US expats accounts at State Dept?

[Spaniel]

I just came across this article in Kiplinger's magazine March edition.    Anyone familiar with the procedure for opening a account?http://www.kiplinger.com/article/saving/T065-C000-S002-expats-money-at-state-department-credit-union.html

[lopburi3]

Appears you join ACA for start (unless you qualify directly for SDFCU).

https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

Edited February 25, 2017 by lopburi3

[CaptHaddock]

Looks like you can qualify to join the SDFU by joining this consumer group which has a lifetime membership of $15, instead of the ACA at $70/$55 per year.

 

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/membership.asp?dname=Americanconsumercouncil.org

 

SDFU looks ok, but I can't find information about doing ACH transfers.  Can they be done online?  Are they free?  Anyone know?

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

SDFU looks ok, but I can't find information about doing ACH transfers.  Can they be done online?  Are they free?  Anyone know?

Both international and ACH transfers can be done online. Found the info here yesterday . https://www.sdfcu.org/banking-services

It is $20 for ACH and $30 for SWIFT.

[lopburi3]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Both international and ACH transfers can be done online. Found the info here yesterday . https://www.sdfcu.org/banking-services

It is $20 for ACH and $30 for SWIFT.

Believe that is a special immediate wire transfer rather than normal ACH one or three day payment service (much lower fee or free).

https://www.sdfcu.org/fees

[CaptHaddock]

Yes, the $20 is for a domestic wire transfer.  ACH, although they do not identify it by name, is free.

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/fees

 

They also support Popmoney which is a plus if you need to send or receive money to another person.

 

This looks good.  I am going to open an account. 

[Pib]

Free for standard ACH transfers...but doing a domestic "wire" is using the special FedWire capability that processes the transfer very fast/within hours....whereas a typcial ACH transfer is done in batch transfers....take a day or two or three depending on the sending bank.  Snapshot below from SDFCU fee table.  The External Funds transfer means an ACH transfer...free for typical 3 day delivery....a $3 fee to get it delivered next business day.

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, CaptHaddock said:

Looks like you can qualify to join the SDFU by joining this consumer group which has a lifetime membership of $15, instead of the ACA at $70/$55 per year.

 

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/membership.asp?dname=Americanconsumercouncil.org

 

SDFU looks ok, but I can't find information about doing ACH transfers.  Can they be done online?  Are they free?  Anyone know?

Going the ACC membership route versus the ACA membership route would definitely be a lot cheaper .  Only $5 per year or $15 for lifetime membership compared to a $70/$55 per year membership at ACA.  

 

But I expect a person is going to need a U.S. residential address for an ACC membership and ACC may ask for a govt ID (like a state drivers license) to prove such which I guess means they expect the address on the govt ID to match your U.S. residential address? But then again, many govt IDs do not include your address and the ID is just needed to prove you are a U.S. citizen/resident alien regardless of where you currently may be living in the world.  Don't know.

 

Below from the ACC website for others listening in and didn't got to the ACC eligibility webpage CaptHaddock gave above

 

Quote

 

How to Become a Member:

ACC Membership Eligibility Requirements:
Regular membership is available to any American consumer who currently uses or has purchased a major consumer product or service* [see list below] within three years of submitting their application for membership; and, supports the objectives of ACC; and, pays the required dues; and, and is a citizen of the United States of America or a legal visitor in the United States; and, can prove their residency status through a government-issued identification if requested. 

 

 

[CaptHaddock]

22 minutes ago, Pib said:

Going the ACC membership route versus the ACA membership route would definitely be a lot cheaper .  Only $5 per year or $15 for lifetime membership compared to a $70/$55 per year membership at ACA.  

 

But I expect a person is going to need a U.S. residential address for an ACC membership and ACC may ask for a govt ID (like a state drivers license) to prove such which I guess means they expect the address on the govt ID to match your U.S. residential address? But then again, many govt IDs do not include your address and the ID is just needed to prove you are a U.S. citizen/resident alien regardless of where you currently may be living in the world.  Don't know.

 

Below from the ACC website for others listening in and didn't got to the ACC eligibility webpage CaptHaddock gave above

 

 

Well, I just gave it the test.  I opened an ACC account online.  They did charge my credit card immediately for the $15.  They will get back to me, presumably with a member id number.  In the meantime I went ahead and opened a share account and checking account with SDFU using the ACC membership to qualify as eligible.  SDFU did not ask for an ACC member number,   Probably they just query ACC.  SDFU will take up to 3 days to confirm my account.

 

Will keep you updated.

 

I did notice on the fees disclosure statement that the online billpay feature has an "inactivity" fee of $5/month, which seems a little odd, but not a big problem.

[Pib]

What kind of address did you use? Only a U.S. physical/residential type address?

[Pib]

 
I did notice on the fees disclosure statement that the online billpay feature has an "inactivity" fee of $5/month, which seems a little odd, but not a big problem.

I guess that means if you don't use their billpay somewhat every X-months that means you start incurring the monthly $5 fee. Would mean a person who currently uses other bank accounts to pay bills would need to also use the credit union to pay some bills.

Some of the possible devil in the details with new accounts.

[CaptHaddock]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

What kind of address did you use? Only a U.S. physical/residential type address?

Since they asked for a physical address I gave them my Bangkok address.  They also asked how long I have been living at this address.  I also gave a mailing address which is my mail forwarder.

 

Among the list of organizations in which membership would qualify you to open an account at SDFU, there are a lot of overseas orgs, many of whose members must live abroad.  The country list on the physical address included Thailand.  So, I don't expect foreign residence to be disqualifying.

 

By the way, they sign up page also suggests that if you are not a member of one of the qualifying orgs, you can get your current company, etc. to enroll as a group.  So, possibly Thaivisa.com could join as a qualifying organization.   Would be a nice benefit for TV to offer its American members.

[CaptHaddock]

I note that ACC has "relationships" with 48 credit unions.  That probably means qualifying members to open accounts at those CUs.  That's not to say that many or any of them would countenance a foreign physical address, but it's possible.  I have so far been unable to find the list of those CUs on the ACC website.

[Pib]

I was just getting ready to also ask if they allowed mailing address during the signup and they did you said. That's good. Since the credit onion allows foriegn addresses when using that ACA affiliation I expect the credit union generally allows foriegn addresses as long as you are a U.S. person.

[CaptHaddock]

I was finally just now able to open a checking account at State Department Federal Credit Union.  It was like kicking a dead whale across the beach.  Initially, they required a copy of my passport.  I then got an email telling me how to login to their website, but not providing the necessary credentials which they said would follow.  Nothing followed.  So, I called them and they claimed to have sent me an email requesting additional documents: a copy of my Social Security card and a utility bill showing my address in Bangkok.  Fortunately I did have a water bill in my name with our address written in Roman characters.  So, I emailed them those copies.  Got an automatic response saying they would send the login credentials in one to two days.  Of course, they didn't.  I called them up again.  The phone operators said to leave my name and someone would call me back.  Instead I demanded to speak to her supervisor, who did come online, was helpful, and got them to open the account at last.

 

So, despite the poor customer service, SDFCU looks like one of the few banks/credit unions that will knowingly open an account for an expat. 

[Pib]

I was able to recently open an account with a similar type of credit union, specifically the Service Credit Union (SCU) headquartered in New Hampshire using only my Thailand military retiree APO address for my physical and mailing address after being rejected around 2 years ago.  Last time I used my U.S. address for my physical address and my APO address as my mailing address.  Before they initially approved pending me providing some documents such as a property tax bill or utility bill with my name on it proving I lived at my U.S. physical address which I couldn't do....just didn't have my name on any such documents.    Even had a follow-on phone call with them about the situation....couldn't get them to budge of the documents they wanted...that call ended with zero movement of the whale so application was disapproved.

 

But this time around it was pretty smooth sailing...after the initial approval (I applied online) I was asked to send in two ID type documents like U.S. passport, U.S. drivers license, etc., to further prove my identity which I did.  And "before" applying I chatted with them online telling them my living location, retiree status, address, etc., and they said their should be no problem.  So I submitted my application.  As mentioned application initially approved...then had to provide the mentioned ID...account then got final approval.  Account opened....up and running....ibanking up and running...and another debit card with no foreign transaction fees and reimburses ATM fees now in hand.  

 

But you need to have a "direct deposit" going to them monthly to get this reimbursement benefit...just an automatic ACH transfer from one of your other bank accounts to SCU is not acceptable like it is with some banks....and it's easy for SCU to see in the underlying transfer coding (coding only the bank/credit union can see) if an incoming transfer is a full pay direct deposit from some payment agency/company or just a transfer from another bank, an allotment/partial pay, etc...it that underlying ACH coding that gives a bunch of additional info regarding the transfer.    It like how Bangkok Bank can determine if an incoming ACH transfer/payment is a U.S. govt payment requiring Bangkok Bank's special Direct Deposit account....it's all in the underlying ACH coding...stuff we can't see but the bank's can.

 

Seems like last time SCU was not expat friendly 2 years ago; but this time around they were....maybe they have had a policy change...this time around there was no whale kicking.  

[CaptHaddock]

Looks like some of the US banks/CUs might be loosening up a little to the extent of being willing to do business with open and notorious expats.  That's a good development.  But after the next 9/11-type incident that could all change again overnight.

 

So, I am relieved now to have a backup checking account in the US in case there is any problem with my primary bank.

[Pib]

Definitely good to have a second account if nothing else as a backup, Plan B, etc.  

 

A lot of U.S. folks think the U.S Patriot of 2001 requires people to have a U.S. physical address to open a financial account, but the act makes no such hard core requirement.  Actually "Know Your Customer" and "Customer Identification Program" interlaced with various U.S. laws and regulations drive each financial organization such as a bank/CU to establish a policies regarding account openings and keeping accounts open.   Some banks seem to just take the hard core approach of no U.S. physical address, no account. But others offer more flexibility.   Depends on the financial organization....but not having a U.S. address is definitely an "dead whale that just can't be kicked aside" with some financial organizations. 

 

 ttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_Identification_Program

[Jingthing]

Thanks for posting about this.I haven't digested it all yet but I plan to. Like many U.S. expats, I've had "issues" with my U.S. based accounts over the years as it becomes obvious to them that I'm an "absent" customer (that's putting it politely). These options may be the answer.

[Jingthing]

Well, I've started to look into this somewhat.

I have some questions.

If you're living abroad can you get an ATM card for your SDFCU account?

This page only supports U.S. addresses:

https://www.sdfcu.org/sites/default/files/Visa Check Card Application.pdf

 

 

On the question of which organization to join to qualify for opening an account there, I think it's worth mentioning that ACA is the primary LOBBYING organization for expats. They've been involved in these issues for many years. Maybe they've been weak on successes (such as Medicare for expats) but some voice is better than no voice. So supporting them is in a sense supporting ourselves.

 

That said, I have a practical question.

ACA membership is ANNUAL.

If you join it basically to open a SDFCU account, do you think you are required to maintain as an active member (paying annual dues) to remain eligible for keeping the account? I think a very important question. Any idea?

[skatewash]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

That said, I have a practical question.

ACA membership is ANNUAL.

If you join it basically to open a SDFCU account, do you think you are required to maintain as an active member (paying annual dues) to remain eligible for keeping the account? I think a very important question. Any idea?

I am not a member of SDFCU but am and have been a member of other credit unions.  Once you qualify to be a member, that's it, you're a member for life (unless you give up your membership).  Therefore, I believe it's accurate to say that you only need to be a member of the qualifying organization at the moment you are granted membership in the credit union.

For instance, I was a member of an employee's credit union.  I kept that membership for years after no longer being an employee.  Joined another credit union as an employee of a qualifying organization.  Left that company as an employee but retained my credit union membership.  That credit union began offering membership to anyone who lived, worked,d worshiped etc. in the county it was located in.  I left the company as an employee but retained my membership in the credit union.  I moved out of the county but retained my membership in the credit union.  Qualifying for membership in a credit union is a one-time only event and there simply is no mechanism that I am aware of that makes one re-qualify for that membership ever again.

 

I'm also interested in the answer to your ATM Card question.

[Jingthing]

Thanks. I suppose ATM access wouldn't usually be that important when living in Thailand as expats would have Thai bank accounts to receive the funds via ACH and SWIFT. But if you are visiting back in the U. S. with no other U. S. account it could be a real problem.

[Langsuan Man]

I have been a member of State Department Federal Credit Union for a number of years and since I have never  used them for bill pay I have never been contacted about the "inactivity fee" but then again I may be grandfathered in.  I primarily opened the account (with a US address) due to their $20 fee for International Wires (now $25) which I used before I found the Bangkok Bank EFTS route

 

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If you join it basically to open a SDFCU account, do you think you are required to maintain as an active member (paying annual dues) to remain eligible for keeping the account?

They do require that I make at least one transaction annually to keep the account alive  ( I do an EFTS in and out) but I don't know the answer to Jinthing's question.  Usually once you get the account with any Credit Union , unless you violate some rule that the credit union has,  you are pretty safe

 

I established membership when I was an employee of the State Department and when I left their employ they didn't take away my membership with SDFCU 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Langsuan Man

[CaptHaddock]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I've started to look into this somewhat.

I have some questions.

If you're living abroad can you get an ATM card for your SDFCU account?

This page only supports U.S. addresses:

https://www.sdfcu.org/sites/default/files/Visa Check Card Application.pdf

 

 

On the question of which organization to join to qualify for opening an account there, I think it's worth mentioning that ACA is the primary LOBBYING organization for expats. They've been involved in these issues for many years. Maybe they've been weak on successes (such as Medicare for expats) but some voice is better than no voice. So supporting them is in a sense supporting ourselves.

 

That said, I have a practical question.

ACA membership is ANNUAL.

If you join it basically to open a SDFCU account, do you think you are required to maintain as an active member (paying annual dues) to remain eligible for keeping the account? I think a very important question. Any idea?

 

Don't know who ACA is.  The organization whose membership qualifies you to join SDFCU is the American Consumers Council: 

http://americanconsumercouncil.org/

 

They have a lifetime membership for cheap.

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

 

Don't know who ACA is.  The organization whose membership qualifies you to join SDFCU is the American Consumers Council: 

http://americanconsumercouncil.org/

 

They have a lifetime membership for cheap.

 The $5 annual membership with the American Consumer Council will suffice to qualify for SDFCU membership.  Since qualifying for membership is a one-time-only event, the lifetime membership is not necessary.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

 

Don't know who ACA is.  The organization whose membership qualifies you to join SDFCU is the American Consumers Council: 

http://americanconsumercouncil.org/

 

They have a lifetime membership for cheap.

Excuse me, but there are two choices.

This is ACA:

American Citizens Abroad

https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

They do good work for EXPATS. 

[skatewash]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Excuse me, but there are two choices.

This is ACA:

American Citizens Abroad

https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

They do good work for EXPATS. 

American Citizens Abroad cost $70 for annual membership, while American Consumer Council costs $5.  Membership in either qualifies one for membership in the SDFCU.

[Pib]

If I was going to bet money whether you just needed to be a member "during the account application/joining phase" or "you needed be a member and retain membership as long as you are with SDFCU,"   I would definitely bet on the former.    That is, just be an ACC member during the application/joining stage.   That's just your coin to get through the rotating gate into SDFCU (kinda like some of the bathroom entry gates where you need to drop a 5 baht coin in first to get through the gate); after getting in you don't need the coin anymore to continue to use the bathroom.  Hold one....talking bathrooms has made me want to pee....will bet back in a minute.....................OK, I'm back.

 

The SDFCU application says, "ACC — The American Consumer Council provides membership eligibility to SDFCU and ACC. I am currently a member of ACC or agree to become a member in order to join SDFCU."   

 

To me that simply means you need to be a ACC member during the application/joining phase; after that they could care less.   It does not say you must "retain" membership.

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/sites/default/files/Membership Application.pdf

 

[CaptHaddock]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I've started to look into this somewhat.

I have some questions.

If you're living abroad can you get an ATM card for your SDFCU account?

This page only supports U.S. addresses:

https://www.sdfcu.org/sites/default/files/Visa Check Card Application.pdf

 

I haven't got to the point of requesting an ATM card yet, but the fact that their application expects a US address does not imply that they will deny you an ATM card if you live abroad.  The fact is, although SDFCU accepts expats as members, their data systems and their staff are not up-to-date with that fact.  So, although on the application you can enter both your residence and a mailing address, there is nowhere on the web site that you can correct or even see both addresses.  There is one "address" page only and that cannot accommodate a Thai address.  They filled it in with a mangled version of my Bangkok address.  So, I called to correct it and the telephone support person was unfamiliar with the concept of a residential vs. mailing address.  At that point, I just told him to put in my mailing address, which I had to give him again even though it was on the application form.  Of course, the phone person doesn't have access to enter the address himself so he has to pass it to some department which will make the change, etc. etc.  Naturally, they subsequently garbled both addresses together.  So, now I'll have to call again and bump it up to a supervisor to get it fixed. 

 

The upshot of all this is that, eventually, the address SDFCU will have for me will be my mailing address only.  Once that is correct I will request an ATM card.  I don't expect to have a problem with that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, skatewash said:

I am not a member of SDFCU but am and have been a member of other credit unions.  Once you qualify to be a member, that's it, you're a member for life (unless you give up your membership).  Therefore, I believe it's accurate to say that you only need to be a member of the qualifying organization at the moment you are granted membership in the credit union.

 

That's been my experience also, so I would expect it to be the case with SDFCU as well -- only need to be a member of the qualifying organization at the time you join, not thereafter.

 

More broadly, I've written here about SDFCU in the past, but that was for their credit card that has no foreign currency fee.

 

I've never written about them for their checking account, because it has a 1% FCF and thus was of no interest to me by virtue of not being competitive with other no-fee options.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK