has complete recovery, but quickly gets out of Thailand back to her own country's hospital.

in many cases, it is

1- not possible to get a clear summary of coverage and exclusions

2- not possible to compare insurances and also

3- not possible to find insurance policies that offer the required cover.

 

the whole insurance-cover-abroad thing is very frustrating, even for intelligent and informed persons.

[lvr181]

8 minutes ago, manarak said:

in many cases, it is

1- not possible to get a clear summary of coverage and exclusions

2- not possible to compare insurances and also

3- not possible to find insurance policies that offer the required cover.

 

the whole insurance-cover-abroad thing is very frustrating, even for intelligent and informed persons.

I guess your points depend in what country you are arranging the insurance, but (see below for my country) for a policy I recently purchased it seemed quite clear as to the terms and conditions: (reproduced here):

 

This policy has been issued on the basis that if travelling to the Americas or Africa, and you have ever been diagnosed

with a heart condition, a lung condition (other than Asthma if you are under 60 years) or reduced immunity, you have

gone through our medical assessment process and we have agreed to provide a policy.

travel details

Area of Travel: UK and South East Asia

Country Most Time Spent in: Thailand

Travel Start Date:

Travel End Date:

cover details

Excess Chosen: $100.00

Specified Luggage No

Increase Rental Car Insurance Excess By: No

Motorcycle / Moped Riding Cover*: No

Snow Skiing, Snowboarding and Snowmobiling Cover: No

Existing Medical / Pregnancy Cover No

* If covered, conditions apply e.g. the engine capacity must be 200cc or less and you must be wearing a helmet.

amount paid

Base Premium: $187.00

Total Amount Paid: $187.00

Total GST Included: $0.00

Total Stamp Duty Included: $1.66

emergency assistance

When calling for emergency assistance, please have a contact number we can call you back on.

USA / Canada: 1855 802 3393 NZ: 0800 284 343 UK: 0800 096 8819

Other countries: Call Australia reverse charge via the operator on +61 (2) 8907 5647

 important information

This policy has been issued on the basis that you have received the Combined FSG and PDS, have agreed to

receive updated travel advice, and have answered our questions accurately and completely. When you receive this

document please refer to post.com.au for important notices and travel advice that may affect your policy. Please

check the information contained in this certificate is true and correct, if this is not the case the policy may be invalid.

Please contact Australia Post Travel Insurance immediately to update the information.

Please note that this policy has some limitations and exclusions. Please refer to the Product Disclosure Statement

for full details. Some of the exclusions include:

There is no cover for motorcycling/moped riding unless the additional premium is paid.

There is no cover for skiing, snowboarding or snowmobiling unless the additional premium is paid.

There is no cover for luggage or personal effects left unattended in a public place.

This policy does not automatically cover claims directly or indirectly arising from, or exacerbated by all existing

medical conditions. Please refer to the Product Disclosure Statement for more information about what the policy

covers in relation to existing medical conditions.

 

HTH - Just read what you maybe  buying 

[manarak]

1 minute ago, lvr181 said:

I guess your points depend in what country you are arranging the insurance, but (see below for my country) for a policy I recently purchased it seemed quite clear as to the terms and conditions: (reproduced here):

 

This policy has been issued on the basis that if travelling to the Americas or Africa, and you have ever been diagnosed

 

with a heart condition, a lung condition (other than Asthma if you are under 60 years) or reduced immunity, you have

 

gone through our medical assessment process and we have agreed to provide a policy.

 

travel details

 

Area of Travel: UK and South East Asia

 

Country Most Time Spent in: Thailand

 

Travel Start Date:

 

Travel End Date:

 

cover details

 

Excess Chosen: $100.00

 

Specified Luggage No

 

Increase Rental Car Insurance Excess By: No

 

Motorcycle / Moped Riding Cover*: No

 

Snow Skiing, Snowboarding and Snowmobiling Cover: No

 

Existing Medical / Pregnancy Cover No

 

* If covered, conditions apply e.g. the engine capacity must be 200cc or less and you must be wearing a helmet.

 

amount paid

 

Base Premium: $187.00

 

Total Amount Paid: $187.00

 

Total GST Included: $0.00

 

Total Stamp Duty Included: $1.66

 

emergency assistance

 

When calling for emergency assistance, please have a contact number we can call you back on.

 

USA / Canada: 1855 802 3393 NZ: 0800 284 343 UK: 0800 096 8819

 

Other countries: Call Australia reverse charge via the operator on +61 (2) 8907 5647

 

 important information

 

This policy has been issued on the basis that you have received the Combined FSG and PDS, have agreed to

 

receive updated travel advice, and have answered our questions accurately and completely. When you receive this

 

document please refer to post.com.au for important notices and travel advice that may affect your policy. Please

 

check the information contained in this certificate is true and correct, if this is not the case the policy may be invalid.

 

Please contact Australia Post Travel Insurance immediately to update the information.

 

Please note that this policy has some limitations and exclusions. Please refer to the Product Disclosure Statement

 

for full details. Some of the exclusions include:

 

There is no cover for motorcycling/moped riding unless the additional premium is paid.

 

There is no cover for skiing, snowboarding or snowmobiling unless the additional premium is paid.

 

There is no cover for luggage or personal effects left unattended in a public place.

 

This policy does not automatically cover claims directly or indirectly arising from, or exacerbated by all existing

 

medical conditions. Please refer to the Product Disclosure Statement for more information about what the policy

 

covers in relation to existing medical conditions.

 

 

 

HTH - Just read what you maybe  buying 

 

so what happens when you try to turn that motorcycle riding cover into a "YES" ?