Surapong in the dock over Thaksin's passports

[sjaak327]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

That is because the rest of the world does not know about all the other cases Thaksin had or his hand in the 3000 extra judicial executions... oh.. i guess you forgot about that. Must be red selective memory.  We can also say now that the red shirts were the black shirts as it was proven in court.. so those 90 deaths.. certainly not only on the hands of the military.. more so on the hands of Thaksin who controls the red shirts and certainly had a hand in the blackshirts.

 

The rest of the world does not know the real dealings of Thaksin or they would not laugh. Coups legal.. no but done without deaths are not so bad certainly not if it stops the red shirts from killing protesters.. That is the whole problem of the reds.. they kill too much they are too violent. That is what is used as an excuse (a valid one) to launch a coup. Now you go back defending him and his armed squad of killers have fun.

I am not defending anyone, just pointing out that the law is not applied equal in Thailand. The extra judicial killings were mentioned in my post. I even posted a question as to why Thaksin was not tried for that particular case. I already know the answer to that question, I bet you don't.

[craigt3365]

37 minutes ago, greenchair said:

In fact he didn't even need the thai passport. He has many passports and travels where he pleases. 

Why take it out on the poor foreign minister that is damned if he gave it and damned if he didn't. 

Similar to the bank executives that recieved 20 years in jail. 

Because that poor foreign minister broke the law.  That's one of the big problems here.  If you are a person in power/rich, you can break the law with no consequences.  That needs to be changed.

[sjaak327]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Because that poor foreign minister broke the law.  That's one of the big problems here.  If you are a person in power/rich, you can break the law with no consequences.  That needs to be changed.

Fair enough. I propose to not stop with Surapong, but prosecute much graver cases like the people from the NCPO who not only broke the law, but replaced it with their very own...

[mike324]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

No, it was returned to him because at the time the laws of Thailand didn't apply to him, no need for conspiracy theories. 

 

Please provide links where it states laws didn't apply to him during PTP's term? He was guilty of his offenses, and those offenses still stand today. There is no conspiracy theories.

[Artisi]

26 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

Please provide links where it states laws didn't apply to him during PTP's term? He was guilty of his offenses, and those offenses still stand today. There is no conspiracy theories.

Oh dear! oh dear! didn't you realise at the time he (Thaksin) was above all laws and had free reign to do what he liked courtesy of PTP and his clone sister.  Of course he was guilty -  in the eyes of many people - but not all, and nothing has changed in the interim. 

 

[scorecard]

On 2/19/2017 at 8:09 AM, mtls2005 said:

The national anti-graft agency accused Surapong, a key politician from the Pheu Thai Party, 

 

It is amazing how "efficient" these "anti-xxxxx" agencies", and the "judicial" system can be when it involves red-shirts.

 

The hunt for Red-Shirts will never end. All in the name of "reconciliation".

 

Well they did do some less than moral and actually illegal things, have you forgotten that?

 

However folks of all colour or whatever alliance who have broken the law should of course be investigated and where guilty punished. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

I am not defending anyone, just pointing out that the law is not applied equal in Thailand. The extra judicial killings were mentioned in my post. I even posted a question as to why Thaksin was not tried for that particular case. I already know the answer to that question, I bet you don't.

 

What a childish response - 'I know something you don't'. Boring

[dcnx]

Considering he can go to an embassy and get a new one with no problem, it asks the question if there are any real charges brought against him at all or is it all just another pony show?

[Artisi]

27 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Considering he can go to an embassy and get a new one with no problem, it asks the question if there are any real charges brought against him at all or is it all just another pony show?

Not true, as far as I know his passports were either cancelled or had expired and were not to be reissued outside of Thailand, that means he could only apply in the country and there was no way he was coming back here. 

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

What a childish response - 'I know something you don't'. Boring

No, it actually gets to the matter at hand. The absence of justice in Thailand. I know for defenders of the junta it might be boring, or to use the correct term, inconvenient, as it exposes them for what they really are....

[robblok]

Just now, sjaak327 said:

No, it actually gets to the matter at hand. The absence of justice in Thailand. I know for defenders of the junta it might be boring, or to use the correct term, inconvenient, as it exposes them for what they really are....

Im not even going to reply to such childish reply's just so you know. You think you so smart i rather let you live with this illusion. Being a red supporter is hard enough these days. 

[sjaak327]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

Oh dear! oh dear! didn't you realise at the time he (Thaksin) was above all laws and had free reign to do what he liked courtesy of PTP and his clone sister.  Of course he was guilty -  in the eyes of many people - but not all, and nothing has changed in the interim. 

 

He was so above the law that he couldn't even set foot in the country. For people that are well and truly above the law, one doesn't have to look all the way in Dubai, or wherever he happens to be now...

[sjaak327]

Just now, robblok said:

Im not even going to reply to such childish reply's just so you know. You think you so smart i rather let you live with this illusion. Being a red supporter is hard enough these days. 

Childish ?, accusing someone of being a red shirt supporter is mature these days I guess..

 

. You will never get it, I am NOT a redshirt supporter. i believe in democracy and rule of law. From where I am standing, the Junta is well above the law with no mandate whatsoever and no accountability whatsover. Therefore they are without a doubt much worse than any of the previous few governments. If that suddenly makes me a red shirt supporter so be it. Must be nice living in such a simple world..

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Childish ?, accusing someone of being a red shirt supporter is mature these days I guess..

 

. You will never get it, I am NOT a redshirt supporter. i believe in democracy and rule of law. From where I am standing, the Junta is well above the law with no mandate whatsoever and no accountability whatsover. Therefore they are without a doubt much worse than any of the previous few governments. If that suddenly makes me a red shirt supporter so be it. Must be nice living in such a simple world..

You can call yourself what you think you are and so do I, people think I am a junta supporter.. and yes i support them but only because they are better then the shins. Not because they are good at all.

 

You seem to rate democracy high.. I would too if Thailand had a functioning democracy.. the PTP demonstrates they have not. Just getting voted in does not mean much to me if you don't uphold the other principles of democracy.  So i rate the previous ones as bad as the junta. 

[sjaak327]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

You can call yourself what you think you are and so do I, people think I am a junta supporter.. and yes i support them but only because they are better then the shins. Not because they are good at all.

 

You seem to rate democracy high.. I would too if Thailand had a functioning democracy.. the PTP demonstrates they have not. Just getting voted in does not mean much to me if you don't uphold the other principles of democracy.  So i rate the previous ones as bad as the junta. 

No, as what you still fail to realize is that a) they weren't above the law and  they could be voted out of office. Something thst just might have happened if Suthep and co didn't decide to disrupt those elections. The likes of you have been warned, be carefull what you wish for. Too bad those warnings fell on deaf ears. The Thai electorate will have to suffer the consequences for many years to come..

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

No, as what you still fail to realize is that a) they weren't above the law and  they could be voted out of office. Something thst just might have happened if Suthep and co didn't decide to disrupt those elections. The likes of you have been warned, be carefull what you wish for. Too bad those warnings fell on deaf ears. The Thai electorate will have to suffer the consequences for many years to come..

Something you fail to realize is that voting out is not how a democracy works.. people that break laws get punished .. you don't keep 500 billion off book calling it cost neutral in a real democracy. You don't let others vote for you (and deny it when caught), you don't change drafts of laws and amnesties before you vote on them, you don't send the opposition home and then vote secretly. That is not how a democracy works. (insert countless other examples of them breaking the law) Just because they got more votes does not mean they don't have to be held accountable. 

 

The only reason they are held accountable now is because the junta stepped in.. had they been voted in again they would have gotten away with it. That is not how a democracy works. So until there is a real democracy I don't see why the junta is so much worse.

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Something you fail to realize is that voting out is not how a democracy works.. people that break laws get punished .. you don't keep 500 billion off book calling it cost neutral in a real democracy. You don't let others vote for you (and deny it when caught), you don't change drafts of laws and amnesties before you vote on them, you don't send the opposition home and then vote secretly. That is not how a democracy works. (insert countless other examples of them breaking the law) Just because they got more votes does not mean they don't have to be held accountable. 

 

The only reason they are held accountable now is because the junta stepped in.. had they been voted in again they would have gotten away with it. That is not how a democracy works. So until there is a real democracy I don't see why the junta is so much worse.

I tend to agree, the junta and what has evolved from it are far from perfect BUT, I think far ahead of what would have now been in place had the ventriloquist clone been re-elected and the illegal amnesty pushed thru' mainly to support one person. 

[sjaak327]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Something you fail to realize is that voting out is not how a democracy works.. people that break laws get punished .. you don't keep 500 billion off book calling it cost neutral in a real democracy. You don't let others vote for you (and deny it when caught), you don't change drafts of laws and amnesties before you vote on them, you don't send the opposition home and then vote secretly. That is not how a democracy works. (insert countless other examples of them breaking the law) Just because they got more votes does not mean they don't have to be held accountable. 

 

The only reason they are held accountable now is because the junta stepped in.. had they been voted in again they would have gotten away with it. That is not how a democracy works. So until there is a real democracy I don't see why the junta is so much worse.

So you are claiming there were no checks and balances in place, really ? How come we have seen numerous red cards along the way ? Precisely your claim that there were none is absolutely false. How come Yingluck was booted out ? Exactly because the system did work. Now, pray tell how any member of the NCPO can ever be held accountable. What you claim that was the case is the case right NOW.

 

And you dare say they aren't worse ? You are closing your eyes for the reality.

 

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

I tend to agree, the junta and what has evolved from it are far from perfect BUT, I think far ahead of what would have now been in place had the ventriloquist clone been re-elected and the illegal amnesty pushed thru' mainly to support one person. 

well one could easily say that IF they would have won the election again, it would have been their right to re-introduce the amnesty bill. After all, it implies explicit voter support for the amnesty.

 

It would not have only benefitted Thaksin, instead NOW you have an active amnesty for a few persons in the NCPO, and there is nothing anyone from the Thai electore can do about it. Precisly this amnesty makes the case against Surapong suspect and unjust.

 

Amazing how people oppose one amnesty but are happy to support one that benefits less people and is much more far reaching as it includes future transgressions. Another case where the situation got massively worse..

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

So you are claiming there were no checks and balances in place, really ? How come we have seen numerous red cards along the way ? Precisely your claim that there were none is absolutely false. How come Yingluck was booted out ? Exactly because the system did work. Now, pray tell how any member of the NCPO can ever be held accountable. What you claim that was the case is the case right NOW.

 

And you dare say they aren't worse ? You are closing your eyes for the reality.

 

You are closing your eyes for reality.. YL had an 500 billion off books (without any transparency) fund and bullied everyone who wanted to know something about it claiming it was cost neutral and no corruption. Now we know better.. why.. because the junta took over.. Otherwise it would have been buried in the 2 trillion baht loan from the Chinese.

 

Surapong and the passports.. doubt it would have gone to the courts if not for the junta. The rotting rice would have been hidden.. countless things would have gone unpunished. 

If someone is closing his eyes its you for not admitting that as long as they were in power these things would have stayed hidden or they would have slowed all investigations down. Remember YL cut in half the budget of the NACC. 

 

Its a fake democracy when things like this are done and when people only get punished when they are out of power. 

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

You are closing your eyes for reality.. YL had an 500 billion off books (without any transparency) fund and bullied everyone who wanted to know something about it claiming it was cost neutral and no corruption. Now we know better.. why.. because the junta took over.. Otherwise it would have been buried in the 2 trillion baht loan from the Chinese.

 

Surapong and the passports.. doubt it would have gone to the courts if not for the junta. The rotting rice would have been hidden.. countless things would have gone unpunished. 

If someone is closing his eyes its you for not admitting that as long as they were in power these things would have stayed hidden or they would have slowed all investigations down. Remember YL cut in half the budget of the NACC. 

 

Its a fake democracy when things like this are done and when people only get punished when they are out of power. 

Absolute lies, we already knew about the rice scheme problems way before the Junta took over. Are you denying the NACC didn't persue cases before the Junta, again can you explain all the red cards that have been handed since 2007 ?

 

What you are closing your eyes to is the real reason for the coup, that is to ensure democracy will never get hold in Thailand. Read the constitution that got "approved" and see what they are planning. It has zero to do with democracy. The promise of elections will eventually be met, but those elections will not matter, as the senate which is fully appointed, will ensure that the people behind Prayuth can control any elected government.

 

again, you have been warned, be careful what you wish for, but alas some people are too blind to see the reality. You being one of them..

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Absolute lies, we already knew about the rice scheme problems way before the Junta took over. Are you denying the NACC didn't persue cases before the Junta, again can you explain all the red cards that have been handed since 2007 ?

 

What you are closing your eyes to is the real reason for the coup, that is to ensure democracy will never get hold in Thailand. Read the constitution that got "approved" and see what they are planning. It has zero to do with democracy. The promise of elections will eventually be met, but those elections will not matter, as the senate which is fully appointed, will ensure that the people behind Prayuth can control any elected government.

 

again, you have been warned, be careful what you wish for, but alas some people are too blind to see the reality. You being one of them..

Oh dear calling me a liar and  blind.. I will call you the same for thinking YL and hers were a good functioning democracy with checks and balances.

 

We knew about the rice program its problems but the real investigation and revelations only came after the junta took over. You fail to remember how YL bullied the people who came out with the figures and threatened to sue them. You say you don't support the Shins but it looks a lot like it by not admitting any of their faults. 

 

Oh dear the horror of an appointed senate.. now the PTP has more rules to obey and less chance to steal.. the horror.. oh dear. 

[sjaak327]

Just now, robblok said:

Oh dear calling me a liar and  blind.. I will call you the same for thinking YL and hers were a good functioning democracy with checks and balances.

 

We knew about the rice program its problems but the real investigation and revelations only came after the junta took over. You fail to remember how YL bullied the people who came out with the figures and threatened to sue them. You say you don't support the Shins but it looks a lot like it by not admitting any of their faults. 

 

Oh dear the horror of an appointed senate.. now the PTP has more rules to obey and less chance to steal.. the horror.. oh dear. 

again, how did Yingluck stop being the PM ? Don't answer, and continue your lies that there weren't any checks and balances. Pray tell how could Prayuth be impeached ?

 

A senate that is fully appointed and has far reaching powers has nothing to do with democracy, any more than it has anything to do with PT (or any other party for that matter) obeying more rules....

[wakeupplease]

Reform Reform or persecute persecute (hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of their race or political or religious beliefs).

 

Even in Lieland you cannot do both, so which is it?

 

[bangrak]

Maybe there's something important to make out of the posts on this item.

Why not have 6-years tenures in Thailand, no elections, no waste of time and money, no conflicts, no violence!

I mean: 2-years the military, 2-years the Shinawatra party, 2-years the Suthep party, and just have a monkey in a temple pick the coloured balls to decide of the order.

What do you make of that? Let them each, time after time, go after their 'enemies'! With more efficient Courts taking care of corruption and abuse cases within 2-years, first instance+appeal+supreme. That should clean up the Augias' stable this country has become!

Hey, that should do the trick!

[bangrak]

59 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Grow up. If you respond, might as well respond on topic or refrain from posting. I wait to hear from you to point out any inacurracies in my post....

Sorry 'sjaak327', a boring person possibly you aren't, ...but you're so blinded by all things Shins/TS/YS/TRT/PPP/PTP/RS/UDD it can't be just obstination anymore, and now cousin Surapong, who'd have guessed... The most boring in fact still being your desdain for the truth of, uncoloured, plain, facts!

When you don't make money with this, maybe high time for you to get a life, a real one, of your own I mean! 

[sjaak327]

11 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Sorry 'sjaak327', a boring person possibly you aren't, ...but you're so blinded by all things Shins/TS/YS/TRT/PPP/PTP/RS/UDD it can't be just obstination anymore, and now cousin Surapong, who'd have guessed... The most boring in fact still being your desdain for the truth of, uncoloured, plain, facts!

When you don't make money with this, maybe high time for you to get a life, a real one, of your own I mean! 

Again, point out which part of my posts were inaccurate ? I would be all ears, I am pretty sure that none of what I wrote is being contradicted by facts. It's really really simple, here people are complaining about accountablity, about amnesties, and yet they are happy to support the current Junta.

 

Make no mistake, the facts are that the Junta is worse than any Thaksin government or proxy government in the past. The reasons have been well discussed and are all based on hard facts. This does NOT absolve those Thaksin governments at all, but there were checks and balances in place, and their tenure was supported by an electoral victory in each and every case. And.. those tenures not only had a clear cut end date, the Thai electorate would have the choice to elect some other party into power.

 

What we have now is a club of people that are not accountable, are literally above the law, have a clear cut amnesty for past and future crimes, and have no intention of leaving any time soon.

 

Anyone honesty believing things have progressed to something better, are seriously deluded. The have turned back the clock to pretty much pre Pridi times.

 

Oh by the way, I don't care for your allegations of being paid, the same could be said of several posters on this thread, who ignore cold hard facts to suit their own agenda. I don't have an agenda, I just observe what Thailand has turned into, and I for one, am not liking what I see.

 

You don't have to worry about my life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, thanks for the concern though. Certainly no place for such concern here though, but I know everything to stear away from the actual content, as that content is something you obviously don't want voiced...

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   Please stay on topic and keep it civil.   

[greenchair]

6 hours ago, bangrak said:

Sorry 'sjaak327', a boring person possibly you aren't, ...but you're so blinded by all things Shins/TS/YS/TRT/PPP/PTP/RS/UDD it can't be just obstination anymore, and now cousin Surapong, who'd have guessed... The most boring in fact still being your desdain for the truth of, uncoloured, plain, facts!

When you don't make money with this, maybe high time for you to get a life, a real one, of your own I mean! 

You forget that there are 77 parties that would also like to share the pie. At least in the past they all got to have a tidbit. 

[greenchair]

6 hours ago, bangrak said:

Maybe there's something important to make out of the posts on this item.

Why not have 6-years tenures in Thailand, no elections, no waste of time and money, no conflicts, no violence!

I mean: 2-years the military, 2-years the Shinawatra party, 2-years the Suthep party, and just have a monkey in a temple pick the coloured balls to decide of the order.

What do you make of that? Let them each, time after time, go after their 'enemies'! With more efficient Courts taking care of corruption and abuse cases within 2-years, first instance+appeal+supreme. That should clean up the Augias' stable this country has become!

Hey, that should do the trick!

There are 77 other parties to consider.