Israel moves to mute mosques' call to prayer over loudspeakers

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

OK I didn't know. How do the communities feel about these bells, and is it a religious thing or is it more just village tradition?  Does it really compare to a loudspeaker broadcasting a loud human voice?

Since they are extremely religious, and some of these churches have been around for hundreds of years, I'd say it's both.  No comparison to a loud speaker.  But some of these bells can be very loud! LOL  And some are broadcast via speakers.

[robblok]

I am from a small village in the Netherlands, we had a few churches over there (Reformed and Catholic) and they only used their bells in general on Sundays and not at 5 am but closer to 10-11 or so. I would have hated it if they had done so earlier. Its just sound pollution just like loudspeakers from Mosk. 

 

Religious people should not bother others with their religions. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I spent a few days in Jerusalem.  It's a very strange city.  Multiple religions claim stake to it and none of them really get along.  Nor really like each other.  Security is crazy.  Everything felt on edge to me.  I didn't like it.  Too many religions fanatics.

Sure. 

Jerusalem is conservative and so important for all three Abrahamic religious people. 

When I was in Turkey, I liked Istanbul but disliked Ankara.

But there's always TEL AVIV!

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jingthing

[onemorechang]

Hope to see   the speakers  turned off on most of the  Mosques

around the world,   its the 21 century,

One more noisy selfish religion 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by onemorechang

[Grouse]

I'm an atheist but like the sound of church bells before a service and for weddings etc. Clock towers with bells/chimes are also fine; I particularly like the ones in the alps.

 

The call to prayer over loudspeakers is an intrusive pain in the ar*e. Just like the fancy dress, it's nothing to do with religion it's just to "stick it" to everyone else.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I spent many a night near a church that rang it's bells every hour.  At 5 am, it's 5 rings.  Some do a single one at half past also.  This is mainly in Europe.  But nowhere near as bad as being next to a mosque at 5am! LOL

"I spent many a night near a church that rang it's bells every hour.  At 5 am, it's 5 rings.  Some do a single one at half past also.  This is mainly in Europe."

 

Really?  Where in Europe?  Edit - or are we talking about cathedrals (or similar) in town centres far away from residential areas?

 

Having lived in England for 48 years I rarely heard church bells, and even then (living in towns) only when passing a wedding!

 

But I have sympathy with those living close to mosques that start calling the faithful to prayer at any hour before 9 a.m. (thinking about those who get up late).

 

I'm lucky enough to live a fair distance from a mosque and so only (sometimes) hear the 5.30ish call when the wind is in the right direction and I'm awake.  I actaully like it (from a distance!), but would be less than happy if I lived close enough to hear it full volume every morning.  Which serves to remind me of the tolerance of the Thais compared to Westerners!

 

As far as I can make out, this Israeli move would apply to any religion that makes a lot of noise during unsociable hours - and although it ends up being directed at mosques, is fair enough IMO.

Edited March 10, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

I wish Thailand would mute Buddhist wat loudspeakers.  It even goes across int'l boundaries.  I stayed in a Burmese border town, a few days ago, and a man's droning voice was broadcast VERY LOUDLY, from loudspeakers situated in Thailand.   It started early in the morning and went on for at least 40 minutes.  It's as rude as sitting on someone's face and farting.  It's assault.

Embarrassingly (having lived in this house 9 years) I frequently heard loud, 'stirring' music (only on Sundays I think) and so thought it was a christian church somewhere in the area!  It was only a week or so ago someone told me it was the National Anthem being played .

Edited March 10, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Galactus]

17 hours ago, blazes said:

 

Yes, it is indeed intolerant, but you see, while Islam excludes the Christian religion in Saudi Arabia, I will continue to celebrate my intolerance.  When Saudi allows construction of Christian churches (or, God help us!) synagogues, then and only then will I cease to be intolerant of Islam and will welcome all Moslems into my community.

 

But until then, I think, trumpily, that we must keep a careful eye and a blocked ear on their goings-on.

and who cares about your community?

you see things only coming from muslim side i guess but you never realize the oppression towards muslim around the world?

there are some countries on earth that does not allow muslim to build mosque as well.

and what about jews oppressing muslim? are they OK to enter your community?

 

[craigt3365]

31 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I spent many a night near a church that rang it's bells every hour.  At 5 am, it's 5 rings.  Some do a single one at half past also.  This is mainly in Europe."

 

Really?  Where in Europe?  Edit - or are we talking about cathedrals (or similar) in town centres far away from residential areas?

 

Having lived in England for 48 years I rarely heard church bells, and even then (living in towns) only when passing a wedding!

 

But I have sympathy with those living close to mosques that start calling the faithful to prayer at any hour before 9 a.m. (thinking about those who get up late).

 

I'm lucky enough to live a fair distance from a mosque and so only (sometimes) hear the 5.30ish call when the wind is in the right direction and I'm awake.  I actaully like it (from a distance!), but would be less than happy if I lived close enough to hear it full volume every morning.  Which serves to remind me of the tolerance of the Thais compared to Westerners!

 

As far as I can make out, this Israeli move would apply to any religion that makes a lot of noise during unsociable hours - and although it ends up being directed at mosques, is fair enough IMO.

Most of the smaller villages I've been to the past few years have been in Eastern Europe, the Baltics and the Caucuses.  Definitely in town centers, small towns.  Though some were big.  Had one right outside our window in Prague.  Actually, we've had them right outside our windows many times.  Sometimes they ring all night, sometimes hardly at all.  Depends on the church. 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Most of the smaller villages I've been to the past few years have been in Eastern Europe, the Baltics and the Caucuses.  Definitely in town centers, small towns.  Though some were big.  Had one right outside our window in Prague.  Actually, we've had them right outside our windows many times.  Sometimes they ring all night, sometimes hardly at all.  Depends on the church. 

Eastern Europe makes sense.  It wouldn't be allowed in residential areas in Western Europe - unless, possibly tourist areas?

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, Galactus said:

and who cares about your community?

you see things only coming from muslim side i guess but you never realize the oppression towards muslim around the world?

there are some countries on earth that does not allow muslim to build mosque as well.

and what about jews oppressing muslim? are they OK to enter your community?

 

This thread is about the 5 to 5.30ish call to prayer being broadcast over speakers in residential areas?

 

Yes, it seems likely to have been brought forward by Israeli zealots - but that doesn't change the fact that broadcasting calls to prayer at 5 to 5.30 shouldn't be allowed.

[Galactus]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

OK I didn't know. How do the communities feel about these bells, and is it a religious thing or is it more just village tradition?  Does it really compare to a loudspeaker broadcasting a loud human voice?

does it matter? it can disturb people.

so as others said, churches ring the bells hard at times. not sure have you ever been to Greece or a religious orthodox or catholic country in your life.

for one, i dont want to hear some bells ringing  same as i dont want some muslim prayer in the morning reminding me how bloody religions are.

sure muslim call to prayer with loudspeakers are louder but again, if you want a ban, lets ban them all.

somehow no one complains from a church in europe of course or no one complains from a synagogue in Israel but they complain from a mosque.

 

by the way, some clever right wing Israelis opposed this ban. Because they fear like muslim (or seculer or atheist Israelis) can go to court claiming that they get disturbance from synagogues.

such as Health Minister Yaakov Litzman:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/en/originals/2016/11/israel-knesset-muezzin-law-ultra-orthodox-arabs-ahmed-tibi.html

 

''...the chairman of the ultra-Orthodox Yahadut HaTorah Party, Minister of Health Yaakov Litzman, blocked the advancement of the controversial bill. The appeal he submitted regarding the decision of the ministerial committee on legislation, which authorized the bill, was based on the fear that the bill would silence not only the muezzins but also the Sabbath sirens that sound off in ultra-Orthodox population centers every Friday evening to announce the beginning of the Sabbath.''

Yaakov Litzman is totally right. He can see the horizon and what might come next!

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

This thread is about the 5 to 5.30ish call to prayer being broadcast over speakers in residential areas?

 

Yes, it seems likely to have been brought forward by Israeli zealots - but that doesn't change the fact that broadcasting calls to prayer at 5 to 5.30 shouldn't be allowed.

Yeah, if the KKK had advocated for a law that requires something more civilized for all members of society, religious and secular, who cares if it was their idea or what dark motivation might have been, if the POLICY was good.

 

Restricting religious oriented noise that is a disturbance -- GOOD! Objectively good, except if you're a religious fanatic.

 

Let's not kid ourselves. So many people are obsessed in a very hateful way about demonizing everything and anything about Israel, whatever it is Israel does, even when lots of stuff they do is very reasonable and/or trivial and their own damn business. This would be a non-story to these same obsessive characters as a Singapore policy. But it's the Jewish state of Israel doing it. Got to find an angle to paint that as evil. 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

20 minutes ago, Galactus said:

and who cares about your community?

you see things only coming from muslim side i guess but you never realize the oppression towards muslim around the world?

there are some countries on earth that does not allow muslim to build mosque as well.

and what about jews oppressing muslim? are they OK to enter your community?

 

There are numerous Countries and they all ban different things, whether it be opposition partys, Jews , Homosexuality , pre marital sex and various other things that some Countries ban .

    To suggest that Muslims are oppressed world wide just because some unnamed Countries have banned the buildings of Mosques, isnt looking at the full picture .

   If you look at the oppression carried out in Muslims Countries, of females , homosexuals , Jews , Christians , children and non Muslims and various others, its quite clear who are the oppressors and who is the oppressed

 

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I'm an atheist but like the sound of church bells before a service and for weddings etc. Clock towers with bells/chimes are also fine; I particularly like the ones in the alps.

 

The call to prayer over loudspeakers is an intrusive pain in the ar*e. Just like the fancy dress, it's nothing to do with religion it's just to "stick it" to everyone else.

by chance, maybe you are an atheist coming from a christian family???

and that makes you respect the religion of your forefathers but not the religion of others?

it means you have zero tolerance and you are partial and as an atheist!

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Galactus said:

by chance, maybe you are an atheist coming from a christian family???

and that makes you respect the religion of your forefathers but not the religion of others?

it means you have zero tolerance and you are partial and as an atheist!

Maybe he just likes the sounds of bells from wedding ceremonies on a Sunday afternoon, rather than someone shreiking at 5 AM through a loud speaker on a Monday and every morning ? 

[Galactus]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

There are numerous Countries and they all ban different things, whether it be opposition partys, Jews , Homosexuality , pre marital sex and various other things that some Countries ban .

    To suggest that Muslims are oppressed world wide just because some unnamed Countries have banned the buildings of Mosques, isnt looking at the full picture .

   If you look at the oppression carried out in Muslims Countries, of females , homosexuals , Jews , Christians , children and non Muslims and various others, its quite clear who are the oppressors and who is the oppressed

 

same kind of oppression is done by Christians and Jews before as well. many similar examples but i agree, recent times, it is some muslim (mostly bigot extremist ones) creating lots of problems. but before it was Christians.

plus not all muslim countries does what you say.

[sanemax]

Just now, Galactus said:

same kind of oppression is done by Christians and Jews before as well. many similar examples but i agree, recent times, it is some muslim (mostly bigot extremist ones) creating lots of problems. but before it was Christians.

plus not all muslim countries does what you say.

  That is the issue , most Religions have done terrible things in the past in the name of Religion , all of those Religions have moved on , its just Islam that is still the same as it was 1600 years ago .

   Jews are forbidden from even entering Mecca or Medina cities , Muslims are just not allowed to make a noise at 5 AM and disturb everyone else in Israel.

   That says it all, really

[Galactus]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Maybe he just likes the sounds of bells from wedding ceremonies on a Sunday afternoon, rather than someone shreiking at 5 AM through a loud speaker on a Monday and every morning ? 

ho hum.

that is what i was saying. somehow, if you are coming fro a christian family, you are fine for the bells ringing in your head.

maybe rings might be disturbing for a muslim family around there too. if they file a petition to silence the church bells? will you support it? frankly!?

but you cannot show the same tolerance to Muslim for their prayer.

then you come and cry here like, muslim prayers are too loud but actually, it is not the disturbance that makes you react, it is just hate and intolerance inside you make you act.

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I am from a small village in the Netherlands, we had a few churches over there (Reformed and Catholic) and they only used their bells in general on Sundays and not at 5 am but closer to 10-11 or so. I would have hated it if they had done so earlier. Its just sound pollution just like loudspeakers from Mosk. 

 

Religious people should not bother others with their religions. 

Sunday first mass at 08.30, so around 08.00 the bells start.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Galactus said:

ho hum.

that is what i was saying. somehow, if you are coming fro a christian family, you are fine for the bells ringing in your head.

maybe rings might be disturbing for a muslim family around there too. if they file a petition to silence the church bells? will you support it? frankly!?

but you cannot show the same tolerance to Muslim for their prayer.

then you come and cry here like, muslim prayers are too loud but actually, it is not the disturbance that makes you react, it is just hate and intolerance inside you make you act.

 

 

    Its the noise and timing that is the issue .

Bells quite a pleasant noise on a Sunday afternoon , although it would be annoying at 5 AM .

    Many Muslims in Muslims Countries also complain about the calls to prayer , In Thailand, I find the daily announcements on the loud speakers to be intrusive and annoying and I would be happy if they were banned .

   Its the noise, not the message behind the noise

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, Galactus said:

but you cannot show the same tolerance to Muslim for their prayer.

then you come and cry here like, muslim prayers are too loud but actually, it is not the disturbance that makes you react, it is just hate and intolerance inside you make you act.

You seem to be confused .

The call to prayer, isnt the actual praying itself

The praying is done when they get to the Mosque 

They can pray all day long as far as I care , I just dont think that they should disturb other people in the process .

[Queenslander]

 

The ‘Call To Prayers’ (CTP) was probably essential in times when followers had no knowledge of the time of day.  The CTP being a reminder to people that it was time to attend prayers, similar to the Christian Sunday Morning ‘ringing of the church bells’. However, in an age where everyone has a watch, TV, iPhone or computer the CTP is redundant. Possibly, it is still in use because without it, many would not attend!

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Queenslander said:

However, in an age where everyone has a watch, TV, iPhone or computer the CTP is redundant. Possibly, it is still in use because without it, many would not attend!

 

 

  Having to pray five times a day may have been a good idea 1600 years ago, when their daily lives were probably void of having anything to do .

   But having to pray five times a day in this day and age, is quite ridiculous 

[Galactus]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That sounds very intolerant to me. I believe in full freedom of religion including full freedom of no religion. Obviously if religious practices conflict with laws of a nation, such as Haitian animal sacrifice ceremonies, then restrictive laws are reasonable in some cases.

 

Other times, restrictive laws are not reasonable but still within the rights of any sovereign nation, no matter how distasteful. For example, a Filipino friend of mine had flown into Saudi Arabia as a contract worker holding a Catholic symbol and it was taken away and he was beaten. Legal there but objectively horrible. 

 

In the context of Israel, Muslim Israelis and other religious minorities have religious freedom and that's a good thing. A trivial regulation about muting calls to prayer doesn't stop people from practicing Islam. Get real! 

 

There are over 50 Islamic majority nations in the world. There is only ONE Jewish majority nation, and that is Israel. I realize many intolerant people are obsessed with being bothered that there is even that ONE Jewish majority nation. Well, too bad about that.

 

nope, it is not intolerant.

religions are plaguing this world and they were plaguing since they have came to an existence. (dreams, some schizophrenic so called prophets, some drugs or a powerful tool created by rich and powerful so they can stay rich and powerful? or a combination of all, not sure)

religions never brought peace or understanding! what they brought/bring is mostly blood, conflict, discrimination, division, massacres, wars, suffering and more.

so, we need to protect our families, sons or daughters and new generations from all religions. therefore, all religious facilities needs to be closed and religions need to be abolished before we get extinct from this world.

this includes all the pollution they create, noise or ideas. they all need to be banned.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Galactus

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, Galactus said:

by chance, maybe you are an atheist coming from a christian family???

and that makes you respect the religion of your forefathers but not the religion of others?

it means you have zero tolerance and you are partial and as an atheist!

I am atheist because I am an engineer and scientist. I don't believe in fairy tales

 

However, I do like ecclesiastical architecture and am quite partial to church bells in moderation

 

I am anti muslim for reasons I will not visit here

 

For, the others, Im ambivalent

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  Having to pray five times a day may have been a good idea 1600 years ago, when their daily lives were probably void of having anything to do .

   But having to pray five times a day in this day and age, is quite ridiculous 

1600 years ago people had nothing to do? I would argue that they had to work a lot harder than todays 5 days 8 hours (if that) working days, and let's not forget the 1 month a year holiday.

 

It really is up to any individual how many times and for how long a day they want to pray. I agree any praying is ridiculous, but that is mu choice and my opinion.

[binjalin]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am atheist because I am an engineer and scientist. I don't believe in fairy tales

 

However, I do like ecclesiastical architecture and am quite partial to church bells in moderation

 

I am anti muslim for reasons I will not visit here

 

For, the others, Im ambivalent

same, same, nearly, I'm a Buddhist (which is not a religion but let's not go there) and anti-religion but ones thing i'm very sure about religion and politics do NOT mix but both have been used to kill millions over the years and creating states/countries to house one form or another is bad news for humanity

[Galactus]

27 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You seem to be confused .

The call to prayer, isnt the actual praying itself

The praying is done when they get to the Mosque 

They can pray all day long as far as I care , I just dont think that they should disturb other people in the process .

thanks for your information but no need:) i know a lot about muslim most probably a lot more than you do.

look, the name of the prayer calling people to pray is called 'Azan' and it is a prayer.

moreover, they also broadcast prayers from inside the mosque with loudspeakers on certain holy days and sometime when someone is dead.

[Galactus]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am atheist because I am an engineer and scientist. I don't believe in fairy tales

 

However, I do like ecclesiastical architecture and am quite partial to church bells in moderation

 

I am anti muslim for reasons I will not visit here

 

For, the others, Im ambivalent

then you are a partial engineer and scientists therefore partial atheist?

you know science, you cannot be partial in it. bc facts are objective and 2 + 2 is 4 everywhere in this universe (apart from parallel ones)