Any way to avoid chaos? Changing employers with awkward boss.

[protectyourcultures]

I recently discovered that my employer plays silly beggars if teachers leave while under contract. He hates it when someone leaves for another school, it seems. Like really hates it in a 'I want to screw with your life' kind of way. I have a few months left on mine, and have a work permit. My employer keeps the work permit in his office and refuses to let any of his 10+ foreign teachers take them home. He says it's the law (that the work permits must stay at the school). The other teachers seem to say that this is true, but I'm not sure.

 

Anyway, another school are interested in me. I'm interested, for certain. Especially after other employees told me that the boss refuses to provide dates of leaving and withholds the WP if you need it to cancel it (for a new job). So, in essence, if I were to take up a new job and my employer refused to give me my work permit back or provide a letter stating the date I finished, can I leave my job or am I trapped like some kind of slave?

[allane]

My experience was in 1996, but I would venture to say that nothing has changed. Employer No. 2 had no problem getting me a Work Permit, even though Employer No. 1 refused to give me my Work Permit when I left. Simply tell Employer No. 2 the facts, he should be able to do the rest.

[FrankThai]

You signed a contract agreeing to work for a certain amount of time. 

 

How about this, instead of violating what you agreed to, how about you be honorable and hold to your agreement.

[protectyourcultures]

5 minutes ago, FrankThai said:

You signed a contract agreeing to work for a certain amount of time. 

 

How about this, instead of violating what you agreed to, how about you be honorable and hold to your agreement.

And how about you try and stay OT instead of judging someone?  If you had a job (I doubt that tbh) and another employer offered you double the salary with more benefits, would you stay? Really? Even after your current job proves not to be what was promised at interview in terms of leave etc?  BTW, there are many other reasons as to why I and a few others are considering leaving, but that's not the point of my post. K?

 

I was hoping for some relevant visa/WP advice, but sadly it seems this place is infested with cantankerous, judgemental types like yourself.

 

 

[jacko45k]

Blimey, I would give you your WP back, in several pieces!

[ubonjoe]

Your employer has no legal right to hold your work permit since it issued in your name. There is no rule that it has to kept at the work place only that it has to be there if you are present and working.

You should be able to cancel you work permit without the book or your employers consent.

Some immigration offices will cancel the extension with the work permit cancellation receipt.

You can also leave the country without a re-entry permit that makes you extension in valid. Then get a new non-b visa at a embassy or consulate.

Writing and submitting your resignation cover you if you have problems later.

[mstevens]

What about simply reporting the work permit lost at the Labour Office and explaining that you've resigned from that job and ask for the work permit to be cancelled?  I imagine they would be happy to do that and then issue you with the cancellation slip and you could get on with your life.

 

I would, however, fulfil your contractual obligations to your current employer so if you have a minimum notice period that is what I would give.  If it is 2 weeks or a month ,or whatever, give that to your employer in writing.

[AlQaholic]

40 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Your employer has no legal right to hold your work permit since it issued in your name. There is no rule that it has to kept at the work place only that it has to be there if you are present and working.

You should be able to cancel you work permit without the book or your employers consent.

Some immigration offices will cancel the extension with the work permit cancellation receipt.

You can also leave the country without a re-entry permit that makes you extension in valid. Then get a new non-b visa at a embassy or consulate.

Writing and submitting your resignation cover you if you have problems later.

What UbonJoe said, Workpermit has to be with you at your  place of work, not the directors. I have on several occasions been raided by labor officials and immigration at my place of work, where they have asked to see my work permit, luckily I had it with me at every occasion. If not you will be fined I believe.

[thesetat2013]

And how about you try and stay OT instead of judging someone?  If you had a job (I doubt that tbh) and another employer offered you double the salary with more benefits, would you stay? Really? Even after your current job proves not to be what was promised at interview in terms of leave etc?  BTW, there are many other reasons as to why I and a few others are considering leaving, but that's not the point of my post. K?

 

I was hoping for some relevant visa/WP advice, but sadly it seems this place is infested with cantankerous, judgemental types like yourself.

 

 

First! You may wish to stay at your old job because the new one may require their teachers to actually write English properly if they plan to teach it. Second! By law your work permit must be at the place you are working. This doesn't necessarily mean with your employer. You are only required to have it with you while at work in case immigration comes a knockin.

Third! If you leave your job, your visa and your work permit are cancelled and you have only a few days to leave Thailand or change visa to a tourist visa. If the school doesn't notify and cancel your visa and work permit, you can go do it yourself at the immigration office.

If you leave your current job. You must go outside of Thailand and secure a new non-b visa and then the new school will apply again for a new work permit.

Good luck in whatever your Ventures are in Thailand.

I suspect that, if the new school is willing to hire you even though they know you are under a different contract, they will be just as willing to fire you and hire a better educated employee in the future.

[blackcab]

You don't need to hand in your old work permit to get a new work permit. Instead you sign a simple form cancelling the old work permit.

 

At any point you can apply for a replacement work permit - however the cost is the same as the original purchase price. 3,000 baht in most cases.

[FritsSikkink]

13 hours ago, protectyourcultures said:

And how about you try and stay OT instead of judging someone?  If you had a job (I doubt that tbh) and another employer offered you double the salary with more benefits, would you stay? Really? Even after your current job proves not to be what was promised at interview in terms of leave etc?  BTW, there are many other reasons as to why I and a few others are considering leaving, but that's not the point of my post. K?

 

I was hoping for some relevant visa/WP advice, but sadly it seems this place is infested with cantankerous, judgemental types like yourself.

 

 

And by people who's agreement means nothing to them and only think about themselves.

[dentonian]

6 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

And by people who's agreement means nothing to them and only think about themselves.

From the OP's post it appears the school haven't stuck to their agreement.

In the Land Of Scams, you look after No1.

[ThailandLOS]

As stated, no issues with cancelling the WP even if you are not in possession of the document.

 

Best in your case would be to clear your new extension of stay within the stipulated 7 days after cancellation - however this would require maximum cooperation from your new employer, and would save you a trip out of the country and the hassle of applying for a new non-B.

 

Totally appreciate your situation - best of luck.

[elgordo38]

17 hours ago, allane said:

My experience was in 1996, but I would venture to say that nothing has changed. Employer No. 2 had no problem getting me a Work Permit, even though Employer No. 1 refused to give me my Work Permit when I left. Simply tell Employer No. 2 the facts, he should be able to do the rest.

Ah yes a knight to the rescue. Many brains to be picked here. 

[protectyourcultures]

11 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

First! You may wish to stay at your old job because the new one may require their teachers to actually write English properly if they plan to teach it. Second! By law your work permit must be at the place you are working. This doesn't necessarily mean with your employer. You are only required to have it with you while at work in case immigration comes a knockin.

Third! If you leave your job, your visa and your work permit are cancelled and you have only a few days to leave Thailand or change visa to a tourist visa. If the school doesn't notify and cancel your visa and work permit, you can go do it yourself at the immigration office.

If you leave your current job. You must go outside of Thailand and secure a new non-b visa and then the new school will apply again for a new work permit.

Good luck in whatever your Ventures are in Thailand.

I suspect that, if the new school is willing to hire you even though they know you are under a different contract, they will be just as willing to fire you and hire a better educated employee in the future.

Wow! What a friendly forum this is.  This is an internet forum. I'm not submitting a dissertation. Do you know what one of those is?

 

FYI, I have a first-class honours degree and I will also have an M.Ed soon. I'm more than qualified. Cheers.

Thanks to Ubonjoe and the others who replied with helpful answers, including the PM.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Be careful about telling lies about your WP at the labour office.Head teachers often have friends or contacts in these places.If your awkward boss is being shitty with you and he has someone at the LO he can make things difficult.If your boss is on any kind of board to do with education he can speak to the LO and tell them you are a trouble maker and you have violated all the rules.It happened at a school i worked in,in Patts.I wont reveal the name but it was ruled with an iron fist by the head/owner.The head was on a few boards and attended many a party or meeting that the other heads and board members went to. The teacher in question went to the LO for a problem.He didnt have a teachers licence and had completed two years of teaching.The LO was prepared to give him his new W P without him having the licence.While he was there,the head made a phone call to the LO,the assistant knew the head as an old friend. The head cancelled his WP while he was at the LO.He ended up having to get a 30 day tourist visa,and being virtually unemployable.So what sort of clout did this head have?

Be honest with the Lo,its not worth trying to kid them,it may come back and bite you on the arse.

[Suradit69]

29 minutes ago, protectyourcultures said:

Wow! What a friendly forum this is.

Hey if you want everyone to tell you just what you want to hear, call home to mom & dad.

 

29 minutes ago, protectyourcultures said:

FYI, I have a first-class honours degree and I will also have an M.Ed soon. I'm more than qualified. Cheers.

Right.

 

21 hours ago, protectyourcultures said:

 

Anyway, another school are interested in me.

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Suradit69

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed. 

[humqdpf]

On 31/1/2017 at 5:14 PM, FrankThai said:

You signed a contract agreeing to work for a certain amount of time. 

 

How about this, instead of violating what you agreed to, how about you be honorable and hold to your agreement.

The last time I checked, indentured labour and slavery was illegal in Thailand as it is in most countries. You cannot force someone to work for you for any reason, not matter what it says in the contract.

 

There are many reasons why someone might want to change their job and withholding work permit might be one of them, especially given that it is the employee has to produce the work permit at the place of work if there is a raid - having it locked in the director's office which is likely to be in a different location means that the boss is forcing the employee to break the law by not having the documents to present when he is working in the event of a raid. And it is the employee who will be prosecuted if this occurs.

 

So much for violation of contract - how about a contract forcing the other party to violate the law. Is that violating enough in your view of the employer's honourable keeping to the letter of the contract?

 

 

[overherebc]

On 01/02/2017 at 8:45 AM, thesetat2013 said:

First! You may wish to stay at your old job because the new one may require their teachers to actually write English properly if they plan to teach it. Second! By law your work permit must be at the place you are working. This doesn't necessarily mean with your employer. You are only required to have it with you while at work in case immigration comes a knockin.

Third! If you leave your job, your visa and your work permit are cancelled and you have only a few days to leave Thailand or change visa to a tourist visa. If the school doesn't notify and cancel your visa and work permit, you can go do it yourself at the immigration office.

If you leave your current job. You must go outside of Thailand and secure a new non-b visa and then the new school will apply again for a new work permit.

Good luck in whatever your Ventures are in Thailand.

I suspect that, if the new school is willing to hire you even though they know you are under a different contract, they will be just as willing to fire you and hire a better educated employee in the future.

Little bit wrong there.  If you have a visa it can only be cancelled by Imm' and they won't be interested in doing so.

If you are on extension, ie doing 90 day reports then yes that will end same day as your job.

You then pay 1900 baht and get 7 days to leave and go get a new visa.