Dutch man stabbed by Thai men after road rage fight on Samui

sambum · March 14, 2017

On 3/6/2017 at 0:56 PM, jing jing said:

They'll never get the picture.

Travel halfway around the world, violate every social norm in a culture about which you have not a clue, expect the locals to bow down and pay respect to your magnificence, then take it upon yourself to educate them as to their error of their ways.

Then be angry you ended up in the hospital instead of thankful you're still alive.

Sadly typical western attitude, yet some still wonder why they keep taking a beating.

On 3/7/2017 at 3:01 PM, jing jing said:

Fair enough. But please, take note of how many responses to these sort of topics are knee-jerk defenses of the poor innocent foreigner victim, when in fact there was usually substantial provocation leading up to the end result. How is it that you and I have managed to stay out of trouble for so many years, yet others come for 2 weeks and end up in the hospital straight away?

"They had been driving along the Samui ring road in the Bo Phut area cutting in and out as tourist Dasemil Solakovich rode his own Honda Click.

But near the First Bungalow intersection the Thai men got off and a fight broke out.

The man from the Netherlands told the cops from his hospital bed that he got the better of the two Thai men and when they realized they were losing the fight they pulled out knives and he was stabbed in the chest and ribs."

Sorry to have to copy and paste such a long section, but it would appear from the report that the 2 Thai men and their girlfriends were showing off - probably being a danger to other road users, and the Dutchman took exception to it. I don't think he was expecting them "to bow down and pay respect to his magnificence", but he maybe had a few choice words for them regarding their disregard for other road users. He would probably have done the same if had been 2 farangs and their girlfriends, without half of the the ensuing violence. However, the 2 Thai men lost face in front of their girlfriends, (THAT is where the "cultural difference" lies and THAT is a recipe for disaster! Neither you or I were there, but this is how it appears from the information available.

So who was doing the provocating - the "poor innocent foreigner victim" or the 2 Thais? It would appear that one Dutchman was getting the upper hand against two Thais in the ensuing "cultural disagreement", and the 2 Thais had to resort to using knives.

As a previous poster pointed out, there are good Thais, and bad Thais, just as there are good tourists and bad tourists, but it does seem to be becoming more commonplace for the Thais to make sure that "one of their own" never comes off worse, and even casual bystanders will join in to make sure that the "farangs are taught a lesson" (e.g. the Hua Hin episode, "bouncers" setting upon customer(s) in the street, even people being assaulted for querying a bill.

And sorry to go a little bit off topic, but I love Thailand, and have lived here for a few years now. However, I fear that the "Land of Smiles" is fast becoming a country where people are having second thoughts about visiting because of all the negative publicity, hence all the contradictory figures coming from TAT, and the bar, restaurant and hotel owners at the "sharp end".

"Respect should go both ways" - Rant over!

Edited March 14, 2017 by sambum

sambum · March 14, 2017

52 minutes ago, Paruk said:

First: If you quote somebodies text, make sure it is a complete quote and not one where you leave out that, what doesn't suit you.

Second: For you too, I suggest you read again, again and again until you understand it truly. Nobody cares for your "interpretation" of their words, certainly I don't.

To be crystal clear to people like you, that have trouble to understand things, my view point is that if you are in an other culture than yours, you better adapt or get into trouble very quick and often. I've lived in many, many places with very different cultures compared to my native one and never, ever once got into trouble in those cultures. Now, was I just a lucky punk or did I show respect and understanding for those cultures? I might be wrong, but I think it was the latter that helped a lot with staying out of trouble.

I don't know where you get the idea from that "respect should go both ways" but I do know that people that use those kind of phrases are mainly concerned about respect going their way. Respect is something you have to earn, not a given right. Without getting into details I can imagine that the image that foreigners "earned" in Thailand is certainly not a glorious one, to say it mildly. Of course the Thai will no easily admit that, polite as they are, not willing to offend others.

Call it what you want, but pointing a finger at others means the remaining fingers point at yourself.

Firstly - YOU asked the question " Where did I say it was "Good Thai Culture"? I was only quoting the part that was relevant to your question, but I could quote your full post if you so desire, but I think people have seen enough "You know"'s for this thread.

Secondly, I don't need to read your post more than once thank you - it's crystal clear where you think the blame lies, regardless of the apparent circumstances, and I don't need you to tell me that "people like me" have "trouble to understand things" - there's no need to make such personal comments or attacks. I have also never got into trouble anywhere, home or abroad, but instead of slapping each other on the back and saying "Well done!" for staying out of trouble, why don't we stay on topic, and ask why a Dutchman ended up in hospital because he was stabbed in a fight with 2 Thais? I have made my feelings quite clear that such behaviour should not be acceptable, but you seem to think that it is, as it is their country and their culture, so we'll just have to differ on that.

Thirdly, I was replying to another poster, (Jingthing) not you when I said that "respect should go both ways", but as you have taken it upon yourself to explain to me that respect should be earned, and it is not a given right, I have to agree with you. For instance, did the 2 Thais show any respect to the Dutchman when they stabbed him? Did they show any respect to the other road users that they were putting in danger by driving so carelessly? Did the Thai thug in Hua Hin show any respect to the elderly lady when he kicked her in the face as she lay on the ground? Do the Thai "bouncers" show any respect as they gang up and "beat the c**p" out of (usually) solitary farangs? I could give many more examples, but you were the one who seems to be having difficulty with accepting the concept that respect has to be earned, and this kind of behaviour does not warrant any kind of respect whatsoever.

Fourthly, I'm afraid I don't quite understand your final sentence - who's pointing fingers? The only fingers I see pointing are usually by the BIB on a photo of a criminal with his ill gotten gains.

carmine · March 15, 2017

13 hours ago, Paruk said:

First: If you quote somebodies text, make sure it is a complete quote and not one where you leave out that, what doesn't suit you.

Second: For you too, I suggest you read again, again and again until you understand it truly. Nobody cares for your "interpretation" of their words, certainly I don't.

To be crystal clear to people like you, that have trouble to understand things, my view point is that if you are in an other culture than yours, you better adapt or get into trouble very quick and often. I've lived in many, many places with very different cultures compared to my native one and never, ever once got into trouble in those cultures. Now, was I just a lucky punk or did I show respect and understanding for those cultures? I might be wrong, but I think it was the latter that helped a lot with staying out of trouble.

I don't know where you get the idea from that "respect should go both ways" but I do know that people that use those kind of phrases are mainly concerned about respect going their way. Respect is something you have to earn, not a given right. Without getting into details I can imagine that the image that foreigners "earned" in Thailand is certainly not a glorious one, to say it mildly. Of course the Thai will no easily admit that, polite as they are, not willing to offend others.

Call it what you want, but pointing a finger at others means the remaining fingers point at yourself.

Cant believe you managed to stay out of trouble with your bigoted view on "foreigners".....

And frankly, unless you are a moderately advanced ten year old i find it quite pitiful your failure to grasp that respect should be shown both ways, wherever you reside. Or are you suggesting that we should show respect to some knuckle dragging half wit, be insulted for no good reason but show the fool respect purely because we are currently in his country?

Is that really what you believe?

samuijimmy · March 15, 2017

One post removed making little sense...

Lets stop the petty bickering .....

carmine · March 15, 2017

23 minutes ago, Paruk said:

Snowflake? Is it not bigotry to call someone with a nuanced different opinion from yours about something, "a moderately advanced ten year old" that fails to grasp a concept of respect where you are apparently very attached to? You call the local people "knuckle dragging half wits insulting you for no reason....". Yet, you don't hesitate to try insult me for no reason. Isn't that a fine example of showing little respect towards others, specially people you hardly know or not at all?

Believing is an act of faith, I try to stick to facts and observations I make in daily life. So the answer is, no that is not what I believe.

I suggest you go out and express your believe that the locals should show you respect, so you can show them respect. Please let us all know how that went.

Theres expats like you the world over. I'll just leave it like that!

carmine · March 15, 2017

17 minutes ago, Paruk said:

Expats? I'm not an expat. Yes, leave it like that. Don't forget to inform us, though, about your experiences on the street with the respect thing.

Ofcourse you're not an expat, i was joking, you're far too naive and lacking any streetwise.

Incidentally, i never get in problems simply because i don't go looking for problems. Life's as simple as that and one day the penny might drop for you.

Bye bye.

evadgib · March 15, 2017

sambum · March 15, 2017

5 hours ago, Paruk said:

Well, you seem to have found the quote button now and are able to make full quotes without ripping things out of perspective. Again I can ask where did I say it was "Good Thai Culture"? Please be so kind to point out exactly where I used those words.

You seem to think that I seem a lot and that is where things get snowflake style. Not interesting.

I think (not seem to think) and observe (not seem to observe) that when one enters someone else's house or domain, one should firstly respect and adapt to the rules and mores of the house or domain. If one wants to stay in that house or domain, one better accepts those rules and mores. If one is not willing to accept them, leave! I wonder where this misconception comes from, that one can walk into others domain and start telling them how to live and to what morals and rules?

We'll never know the exact details of this incident, unless we interview all involved individuals and listen and understand their point of view concerning this matter. Everything else is baseless speculation. I'm inclined to believe that the outcome of such interviews would be an eye opener for you and many other foreigners living here.

What I observe in Thai society is that the Thai on the one hand are impressed by the wealth and technical knowledge of foreigners and on the other hand are disgusted by the misbehaviour they display while being here. Just look at the last 150 years of "farang" activity in Asia and you might see what I mean.

First of all I have answered your question about the "Good Thai culture" quote. Sometimes you have to read int a statement a little bit to understand what it means, or is that too difficult for you to understand? (Sorry Mods, but he asked me exactly the same question!) However, I am not going to quote your full post, (as you would like, but not necessary), and I am not going to quote my full post - I am just going to quote the relevant details:-

You said :- "Well, you know, it is a different culture you know, so they approach matters in their own cultural way, you know. If I understand all the whining correctly, it's the Thais that winning all the street fights, you know. So that probably means that the arrogant farang cry babies get their a$$es whipped, you know."

I said:-

sambum · March 15, 2017

5 hours ago, Paruk said:

Well, you seem to have found the quote button now and are able to make full quotes without ripping things out of perspective. Again I can ask where did I say it was "Good Thai Culture"? Please be so kind to point out exactly where I used those words.

You seem to think that I seem a lot and that is where things get snowflake style. Not interesting.

I think (not seem to think) and observe (not seem to observe) that when one enters someone else's house or domain, one should firstly respect and adapt to the rules and mores of the house or domain. If one wants to stay in that house or domain, one better accepts those rules and mores. If one is not willing to accept them, leave! I wonder where this misconception comes from, that one can walk into others domain and start telling them how to live and to what morals and rules?

We'll never know the exact details of this incident, unless we interview all involved individuals and listen and understand their point of view concerning this matter. Everything else is baseless speculation. I'm inclined to believe that the outcome of such interviews would be an eye opener for you and many other foreigners living here.

What I observe in Thai society is that the Thai on the one hand are impressed by the wealth and technical knowledge of foreigners and on the other hand are disgusted by the misbehaviour they display while being here. Just look at the last 150 years of "farang" activity in Asia and you might see what I mean.

First of all I have answered your question about the "Good Thai culture" quote. Sometimes you have to read into a statement a little bit to understand what it means, or is that too difficult for you to understand? (Sorry Mods, but he asked me exactly the same question!) However, I am not going to quote your full post, (as you would like, but not necessary), and I am not going to quote my full post - I am just going to quote the relevant details:-

You said :- "Well, you know, it is a different culture you know, so they approach matters in their own cultural way, you know. If I understand all the whining correctly, it's the Thais that winning all the street fights, you know. So that probably means that the arrogant farang cry babies get their a$$es whipped, you know."

I said:- " So two Thais armed with knives against one unarmed farang is "good Thai culture", if "you know" what I mean? "

Surely you can see the implication in my statement? I didn't quote you as saying it, hence the inverted commas, and the "know what I mean" part at the end was just to illustrate your over excessive use of "you know" - presumably to try to make it sound like typical spoken English?

Secondly, I used the expression "you seem to think ..........." rather than the expression

"you think .............." for obvious reasons! You would (probably) be the first to jump in and ask how dare I presume to know what you think, and quite rightly so.

Thirdly, regarding your comments about house and domain, I can agree with you to a certain extent, but possibly you might like to clarify that statement to include immigrants of a certain religious denomination moving into a country and asking their hosts not to celebrate their religious festivals as it "offends them" (Sorry - off topic, but "you know what I mean")

Fourthly, I will agree with you regarding the fact that we will probably never know the full details of the incident, but we will have to differ on our presumptions on what happened, and what caused it. It may well open your eyes to hear and see what was said and done!

Lastly, I partly agree with your final sentence, which is why I said "respect should come from both sides" Sure there are examples of bad behaviour, but not just from the visitors - how many times to we hear of bad behaviour by the Thais on Farangs, and how many of Farangs on Thais?

Anyway, I think that this thread is about done and dusted for me - no doubt you will have some other jewels of wisdom to impart, but I on the other hand have nothing further to add so

sambum · March 15, 2017

6 hours ago, Paruk said:

To Paruk - missed from the end of previous post!

Edited March 15, 2017 by sambum
Addition of video

sambum · March 15, 2017

5 hours ago, carmine said:

Cant believe you managed to stay out of trouble with your bigoted view on "foreigners".....

And frankly, unless you are a moderately advanced ten year old i find it quite pitiful your failure to grasp that respect should be shown both ways, wherever you reside. Or are you suggesting that we should show respect to some knuckle dragging half wit, be insulted for no good reason but show the fool respect purely because we are currently in his country?

Is that really what you believe?

Bravo!

balo · March 15, 2017

Just don't provoke them and you'll be just fine most of the time. The Iranian must have used some strong words.

carmine · March 16, 2017

On 3/9/2017 at 8:36 PM, Paruk said:

Sure! But if you go out for a tango while drunk and misbehaving, expect to get a kick in the but at least from your chosen tango partner(s).

Which is another reason why you should always stay away from drunken locals as they have a horrid habit of taking out knives or guns for no apparent reason other than that they cannot handle the excessive alcohol they like to tip down their throats.

sambum · March 16, 2017

21 hours ago, Paruk said:

I think you tried to imply I might find that kind of behaviour "good Thai culture". But if that is not the case, fine. I would have said it differently to avoid the misunderstanding. The excessive use of "you know" served a purpose. To mimic a certain kind of people that use the two words as a stop between almost every sentence. It's an expression of simplicity and the urge to get confirmation from others. The intention was to put some satire in the mix, but that might have passed some over the head.

Immigrants that ask hosts not to celebrate their religious festivals as it offends them are included in my statement about house and domain. That is quite obvious, isn't it?

Your fourthly, beats me what you mean with that. Please elaborate.

And your last one. I hear regularly stories from Thai that are not particular flattering for the farang around here. Once (far before my time) Thailand was a welcoming and friendly, polite country. Enough stories around about that. We can ask ourselves today, what happened that it is so different these days? It would go far beyond the scope of this thread to go into details, but it is not so hard to imagine if one looks around and pays good attention. That's why I can understand their attitude towards foreigners. That doesn't automatically mean I fully endorse it. Hope that makes things more clear.

Can you - like many others on here that won't take no for an answer - not read?

Quote:-

I've had enough of this argy bargy with you and your extreme views on Farangs, and excuses for why the Thais act the way they do towards them! So please take note again as you seem to have trouble in understanding:-

sambum · March 16, 2017

20 hours ago, balo said:

Just don't provoke them and you'll be just fine most of the time. The Iranian must have used some strong words.

Sounds like you're talking about a pack of wild dogs or snakes! Weeell.....?

"Dutch man stabbed by Thai men after road rage fight on Samui"

"The Iranian"?

Edited March 16, 2017 by sambum

samuijimmy · March 16, 2017

Obviously this thread is going nowhere, regarding the topic....

If relevant information comes forth, it will be added.

Closed//

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