Merkel meets Trump in clash of style and substance

[daveAustin]

Do you think he will shake her hand or grab her by the thingy? Oh gawd, what a thought!

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Right.  Those terrible American values.  Freedom of speech.  Equality.  Protection of the environment.  Competition and free enterprise.  Nasty stuff. LOL

Haha! Have you been asleep for the last 100 days?

 

Freedom of speech?

Environmental protection?

Equality?

 

You are joking! Aren't you?

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Haha! Have you been asleep for the last 100 days?

 

Freedom of speech?

Environmental protection?

Equality?

 

You are joking! Aren't you?

What laws have been changed?  America is more than Trump and his clowns.

[348GTS]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Haha! Have you been asleep for the last 100 days?

 

Freedom of speech?

Environmental protection?

Equality?

 

You are joking! Aren't you?

 

I think it is fair to say that the lefty liberal pro-Clinton. pro-BLM, pro-illegal immigration SJW's have done more to erode the concept of free speech in the last couple months than one would have thought imaginable. Have you not been watching what is happening on college campuses of late? Hmmmm..... Hope you're not depending on CNN for your news.

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And at the risk of going off topic, this is one reason the Labour Party is falling apart. They have failed to realise that many of their electoral base (as opposed to members) want economic protection AND cultural protection. There is more to running a country than just being a business manager....

Yes. I am as loony left as they come, or at least I thought I was until I saw Labour cramming more and more people into cities woefully unequipped to handle them, the police arresting a man for calling one of their horses 'gay', 'Racist!' shouted every two minutes... Speaking to other Europeans it is the same where they live. No wonder we are in such a bloody mess and the hard right reemerging...

[348GTS]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

Yes. I am as loony left as they come, or at least I thought I was until I saw Labour cramming more and more people into cities woefully unequipped to handle them, the police arresting a man for calling one of their horses 'gay', 'Racist!' shouted every two minutes... Speaking to other Europeans it is the same where they live. No wonder we are in such a bloody mess and the hard right reemerging...

 

Labour have always had their heads in the clouds. Their policies are mosly untenable and not unlike their American counterparts, The Democrats, they promote and agenda designed to expand their voter base rather than what is best for the country. Stories of people being arrested for quoting Churchill etc happen too often now. The left have gone mad. The irony is that the left are so far left now, that even moderate centrist ideas are now touted as "far right".

[ilostmypassword]

52 minutes ago, 348GTS said:

 

Labour have always had their heads in the clouds. Their policies are mosly untenable and not unlike their American counterparts, The Democrats, they promote and agenda designed to expand their voter base rather than what is best for the country. Stories of people being arrested for quoting Churchill etc happen too often now. The left have gone mad. The irony is that the left are so far left now, that even moderate centrist ideas are now touted as "far right".

What far left ideas are the democrats espousing exactly?

And as for "people being arrested for quoting Winston Churchill". It was one UKIP politician who was quoting some nasty things that Churchill wrote about Muslims. One person, not "people". In the USA this wouldn't happen because of the First Amendment. Have you ever considered that the problem may be the UK's laws governing speech? Or is it the fact the it was a Churchill quote that led to this person being arrested that bothers you? Had some other politician been arrested for quoting some hateful Islamic text, would you be protesting that, too?

[348GTS]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What far left ideas are the democrats espousing exactly?

And as for "people being arrested for quoting Winston Churchill". It was one UKIP politician who was quoting some nasty things that Churchill wrote about Muslims. One person, not "people". In the USA this wouldn't happen because of the First Amendment. Have you ever considered that the problem may be the UK's laws governing speech? Or is it the fact the it was a Churchill quote that led to this person being arrested that bothers you? Had some other politician been arrested for quoting some hateful Islamic text, would you be protesting that, too?

 

Yeah I am not going to get into this apart from to make this point - the issue about free speech being eroded is valid and it does only seem to be people on the so-called "right" that are singled out. Apparently it is fine to walk around draped in Isis flags chanting death to the west and calling anyone who disagrees with your views a nazi or whatever other -ist or -obe word happens to be fashionable that week. But don't you dare criticize the bigoted intolerant violent political ideology known as Islam or the EU's immigration agenda, or you will be arrested for "hate speech"! What Churchill (recently voted as the Greatest Briton of all time or something?) may or may not have written about Muslims is irrelevent. The fact is he had the right to write it and the UKIP person (why is his political affiliation relevent?) had every right to quote him. The view that the quotes were "nasty" is purely subjective and should not be relevent. Pretty sure more people would agree with him on those views , in private anyway!

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Well their is only 1 thing she could learn,  proper dress sense.  As for politics she is a stateswoman and he just a conman.

 

Stateswoman - a former communist party official and allegedly connected to the East German Staasi. A woman hell bent on driving European integration, as long as it's rules by Germany via non elected bureaucrats Germany selects and something that has never ever been put to the people of Europe to decide.

 

Arrogant, vain and closed minded. She has one opinion hers. Whilst some of her ministers have admitted the almighty cock up that was made regarding the illegal migrant open door policy she has never showed any remorse or even admitted it wrong. In fact the still blathers it would all have been ok if the others had accepted the quotas she wanted to impose on them.

 

I seriously hope the German people confine her to the history books when the get the chance to vote.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, 348GTS said:

 

Yeah I am not going to get into this apart from to make this point - the issue about free speech being eroded is valid and it does only seem to be people on the so-called "right" that are singled out. Apparently it is fine to walk around draped in Isis flags chanting death to the west and calling anyone who disagrees with your views a nazi or whatever other -ist or -obe word happens to be fashionable that week. But don't you dare criticize the bigoted intolerant violent political ideology known as Islam or the EU's immigration agenda, or you will be arrested for "hate speech"! What Churchill (recently voted as the Greatest Briton of all time or something?) may or may not have written about Muslims is irrelevent. The fact is he had the right to write it and the UKIP person (why is his political affiliation relevent?) had every right to quote him. The view that the quotes were "nasty" is purely subjective and should not be relevent. Pretty sure more people would agree with him on those views , in private anyway!

So, are you contending that the UK doesn't go after people who espouse, for example, hateful jihadist speech?

[348GTS]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, are you contending that the UK doesn't go after people who espouse, for example, hateful jihadist speech?

 

Pretty much. At least not with nearly the same amount of vigour and outgrage as they dedicate towards those who are on the other side of the argument. As I said before, the UK is so far left now that even centrists are considered right wing and anti establishment, and are villified by the "unbiased" media.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

She read physical chemistry and has a PhD in Quantum Mechanics. ( You know, Schroedinger, Heisenberg and all that?)

 

What is your PhD in?

 

Maybe you think that a university education is worthless like several others on here?

 

Very hard work getting Bachelor, Master's and PhD degrees - whatever the subject. Education is a wonderful thing and should be available to everyone.

 

However,  confusing intelligence with education isn't smart. I know many very intelligent people who never had the opportunity for higher education. I also know many very well educated and qualified people who aren't that intelligent. That's why IQ, EQ and other measures of intelligence, rather than who can pass exams, right nice thesis and articles, came about.

 

She is clearly well educated and above all, after a lifetime in political activity, including switching from Communist activist to Christian Democrat, very politically savvy. What I dislike, is like so many former Soviet bloc communists, who suddenly transformed to centeralists, she is clearly an advocate of politicians ruling rather than serving the people. Only her ideas, and those of her political allies must be implemented which are not necessarily what the people want. More and more people are becoming aware of and disatisfied with that hence the rejection of current mainstream political parties by many now.

[maximillian]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

I think you credit her with more talent than she actually has.

 

"Smart cookie" is certainly not a label I would attribute to her.

Jip99 I have to agree with you.

Trump will ask her to increase military spendings and she will promise to him that it will be done.

NATO plus US Military Budget are bigger than the military budgets of the whole world combined.

Despite of all the differences between these two characters, both of them are puppets of the more powerful figures behind the scenes.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

What laws have been changed?  America is more than Trump and his clowns.

Trump just won an election and is negatively affecting the things I mention

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic and abide by forum rules.

[Thaidream]

While I respect Mrs Merkel for her intellect and dignified responses- I do not think her policy on  massive immigration from the Middle East is good for Europe and will in the long run create huge divisions in the cultures of Europe.  I also believe massive amount of Immigrants into the UK have fueled Brexit. Whether that is good or not - that will be up to the citizens of the UK to determine.

 

American on the other had could take in many more Immigrants and it would hardly be noticed. There are already millions of muslims that live in the US and hardly anyone notices them because they go about their business and blend in with a large diverse population. In addition, America was created by massive Immigration from all over the World.

 

Europe and America spring from different roots and European countries have a much smaller land mass than the United States. Each country in Europe has cultures and traditions that go back thousands of years. An immigrant into say  London may become a British citizen but that person would not normally be considered a 'proper Englishman'.  I would say the same for someone who goes to Germany or France etc.  Many people in Europe see the massive amounts of Middle East Immigrants as not only threats to their safety but also to their culture.  

Americans do not feel the same at all and are more worried about threats to their safety which has been fuelled by Donald Trump and his minions. He wants to block immigrants from certain countries because he thinks terrorists will get in. He is completely mistaken because people from these countries get the highest scrutiny already. In addition, his policy of rounding up illegals from the Southern Hemisphere who have no criminal history and deporting them with little due process is considered inhumane. American needs immigrant labor for its economy to grow,

 

Trump has shown he is a poor leader. He comes across as unprepared and often rude . He, like so many other Americans do not listen and are arrogant believing that the US doesn't need to listen to what other countries espouse. The sad thing about the Trump Administration is that he should be listening to what other foreign leaders are saying and doing and actually be sending American officials to these countries to study programs that have worked well. Every country in the EU including the UK; Japan, Canada and even Thailand has Universal single payer healthcare- yet the United States refuses to adopt or even examine these workable programs.

 

Donald Trumps vision for America is not what the majority of Americans want. He has no real mandate to govern and he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.  If Merkel has any guts she might subtly remind him of that if he gets off track.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Trump will follow a pattern. Avoid any anti-Merkel statements prior to the visit, be all smiley for the cameras during the visit, quite touchy if he can get past Angela's judo moves, then bang out an anti-Merkel comment about 5 - 7 days for his voter base just to keep them happy.

 

Since he has no understanding of the issues and no interest in the issues, I doubt anything of substance will be discussed, moved forward or agreed.

 

The US is drifting under Trump.

Spot on!  Trump won't risk saying anything of substance as he could never go toe to toe with Merkel and win. He  will say what a wonderful woman she is and what great people the Germans are.  Everything else he will leave to the back room boys who won't have a clue what they should be discussing.

 

Merkel will also be polite and say positive things for the cameras.  I suspect she will be keen to get on the plane and get back to the real world as soon as she can.  

[sujoop]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Trump will follow a pattern. Avoid any anti-Merkel statements prior to the visit, be all smiley for the cameras during the visit, quite touchy if he can get past Angela's judo moves, then bang out an anti-Merkel comment about 5 - 7 days for his voter base just to keep them happy.

 

Since he has no understanding of the issues and no interest in the issues, I doubt anything of substance will be discussed, moved forward or agreed.

 

The US is drifting under Trump.

Well said and summing up, Mark Cuban has perfectly coined the self-absorbed and vapid Trump as 'the Zoolander president':

http://fortune.com/2017/03/13/mark-cuban-president-trump-sxsw/

 

Would love to see a REAL business person with both feet on the ground and a savvy forward thinker like Cuban have a go. Hope he does.

Meanwhile,  Trump/Pres Zoolander will continue to blunder and bluster along and quoting Cuban again  'continue being a "superstar liar" and an "immediate danger" to national security.'  (international security as well one might add)

[Retiredandhappyhere]

8 hours ago, darksidedog said:

At an intellectual level, this will be comparable to Steven Hawking meeting with Kermit the Frog.

That is not being very nice to Merkel, although the resemblance to Kermit is quite striking!  

[Retiredandhappyhere]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well I am anti muslim.

 

We certainly have a problem in Europe right now and will handle it

 

No we don't wish to foist European style social democracy on the USA but nor do we want American "values" in return thank you.

Do you mean that Mrs Merkel will tell all the other 27 countries how many refugees they will have to take, so the problem will be solved?

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Do you mean that Mrs Merkel will tell all the other 27 countries how many refugees they will have to take, so the problem will be solved?

Do keep up

 

The issue now is speeding up return of failed asylum seekers and hopefully getting safe zones where even real asylum seekers can return. The best of them that learnt German and some engineering skills will get to remain. New risk is the new fuehrer on the Bosporus. That will take some dealing with. Game theory anyone? Any ex-Rand people here? We need some "Nash equilibrium" and I'm not talking Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young!

[Retiredandhappyhere]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Do keep up

 

The issue now is speeding up return of failed asylum seekers and hopefully getting safe zones where even real asylum seekers can return. The best of them that learnt German and some engineering skills will get to remain. New risk is the new fuehrer on the Bosporus. That will take some dealing with. Game theory anyone? Any ex-Rand people here? We need some "equilibrium"

Perhaps in due course you will let us know how many of the one million or so who arrived in Germany actually leave and return to their homes or end up in safe zones. Not only Germany but also Sweden seems to have a large number of them, which is creating serious problems for the country.  

 

Do let me know when you have the statistics as I would like to keep up.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Perhaps in due course you will let us know how many of the one million or so who arrived in Germany actually leave and return to their homes or end up in safe zones. Not only Germany but also Sweden seems to have a large number of them, which is creating serious problems for the country.  

 

Do let me know when you have the statistics as I would like to keep up.

First of all, countries have a legal (on top of a moral) obligation to accept genuine refugees. Are you American? Do you know about the Geneva convention?

 

Secondly, the most recent moves in Germany have been to accelerate the return of failed asylum seekers and also to approve SAFE ZONES (as opposed to entire countries) for safe safe return. Angela was overly magnanimous and her heart is in the right place. The Swedes also went well beyond their duty. 

 

Do remind us what the USA has done to assist?..........

[348GTS]

Hmmm... except that only about 1 in 5 "Syrian refugees" were actually genuine refugees or from Syria for that matter. Most of the 1 million were economic migrants posing as refugees from any number of countries, with a sprinkling of Isis operatives thrown in for good measure. I don't think the EU, or the USA has any moral or legal occupation to accept the majority of these people and they should be returned to their countries of origin.

[stevenl]

Hmmm... except that only about 1 in 5 "Syrian refugees" were actually genuine refugees or from Syria for that matter. Most of the 1 million were economic migrants posing as refugees from any number of countries, with a sprinkling of Isis operatives thrown in for good measure. I don't think the EU, or the USA has any moral or legal occupation to accept the majority of these people and they should be returned to their countries of origin.

You have a reliable source for that claim?

sent using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, 348GTS said:

Hmmm... except that only about 1 in 5 "Syrian refugees" were actually genuine refugees or from Syria for that matter. Most of the 1 million were economic migrants posing as refugees from any number of countries, with a sprinkling of Isis operatives thrown in for good measure. I don't think the EU, or the USA has any moral or legal occupation to accept the majority of these people and they should be returned to their countries of origin.

Correct

[Jingthing]

It's weird. trump has said so many nice things about Putin while trashing Merkel so much. Should have been the other way around. It's embarrassing being American these days.

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's weird. trump has said so many nice things about Putin while trashing Merkel so much. Should have been the other way around. It's embarrassing being American these days.

Yes but Trump only speaks for Trump and the loonies who support him.  The rest of the USA know the reality and so do the rest of the world. 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, 348GTS said:

Hmmm... except that only about 1 in 5 "Syrian refugees" were actually genuine refugees or from Syria for that matter. Most of the 1 million were economic migrants posing as refugees from any number of countries, with a sprinkling of Isis operatives thrown in for good measure. I don't think the EU, or the USA has any moral or legal occupation to accept the majority of these people and they should be returned to their countries of origin.

 

What? You jus pull these numbers out of your backside? Or the mere fact that you declare 80% of Syrian refugees and an unspecified 'most' of another million 'others' as economic migrants that this actually means they are not genuine refugees?

 

What an awesome power you think that you have.

 

You do not think that the EU or US has any moral or legal [something incomprehensible] to accept 'these people'. What a classy statement. Get this from the Daily Mail? Maybe you want to brush up on international law. Perhaps review the 1951 Refugee Convention http://www.unhcr.org/1951-refugee-convention.html

 

The 2nd largest group in last year's refugee wave into Europe were from Afghanistan. Weren't you Brits there killing Afghan people? You know the phrase - you break it, you bought it? Well you helped break Afghanistan so you gotta pony up and take the consequences.

 

Got any references at all for your stupid numbers and your absurd, arrogant and abhorrent claims about 'the people'? UKIP's best and brightest I see.

[boomerangutang]

People posting here think there will be substantive discussion between Merkel and The Divider.  Far from it.  Trump already has a reputation in Europe for being a dufus.  When Pence was there recently, a German reporter asked him, "Should we believe you or the president?"  Pence just grinned.  He didn't have a response.

 

Merkel should know not to trust anything Trump says.  He's not only a habitual liar, but he changes his ideas hour by hour.  He's as dependable as an overheated car running on 3 flat tires.