UK concerned about giving data on Rolls-Royce bribes: Prayut

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UK concerned about giving data on Rolls-Royce bribes: Prayut
By The Nation

 

Prayut

 

BANGKOK: -- The UK’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has expressed concern about providing official documents on Rolls-Royce bribery cases to Thai authorities due to differences in the two countries’ legal systems, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has said.

 

He added that both providers and recipients of bribes would be guilty under Thai law. 

 

In the Rolls-Royce cases, the British company reached a deferred prosecution agreement with UK authorities regarding the commission of bribes, some of which allegedly involved Thai government officials and corporate staff, regarding offences relating to a conspiracy to corrupt and the failure to prevent bribery.

 

The UK engine-maker faced a fine of more than US$800 million (Bt28.2 billion) in relation to offences committed in Thailand, Indonesia, India and other countries. 

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30305313

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-01-31

[halloween]

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

[kannot]

is it me or does that photo show a simpleton?

[ukrules]

I would have thought that this is an issue we could learn to ignore for the benefit of the nation (my nation).

[plachon]

Should raise serious questions about the SFO's commitment to transparency and accountability, as well as seeking justice in this case. UK should be setting a example here of good corporate governance, but seems they might be protecting some sleazebags in high places, all for keeping face. That Prayut has to be the one who outs them, says a lot about official and corporate corruption on both sides. 

[harada]

Is that a THANKYOU wai. 

[rkidlad]

Well, if the UK are concerned, what can you do? Nothing, I guess. Gosh darn it. Case closed. 

 

OR, you could come out with a strong statement and say you will find and prosecute those involved. Use article 44 to change the law about time limits. Show your power and how you're serious about clamping down on corruption, and want equality for all. 

 

But the UK are concerned so there's really nothing you can do, right? Pathetic. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by rkidlad

[Thechook]

I think it is the proposed death penalty for corrupt officials is what concerns the U.K.  Prayuth looks very happy, maybe his name was on the list.  Doubt he would be executing any of his mates tho whilst there are plenty of opposition players out there.

[Brer Fox]

1 hour ago, kannot said:

is it me or does that photo show a simpleton?

Sure does. That photo gives the impression there could be a couple of chromosomes missing. Or he is on something that is known for making people smile in a dopey manner.

[colinneil]

Photo reminds me of spitting image sketch the presidents brain is missing.

[SABloke]

I think it is the proposed death penalty for corrupt officials is what concerns the U.K.  Prayuth looks very happy, maybe his name was on the list.  Doubt he would be executing any of his mates tho whilst there are plenty of opposition players out there.

Well I'm gonna put on my tinfoil hat and say you might actually be onto something.

It is highly likely that top officials got wind of this investigation (which has gone on for a long time) and proposed making the death penalty law, which they knew would make it very difficult for British officials to point fingers at individuals. 1 Billion baht sounds like a lot, but in corporate terms $30 Million is not such a big number and some officials quite possibly received that much.

[Thailand]

It is likely that at least some of the current govt are involved in this but as they gave themselves blanket amnesty it is irrelevant. Simply need to find a scapegoat(s) that do not fall in to that category or simply ignore it.

[futsukayoi]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

 

Thai bashers please note, it is not just in Thailand where HiSo culprits are above the law.

[ChrisY1]

This guys just softening up everyone so that this issue goes away.

Already, there's little reporting in the english language newspapers.....it should be small column, page 3 by next week.

All this could blow up if the Thai people weren't so complacent....billions of baht into the pockets of the chosen few, and not a word from the populace!

The media is obviously just so scared of saying anything...for fear of being spoken to harshly by the junta.....further exposing their spineless manner!

 

[maoro2013]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

Very true.

 

I am Australian and a company director. The rules are clear, even should I become involved in any form of bribery, even overseas, where I mainly worked, I would be subject to prosecution in Australia.

 

I am not too sure what the British have to concern themselves with, the English involved would not be subject to Thai law.

[jonclark]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

 

Not so sure about that Rolls Royce paid a 28.3 billion baht fine. So they clearly have been prosecuted and fined for their actions.  The bribery case focuses on the use of agents to secure the contracts - the agents paid a kickback to the customer and I'd like to know who RR agents in Thailand are.....RR has admitted the use of agents was irresponsible and paid the fine accordingly. The agents though are laughing all the way to the bank. 

[JAG]

Very true.

 

I am Australian and a company director. The rules are clear, even should I become involved in any form of bribery, even overseas, where I mainly worked, I would be subject to prosecution in Australia.

 

I am not too sure what the British have to concern themselves with, the English involved would not be subject to Thai law.

I am pretty sure that the UK has a policy of not extraditing to, or otherwise engaging with, jurisdictions which have the death penalty, in cases which may result in the death penalty being imposed. As someone has already suggested the recent proposal to impose the death penalty for major corruption offences will stop any further UK involvement. Jolly convenient...

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, jonclark said:

 

Not so sure about that Rolls Royce paid a 28.3 billion baht fine. So they clearly have been prosecuted and fined for their actions.  The bribery case focuses on the use of agents to secure the contracts - the agents paid a kickback to the customer and I'd like to know who RR agents in Thailand are.....RR has admitted the use of agents was irresponsible and paid the fine accordingly. The agents though are laughing all the way to the bank. 

Come off it! RR are innocent because they hired agents to do their dirty work? Who authorised the payments, Noddy or Big Ears?

Wealthy company directors have their company pay a fine, poor people go to jail.

[maoro2013]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

I am pretty sure that the UK has a policy of not extraditing to, or otherwise engaging with, jurisdictions which have the death penalty, in cases which may result in the death penalty being imposed. As someone has already suggested the recent proposal to impose the death penalty for major corruption offences will stop any further UK involvement. Jolly convenient...

Yes, well we don't know the whole story about who exactly was involved, but I understand your statement.

 

Also I like your little quote beneath your message, it makes Google irrelevant in your case.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, futsukayoi said:

 

Thai bashers please note, it is not just in Thailand where HiSo culprits are above the law.

 

Other countries also do not stage coup and announced that they did that to rid corruption. 

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

I am pretty sure that the UK has a policy of not extraditing to, or otherwise engaging with, jurisdictions which have the death penalty, in cases which may result in the death penalty being imposed. As someone has already suggested the recent proposal to impose the death penalty for major corruption offences will stop any further UK involvement. Jolly convenient...

The question isn't whether they are prepared to extradite (based on some proposed legislation) but whether they will name those involved who have been given a Get Out of Jail with a Fine paid by the Company card.

Other countries without death penalty are involved, RR executives have broken their laws as well.

[chainarong]

2 hours ago, plachon said:

Should raise serious questions about the SFO's commitment to transparency and accountability, as well as seeking justice in this case. UK should be setting a example here of good corporate governance, but seems they might be protecting some sleazebags in high places, all for keeping face. That Prayut has to be the one who outs them, says a lot about official and corporate corruption on both sides. 

Just how are the SFO going to prosecute the so called sleazebags in high places , Rolls Royce has already been pulled over the coals from the UK end , how are they going to do the same in Thailand, good governance from Thailand , Indonesia,  India ,etc,  is the next step, wouldn't you say..

Edited January 31, 2017 by chainarong

[greenchair]

It seems the new death penalty law for corruption will have an unexpected side effect that prevents any international organisation giving evidence of corruption in Thailand. 

Or maybe it was an expected bonus. ???

[George Graham]

3 hours ago, kannot said:

is it me or does that photo show a simpleton?

That picture paints a thousand words and none of them are flattering.

[mtls2005]

The UK’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has expressed concern about providing official documents on Rolls-Royce bribery cases to Thai authorities due to differences in the two countries’ legal systems, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has said.

 

Obviously a quote from an SFO official would be a lot more, what's the word I'm looking for, believable.

 

Looks like they've found that gigantic broom, and huge carpet they're looking for. Sweep, sweep, nothing to see here.

 

Kudos on this "excuse".

 

Much nicer than painting over the TG logo with black paint, although that probably remains on the table?

Edited January 31, 2017 by mtls2005

[jonclark]

38 minutes ago, halloween said:

Come off it! RR are innocent because they hired agents to do their dirty work? Who authorised the payments, Noddy or Big Ears?

Wealthy company directors have their company pay a fine, poor people go to jail.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

 

Just stating that they have paid the fine. Now whether a 28 billion baht fine is a deterrent or justice is debatable. And given that the the offences occurred between 1991 - 2006, the directors who authorised some of these payments, especially the early once could well be dead.

 

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/sfo-v-rolls-royce.pdf

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, plachon said:

Should raise serious questions about the SFO's commitment to transparency and accountability, as well as seeking justice in this case. UK should be setting a example here of good corporate governance, but seems they might be protecting some sleazebags in high places, all for keeping face. That Prayut has to be the one who outs them, says a lot about official and corporate corruption on both sides. 

I think it's better not to provide these details ... in many overseas countries corruption is endemic and the sole purpose of seeking political positions is to get on board the gravy train. You are only providing the opportunity for political vindictiveness by releasing this information ... they are all in on it.

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think it's better not to provide these details ... in many overseas countries corruption is endemic and the sole purpose of seeking political positions is to get on board the gravy train. You are only providing the opportunity for political vindictiveness by releasing this information ... they are all in on it.

Criminals should be given a free pass, including keeping their illegal gains, to avoid "political vindictiveness"?? Really? 

Do you think it might aid reconciliation too?

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, maoro2013 said:

Very true.

 

I am Australian and a company director. The rules are clear, even should I become involved in any form of bribery, even overseas, where I mainly worked, I would be subject to prosecution in Australia.

 

I am not too sure what the British have to concern themselves with, the English involved would not be subject to Thai law.

Was it just English people involved? 

[AlexRich]

Just now, halloween said:

Criminals should be given a free pass, including keeping their illegal gains, to avoid "political vindictiveness"?? Really? 

Do you think it might aid reconciliation too?

 

How cooperative are the Thai's when UK, US and Australian citizens are being ripped off by boiler room scammers based in Thailand, or when their citizens are murdered or extorted here? Do you think that the information would be used justly? My guess is that it would be used selectively ... opponents of the state hung out to dry but others left untouched. The idea that you would change anything is laughable.