Did we make them this bitter?

[wump]

After spending most of my time in Thailand in typical tourist places, I started travelling the less beaten path. It is amazing: The people are so friendly, absolutely nobody is trying to cheat you (not even motorbike taxis?!), tip is not expected anywhere and you'll receive genuine smiles all around. And the people are so helpful.

 

The question is: Did the arrogant, demanding, drunk, shouting, disrespectful and downright rude way SOME tourists behave change the mentality of the people in these touristy places? Or was is the money-flashing and the carelessness about pricing that attracted the greedy (=bad) people?

 

I had an experience with a fellow countrymen the other day. All of us were finished with our dinners while still he had a bit left on his plate. He was engaged in conversation and the waitress came asking if he had finished eating. He turns around and goes: "Can't you see I'm not finished? What's wrong with you?" I really feel a lot of embarrassment when I see many tourists acting. I can see the locals using their face and just taking it in with an awkward smile. No wonder a lot of them hold a grudge.

 

Now remember before you answer: This thread is for farang-bashing. Use your Thai-bashing in 99% of the other threads. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by wump

[manarak]

When dealing with masses, it's always the same: stupid and uneducated meets stupid and uneducated. What do you expect to happen?

 

"We" is the typical feeling that only Westerners can change the indigenous people - yet look what happened to the Chinese tourists...

Edited February 1, 2017 by manarak

[wump]

Stupid and uneducated doesn't have to mean disrespectful, does it?

[kannot]

you over analyse it, its GREED by the Thais nothing more................ no need to tell me what I can and cant answer thanks

Edited February 1, 2017 by kannot

[wump]

So how come they don't do that outside of tourist areas? Too shy? Don't know yes that every farang is rich? Or maybe just some integrity or respect for their own actions left?

Edited February 1, 2017 by wump

[kannot]

Maybe thats "your" (1 persons) viewpoint only......ask any Thais if they trust other Thais in general, then note the endemic corruption at all levels

Edited February 1, 2017 by kannot

[Hans12345]

The Golden Rule: Treat others how you want to be treated

[daveAustin]

Derrr. Surprised you have to ask. You'll see this all over the world. They are generally wonderful on the face of it, and yes, there are also scummy people in those non tourist places. They are just more visible when they get together with the other opportunists in your hotspots. In answer to your question: both.

[chiang mai]

I think that many greedy locals flock to tourist areas wanting increased earnings, these are not necessarily the best mannered of people - see the same people in their natural environment and they are likely different. Ditto tourists wanting to experience Thailand on the cheap, they flock to the safety of tourist destinations expecting western service and facilities and get upset when they are not consistently delivered. So Somachai from Nakonbuggerall meets Fred from small town farangland, both in the same place for the first time, a recipe for friction and culture clash I would think, one is almost certainly going to offend the other in some way, more likely that Fred does the offending is my guess.

[Benmart]

I live in Thailand full-time, and don't associate myself with rude, oboxious and ignorant people, be they drunk or sober. When I observe them in public places, I distance myself. I first came to Thailand in 1993 and live here full-time since 2013. Greed, corruption, substance abuse and anger has changed the face of locals and visitors alike.

[Jimbo2014]

Ever been to Kings Cross, The Pyramids of Gaza, Taj Mahal.  Same the world over. Any tourist place attracts its fair share of scumbags and Mafia types and red light districts up the anti.  You want a nice holiday stay clear of the tourist mecas.

[Kerryd]

It's a common trait that happens all over the world in places that are dependent on "outsiders" for their living. It is not something peculiar to Thais or Thailand, or the tourists that visit here.

 

I've seen the same reactions from "the locals" in towns that were dependent on the military for their existence. Without the large military base and regular influx of new recruits, many of the local businesses would go bankrupt (and many of the local lasses would go unwed). Despite needed the cash the military was spending in their shops, the locals disliked, even despised them. Why ? They viewed the military as "visitors" to their  home and saw them as (often) drunken louts splashing money around like it grew on trees. (Sound familiar ?)

 

Dubai is another place dependent on tourism, as they don't have any oil wealth themselves oddly enough. Something like 90% of the workforce in Dubai are foreigners, mostly from poor countries (India, Philippines, Africa and China). The actual "locals" see tourists as a necessary evil that has to be tolerated (especially the non-Arab tourists). The "workers" often see them as snobby, rich elites flaunting their wealth (and many of the tourists act exactly like that). 

In Egypt the touts around the various attractions were not above trying to scam tourists ("mister mister - want see naked lady statue ? tip 5 pounds ? look here !) (No, I didn't fall for that. I saw them trying to suck other tourists in and noticed the statues on my own as I was zipping around the different sites.)

Didn't fall for the "oh the camel is sick and you have to pay for another one to bring you back" scam either. Or the "I'm going to try and get in front of you while you are taking a picture and then expect a tip for me posing for you" scam. For the most part though, Egypt wasn't too bad once you were away from the touristy areas (kind of like the OP mentions about Thailand) but I wasn't there long enough to get a decent feel for the place.

 

Even in a place like Canada, tourists are often viewed in less than favourable terms, though the locals aren't as likely to rip them off (knowing that if they tried there is a very good chance they'd be caught and prosecuted by cops/judges that wouldn't have any sympathy for them). Talk to the locals in a place like Vancouver (where I lived for 6 years) and the attitudes were often the same as locals in those other places. The more "foreign" the tourist, the worse the attitude. I grew up in a tiny little village in a scenic locale that experienced a lot of visitors/tourists in the summer months. A couple local businesses made some money but almost everyone saw the visitors as "outsiders" who came, partied, trashed the place and then left, leaving the locals to clean up the mess.

 

No different here than in pretty much every other place in the world.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

I do not live in a tourist area and rarely visit a tourist area.... and I see it the same way as you do. People here are polite, smiling and friendly. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters here have ever been to the Thailand that I live in... 

Edited February 2, 2017 by kenk24

[Thian]

It's normal for Thai restaurants to leave every bit of food on the table untill they leave...So maybe this farang was used to that?

 

On touristic places the Thai got very rude and greedy...they love to jam walkways infront of their shop, stand in the way, forget to give change like 3 baht, can't speak english, don't show prices....it all is annoying for westerners...

 

Add to that all the dangers we have to avoid while walking on the street and yes the farang might a short fused from all that thainess.

[AlQaholic]

The tourist areas are like a fly paper to all kinds of bottom scarp and criminal elements to come there and try to squeeze money out of tourists. Most of the businesses, local scammers, hookers, bar owners, tailors pretending to actually do the work themselves, robbers, motorcycle gangs, speed boats, jet ski.... are not from the local community, they came there explicitly to suck money from the tourists, how can you even start discuss how tourists affect this lot?????

[IAMHERE]

The Silver Rule: Treat others how they treat you

The Bronze Rule: What goes around comes around

[napoleon3]

I agree !!!

I am a TV member because of the news, and I stopped reading most of the comments because of the Thai-bashing by many members!

[Fore Man]

A brief tale that is apropos here...

I traveled to Thailand over 50 times in a 7-year period as a defense businessman based out of California back in the 1990s and was relocated here by my corporation in 2004 along with my native Thai wife.  On one of my earliest business trips. I was accompanied by a team member,  a young and bright electrical engineer who was also quite a cocksure, strutting fellow but he performed well enough back in our California plant.  I needed him to spend a month here as our products were undergoing evaluation by the RTA and he was our most knowledgeable subject matter expert on the finer aspects of our system.  But the longer he stayed here (it was in Lopburi), the more he began to demonstrate his ugly side.  One morning at breakfast in our hotel, he gave the waitress a hard time because he had ordered pancakes off the menu and was told shortly afterwards that the cooks weren't sure how to make them...could he perhaps place an different order?  His retort? "No! I Pancakes are listed on the menu and I want them!".  The answer came back shortly that they could try to satisfy his order, but it would take about a half-hour.  My engineer almost snapped off the head of our waitress and the restaurant manager, who had come to explain the problem.  The fact was that nobody had ever ordered pancakes there and the cooks had long forgotten how to make them. 

I looked at him across the table...and put it to him: "What's wrong with you, Tom?  Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or what?"

He replied that he was just fed up with Thailand and everything in it...the conditions were lousy, the "greasy and spicy" food was not suitable for his palate and that he just hated being stuck in what he termed "a Third World hellhole".  Then he explained that he was raised in a blue-blooded Bostonian family, graduated from our elite West Point military academy and didn't deserve to be subjected to these "awful conditions"....which to be honest, weren't all that bad.  I've certainly seen far worse, as in wartime Vietnam.  His biggest mistake came when he then pronounced "I'm better than these people!"

To which I remarked "Oh, you had the good luck to choose your parents did you? The people you are denigrating here in Thailand never had such luck...they were borne here and grew up in very different conditions than you did as a member of a privileged family in the US."

 

He railed against other petty things that irritated him, such as complaining that I had a habit of buying our driver a cold beverage or vitamin drink at gas stops out on the road.  His plaint?  "He earns a salary, let him buy his own drinks!"  I replied that the man made a measly 300 Baht a day, and was raising a large family with five children.  Besides, today, the chap was my driver and I was the VIP; but it could be anyone's guess that in another decade or so, the situation might well be reversed and he could very well become the VIP (this episode occurred before the economic crisis hit the Kingdom in 1997).  Of course he scoffed at that idea. 

I made up my mind on the spur of the moment and told him that that day would be his very last in Thailand, because I was ordering him back home....that we didn't need Americans of his ilk ruining it for the rest of us in Thailand.  He duly flew out from Don Mueang the very next morning and I later learned that he lasted another 6 weeks on the job back home before being cashiered out.  Nobody there wanted to deal with a sanctimonious hothead, no matter how smart they might be.

The point of relating this story is that there will always be fellow citizens among us who turn absolutely ugly when placed in less than perfect conditions overseas and forced to adapt to a vastly different culture.  Why such men (and women occasionally) stay here for the long term totally escapes me...they are obviously unhappy with far more than Thailand and its people, but we see them out in the streets and in the markets and here on the Forum bitching and moaning; whining and insulting all manner of things Thai as well as acting rudely to their fellow expatriates. 

We'd all be far better off with out these uncultured, often surly and/or drunken clowns.   All they do is give the rest of us a bad rap.  Good riddance.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Fore Man
added correction

[louse1953]

I went to all the tourist ghettos before they were  famous and the Thai people were friendly and helpful.Then the farang hordes came and everything changed,for the worse.I never go to those places now because they are stuffed.

[alex8912]

 

31 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

A brief tale that is apropos here...

I traveled to Thailand over 50 times in a 7-year period as a defense businessman based out of California back in the 1990s and was relocated here by my corporation in 2004 along with my native Thai wife.  On one of my earliest business trips. I was accompanied by a team member,  a young and bright electrical engineer who was also quite a cocksure, strutting fellow but he performed well enough back in our California plant.  I needed him to spend a month here as our products were undergoing evaluation by the RTA and he was our most knowledgeable subject matter expert on the finer aspects of our system.  But the longer he stayed here (it was in Lopburi), the more he began to demonstrate his ugly side.  One morning at breakfast in our hotel, he gave the waitress a hard time because he had ordered pancakes off the menu and was told shortly afterwards that the cooks weren't sure how to make them...could he perhaps place an different order?  His retort? "No! I Pancakes are listed on the menu and I want them!".  The answer came back shortly that they could try to satisfy his order, but it would take about a half-hour.  My engineer almost snapped off the head of our waitress and the restaurant manager, who had come to explain the problem.  The fact was that nobody had ever ordered pancakes there and the cooks had long forgotten how to make them. 

I looked at him across the table...and put it to him: "What's wrong with you, Tom?  Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or what?"

He replied that he was just fed up with Thailand and everything in it...the conditions were lousy, the "greasy and spicy" food was not suitable for his palate and that he just hated being stuck in what he termed "a Third World hellhole".  Then he explained that he was raised in a blue-blooded Bostonian family, graduated from our elite West Point military academy and didn't deserve to be subjected to these "awful conditions"....which to be honest, weren't all that bad.  I've certainly seen far worse, as in wartime Vietnam.  His biggest mistake came when he then pronounced "I'm better than these people!"

To which I remarked "Oh, you had the good luck to choose your parents did you? The people you are denigrating here in Thailand never had such luck...they were borne here and grew up in very different conditions than you did as a member of a privileged family in the US."

 

He railed against other petty things that irritated him, such as complaining that I had a habit of buying our driver a cold beverage or vitamin drink at gas stops out on the road.  His plaint?  "He earns a salary, let him buy his own drinks!"  I replied that today, the chap was my driver and I was the VIP; but it could be anyone's guess that in another decade or so, the situation might well be reversed and he could very well become the VIP (this episode occurred before the economic crisis hit the Kingdom in 1997).  Of course he scoffed at that idea. 

I made up my mind on the spur of the moment and told him that that day would be his very last in Thailand, because I was ordering him back home....that we didn't need Americans of his ilk ruining it for the rest of us in Thailand.  He duly flew out from Don Mueang the very next morning and I later learned that he lasted another 6 weeks on the job back home before being cashiered out.  Nobody there wanted to deal with a sanctimonious hothead, no matter how smart they might be.

The point of relating this story is that there will always be fellow citizens among us who turn absolutely ugly when placed in less than perfect conditions overseas and forced to adapt to a vastly different culture.  Why such men (and women occasionally) stay here for the long term totally escapes me...they are obviously unhappy with far more than Thailand and its people, but we see them out in the streets and in the markets and here on the Forum bitching and moaning; whining and insulting all manner of things Thai as well as acting rudely to their fellow expatriates. 

We'd all be far better off with out these uncultured, often surly and/or drunken clowns.   All they do is give the rest of us a bad rap.  Good riddance.

Hmmm so only war time Vietnam is far  worse than Lopburi?  Does not make some of that young mans story seem so off. He also said in the year 1997, a young guy as well " I'm a Boston  blue blood" sounds like some of your story is a little blurry sir. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by alex8912

[chiang mai]

 I know of farangs who have lived in Thailand for over ten years who never have anything to do with locals other than as a tuk tuk driver or a cashier at Makro, they spend their lives inside their gated compound. Their attitude towards locals is that they are very much second class citizens, to be used for whatever purposes they need them to but never to be regarded as being on the same level. It's not uncommon, even amongst long term expats. Truly beyond sad.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

No,no,and thrice no.This cannot be the same Thailand that is advertised in the Hayes and Jarvis and the Kuoni brouchers.Their Thailand is beautiful Islands and smiling young ladies waiting with towels in their hands,just waiting to massage you at your luxuriant 5 star hotel.The food is fabulous  Cuisine,and the infinity pool is bright blue,and beckons you in for the swim of a life time.A smiling waiter in a bespoke suit with wine bottle in hand,cheerfully laughing as he nods his head in silent agreement of some humorous  comment you have just made,and pours the sample of the Burgundy that you will be drinking during your meal.The beach has no vendors,or jet ski gangsters,and you can take a peaceful stroll along the evening beach,below a star studded sky ,where the stars are like diamonds carelessly thrown on a black velvet cloth,Knowing that you are both perfectly safe from Cambodian thugs who have swum to shore from a skiff and are prepared to gut you like a fish for your wallet and wristwatch.

,God only knows what plans they have for your female companion.

Why is this the description of this country in all the holiday shops? because people wouldnt come(except for the sexpats,they will always be a sure bet)here if they did.

This Thailand that is described in these glossy magazines,exists only for the very wealthy or the 2 week millionaires that have saved for 12 months to go there.Back to reality, and the greed,filthy streets,wild soi dogs,Sirens that occupy seats in bars,and lure you to the destruction of your soul,rip off taxi's,Markets where your hands are best kept in your pockets,dubious looking street food, that offers possible bacterial infection,or at least 24 hours on the bog.And,lets not forget the creatures of undefinable gender,bless them all.

After all this,I love it here.The two sides of the Thai coin.

!6 years and its still the only place i ever want to be.

[jak2002003]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 I know of farangs who have lived in Thailand for over ten years who never have anything to do with locals other than as a tuk tuk driver or a cashier at Makro, they spend their lives inside their gated compound. Their attitude towards locals is that they are very much second class citizens, to be used for whatever purposes they need them to but never to be regarded as being on the same level. It's not uncommon, even amongst long term expats. Truly beyond sad.

I also see this a lot.  Even some farangs living out in the sticks (where I live) just depend on their Thai wife for everything.  They build a big expensive house, tall walls and huge gate.  Then live in their own little bubble of farang land inside.  Air con on every day and night, at con on in their new truck to go to the air con filled farang supermarkets (as they don't like Thai food and want to pay crazy prices or imported farang food).  

 

When ever they go out they go with their wife to hold their hand.... they bark orders at her to do this and that, say this and that to other Thai people, complain about things.  They have never seen the real Thailand.  They live in their shell, convincing themselves every Thai person is out to con, steal and lie to them.  They don't trust anyone or have any real friends. They use their money like a bribe to control people and get what they want. 

 

After a few years they become so bitter and argumentative, have so little going on in their life they get obsessed about tiny unimportant trivial matters... and then start to take out their frustrations on their own farang friends.... in the end ending up with no friends and miserable on their own.  What a life!!! 

[dazzz]

Sorry but the op sounds like a sanctimonious get . I live off the beaten path and have never been to pattaya or phuket or many tourist area but i still get ripped off . He knows absolutely nothing about thailand .
 A couple of examples from outside udon thani .  Small can of beer chang , phen , 90 baht . real price 35 baht , nongkhai road 70 baht same beer . Asked the price of  a hat nong khai market 300 baht , my wife asked 5 minutes later 150 baht . In a shop landmark udon thani . Asked how much for phone screen cover  . Girls says 300 baht , asked a boy in the same shop he said 150 baht . When i asked the girl why she told me 300 she said you are farang , you have lots money.
 Bought a sheet of ply a few weeks ago with my wife 450 baht , went back alone this week 650 baht . I told him the correct price and i paid 450 baht
 Its built into thai culture and is everywhere . Perhaps  he is to ignorant to know he is paying a higher price .
 I dont get ripped off as i have been here 10 years and know the prices

[connda]

I think it's more along the lines that "birds of a feather flock together."  Those who wish to work in the tourist trade are composed of people who are fair business oriented Thais, and then there are those who are varying degrees of dishonest, right down to actual criminals.  All have the same goal: to enrich themselves off of the tourist trade.  So in major tourist venues you're gonna see it all.  That includes both rude, arrogant farangs and rude, disrespectful Thais on one end of the spectrum, and pleasant, curious farang and accommodating, friendly Thais on the other.  You simply can't lump everyone into a category - it just isn't that way.

Once you step away from the fray and get away from where tourist gather, you begin to get a taste of the regular Thai culture and normal, everyday Thai people.  Especially in rural Thailand where I and a few other farang choose to live you'll find that people are down-to-earth and are a generally laid-back and fun-loving group of people who aren't out to harvest your money. Sure, there is a Thai here and there who has the idea in their heads that all farang are rich and will attempt to whittle a few more baht out of you during a transaction, but it's up to you to get to know your vendors and your neighbors and transact with those who treat you fairly.  Those who remain aloof and detach may get gouged; those who assimilate and engage the local will be able to tell who is treating them fairly and who is not, and then you act accordingly.  To give you an example, I routinely buy a latte from a coffee vendor in Big C and I always tip.  I use to get a half a cup of latte and a half a cup of form.  Now I always get an almost full cup of latte with a little form -- and a big smile for the gals behind the counter.  And we chat while my latte is made - in Thai.  Sometimes it just pays to be generous! 

So good job finding your way off the beaten path -- enjoy the real Thailand!

Edited February 2, 2017 by connda

[NoshowJones]

The vast majority of Farangs I know are decent people, but I do not live in a tourist area, and at the same time the vast majority of Thais are also helpful and decent.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, napoleon3 said:

I agree !!!

I am a TV member because of the news, and I stopped reading most of the comments because of the Thai-bashing by many members!

I do see where you are coming from, but Thaivisa members come on and give their opinions, you can agree or disagree, and if someone does some "Thai bashing", they are only giving their opinion, just as long as they are being constructive, and not being rude about it.

Personally, I think that Thais are selfish, ie riding their motorbikes on the pavements, having dreadful road statistics through their low mentality, and will say so, on the other hand,  I think they are mostly honest, decent, non confrontational and helpful, so I say that also.

If I cannot give my opinion, without upsetting anyone, whether positive or negative, there is no point in me being a member here, apart from asking for help and advice, which I have had time and time again.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 I know of farangs who have lived in Thailand for over ten years who never have anything to do with locals other than as a tuk tuk driver or a cashier at Makro, they spend their lives inside their gated compound. Their attitude towards locals is that they are very much second class citizens, to be used for whatever purposes they need them to but never to be regarded as being on the same level. It's not uncommon, even amongst long term expats. Truly beyond sad.

I don't agree with you, I find it very uncommon, apart from when the subject of driving and riding motorbikes is brought up, then again you live in a tourist area where I don't.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

I don't agree with you, I find it very uncommon, apart from when the subject of driving and riding motorbikes is brought up, then again you live in a tourist area where I don't.

I don't know what it is you don't agree with, that I know of farangs who live as I say they do?

 

And I don't really think that Mae Rim is a tourist area, not by any stretch!

[Alphy]

If you wish to have  moan I expect you will and can find something/someone to always have a dig at. Sad and insecure people do that!

 

There is no doubt Thailand is not whenever you originate from so erase the thoughts of your Homeland and go with the flow. Thai's do what they want to do and when they want to do it so when in Rome so to speak???

 

I personally take advantage of whatever they have to offer and live a quiet undisturbed and peaceful life. That's what I wanted, away from a City, away from working in a city, away from people in a city?? Am I there? Nearly, but as it stands it will do! No TV Licence, No Residents Parking! Parking in Oxford for 4 hours = 15 quid or thereabouts! Hiked up Road Taxes, Exorbitant Car Insurance, Over the top house Insurance, Rip off Central Heating Bills, Council Tax and not sure when they are going to introduce a breathing Tax next??

 

No just enjoy what I can and when I can and I do!!!

 

Peace and Love Folks!!