Rejected entry at Savannakhet land border(SETV)

[Lovethailandelite]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I always use my Thai GF as my Thai-contact on all paperwork, and have never had a problem.   Perhaps this particular IO has a daughter who was stood-up by a Farang?  Usually we farang pick up the pieces left by Thai guys who shirk their familial obligations - but I am sure there are plenty of cases where the Farang does the "knock up and run away" routine, as well. 

 

To the OP - how old are you, if I may ask?  Younger travelers seem to receive more scrutiny than older ones, from my reading.

 

Also - I would not "give up and go home" over this one IO.  Try another point of entry, and get an online hotel booking first (free), if you don't have a rental-contract in your name.  If possible, also have a bank-statement showing your finances come from overseas.  Cover ALL your bases - leave no question unanswered with evidence - and you should be fine. 

This makes me smile. How does a long term rental contract make him a 'Genuine Tourist'? If I was stamping you in, that would confirm to me that your actually living here on tourist visas, particularly when I then looked at your in and out history...exactly what they are going to stop.

[Suradit69]

11 hours ago, JayBird said:

Are you saying that you had an unused SETV in your passport and were denied entry?

 

I thought legally that was not possible (as you had the visa)?

 

 

Immigrations is not obliged to honor a visa if there is cause not to let you enter.  A visa is just something to present to immigrations, not an order that they have to obey. 

 

The visa application has something similar to the declaration shown below. If there is a suspicion or evidence that you are other than an actual tourist, whether or not you might be employed in Thailand,  then you could be refused.

 

Certainly immigrations officers in other countries detain and deport people attempting to enter their countries even if they possess a visa. That's their right and their responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

This makes me smile. How does a long term rental contract make him a 'Genuine Tourist'? If I was stamping you in, that would confirm to me that your actually living here on tourist visas, particularly when I then looked at your in and out history...exactly what they are going to stop.

They accept long-term rental-contracts regularly at every Thai Consulate in lieu of a hotel-reservation.  This one IO's actions, absent any publication from the Authorities, does not constitute validation of a change in policy regarding Tourist Visas.  They could make a change at any time, and publish this change, and they have chosen not to do so.  If they "stop" this - they will be hurting Thais more than anyone else.   I am not sure why anyone would applaud the suffering this would cause (mostly to Thais).

 

Edit:  Personal Experience on this - When I entered at the same checkpoint, a couple weeks ago, the IO was careful to verify my place of residence.  This seems to have been the critical-issue which the OP could not meet.  Showing a business-card from my condo turned the tide of my conversation with the I/O.  I also had a letter from the condo's "Juristic Person" verifying my presence (original), plus my rental contract.  He did not ask for those - but I would suggest anyone entering have one or both of those to show.

Edited March 5, 2017 by JackThompson

[NoshowJones]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

Having a visa does not give you automatic right to enter any country. Entry to the country is decided by the Immigration department where you enter.

A good few years ago my friend flew to UK with his Thai wife and on arrival at Heathrow his wife was having a hard time getting through even with the visa in her passport. He tried to intervene and was told to stay out of it as the final decision on entry was down to Immigration at the point of entry. She did eventually get through.

Having a visa doesn't grant you the automatic right to enter no matter how many people quote the rules as written.

Your last sentence, a correct visa should give you the automatic right to enter any country provided there is no suspicion of criminality involved. If any immigration officer wants to stop you entering a country, he/she should have a reason and not on any whim.

 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, JackThompson said:

They accept long-term rental-contracts regularly at every Thai Consulate in lieu of a hotel-reservation.  This one IO's actions, absent any publication from the Authorities, does not constitute validation of a change in policy regarding Tourist Visas.  They could make a change at any time, and publish this change, and they have chosen not to do so.  If they "stop" this - they will be hurting Thais more than anyone else.   I am not sure why anyone would applaud the suffering this would cause (mostly to Thais).

I have said before, I fail to see you ever getting a public announcement that they will deny entry for too many Tourist visas on the assumption your living here. The only announcement I see coming is in the denial of entry when it happens. Seems to be a good few denials the last couple of days for it to be an isolated occurrence. I enjoy your posts and you sound an intelligent chap but sometimes I believe your thinking is way of touch with immigration's.Time will tell. Who ever believed the European Parliament would do this? Although it's not law until it's ratified. Australia and Canada also been put on 2 months notice. You never can tell what is coming next.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html

[NoshowJones]

12 hours ago, alocacoc said:

It doesn't matter. But I visit my family every 1 or 2 years for 4-6 weeks. And this since almost 9 years. Never worked in Thailand. Just manged my investments by online banking. All my money comes from abroad. I'm glad to spend it in Thailand. Something wrong with that?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

"Something wrong with that"?  Yes there is, you should get an Elite visa and keep Thailand happy. 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I have said before, I fail to see you ever getting a public announcement that they will deny entry for too many Tourist visas on the assumption your living here. The only announcement I see coming is in the denial of entry when it happens. Seems to be a good few denials the last couple of days for it to be an isolated occurrence. I enjoy your posts and you sound an intelligent chap but sometimes I believe your thinking is way of touch with immigration's.Time will tell. Who ever believed the European Parliament would do this? Although it's not law until it's ratified. Australia and Canada also been put on 2 months notice. You never can tell what is coming next.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html

Agree 100% with the last part - "never can tell what is coming next."  But in this case, given my own experience at this checkpoint, it seems the OP simply lacked a critical piece of required documentation needed at this checkpoint - proof of where he was staying.   My history here is much longer and fairly contiguous- no doubt the IO could see this on the screen; I had left Thailand less than 2 days before when I re-entered (usually I stay out a week - but not that trip).  Time will tell on the big picture.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

So you stay in THailand for 11 months a year, and you don't work but you manage your investments, all on tourist visa's and for 9 years

Why shouldn't he stay in Thailand all that time as he is obviously contributing to the countrys economy. As I keep saying immigration should stamp down hard on people employing illegals, and illegals themselves instead of harassing genuine long stayers.

[ThaiWai]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

Actually, I think many immigration officials will see the long-term girlfriend as a good legitimate reason to spend extended periods in the country without working. .

I respectfully disagree.  Also, showing up to the IO counter with anyone is a bad idea.  When interviewing two people separately it is very easy to identify discrepancies.  Not lies or deceit, just differences in question responses and that's all an IO needs to prohibit entry.   

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Your last sentence, a correct visa should give you the automatic right to enter any country provided there is no suspicion of criminality involved. If any immigration officer wants to stop you entering a country, he/she should have a reason and not on any whim.

 

I suppose the rejection on the suspected of working is one that many on back to back to TV's would have a hard time putting their hand on heart and denying. Obviously there are people with the cash to live without working.

[NoshowJones]

40 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Immigrations is not obliged to honor a visa if there is cause not to let you enter.  A visa is just something to present to immigrations, not an order that they have to obey. 

 

The visa application has something similar to the declaration shown below. If there is a suspicion or evidence that you are other than an actual tourist, whether or not you might be employed in Thailand,  then you could be refused.

 

Certainly immigrations officers in other countries detain and deport people attempting to enter their countries even if they possess a visa. That's their right and their responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

It should continue with, and if I do, I must accept that I will be given a long jail sentence, and 100.000 Baht fine.

[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why shouldn't he stay in Thailand all that time as he is obviously contributing to the countrys economy. As I keep saying immigration should stamp down hard on people employing illegals, and illegals themselves instead of harassing genuine long stayers.

Because there other options for long stayers of all ages, nobody is discriminated against. Immigration rules by the way, not mine.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I suppose the rejection on the suspected of working is one that many on back to back to TV's would have a hard time putting their hand on heart and denying. Obviously there are people with the cash to live without working.

Immigration only need to 'Suspect' working. There is a whole list of reasons for refusal. Either one of us could easily fit one of them, very easily should they choose to deny entry.

[buick]

i'm not totally sure what 'three back to back SETV's' means (per the OP).  if that means 90 days in country (SETV plus ext), then two or three days out to get new SETV, repeat again.  you've done 9 months with 4-6 days out of country.  this is more than pushing it and i don't really blame the IO for raising an issue.  you have to leave the country for a period of weeks (not days), several times a year, to avoid these problems.  even then, you must be prepared with the cash and the onward travel.

 

i've done this successfully for 10 years, 8 to 9 months a year in thailand using tourist visas and visa exempt.  but i've now turned 50 so will be on an extension of stay for retirement soon.

[steve187]

23 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why shouldn't he stay in Thailand all that time as he is obviously contributing to the countrys economy. As I keep saying immigration should stamp down hard on people employing illegals, and illegals themselves instead of harassing genuine long stayers.

in post 36 you say he should get an elite, now you are posting this.

 

so tourists visa's are designed for 11 months a year for 9 years, people used to say that about visa exempt and ed visa's

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by steve187

[NoshowJones]

32 minutes ago, steve187 said:

in post 36 you say he should get an elite, now you are posting this.

 

so tourists visa's are designed for 11 months a year for 9 years, people used to say that about visa exempt and ed visa's

 

Visas are only stamps in your passport, if you are helping the Thai economy, filling up hotel rooms, behaving yourself, not working illegally etc. Not getting involved with any criminal activity, what does it matter?

[NoshowJones]

53 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Because there other options for long stayers of all ages, nobody is discriminated against. Immigration rules by the way, not mine.

"Because there other options for long stayers of all ages",  Tell that to many of the under fifties who don't want to get married, and want to stay here long term, keep getting hassled at the airports and borders because authorities are too lazy too clamp down in the illegal employers and workers.

[jgold]

truth is it is getting harder and harder to live in Thailand for the under 50, I nearly got denied entry and I had an ed visa and a re-entry permit when I got into Thailand 7 months ago.  Now you have to change passports more often and not let visas accumulate. 

 

I am in Ho Chi Minh now, much much easier to stay here on tourist visas. Not as good as Thailand but things are changing fast here.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I have said before, I fail to see you ever getting a public announcement that they will deny entry for too many Tourist visas on the assumption your living here. The only announcement I see coming is in the denial of entry when it happens. Seems to be a good few denials the last couple of days for it to be an isolated occurrence. I enjoy your posts and you sound an intelligent chap but sometimes I believe your thinking is way of touch with immigration's.Time will tell. Who ever believed the European Parliament would do this? Although it's not law until it's ratified. Australia and Canada also been put on 2 months notice. You never can tell what is coming next.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html

About time, why should we get a visa for the USA and not the other way around

[FritsSikkink]

6 minutes ago, jgold said:

truth is it is getting harder and harder to live in Thailand for the under 50, I nearly got denied entry and I had an ed visa and a re-entry permit when I got into Thailand 7 months ago.  Now you have to change passports more often and not let visas accumulate. 

 

I am in Ho Chi Minh now, much much easier to stay here on tourist visas. Not as good as Thailand but things are changing fast here.

passport change doesn't help you at all

[jgold]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

passport change doesn't help you at all

It does help somewhat. If you give immigration a passport with no visas you have much less chances of coming under scrutiny. Of course they can link all the passports but the immigration officer sometimes is too lazy or too busy to look into it.

[FritsSikkink]

10 minutes ago, jgold said:

It does help somewhat. If you give immigration a passport with no visas you have much less chances of coming under scrutiny. Of course they can link all the passports but the immigration officer sometimes is too lazy or too busy to look into it.

How can he be to busy, he has only 1 person to do per time. Don't think he cares much about the queue, just needs to do his job.

[JackThompson]

33 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

passport change doesn't help you at all

It helps at consulates - easier to obtain visas in a passport without a lot of previous Thai stamps - especially if one of the consulates puts the stamp on your visa which says, "This person has received several..." - it allows you to "start over" with the consulates. 

 

At the entry-checkpoint, I have found a new passport makes entry much quicker, because the agents seem to check every page looking at previous stamps - likely they are focused on what OTHER countries you visited, given they can see your whole Thai-entry/exit history on their console.

[hawker9000]

17 hours ago, Jip99 said:

As far as the OP is concerned, the immigration officers conclusions were probably right.

 

 

However, if he is deemed to be "not a real tourist" then why was a 3rd back to back TV issued ?

 

 

It would seem fairer if the OP had been told "No more!"

Easy.  Embassies and consulates issuing visas are one hand of government (foreign ministry) and immigration officers another (police).   The one issues visas based on visa criteria and the other grants permission to enter based on entry criteria which is in part discretionary.  In a perfect world, the criteria would be unified, but ...

 

Without a denial stamp I didn't think that was legal either.  You might've asked for a supervisor.  It kind of ups the ante I think, but can be done politely yet insistently and with a smile.  The GF with whom you were going to be staying along with the previous visas back-to-back wouldn't have been helpful.

 

I've been shouted down a few times for pointing out that even visa holders CAN BE denied entry and tourist visas are NOT a good plan for remaining in the country indefinitely, just down to the simple discretion of an IO.   And now here we have another case, even with cash in pocket and onward booking .  There's no argument that a visa certainly improves your chances (vs visa-exempt) at Immigration, but it's NOT a guarantee, and the more continuous they are the more true that is.  The fact that you didn't get a denial stamp at least leaves open the opportunity of trying another checkpoint (better chances at an airport since money's no object).  You might try having a few days' disposable hotel reservation somewhere next time.  And maybe let your GF just go on ahead through the line separately.

 

[Asiantravel]

call me cynical but I don't believe the story of the original poster.

Notice there have been no further comments by him/ her after this scaremongering.

And I also notice all these kinds of posts suggesting rejection or extraordinary demands are always made by " newbie's "

Like the newbie who insisted a few months ago that the Ho Chi Minh consulate was suddenly now demanding to see air tickets into Vietnam (which made absolutely no sense whatsoever) and turned out to be an absolute false claim.

that newbie suddenly went very quiet after his claims were found to be untrue.

 

[juice777]

Also he says he is a long time member but can't fine his log in at the moment for obvious reasons.

[JayBird]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Why shouldn't he stay in Thailand all that time as he is obviously contributing to the countrys economy. As I keep saying immigration should stamp down hard on people employing illegals, and illegals themselves instead of harassing genuine long stayers.

 

It's not a matter of whether he is aiding the economy or not.  Not a matter if he's doing no harm.  Not a matter if there is a thousand good reasons for him to be in Thailand 0 reasons to not let him in.  All that matters is that the IO believes he is not a tourist and therefore can refuse to let him in.

 

They would rather have a drunk stabbing poor tourist falling down in Pattaya beer bars, than have a middle aged person who minds their own business and contributes millions per year to the economy.

 

Reason has nothing to do with it :)

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

About time, why should we get a visa for the USA and not the other way around

E.U. Lawmakers Call for End to Visa-Free Travel for Americans

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/world/europe/eu-visas-parliament-united-states.html?_r=0

 

I hope they do then Thailand and Asia will probably get a huge influx of Americans who don't want to spend the time to apply for a visa at some EU consulate/embassy somwhere in US

[JayBird]

5 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

E.U. Lawmakers Call for End to Visa-Free Travel for Americans

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/world/europe/eu-visas-parliament-united-states.html?_r=0

 

I hope they do then Thailand and Asia will probably get a huge influx of Americans who don't want to spend the time to apply for a visa at some EU consulate/embassy somwhere in US

 

Over a year now they've been talking about this.  The funny is that they want USA to give visa-free access to eastern Europeans who aren't even allowed visa-free travel to the rest of the EU :)  Oh the irony.

 

In either case, its unlikely USA will relax rules at this time.  And this can easily push out for years.

 

[jspill]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

That's no longer just the issue. They don't want people living in Thailand using tourist visas.

Source? Where is that stated anywhere? Every announcement, if any, like the ones about in/outs with visa exempts, has stated the reason is illegal workers.