Who would have thought ?

[benalibina]

Am married to a thai woman and we have 3 children. See profilephoto. 

 

The children live with sister of wife in a provincial city. Not ban og. They go to templeschool. I live abroad and wife lives and works in Patong as....

 

Many things have happened last 3/4 years which i was not able to come here and change things/nor allowed to have a normal longdistanceelationship with my children. Meaning no phone contact, no birthdaymessages etc etc. It is clear that my wife does not want that i am involved seriously in the life of our 3 children. She has achieved that by emotionally abusing, manipulating and brainwashing my twindaughters. This all executed on a daily basis by her evil sister ( and her 2 daughters). My son is reasonably free from it all but i see on a daily basis the effects of faulty condioning. I am now near my kids. I could write alot about, giving examples, the abuse etc but that is not the reason of my post.

 

Before i went to see the kids i wanted to hear from a Thai psychologist about her opinion of what i had to say about abuse etc. She had difficulty in understanding the matter of abuse, brainwashing and parental alienation. But she gave me the websitelink of a local children and family wellfare organization. So i went there before i would go to see the kids at their school.

 

In my best thai i explained them about the abuse etc. Later a woman of 25 joined as she spoke english....well really...she spoke like a kid halfway his 1st year of learning english...so she started to speak thai with me too. Anyway...after 30 minutes of talking a male worker of the shelter asked me....do you want us to do something ? No, i replied, because i have no confidence that you understand the issue of why i come here. 30 minutes later he asked me again...same answer from me. They were kind, i thought, to take me to kids school. Arriving there i went to buy a coke, as i was thirsty, and sat down. Suddenly i saw 2 workers walking upstairs to my kids's class. I was baffled to see that. I asked the woman, when she came down and who could speak some english, <deleted> are you doing as i told you not to do anything. Kotoot kotoot kotoot, i only follow my collegue. Anyway...2 weeks later, as the situation  regarding normal contact with my daughters deteriorated. Reason....manipulation, for 1 daughter, the brainwashing is IN her, and etc, i decided to call them to help. I spoke with 1 male worker, who asked me before about if i wanted them to help and he went as well to kids classroom. What he told me baffled me again. The sister is a good woman who loves the kids and takes good care for them and the kids are happy. You better sent some money for them so they can have better housing. Totally no mention of me being important as a loving dad in the kids life. He also told...no brainwashing, abuse and manipulation is taking place. These behind my back actions forced me to go back there and tell them how sneaky and ignorant they are. They were not happy with my visit.

 

In the week that followed i also spoke with the head of the school which my kids attend. I asked him, as a man of some authority to call my wife or fat evil sister to let my daughters stay freely with me. As i am their father. Suddenly in the conversation he asked where i stay. I rent a house i replied, big enough to accomodate all my kids. How much you pay rent, he asked. I shook my head in disbelief and told him nonsensical ...bht 20.000 a month. Needless to say that despite his promise to do so, he never contacted me again. Btw, i see him daily when i take my son to school.

 

I thought about what to do next....eventhough i do not really have the time and thus money to go for a courtcase and hire a lawyer, i went to look for one. I met crooks, ones who could speak english but who not understood the issue of emotional abuse. Finally i met a thai lawyer, he spoke no english,  but he somewhat understood the issue. He forwarded me to child and family court here. I went next day. They sent me to a provincial legal consulting office. There they wanted to get an agreement about childvisitation between me and wife/sister. I thought if kids stay with me i can release them, somewhat at least, from all the wrong things which have been put in their mind and heart. Next day the meeting was arranged and in the last minute i found a translator. Spoke with her an hour about my situation and abuse to my kids. She said she understood and told me to let her do the talking.

 

Fat evil sister showed up with her 21 yr old daughter, who attends a local university. The lies and fabrications were flying over the table and i really thought the people from that office could see and hear the evil, their background and nonsense they sprouted. The fat one even sent her daughter to pick up my kids from school. Ofcourse my daughters did not want to stay fulltime with me....they cant make fatty unhappy or sad ofcourse. So my translator got me weekendvisits for the daughters. Swell swell. She was more interested in being found nice than actually achieving a good deal for me. She asked me in the car on the way back...how did i do it....i remained silent. At that provincial office nobody wondered about the fact that i as a father come there to get to see my OWN daughters on a normal basis. And talk with a person who is not the mother. Crazy crazy ! Needless to say that last weekend the daughters were not there when i went to pick them up.

 

After talking with a private psychologist, who seemed helpfull and understanding, i went on her advice to a provincial organization. After speaking in thai for 30 minutes they sent  a woman who could speak english. Guess guess the same as i spoke with at the shelter. I talked, and explained again the whole issue of emotional abuse, but it was a no go. She said i had to understand Thai culture. Yeah right i told her....everyday when i take my son to school i see thai culture, they really care for kids. 1 helmet available and the kid wears no helmet but the parent always does. Thats thai culture for you and how the thais view kids. Disgraceful. I went back to same psychologist for make an appointment for my son. She could not help anymore she said, to my surprise. 

 

As i had already been to the police too i was thinking ....what more can i do to get some results on a normal and decent way.....Childline in Bkk. Read their website and called them. Spoke in english with a woman and she asked me to write an email and give examples about the abuse etc..so i did...quite a long email in which i mentioned 41 counts of emotional abuse..many light ones but with all the examples i had given they for sure must be able to see a pattern of emotional abuse, i thought. After 4 days of no reply, i called them. We are working on it a woman replied. After 10 days of no reply i called them again. What do you want us to do a woman asked. What is your conclusion based on the email i sent, abuse or no abuse, i asked.Somebody will call you next week, the employee replied. Well this wednesday a woman called, head of Childline i think. I have never heard a Thai speak so good english as her. After me telling main parts of what i wrote in the email. She had read it, she said. She came back to me on a dominant way after talking 45 minutes pleasantly. She said i needed to solve this with my wife and that it was better if i went to Phuket to talk to her. Earlier in the call she said that i needed to find proof that she is working as a prozzie ?? Sudden change. A day later we spoke again and she repeated her words on a dominant way. It was not possible for me to say anything.

 

A day later i sent Childline a mail. Bottomline was that they not understand anything about emotional abuse and that it is normal for kids to NOT live with the mother but with her sister while she, the mother, works as a prozzie in Patong, and when i, as a loving father can take care and raise them. Also that for them  it is okay for adults to brainwash and manipulate innocent young kids. Also that they cannot see that i worry alot because if those animals already succeed in emotionally abusing kids, what will be next when they are older ?

 

My conclusion after trying to solve my family matters related to my kids  last 6 weeks by contacting the appropriate people and organizations is....Thai help only Thai....despite what the law states, fathers are not viewed as that important (matriarchal society)... many people working for themselves or for the organizations,  seem at first glance quite helpfull but when the moment comes that they need to take action, the thai culture card is being played and they do nothing....children are of a lesser god in this society, maybe even that here it is acceptable to bully/manipulate and emotionally abuse children.

 

Who would have thought.....Thai only help Thai !

 

[benalibina]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

 

Of what i have experienced....it still applies today. Everything that endangers Thainess must be stopped !

[FritsSikkink]

I think you need to step back a little. Due to circumstances beyond your control you haven't been in their live for a while and you have been pictured like a bad man.

Don't try to change that in a day by going to all sorts of people to get them on your side. Now you have them in the weekends just show them that you are a good father to them and do nice things with them.

Things won't change overnight but they will start to see you are not the person who they have been told you are. They will start to like/love you and then (not after 2 /3 months) you can ask for more days custody at the family court. Don't talk bad about their family they will find out themselves as they grow older. You need a lot of patience and don't lose your temper.

Good luck.

[benalibina]

39 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I think you need to step back a little. Due to circumstances beyond your control you haven't been in their live for a while and you have been pictured like a bad man.

Don't try to change that in a day by going to all sorts of people to get them on your side. Now you have them in the weekends just show them that you are a good father to them and do nice things with them.

Things won't change overnight but they will start to see you are not the person who they have been told you are. They will start to like/love you and then (not after 2 /3 months) you can ask for more days custody at the family court. Don't talk bad about their family they will find out themselves as they grow older. You need a lot of patience and don't lose your temper.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply. I hope you do understand that abuse is taking place. My kids, but lets focus on my daughters, they already have shown very quickly natural loving feelings towards me. The more they started to like and love me, again,  as me being THEIR OWN FATHER, the more the evil aunt dislikes it. 1 daughter felt a couple of weeks ago sorry for her evil aunt because she spents time with me. So every time my daughters, after staying with me, go back they, the evil aunt and her daughter, have enough time to put things in their head/heart in order to dislike or distrust me. I see the consequences of that and as a father, been away for long or not, it is my duty, within my, financial too, means to stop that.

 

The reason, as outlined in my topic, why i am not able to do it on a civilized way, is....thai help only thai.

Edited March 11, 2017 by benalibina

[FritsSikkink]

25 minutes ago, benalibina said:

Thanks for your reply. I hope you do understand that abuse is taking place. My kids, but lets focus on my daughters, they already have shown very quickly natural loving feelings towards me. The more they started to like and love me, again,  as me being THEIR OWN FATHER, the more the evil aunt dislikes it. 1 daughter felt a couple of weeks ago sorry for her evil aunt because she spents time with me. So every time my daughters, after staying with me, go back they, the evil aunt and her daughter, have enough time to put things in their head/heart in order to dislike or distrust me. I see the consequences of that and as a father, been away for long or not, it is my duty, within my, financial too, means to stop that.

 

The reason, as outlined in my topic, why i am not able to do it on a civilized way, is....thai help only thai.

I do understand but the best way to handle this for the long run is to do it like I proposed. As they grow older they will recognize the evil things and dislike the their self. It is your duty to take care of your kids the best you can, not to drag them in a power struggle because that isn't good for them. Swallow your pride, show them by example you are the better parent and they will find out later on their own and voluntarily choose your side. You have to play the long game and don't fight a war through your kids. 

[FritsSikkink]

The Thai only help Thai isn't always true but you need to change your tactics.

[benalibina]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

The Thai only help Thai isn't always true but you need to change your tactics.

Ofcourse it is not but....when it can harm Thainess, see the link in post nr 2, it is true.

 

About changing tactics....thought about that too....perhaps i heed to become a better bully than all of them. Decency just doesnt do the trick, of what i have seen. Sadly enough !

 

I have nothing to lose...neither have my kids !

 

If you become a father one day, you will understand.

[FritsSikkink]

6 minutes ago, benalibina said:

Ofcourse it is not but....when it can harm Thainess, see the link in post nr 2, it is true.

 

About changing tactics....thought about that too....perhaps i heed to become a better bully than all of them. Decency just doesnt do the trick, of what i have seen. Sadly enough !

 

I have nothing to lose...neither have my kids !

 

If you become a father one day, you will understand.

I have been a father longer than you but if you don't want to listen to advice and only look for confimation, do it your way.

Edited March 11, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[benalibina]

10 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I have been a father longer than you but if you don't want to listen to advice and only look for confimation, do it your way.

Ok dad. I do not look for confirmation. I would gladly read that i am wrong in relation to my topic. Because it would mean that i have just been very unfortunate in meeting the many people, from different walks of working life, as i did. Then there is still hope for me to get matters done on a civilized way.

 

About not listening to your advice. Based on my knowledge of the matter in hand.... emotional abuse by brainwashing, manipulation, faulty conditioning and, on a personal note, the total eradication of having 6a father in the children's life. ERASURE ! Children follow the ones who look after them. I have already seen that a once very nice girl, daughter of evil aunt, has become now a copy of her own mother. One of my daughters is been made so dependant on her aunt that the brainwashibg is in her. She was once my heartsdaughter. If i do nothing then in my (family)name the cycle of abuse will continue. 

 

I really appreciate the effort you have made to comment on this topic, thanks for that.

[claffey]

It's not easy but you need a good lawyer specializing in family law. You will also need quite a lot of money. It may be possible to settle this out of court by coming to a financial settlement with your ex wife and her manipulative sister. I have read here of similar cases where the kids have been released into their Dad's custody after a large payment to the kids Mom. 

 

I have also read of many cases where the family court has awarded custody to the Foreign Dad so don't give up on winning a legal battle. The key to all of this is money. If you don't have any it's gonna be a tough battle to win.. That's why the head of their school asked you how much rent do you pay. If you told him over a 100,000 instead of 20,000 he would've listened more.

 

Good luck and please keep us updated. 

[benalibina]

8 hours ago, claffey said:

It's not easy but you need a good lawyer specializing in family law. You will also need quite a lot of money. It may be possible to settle this out of court by coming to a financial settlement with your ex wife and her manipulative sister. I have read here of similar cases where the kids have been released into their Dad's custody after a large payment to the kids Mom. 

 

I have also read of many cases where the family court has awarded custody to the Foreign Dad so don't give up on winning a legal battle. The key to all of this is money. If you don't have any it's gonna be a tough battle to win.. That's why the head of their school asked you how much rent do you pay. If you told him over a 100,000 instead of 20,000 he would've listened more.

 

Good luck and please keep us updated. 

Thanks for your reply....money is the only thing i dont have but giving up on my children is not an option, as of yet. To see their smiles, when they dont think and only play like children do, makes the struggle/battle worthwhile. You could be right about the headmaster but 20k is alot overhere. For 100k i can rent a whole village here.

[Norrad]

Are you listed as the father on their birth certificates? Because if you are you don't need anyone's permission to have your kids live with you, unless full custody has been granted to the mother, but then they would have to be living with her and not the aunt.

[Rc2702]

3 beautiful kids.

 

May I ask how your son is pretty much free from it all but if I have this correctly, your daughters are far more affected?

 

I have witnessed something similar but I do not want to inject anything into this scenario.

 

I would like you to list examples of each type of abuse so we can fully understand your concerns.

 

Chin up.

 

 

[benalibina]

9 hours ago, Norrad said:

Are you listed as the father on their birth certificates? Because if you are you don't need anyone's permission to have your kids live with you, unless full custody has been granted to the mother, but then they would have to be living with her and not the aunt.

Hi,

 

Yes i am listed as father on bc. The fact that 2 out of 3 kids were aluenated has complicated matters. My son was never a real issue but my daghters were. I have even been to Patong to talk with wife. Result as expected ...negative. On a non damaging way for 1 daughter and son, they both stay with me here now,  i have told them that whatever happens their days with their aunt are over. My son is okay with that, my daughter is 50/50 on it. 1 daughter is too severely alienated that on a normal way it is not possible for now to get her with me.

[benalibina]

6 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

3 beautiful kids.

 

May I ask how your son is pretty much free from it all but if I have this correctly, your daughters are far more affected?

 

I have witnessed something similar but I do not want to inject anything into this scenario.

 

I would like you to list examples of each type of abuse so we can fully understand your concerns.

 

Chin up.

 

 

Hi,

 

My son is relative free from due to fact that....he is not interesting for them. The twindaughters are the prize. They are lovely, smart and will be /are Beautiful? I think you can figure out the rest. I need to say though that he is a very goodlooking boy but he is been very conditioned in the way how boys are seen/treated in ban og. He is frankly spoken been kept stupid. Last 10 weeks He gas only asked me 1 "serious" question.Its saddens me to see it.

 

Type of abuse is "only emotional...as described in topic.

 

 

[Rc2702]

5 hours ago, benalibina said:

Hi,

 

My son is relative free from due to fact that....he is not interesting for them. The twindaughters are the prize. They are lovely, smart and will be /are Beautiful? I think you can figure out the rest. I need to say though that he is a very goodlooking boy but he is been very conditioned in the way how boys are seen/treated in ban og. He is frankly spoken been kept stupid. Last 10 weeks He gas only asked me 1 "serious" question.Its saddens me to see it.

 

Type of abuse is "only emotional...as described in topic.

 

 

Difficult to talk about as if what you are describing as emotional abuse may be heavily engrained in many children within thailand and is what makes a good support system in Thailand.  (Family- help to elders when they are older)

 

Prize- Again I think you are right that was my guess because that is so common amongst every part of society here.

 

Can you imagine how Torn your children will be if you begin to question all they have been taught. When they are at school they may inquire with other children and is it not more likely the other kids will have the same conditioning?

 

I seen an example of this with a 10 year old girl. She was housed by her fathers family. At 6 years old a breakdown occurred at the household she was in  she was dumped at the mothers parents house. Her mom worked in a factory and after receiving the news quit her job in a factory and headed back to her parents. 3 days in and she was taking her child to school - 200 metre walk, her child immediately acted out at having to walk and Compared her grandmothers car and motorbike to her current situation and had a temper tantrum. Awful situation to have a young child judge like that at such a young age. Kids should not be worried or even thinking like that.

 

It's great your committed and if you can house and support them then that's great but only if you are not at risk, after all, i'd rather have a father for the weekend than no father at all. 

 

Good luck with it all but as always be very careful.

 

 

[benalibina]

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Rc2702 said:

Diffithe nult to talkeaodnisbout as if what you are inescribing  as emotionccl tabuse may be heavily engraina goosd in many chiledren within thailand and is what make if a good support system in Thailand.  (Family- help to elders when they are older)

 

Prize- Again I think you are right that was my guess because that is so common amongst every part of society here.

 

Can you imagine how Torn your children will be if you begin to question all they have been taught. When they are at school they may inquire with other children and is it not more likely the other kids will have the same conditioning?

 

I seen an example of this with a 10 year old girl. She was housed by her fathers family. At 6 years old a breakdown occurred at the household she was in  she was dumped at the mothers parents house. Her mom worked in a factory and after receiving the news quit her job in a factory and headed back to her parents. 3 days in and she was taking her child to school - 200 metre walk, her child immediately acted out at having to walk and Compared her grandmothers car and motorbike to her current situation and had a temper tantrum. Awful situation to have a young child judge like that at such a young age. Kids should not be worried or even thinking like that.

 

It's great your committed and if you can house and support them then that's great but only if you are not at risk, after all, i'd rather have a father for the weekend than no father at all. 

 

Good luck with it all but as always be very careful.

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

It truly seems that Indeed manipulation Is Integrated In certain segments of Thai society but what Is evenmore worrying Is that the people and organizations myself has spoken with cares one Iota about the childrens emotional wellbeing. Like Its governmentsponsored.

 

My daughter told me In a neutral manner last night that a kid at her school had told her........farang keenok........Okay I replied.....then you are halve keenok as well. Can only hope that this makes her and my son think. The point u mentioned about....torn apart....IS  a good one. Funny enough, we went yesterday to a swimmingpark and In the kidspool several kids came to me and started talking and asking questions. So they are there....Inquisitive minds.

 

What annoys me Is that the kids comment on all I buy. They want to know the price and always comment....peng maag. Not ofcourse when I buy 3 Icecreams a day for them. Its not healthy to talk about those things when one Is 9 and 10 years old. It has 1 advantage though....I let my kids pay the bill at a restaurant or hotel where we consume food and/or drinks. They dont give any tips ! As far as luxury Is concerned for them.....the only way Is up.

 

I am not afraid of anything here......the ones responsible for the kids are plain cowards and they are supported by Thainess only. I not want to damage my kids more than they already, unknowingly, have been but I

[benalibina]

But I, as a father, will need to think about short term pain with longterm gain. I sincerely hope it doesnt come to that. I fear however that in an environment of enablers it will come to that. Not any reasonable loving and caring parent would want to hurt their own kids. Sadly enough.....damage done already.

 

Sorry for not being able to finish my reply before.....hickups by my old tablet.

[Social Media]

What ages are the children and how long has this been going on ?

[benalibina]

3 hours ago, Black Ops said:

What ages are the children and how long has this been going on ?

9, 9 and 10. 

 

4 years.

[colinchaffers]

Amazing, thanks for this

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 11:30 AM, benalibina said:

Thanks for your reply.

 

It truly seems that Indeed manipulation Is Integrated In certain segments of Thai society but what Is evenmore worrying Is that the people and organizations myself has spoken with cares one Iota about the childrens emotional wellbeing. Like Its governmentsponsored.

 

My daughter told me In a neutral manner last night that a kid at her school had told her........farang keenok........Okay I replied.....then you are halve keenok as well. Can only hope that this makes her and my son think. The point u mentioned about....torn apart....IS  a good one. Funny enough, we went yesterday to a swimmingpark and In the kidspool several kids came to me and started talking and asking questions. So they are there....Inquisitive minds.

 

What annoys me Is that the kids comment on all I buy. They want to know the price and always comment....peng maag. Not ofcourse when I buy 3 Icecreams a day for them. Its not healthy to talk about those things when one Is 9 and 10 years old. It has 1 advantage though....I let my kids pay the bill at a restaurant or hotel where we consume food and/or drinks. They dont give any tips ! As far as luxury Is concerned for them.....the only way Is up.

 

I am not afraid of anything here......the ones responsible for the kids are plain cowards and they are supported by Thainess only. I not want to damage my kids more than they already, unknowingly, have been but I

"I not want to damage my kids more than they already"

"farang keenok........Okay I replied.....then you are halve keenok as well." that is not the way to not damage them

[benalibina]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

"I not want to damage them more than they already"

"fara.o.ang keenok.....Okay I replied.....then you are halve keenok as well." that is not the way to not damage them

I agree....the money I sent their mother , showing some trust, to buy birthday gifts for the kids was well used, as per their Info...10% was used on food, 5% on gifts, 100 bht shoes a.o for my son...the rest went....?? Thats damaging, dont you agree ? And the kids live happily ever after !

[Been there done that]

You can tell a nation by the way how it treats its children, I suppose !