Justice Department warned Trump on Flynn - official

[ilostmypassword]

20 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Yates was appointed by Barack Obama and told justice department lawyers not to defend his executive order. She refused to carry out her constitutional duty to enforce and defend the law. Not quite the same situation.

Actually, Trump violated the law. He issued his executive order without first submitting it to the OMB for review.

[stevenl]

There is a bigger issue here which is not being discussed much on most media.  While both Trump and Pence could (Pence did on Sunday) say that they were told by Flynn that he had not discussed sanctions and so were unaware. I forget the term but it goes something like viable deniability or some such. It seems that the DoJ had itself informed the WH last month that Flynn had indeed spoken about sanctions. Not sure about Trump but Pence certainly knew that he had done so yet said many times that he had not. That means he lied.
 
[Viable deniability is wrong for sure... perhaps another member can help me out of the correct term]

I am convinced Trump ordered that conversation with Putin.

sent using Tapatalk

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I am convinced Trump ordered that conversation with Putin.

sent using Tapatalk
 

Trump refused to admit Russia hacked the election.  Why?  It could possibly be proven they did have an impact on the results and that would shatter his frail ego.  So IMHO, you are absolutely right.  I wouldn't doubt if Trump's associates had conversations with Russia during the elections also.

[Traveler19491]

On 2/14/2017 at 11:09 AM, boomerangutang said:

Sometimes world news affects Thailand.  For example, if Bannon and Trump are party to a N-bomb exchange (perhaps nuking Bangladesh or Pakistan or Indonesia, because they're majority Muslim), then the it could affect Thailand.    Sound outlandish?   Not if you look closely at how those two nutjobs think.  Their speeches are in the public record.   Read or listen to them, and weep for the fact that idiot Americans were completely hoodwinked into voting for such dangerous folks.

 

Bannon is a total nutcase conspiracy theorist who genuinely believes that the Apocalypse in inevitable, so we should be the ones to initiate it. Dangerous doesn't begin to describe this maniac.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-bannon-apocalypse_us_5898f02ee4b040613138a951

 

[notmyself]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

I am convinced Trump ordered that conversation with Putin.

 

 

So am I but it has yet to be shown to be the case. I was just focussing on what we do know for sure and that shows that both Pence and Trump lied about their knowledge of the call/s for close to a month. This was at last brought up on mainstream media some hours ago (NBC News) during an interview with Conway but she avoided the question in her usual way. I don't think Trump, Pence etc. are going to be able to swipe this away in their usual fashion because even the Republicans are starting to call for a full investigation. If all this does take out Trump and Pence then does it go to Paul Ryan or the Senate to choose a new President? This actually may be an off topic question or at least drifting too far from topic.

[Morch]

On 2/14/2017 at 11:16 AM, Andaman Al said:

That's a good start. Now jail him. I guess he has been shown the transcript now of what he forgot he said.

Now jail him.

 

Doesn't sound much different than the "lock her up" brigade.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

I am convinced Trump ordered that conversation with Putin.

Now reported to be five conversations with Russian ambassador/intelligence. Trump's deniability of knowledge gets more difficult. Trump needs to explain why he wasn't aware of Flynn's contacts, why he authorized those contacts or why the contacts were perfectly legitimate within the context of Trump's election campaign. Meanwhile Spicer is blaming unauthorized White House leaks and the news media for reporting those leaks.

 

What bothers me further is that Flynn sat in on US intelligence briefings while Trump was the Republican nominee for POTUS and President-elect during the conversations. Has he revealed secret intelligence to the Russians (whether deliberately or carelessly as he had during Obama's administration)? The transcripts will be very revealing and certainly critical to the security of the USA. Forget the Logan law. There is the 18 U.S. Code § 2381 that describes treason.

[boomerangutang]

14 hours ago, wayned said:

He said that he would run the country like a business but it looks like it's more like his host of the "apprentice", coining his favorite saying, "YOU'RE FIRED", even though I just hired you less than a month ago! Not even a month and he has threatened Iran, threatened an unstable North Korea, barred immigrants and visitors due to their religious beliefs, pissed off many middle eastern Islamic countries and now is firing the bozos that he just hired!  What's next?

          Much more coming down the effluent tube from the White House.  And FBI's Comey couldn't give a straight answer, in December, as to whether the FBI would investigate the Russkies in regard to how much they were involved with the US election.  Comey should be another one of the dominos to fall.  He's supposed to be the #1 law enforcer in the US, yet he can't decide what to do about the 13 different Intelligence agencies which say Russia was involved with the election - on Trump's side to the detriment of HRC's campaign.  Ask any American 3nd grader, and they'll probably tell you it's a serious issue.  

 

         And we still aren't going to get to see The Divider's tax statements, even though he's said (in a video taped interview), "I WOULD LOVE TO RELEASE MY TAX RETURNS, BELIEVE ME." 

 

          More recently, The Dufus In Chief said at a press conference; "NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN MY TAXES EXCEPT YOU PEOPLE, THE MEDIA."

 

3 hours ago, Morch said:

Now jail him.  Doesn't sound much different than the "lock her up" brigade.

Except the 'Lock Her Up!' brigade were basing their SS-type chanting on HRC using a private server.  The things Donald and Bannon are doing are waaaay more serious.  It's like comparing a kid who spills a glass of milk to another kid who poisons the village water well.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

          Much more coming down the effluent tube from the White House.  And FBI's Comey couldn't give a straight answer, in December, as to whether the FBI would investigate the Russkies in regard to how much they were involved with the US election.  Comey should be another one of the dominos to fall.  He's supposed to be the #1 law enforcer in the US, yet he can't decide what to do about the 13 different Intelligence agencies which say Russia was involved with the election - on Trump's side to the detriment of HRC's campaign.  Ask any American 3nd grader, and they'll probably tell you it's a serious issue.  

 

         And we still aren't going to get to see The Divider's tax statements, even though he's said (in a video taped interview), "I WOULD LOVE TO RELEASE MY TAX RETURNS, BELIEVE ME." 

 

          More recently, The Dufus In Chief said at a press conference; "NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN MY TAXES EXCEPT YOU PEOPLE, THE MEDIA."

 

Except the 'Lock Her Up!' brigade were basing their SS-type chanting on HRC using a private server.  The things Donald and Bannon are doing are waaaay more serious.  It's like comparing a kid who spills a glass of milk to another kid who poisons the village water well.

PUTIN STARTING TO WONDER IF HIS PUPPETS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO PULL THIS OFF

 

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin is “starting to get concerned” that the puppets he installed in the executive branch of the U.S. government “might not be up to the task at hand,” sources confirmed on Tuesday.

According to the sources, the flameout of the national-security adviser Michael Flynn was only the most recent event that has caused Putin to wonder if the figureheads he propelled into office are “just too dim-witted” to serve the goals of the Russian Federation.

“When you choose a puppet, you’re looking for a sweet spot,” one source close to Putin said.

 

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-wonder-if-his-puppets-are-smart-enough-to-pull-this-off

 

[boomerangutang]

From NPR, a very reputable non-corporate news organization:

 

"There is a transcript of the call produced by the intelligence community, NPR has confirmed. It shows there was discussion about the sanctions. "Still, current and former administration officials familiar with the call said the transcript was ambiguous enough that Mr. Trump could have justified either firing or retaining Mr. Flynn," the New York Times reported.

Flynn briefed Vice President Pence before Pence made a round of TV appearances Jan. 15 in which he denied Flynn discussed the sanctions in the call."

 

So who is lying, Flynn or Pence?  If Flynn told Pence the truth in private conversations, then Pence is caught in a BIG LIE, and should resign.

[notmyself]

4 hours ago, notmyself said:

This was at last brought up on mainstream media some hours ago (NBC News) during an interview with Conway but she avoided the question in her usual way.

 Here the NBC News piece

 

 

[boomerangutang]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

PUTIN STARTING TO WONDER IF HIS PUPPETS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO PULL THIS OFF

Russian President Vladimir Putin is “starting to get concerned” that the puppets he installed in the executive branch of the U.S. government “might not be up to the task at hand,” sources confirmed on Tuesday.

According to the sources, the flameout of the national-security adviser Michael Flynn was only the most recent event that has caused Putin to wonder if the figureheads he propelled into office are “just too dim-witted” to serve the goals of the Russian Federation.

“When you choose a puppet, you’re looking for a sweet spot,” one source close to Putin said.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-wonder-if-his-puppets-are-smart-enough-to-pull-this-off

        That's a good point and a new twist to all the problems pouring out of the White House:

 

         If you're going to pull a heist, you want your partners to be at least a little bit savvy.  Putin is very savvy, but his partners in the US are inept chumps.  Trump and his sheeple can't even lie convincingly.  There are times when journalists interviewing them have to roll their eyes and say things like, "You've got to be kidding.  That can't be right.  The statistics don't show that at all.  Don't lie to me."

 

          I've been watching US politics for over half a century and, other than Nixon, I've never seen this much sustained lying from the Oval Office.  Actually, Trump and his sheeple are worse than Nixon, if that's possible.   At least Nixon was savvy.  Trump is as savvy as Tiny Tim.

Nixon had one big lie he kept going for months.  Trump and Bannon have new lies every day.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

          Much more coming down the effluent tube from the White House.  And FBI's Comey couldn't give a straight answer, in December, as to whether the FBI would investigate the Russkies in regard to how much they were involved with the US election.  Comey should be another one of the dominos to fall.  He's supposed to be the #1 law enforcer in the US, yet he can't decide what to do about the 13 different Intelligence agencies which say Russia was involved with the election - on Trump's side to the detriment of HRC's campaign.  Ask any American 3nd grader, and they'll probably tell you it's a serious issue.  

 

         And we still aren't going to get to see The Divider's tax statements, even though he's said (in a video taped interview), "I WOULD LOVE TO RELEASE MY TAX RETURNS, BELIEVE ME." 

 

          More recently, The Dufus In Chief said at a press conference; "NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN MY TAXES EXCEPT YOU PEOPLE, THE MEDIA."

 

Except the 'Lock Her Up!' brigade were basing their SS-type chanting on HRC using a private server.  The things Donald and Bannon are doing are waaaay more serious.  It's like comparing a kid who spills a glass of milk to another kid who poisons the village water well.

 

@boomerangutang

 

No, that's just more despicable hyperbole. Either you support the legal system or you don't. The main issue with the lock-her-up thing was not what HRC did or didn't do, but with the call to skip legalities or take them as being unnecessary because the supposed guilt was "obvious". Pretty much the same here. You are not in possession of full facts, and there is no formal charge. Flynn might well be guilty of something, but "jail him" ain't the answer. That's just emulating Trump's supporters.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

         It's clear that Trump's bumbling fools are doing all they can to make it appear Flynn lied to Pence.  Flynn is now fly-meat, but Pence is still standing as VP.  The lie brigade is going full tilt to try and keep Pence from being bowled over.   Damage control in overdrive.  

           Any reasonable person, who has been watching this issue, knows that Flynn would have told Pence what the conversation (with the Russian Ambassador) was about.  Furthermore, Trump would have been advised of all that was being discussed between Flynn and Pence.  Indeed, it was very likely Trump, in his unfailing bromance with Putin, who got Flynn to sweet talk the Russian Ambassador.  The transcript (of the conversation, released by intelligence services) is the smoking gun that Trump and Pence can't make go away.

 

         If Pence is still standing in 10 days, then he should get on his knees and thank his Christian God that all Trump's sheeple were able to shield him from the scrutiny he deserved.

 

[boomerangutang]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@boomerangutang

 

No, that's just more despicable hyperbole. Either you support the legal system or you don't. The main issue with the lock-her-up thing was not what HRC did or didn't do, but with the call to skip legalities or take them as being unnecessary because the supposed guilt was "obvious". Pretty much the same here. You are not in possession of full facts, and there is no formal charge. Flynn might well be guilty of something, but "jail him" ain't the answer. That's just emulating Trump's supporters.

           You're barking up the wrong tree, Morch.  I'm not advocating anyone be locked up.  Instead, I implore Trump to look in the mirror and realize he's completely unfit to be president, and resign forthwith - for the good of the US and its people.

 

         The 'lock her up' 'jail him' things were broached by you.  As far as I know, you're the only one referring to 'jail him.'   Is anyone else advocating that?   

 

            Since it's a given that Trump won't admit the obvious (and therefore step down), at least Pence should be shown the door, for blatantly lying to Americans about what he discussed with Flynn.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

           You're barking up the wrong tree, Morch.  I'm not advocating anyone be locked up.  Instead, I implore Trump to look in the mirror and realize he's completely unfit to be president, and resign forthwith - for the good of the US and its people.

 

         The 'lock her up' 'jail him' things were broached by you.  As far as I know, you're the only one referring to 'jail him.'   Is anyone else advocating that?   

 

            Since it's a given that Trump won't admit the obvious (and therefore step down), at least Pence should be shown the door, for blatantly lying to Americans about what he discussed with Flynn.

 

You may want to slow down on your hyperbole rants and actually read the posts you are replying to then. The "jail him" thing was not broached by me, but rather I was commenting on a previous post:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/968739-justice-department-warned-trump-on-flynn-official/#comment-11619708

 

And it was further quoted in my comment:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/968739-justice-department-warned-trump-on-flynn-official/?page=2#comment-11623703

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notmyself]

20 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Do you two even realize that column was meant as a joke? You sure do seem to be taking it seriously. It is a complete piss-take.

 

Same could be said about Trump but to go on would be off topic.

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Do you two even realize that column was meant as a joke? You sure do seem to be taking it seriously. It is a complete piss-take.

I must say that I am not surprised. It is just as ridiculous as many of the posts attacking Trump that appear each and every day. No wonder some people seem to think it is real.  

Hard not to know it's humor as the title says "Satire".  Attacks against Trump every day are purely because of his actions.  Stop doing and saying silly things, and the attacks will stop.  Easy.  And yes, the silly things he does are real. 

[Ulysses G.]

15 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Hard not to know it's humor as the title says "Satire". 

Yes, if one bothers to look, but it certainly was not presented that way and with all the hysteria and hyperbole when it comes to Trump, who knows what some people will present as "evidence". That parody is not far from many of the posts on here every single day that are definitely meant seriously.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[craigt3365]

20 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Yes, if one bothers to look, but it certainly was not presented that way and with all the hysteria and hyperbole when it comes to Trump, who knows what some people will present as "evidence". That parody is not far from many of the posts on here every single day that are definitely meant seriously.

Trump brings this on himself.  Cant blame anybody else for this.  And considering what he's doing, serious posts are deserved.

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Do you two even realize that column was meant as a joke? You sure do seem to be taking it seriously. It is a complete piss-take.

I must say that I am not surprised. It is just as ridiculous as many of the posts attacking Trump that appear each and every day. No wonder some people seem to think it is real.  

       In order for satire to be effective, it has to reflect real events/personalities.

 

       The article mentions how Putin is disappointed with Trump for Trump's bumbling.  I stick with my assertion; that's very likely true.  The Flynn imbroglio, for example:  Both US and Russian intelligence entities were taping those conversations.  Russia probably has many such recordings of prominent Americans, Trump included, saying compromising things.  And then there are possible 'pee tapes' and who knows (only Russkie higher-ups know for sure) what else?   To expose such tapes would also possibly embarrass Russian operatives.  You see the connection?

 

         Note: the British retired M-16 agent who mentioned the Pee Tapes (and other incriminating dirt that Russkies have on Trump) has had a respectable career.  Not even arch-Republican Trump butt-kissers are disputing him as a reliable source.  

[boomerangutang]

On 2/14/2017 at 10:29 PM, notmyself said:

There is a bigger issue here which is not being discussed much on most media.  While both Trump and Pence could (Pence did on Sunday) say that they were told by Flynn that he had not discussed sanctions and so were unaware. I forget the term but it goes something like viable deniability or some such. It seems that the DoJ had itself informed the WH last month that Flynn had indeed spoken about sanctions. Not sure about Trump but Pence certainly knew that he had done so yet said many times that he had not. That means he lied.

 

[Viable deniability is wrong for sure... perhaps another member can help me out of the correct term]

            The conventional consensus at this time is the TRUMP DID KNOW, WEEKS AGO, what Flynn said to the Russkies.  Concurrently, both Flynn and Trump kept VP Pence out of the loop.  If you believe Pence knew nothing, then I've got some hair-growing lotion for you bald head - it's on sale for only Bt.9,000 for a tiny bottle.  It's guaranteed to work.  If you want your money back, you can send a self-addressed envelope to me:  Haha Suckers, 386 Believe all the BS road, Cayman Islands, Caribbean.

 

         Will the Republicans appoint a fair-minded committee to seriously investigate the ding dongs in the Oval Office?   It's like asking if your mom will clean up the dog poop on her living room floor.  She'll get around to it, but grudgingly.

 

           Oh, and Flynn says he doesn't remember what he discussed, just weeks ago, with the Ambassador.  Trump and his brain-addled buddies aren't even good liars.  No wonder Putin is pissed off.  He's allied himself with partners in crime - who can't even zip up their zippers after taking a pee.  Total inepts.   

[Credo]

45 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

            The conventional consensus at this time is the TRUMP DID KNOW, WEEKS AGO, what Flynn said to the Russkies.  Concurrently, both Flynn and Trump kept VP Pence out of the loop.  If you believe Pence knew nothing, then I've got some hair-growing lotion for you bald head - it's on sale for only Bt.9,000 for a tiny bottle.  It's guaranteed to work.  If you want your money back, you can send a self-addressed envelope to me:  Haha Suckers, 386 Believe all the BS road, Cayman Islands, Caribbean.

 

   <snipped>

I tend to believe that Pence may not have known and may have been deliberately misled.   Pence has been in gov't and he knows that such information could be damaging.   He would have set the alarm bells ringing.   

 

Trump has a history of dishonesty and probably thought he could pull it off.   Pence would be a lot more cautious.   

 

It's typical of Trump to start jumping up and down about 'who told.'   

[Silurian]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

I tend to believe that Pence may not have known and may have been deliberately misled.   Pence has been in gov't and he knows that such information could be damaging.   He would have set the alarm bells ringing.   

 

Trump has a history of dishonesty and probably thought he could pull it off.   Pence would be a lot more cautious.   

 

It's typical of Trump to start jumping up and down about 'who told.'   

 

I am not so sure what Pence knew and when. It was stated that when Pence gave his TV interview about Flynn's discussion with Russia that Pence was given misinformation and Pence found out later. When Pence did find out, did he go out and retract his statements? No. He did not. He also covered it up like the others until Flynn was out of the office. So either Pence knew beforehand and lied or he knew about it soon after and kept it covered up. He is not so innocent.

 

To me it seems the Republicans want to make sure Pence is clean just in case the doofus POTUS is kicked out of office so Pence can slide right in. At least with Pence there would be coherent news conferences unlike that mess of a presser that just happened.

 

Mike Pence is using Donald Trump’s Flynn-Russia flap to try to get Steve Bannon fired

https://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/mike-pence-is-using-donald-trumps-flynn-russia-flap-to-try-to-get-steve-bannon-fired/1558/

Edited February 17, 2017 by Silurian

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/14/2017 at 8:29 PM, boomerangutang said:

The US is in a weird situation now, where the president and his people are at odds with all the Federal intelligence services.  I don't think this has ever happened before in the 240 year history of the USA. 

 

Basically, the intelligence services cannot trust the president.  That's a sad state of affairs.  Trump, Bannon and the other insiders are a cat's whisker away from trials for treason.

It's not their job to "trust" him. It's their job to do what he tells them to do. If he orders something illegal, then there are procedures to follow.

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not their job to "trust" him. It's their job to do what he tells them to do. If he orders something illegal, then there are procedures to follow.

 

It's 100% their job to trust him.  He's getting very sensitive info that is potentially being communicated to a country that's hostile towards the US.  So yes, they are doing their job.

 

Trust is earned, not given.  And so far, many in Washington don't trust him.  And for good reasons.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not their job to "trust" him. It's their job to do what he tells them to do. If he orders something illegal, then there are procedures to follow.

 

They don't trust him because they're afraid that the information they give him might find its way back to Russia.  It's got nothing to do with illegal orders.

Edited February 17, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[mtls2005]

25 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

They don't trust him because they're afraid that the information they give him might find its way back to Russia.  It's got nothing to do with illegal orders.

 

And the Russians can use a "Canary Trap" to identify our spies.

 

Form the sounds of it, the intelligence services are just being careful to mask the source of various details, for they are concerned that someone in the new administration might let something slip when not talking to a Russian "diplomat" (with or without an identifying badge)? Maybe better to be safe, for the time being? Seems like ordinary trade-craft?

 

Plus Trump likes maps, and bullet points only (maximum of 9 per page). How much detail can you get across in flash cards?