Antibiotics - colds with respiratory infections

[Lazy Sod]

I have seasonal asthma. Whenever I get a cold it nearly always goes on my chest and I have a heavy cough, green thick mucus, wheezing and generally feel deprived of oxygen and exhausted. When I visit the docs in Thailand they'll normally prescribe antibiotics saying I've probably got bronchitis. For me the antibiotics normally work and I start to feel better after 2-3 days.

Considering all the stuff on the internet about colds being caused by viruses and that antibiotics are useless I've tried to last out this particular heavy cold to see if it clears up by itself. . .nope, after 2 weeks I can still feel my airways are sore and inflamed and I feel awful. Should I continue to follow the mainstream view and wait and wait, or get to the doctors for the usual dose of antibiotics. Any thoughts?

I'm not going to argue with scientists that say antibiotics don't kill viruses, I'm convinced that is true, but I'm wondering if people like me are very susceptible to secondary bacterial infections whenever we get cold viruses.

Most of the websites telling us not to take antibiotics for colds have a disclaimer along the lines of, "You may only need antibiotics if complications such as bronchitis develop or if underlying health problems, such as diabetes or asthma, require them." But actually none of those "underlying health problems" such as asthma are normally caused by bacteria, even bronchitis, as WebMD says, "Most often, the same viruses that give you a cold or the flu also cause bronchitis."

In summary, the mainsteam view that antibiotics don't work for colds, particularly cold related respiratory infections, does not match my own experience. Wonder if others have the same experience, or not. There must be a reason why doctors here continue to prescribe antibiotics for stubborn coughs, it can't all be brushed off by saying they are over prescribing, they must be witnessing some benefit in their long careers.

I remember one time I waited a long time before seeing the doctor with a particularly bad respiratory infection (following the mainstream advice in the West to wait 3 weeks), the doctor at Samitivej admonished me saying I should have visited earlier as I had a respiratory infection! She prescribed antibiotics and it cleared up in a few days. What's going on.

[mommysboy]

It's not practicable to do expensive tests for minor respiratory issues.  Thus, the doctor has to use his/her judgement in accordance with guidelines.  In Thailand that appears to be treat as if super infection is likely, ie, bacterial infection is likely to follow from the virus.  And this board and your experience shows why this is a reasonable assumption.

 

I think the general advice is to seek medical advice if a cold lasts more than a week.

 

Yes, if one suffers a heavy cold then we might be coughing for weeks afterwards, because membranes are very sensitive and take a long while to settle.

 

Bacterial infection is often denoted by a feeling that the cold keeps coming back, and phlegm that is yellow/green, and quite copious.

 

Colds are often more troublesome in places like Bangkok where there are a lot of irritants in the air.

[Lazy Sod]

My phlegm at the moment is yellow/green, coughing up in lumps, does that indicate a bacterial infection? This definately started as a cold a couple of weeks ago. Actually, like I said in the original post, almost every cold I get ends up with a chest infection and yellow/green phlegm so I'm wondering if I simply get a secondary bacterial infection most times that I get a cold (perhaps my asthma combined with the cold virus somehow opens me up to bacterial infection more than others).

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, Lazy Sod said:

My phlegm at the moment is yellow/green, coughing up in lumps, does that indicate a bacterial infection? This definately started as a cold a couple of weeks ago. Actually, like I said in the original post, almost every cold I get ends up with a chest infection and yellow/green phlegm so I'm wondering if I simply get a secondary bacterial infection most times that I get a cold (perhaps my asthma combined with the cold virus somehow opens me up to bacterial infection more than others).

 

5 minutes ago, Lazy Sod said:

My phlegm at the moment is yellow/green, coughing up in lumps, does that indicate a bacterial infection? This definately started as a cold a couple of weeks ago. Actually, like I said in the original post, almost every cold I get ends up with a chest infection and yellow/green phlegm so I'm wondering if I simply get a secondary bacterial infection most times that I get a cold (perhaps my asthma combined with the cold virus somehow opens me up to bacterial infection more than others).

 

Yes, it is very likely you have a bacterial infection, but I am not a doctor.  And yes, it is likely you are more prone to them if you have existing health issues (in my case I tend to suffer allergies).

 

You probably need a course of antibiotics but dont self prescribe.

 

Wait 'til a moderator posts.

[Eff1n2ret]

25 minutes ago, Lazy Sod said:

My phlegm at the moment is yellow/green, coughing up in lumps, does that indicate a bacterial infection? This definately started as a cold a couple of weeks ago. Actually, like I said in the original post, almost every cold I get ends up with a chest infection and yellow/green phlegm so I'm wondering if I simply get a secondary bacterial infection most times that I get a cold (perhaps my asthma combined with the cold virus somehow opens me up to bacterial infection more than others).

You have my heartfelt sympathy, I suffer exactly the same way as you. Throughout my 70+ years my colds have normally  turned into bronchitis and require antibiotics to shift them. I do try "toughing it out" and avoid taking antibiotics for as long as possible, but once an infection gets past my throat it almost always turns bacterial.  My experience during 7 years retired in Thailand is that asthma and chest infections hit me slightly less frequently than they did in England, but nowadays I turn to antibiotics very quickly once a cold starts, because I've ended up in hospital a couple of times when the infection and asthma have got out of control because I thought I could beat them without antibiotics.

Get yourself treated.

[teddog]

Yep  when does a virus infection turn to a bacterial infection?  Good candidate for chest infection.   Someone here did describe different type of antibiotic   Doxy something, Im giving that a go next time  and get a puffer  they are cheap

[mommysboy]

40 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

You have my heartfelt sympathy, I suffer exactly the same way as you. Throughout my 70+ years my colds have normally  turned into bronchitis and require antibiotics to shift them. I do try "toughing it out" and avoid taking antibiotics for as long as possible, but once an infection gets past my throat it almost always turns bacterial.  My experience during 7 years retired in Thailand is that asthma and chest infections hit me slightly less frequently than they did in England, but nowadays I turn to antibiotics very quickly once a cold starts, because I've ended up in hospital a couple of times when the infection and asthma have got out of control because I thought I could beat them without antibiotics.

Get yourself treated.

 

It would be easier if you took antibiotics 3 or 4 days in to the cold maybe. Save yourself a lot of grief.  Perhaps see a doctor next time you get a cold and explain the problem.

[Lazy Sod]

20 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

You have my heartfelt sympathy, I suffer exactly the same way as you. Throughout my 70+ years my colds have normally  turned into bronchitis and require antibiotics to shift them. I do try "toughing it out" and avoid taking antibiotics for as long as possible, but once an infection gets past my throat it almost always turns bacterial.  My experience during 7 years retired in Thailand is that asthma and chest infections hit me slightly less frequently than they did in England, but nowadays I turn to antibiotics very quickly once a cold starts, because I've ended up in hospital a couple of times when the infection and asthma have got out of control because I thought I could beat them without antibiotics.

Get yourself treated.

And you have my sympathy, almost the same situation. The main reason I posted this topic is to find out if it was only me that always seems to get a bacterial infection after a heavy cold. I have many friends who get colds and they seem to carry on as normal and recover in a few days, but I get a week of the typical cold symptoms and then it migrates to my chest and I feel worse and worse until I start on the antibiotics. I've tested this by waiting and waiting, but the infection doesn't clear for weeks, then I take the antibiotics and feel much better in 2-4 days. After many doctor's antibiotic prescriptions for bronchitis over the 25+ years I have lived here I know which antibiotics work best for me with minimal side effects, and so I normally have a box at home which I buy from boots. I know it goes against the self-prescribing rule, but some of the antibiotics I've been given by doctors here make me feel sicker and I know my body. I can't see the point in visiting a doctor today as they don't test for bacteria, they will normally just sound my chest and prescribe antibiotics of their choice, sometimes of a type which makes me feel sicker. A few minutes ago I started on the usual antibiotics which work for me bought from boots, I've had enough of waiting 'for nature to take its course'.

But all of this begs the question, are we being mislead a little bit in the West that antibiotics are almost useless for normal respiratory infections, all we here is that colds are a virus and that antibiotics are useless, but my own experience and yours indicates that for some of us antibiotics are often necessary because secondary bacterial infections are quite common for some people. I understand doctors in the west are under orders to limit antibiotics due to resistance which is a big problem for humanity in the future, but for me personally (and selfishly) if they clear my infection in 3-4 days vs feeling terrible for weeks then I'll take 'em.

[Jessi]

Lazy Sod: I have the same problem as you, in fact it runs in my entire family

my Brothers and my Children. I start the Antibiotics early & it saves me a lot of grief.

[mommysboy]

I dont understand your concern, other than you are feeling sick of course.  Clearly need to get something off your chest!  Understandable.

 

1. A cold is caused by a virus: antibiotics are not appropriate because they are anti-microbial.

2. But, yes antibiotics do cure bacterial infections that run on from the cold.

3. People who are prone to bacterial infection often receive different treatment.

4. People without risk factors are not generally prescribed antibiotics. Their continued coughing tends to be because it takes a long while for airways to settle.

 

Nobody is misleading you.

 

Self-prescription is not advisable.  If it is about cost, government hospitals are very affordable, and will also give you a once over for BP, and do a blood check if thought necessary.

 

When people report difficulties with antibiotics, it can be that they are not taking them as instructed, eg, after meals, or at the correct dosage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lazy Sod]

Thanks for your input. To clarify, the NHS website in the UK (below) is the kind of thing I am referring to, recommending 3 weeks before seeing a doctor. If I followed this advice I'd be quite sick for 6 to 9 weeks  a year. My elderly mother is similar to me and she almost has to beg the GP for antibiotics after suffering with chest infections for weeks, the UK GP's standard response is take paracetamol and come back in 2 weeks if no improvement. I think many Brits reading this will know what I mean (especially those prone to secondary bacterial infections). In contrast Thai doctors are critized for giving antibiotics too quickly. Who is right, I don't know medically, but from my experience I benefit from early dosing of antibiotics in Thailand which would be quite difficult to obtain in the UK.

When to see your GP

If you or your child has a cold, there's usually no need to see your GP as it should clear within a week or two.

You only really need to contact your GP if:

• your symptoms persist for more than three weeks 
• your symptoms get suddenly worse 
• you have breathing difficulties 
• you develop complications of a cold, such as chest pain or coughing up bloodstained mucus

[mommysboy]

The last sentence does say "you develop complications of a cold".

 

Who is right?  Well in the case of your mother, I'd say not the GP that's for sure!

 

And logically, well Thai doctors hand them out too quickly.  A cold tends to last a week and that is when they should really be issued.  But then that requires a second visit to the doctor, so practicalities must be considered.

 

I think you would be well within remit for treatment.  I understand what you are saying, it's like nothing is certain or easy to interpret these days.  In UK, my doctor would likely be  be aware of my sinus problem and prescribe appropriately.  I think he'd give you and me a flu shot too.

..

The rules are there to prevent abuse of antibiotics.  People were going along for all sorts of minor problems and almost demanding antibiotics.  A wider issue is antibiotic resistance.  I would hazrd a guess they are being kept back for more serious infections while they are still good. 

 

Your symptoms are very unpleasant and you must be knackered by now.  I sympathize.

Edited March 9, 2017 by mommysboy

[Eff1n2ret]

15 hours ago, Lazy Sod said:

But all of this begs the question, are we being mislead a little bit in the West that antibiotics are almost useless for normal respiratory infections, all we here is that colds are a virus and that antibiotics are useless, but my own experience and yours indicates that for some of us antibiotics are often necessary because secondary bacterial infections are quite common for some people. I understand doctors in the west are under orders to limit antibiotics due to resistance which is a big problem for humanity in the future, but for me personally (and selfishly) if they clear my infection in 3-4 days vs feeling terrible for weeks then I'll take 'em.

It's not selfish of people like us to take antibiotics, we haven't any choice and would quite possibly have died long ago from complications like pneumonia if we hadn't been able to suppress respiratory bacterial infections. It is undeniable that world health is at risk because of the inappropriate prescription of antibiotics, and every time now when I get a chest infection I wonder if this will be the time when the antibiotics don't work. But it's not our fault.

I keep a few days' supply of amoxycillin so as I can catch an infection at its early stages, because it seems to me that in tropical heat and humidity, infections can get out of control very quickly, and as I said before, my attempts to tough it out have landed me in hospital a couple of times. If the amoxicillin doesn't work I go to the doctor - there's a decent clinic nearby with good facilities and well-trained doctors. Thank goodness I don't have the problem too often, but I've learned the hard way not to hope for the best when the wheezing and congestion takes hold.

I would hate having to sit in a surgery in England and beg the doctor to give me a course of antibiotics because he/she is limited by some guidelines as to how often they can be prescribed.

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

It's not selfish of people like us to take antibiotics, we haven't any choice and would quite possibly have died long ago from complications like pneumonia if we hadn't been able to suppress respiratory bacterial infections. It is undeniable that world health is at risk because of the inappropriate prescription of antibiotics, and every time now when I get a chest infection I wonder if this will be the time when the antibiotics don't work. But it's not our fault.

I keep a few days' supply of amoxycillin so as I can catch an infection at its early stages, because it seems to me that in tropical heat and humidity, infections can get out of control very quickly, and as I said before, my attempts to tough it out have landed me in hospital a couple of times. If the amoxicillin doesn't work I go to the doctor - there's a decent clinic nearby with good facilities and well-trained doctors. Thank goodness I don't have the problem too often, but I've learned the hard way not to hope for the best when the wheezing and congestion takes hold.

I would hate having to sit in a surgery in England and beg the doctor to give me a course of antibiotics because he/she is limited by some guidelines as to how often they can be prescribed.

The balloon went up on antibiotics a long time ago.  The most likely source being inappropriate use in farming.  I agree: if you need them you need them.  After all that is their purpose.

[Speedo1968]

Drink pee !

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Drink pee !

Blimey!

 

I assure you, nobody would want mine.

[Speedo1968]

On 3/11/2017 at 9:23 AM, mommysboy said:

Blimey!

 

I assure you, nobody would want mine.

Each to their own - as they say.

I am talking about urine therapy which, unfortunately, is still seen as quackery ( just as acupuncture and chiropractory where in the past ).

[dddave]

I've had similar respiratory infections over the years.  A close friend who is also a rheumatologist explained that you really can not accurately determine whether an infection is viral or bacterial by phlegm color as there are many factors involved.

I have had a few close calls where a "cold" has morphed into severe bronchitis, risking pneumonia so I treat symptoms very aggressively when they appear.  

First, the simplest: aspirin,  lots of water, vitamin-C and rest.  Often, that seems to fend an incipient infection off but if it progresses from sore throat and sniffles to a cough, at age 73 I don't take chances and start a course of my antibiotic of choice; a Thai clone of Augmentin (B2500/10 tab.) called Cavumox, (B350/10tab) basically Amoxcillin with Clavulanic Acid potassium added. There are several other Thai clones available but I can't recall their names.

This seems to work really well for me and I haven't had a progression to Bronchitis for many years now.

Edited March 17, 2017 by dddave

[al007]

Interesting thread, I continue to learn

 

At the moment I am recovering from 2/3 weeks of cough and cold, my immune system is still low, due to Chemo and Radiation in the last four months, both my red and white count are low

 

I always understood antibiotics are not for colds and coughs, so I stayed with double doses of  Soluble Vitamin C with zinc and double multivitamins, and I think it has worked

 

I have been worried because of my general low immune system, and the concensus view I get is be ready to hit it with antibodies if in doubt it is spreading, sound advice

 

As a relatively old man the worst risk of starting antibiotics early is they have no effect

 

Thank you all, I will stock up with antibiotics just in case

 

I cruised the oceans for many years and used to have a medicine chest with many antibiotics and heavy prescription drugs  and some psychiatric drugs like Haldol, so if ever we were four or five days from shore and had a problem, we could radio and ask for assistance, and at least had a list of what we had, that I could read to the doctor and he would tell us what to prescribe, I used to have to watch the sell by dates

[scubascuba3]

My way of dealing with colds/sore throats is immediately buy leopard medicine from 7-11 19 baht, its bronchial cough mixture and stops a chest infection getting a grip. I also gargle salt water at least before i go to sleep.

That usually helps me get rid of what I'm coming down with in a few days.

[mommysboy]

On 19/03/2017 at 4:55 PM, al007 said:

Interesting thread, I continue to learn

 

At the moment I am recovering from 2/3 weeks of cough and cold, my immune system is still low, due to Chemo and Radiation in the last four months, both my red and white count are low

 

I always understood antibiotics are not for colds and coughs, so I stayed with double doses of  Soluble Vitamin C with zinc and double multivitamins, and I think it has worked

 

I have been worried because of my general low immune system, and the concensus view I get is be ready to hit it with antibodies if in doubt it is spreading, sound advice

 

As a relatively old man the worst risk of starting antibiotics early is they have no effect

 

Thank you all, I will stock up with antibiotics just in case

 

I cruised the oceans for many years and used to have a medicine chest with many antibiotics and heavy prescription drugs  and some psychiatric drugs like Haldol, so if ever we were four or five days from shore and had a problem, we could radio and ask for assistance, and at least had a list of what we had, that I could read to the doctor and he would tell us what to prescribe, I used to have to watch the sell by dates

 

Sounds like you have been through the mill lately.  Just wanted to wish you a speedy recovery.

[al007]

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Sounds like you have been through the mill lately.  Just wanted to wish you a speedy recovery.

Thank you for your kind comments 

 

I consider myself to be a lucky man

 

Yes and god bless all  a very lucky and appreciative man

[sinbin]

On 3/9/2017 at 1:49 PM, Lazy Sod said:

I have seasonal asthma. Whenever I get a cold it nearly always goes on my chest and I have a heavy cough, green thick mucus, wheezing and generally feel deprived of oxygen and exhausted. When I visit the docs in Thailand they'll normally prescribe antibiotics saying I've probably got bronchitis. For me the antibiotics normally work and I start to feel better after 2-3 days.

Lazy Sod have you read this thread? 

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by sinbin

[Lazy Sod]

1 hour ago, sinbin said:

Lazy Sod have you read this thread? 

 

Just read it, interesting stuff.

[sinbin]

43 minutes ago, Lazy Sod said:

Just read it, interesting stuff.

As I said in the thread, I was diagnosed by numerous doctors with Bronchitis, Asthma and unexplained chronic cough only to find out I'd been misdiagnosed for a long time. A second, third opinion does no harm. Good luck.