Russian teens out of comas, but fund-raising drive must continue

[Bullie]

4 hours ago, Wallander4 said:

Blaming the victim is a national sport in Thailand, esp if victim is a foreigner ...

Ahh, but in this particular case I DO tink it's the parents to blame. In the U.K. they would pobably be persecuted for criminal neglicence.

[gdgbb]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

If a Thai causes an accident to a foreign tourist I really think that the Thai should pay for it.

 

I know most of them have zero money due to this country being a third world dump of a place but this is the point where the Thai Government should step in and cover all costs as they are ultimately responsible for the following reasons :

 

1 - They invite foreigners here to make a big percentage of the GDP

2 - They allow any idiot to drive on the road without adequate insurance

 

Things have to change in this country.

 

"2 - They allow any idiot to drive on the road without adequate insurance"

 

Perhaps that comment also applies to the two teenagers riding the bike as there has been no mention of their insurer?

[gdgbb]

7 hours ago, alfalfa19 said:

Best example I've seen in years of blaming the victim.  Nicely done. 

He wasn't blaming the victim he was pointing out something accurate that's all, and he was right.  How much did the teens insurer cough up?

[gdgbb]

7 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

They wore helmets and there maybe a case about insurance but I bet 95% of tourists fall into that category and this it NOT the time for a 'som nam na' approach to two kids on holiday almost killed by a red light skipping Thai moron have some COMPASSION

Just because "95% of tourists fall into that category" doesn't mean that the teens have no part of the responsibility to cover their own hospital bills.

[gdgbb]

I wonder why there has been no mention of the father since the accident and no picture of him visiting his children?    The Russian cleric and the Ambassador managed it.

[gdgbb]

7 hours ago, shaurene said:

Why does the Government not make it compulsery for the bus company to pay.

their insurance company will find as many excusses not to pay. 

The driver ran a red light so that would be on the insurance companies no pay conditions.

so good to hear they are out of their coma but they will have perminent body damage for the rest of their lives.

These bus companys must be paying a nice fee each year to some officials.  For them to close their eyes.

"...their insurance company will find as many excusses not to pay."

It didn't make any excuses, the report makes it clear that the insurance company paid out for both children.

 

"...they will have perminent body damage for the rest of their lives.'

Where did you get that information from?

[gdgbb]

5 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

The problem with insurances; If you don't have it then you are f-ed and if you do have it then you are f-ed!
You will have to fight the insurance company for any Dollar/Pound/Euro/Baht/Krona that you want from them because they will look for anything that they can blame so that they don't have to pay:

I was hit by a car while riding my bicycle back home. It took 5 years and the consumer protection agency before the insurance company payed.

I bought a secondhand Audi A6 and had a full insurance. It got stolen and demolished and the insurance company valued the car to 50% of what I had payed and offered me 30% of what I had payed... it was less than a year after I had bought it and the price for a similar car at the dealers were still at 90% of what I had payed.
I was in a hit and run by motorcycle (I were walking on the sidewalk...) here in Thailand and ended up in the hospital with a broken arm. The bill didn't get that high but the insurance company refused to pay claiming that my psoriasis was a preexisting condition for my broken arm... psoriasis is a skin condition and had nothing to do with that motorcycle hitting me from behind!

So as I said, if you don't have insurance then you are f-ed and if you do have it then you are paying to get f-ed over by the insurance company!

"You will have to fight the insurance company for any Dollar/Pound/Euro/Baht/Krona that you want from them because they will look for anything that they can blame so that they don't have to pay:"

 

If the insured complies to the policy conditions insurers will not do anything to avoid paying a claim.  It would not be worth their while for the bad publicity.  Vehicle valuations are notoriously subjective and it is natural for a policy holder to over-value their own property but at least you were paid.

[darksidedog]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

What the <deleted>, the company who owns the bus should have insurance and this insurance company should be paying for any and all treatment.

And if the insurance company doesn't pay it all,  the bus company, whose grubby little employee, ploughed them down, should.

Does anyone have the name of the bus company?

They should be named, shamed and boycotted across Facebook, Trip adviser, everywhere.

[gdgbb]

4 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

The Thai Government subsidized insurance for motorcycles is only good for 15,000. Baht in personal injury the motorcycle causes. Not applicable for this incident but just for your information. This assumes of course the motorcycle is on the roads legally. As most know, many are not on the road legally. The operators is another item and what we think of as liability is almost impossible to pursue. Bottom line, there are no rules on the highway and no responsibility applied to those at fault in accidents. 

"Bottom line, there are no rules on the highway and no responsibility applied to those at fault in accidents. "

 

Bottom line actually is, everything about that last sentence in your statement is wrong.

Edited March 17, 2017 by gdgbb

[gdgbb]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

Crap response that. 

 

That response was ironic.

[gdgbb]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

There actually is a "kind of rule" – one often not understood, nor accepted by foreigners (farangs) – the rule is: The one that can afford to pay, pays...

I can give several examples of how this work...

...carry on then...

[gdgbb]

1 hour ago, Bullie said:

Yes, and all these tourists are stupid to do what they are doing, especially without a proper licence. This is a dangerous country, and I have compassion with the children, but I DO think their parents should go to jail for letting them drive in Thailand at their age without experience.

The boy had a licence the original report said.  If no one was allowed to drive without experience there would never be a single driver anywhere; where would they have got their experience without driving?

[Philthyphil]

40 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

The boy had a licence the original report said.  If no one was allowed to drive without experience there would never be a single driver anywhere; where would they have got their experience without driving?

Not on Sukhumvit for a start.

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, gdgbb said:

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

There actually is a "kind of rule" – one often not understood, nor accepted by foreigners (farangs) – the rule is: The one that can afford to pay, pays...

I can give several examples of how this work...

...carry on then...

It's actually "off topic" in this thread, but the general disliked part by foreigners is that they normally are expected to be insured, or have funds, so they'll be blamed for the accident and shall pay the damages. We foreigners are used to, and what we consider "fair", that the faulty part is to blame and pay. But even when Thai-Thai, a part with no fault may be asked to pay, if he/she has more funds than the part at fault, as someone need to cover the damages. That was exactly what the police said to Bla, the girl I know, that on motorbike hit a minor kid, slipping away from busy mum and running out in the street front of her; she had no change to avoid an accident and the kid broke an arm. Bla had a well paid job, better than the single mum with two kids, and no cash in bank, or in hand, so she was told by police to pay hospital bills (medicine and equipment are not free), and the damages on her own motorbike, totaling 10k baht. Bla was sad, but that's how it is, she told me.

 

Just two weeks ago a boy in village was driving fast on a motorbike round the corner one night, lost control, tilted and slid into the side of my girlfriend, who was standing still on her bike in the opposite side of the road. The boy was 14; no driver license; dad's motorbike had no tax-slip, so no insurance, as dad couldn't afford it; and the boy was in pain. I was called for and came in my car, and I said let's call emergency, they'll take care of the boy. But no, he did not want, and mum and dad came, and they did not want. Realized because of they did not want the risk of a police report – there was a policeman off duty as witness, and he said to me: »It's not at all your GF's fault, if you need me, just go and ask for ... in the village police-box.« My clever GF however cleared it the Thai-way; we took the boy to hospital; arm broken 3 places; I paid nearly 2k baht for his medicine and armrest; my GF offered to pay their motorbike damages, which was not that much, and when brought to repair-shop next day, it could be fixed for hardly 3k baht. We both know from experience, that it's much less hassle to clear a problem with, what for us is small money, than getting into any arguments – however in this case no problem, as the boy admitted he was driving too fast, and the parents said he was a naught boy – so the unlucky boy, luckily hit my GF, and then she was a part in the accident, and should help. My GF had pain in her leg – the boy slid into her – and amazing colors on it the following days; if in a Western country, my GF should, then have claimed compensation...

Edited March 17, 2017 by khunPer

[balo]

Why are so many of you calling them tourists ? They are not, they've been living here for many years, the kids speak fluent Thai. They go to a private international school. Just like the locals they need a bike as transportation and they followed the laws in Thailand. The boy had a license and they both had helmets.

Insurance in Thailand is different, you need to pay a very high premium to cover serious injuries like these. So don't blame the kids or their father, they are not wealthy and need all the help they can get.

[Rimmer]

Some troll posts have been removed.

 

Please stop hijacking the topic with your own accident and compensation experiences. thank you.

[Philthyphil]

53 minutes ago, balo said:

Why are so many of you calling them tourists ? They are not, they've been living here for many years, the kids speak fluent Thai. They go to a private international school. Just like the locals they need a bike as transportation and they followed the laws in Thailand. The boy had a license and they both had helmets.

Insurance in Thailand is different, you need to pay a very high premium to cover serious injuries like these. So don't blame the kids or their father, they are not wealthy and need all the help they can get.

If they can afford to go to an international private school, then they are not poor.

But the dad is stupid for letting ride on sukhumvit. Why couldn't they use a van like most other private school kids do. 

 

They pulled out in front of a bus in a country where running red lights is normal.

They were too young or too inexperienced to know better. Now their lives are ruined.

[USPatriot]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

What the <deleted>, the company who owns the bus should have insurance and this insurance company should be paying for any and all treatment.

Unless the company went over the maximum for insurance. Then if the bus company refuses to pay the rest of the bill it will go to court. His bill has to be paid before he can leave the hospital.

 

It took 3 month for the insurance company to reimburse me

[darksidedog]

2 hours ago, Philthyphil said:

If they can afford to go to an international private school, then they are not poor.

But the dad is stupid for letting ride on sukhumvit. Why couldn't they use a van like most other private school kids do. 

 

They pulled out in front of a bus in a country where running red lights is normal.

They were too young or too inexperienced to know better. Now their lives are ruined.

They weren't driving on Sukhumvit, they were crossing it from one side to the other.

And they were not on the way to school when it happened, so a van was not an option.

My son went to the same school and knows them both. Daniel was a good rider, not crazy like some local hoons.

Had a license, wore a helmet, obeyed rules. Wiped out by a moron jumping the lights.

The school is one of the most reasonably priced international schools here. 110,000 a year.

If they had been attending St, Andrews, I could understand your comment, which is about 10 times that.

I add to this that I donated and my 16 year old son did too, from his monthly allowance.

Edited March 17, 2017 by darksidedog

[WebGuy]

It is really touching to see how people help each other in difficult situation.

 

I was recently in Kolan and had a puncture on my motorcycle.

I said to my wife to ride to the nearest mechanic and I continued walking from the beach.

Many cars and motorcycles were passing and passing while I was walking.

Of course I did not expect someone to stop but then a guy with a motorcycle stopped and took me to the mechanic although it was not on his way.

 

He was Igor from Russia.

[gdgbb]

8 hours ago, khunPer said:

It's actually "off topic" in this thread, but the general disliked part by foreigners is that they normally are expected to be insured, or have funds, so they'll be blamed for the accident and shall pay the damages. We foreigners are used to, and what we consider "fair", that the faulty part is to blame and pay. But even when Thai-Thai, a part with no fault may be asked to pay, if he/she has more funds than the part at fault, as someone need to cover the damages. That was exactly what the police said to Bla, the girl I know, that on motorbike hit a minor kid, slipping away from busy mum and running out in the street front of her; she had no change to avoid an accident and the kid broke an arm. Bla had a well paid job, better than the single mum with two kids, and no cash in bank, or in hand, so she was told by police to pay hospital bills (medicine and equipment are not free), and the damages on her own motorbike, totaling 10k baht. Bla was sad, but that's how it is, she told me.

 

Just two weeks ago a boy in village was driving fast on a motorbike round the corner one night, lost control, tilted and slid into the side of my girlfriend, who was standing still on her bike in the opposite side of the road. The boy was 14; no driver license; dad's motorbike had no tax-slip, so no insurance, as dad couldn't afford it; and the boy was in pain. I was called for and came in my car, and I said let's call emergency, they'll take care of the boy. But no, he did not want, and mum and dad came, and they did not want. Realized because of they did not want the risk of a police report – there was a policeman off duty as witness, and he said to me: »It's not at all your GF's fault, if you need me, just go and ask for ... in the village police-box.« My clever GF however cleared it the Thai-way; we took the boy to hospital; arm broken 3 places; I paid nearly 2k baht for his medicine and armrest; my GF offered to pay their motorbike damages, which was not that much, and when brought to repair-shop next day, it could be fixed for hardly 3k baht. We both know from experience, that it's much less hassle to clear a problem with, what for us is small money, than getting into any arguments – however in this case no problem, as the boy admitted he was driving too fast, and the parents said he was a naught boy – so the unlucky boy, luckily hit my GF, and then she was a part in the accident, and should help. My GF had pain in her leg – the boy slid into her – and amazing colors on it the following days; if in a Western country, my GF should, then have claimed compensation...

It may be off topic but you brought it up! 

 

Both those "examples" are situations where an unofficial way of sorting the problem out was taken, if you took the proper route of involving your insurance company the result would have been different.  The conclusion from your examples is not that "who can pay, pays", it is that if you don't do it the right way you've got no one to blame but yourself.

 

I was involved in an accident on the Chonburi/Bangkok motorway when an uninsured local smashed into the back of my car at speed when the traffic ahead of me was forced to some to a halt in an emergency because his brakes couldn't stop him in time.  The police wanted me to let him go because he had no insurance and they knew that I did.  They wanted me to claim for a hit and run on my insurance.  Just by ignoring the police request and calling my insurers I was able to avoid any discussions or negotiations that you described in your examples, i.e. "who can pay, pays definitely does not apply.

 

 

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

It may be off topic but you brought it up! 

 

Both those "examples" are situations where an unofficial way of sorting the problem out was taken, if you took the proper route of involving your insurance company the result would have been different.  The conclusion from your examples is not that "who can pay, pays", it is that if you don't do it the right way you've got no one to blame but yourself.

 

I was involved in an accident on the Chonburi/Bangkok motorway when an uninsured local smashed into the back of my car at speed when the traffic ahead of me was forced to some to a halt in an emergency because his brakes couldn't stop him in time.  The police wanted me to let him go because he had no insurance and they knew that I did.  They wanted me to claim for a hit and run on my insurance.  Just by ignoring the police request and calling my insurers I was able to avoid any discussions or negotiations that you described in your examples, i.e. "who can pay, pays definitely does not apply.

 

 

Thanks for your reply. I brought it up only, because I was asked to in the discussion about insurance. However a moderator asked, not to post about own accidents here – the tread is about the sad accident with two teens – so I think such subjects shall belong in a separate thread, where I gladly will answer...

[gdgbb]

28 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Thanks for your reply. I brought it up only, because I was asked to in the discussion about insurance. However a moderator asked, not to post about own accidents here – the tread is about the sad accident with two teens – so I think such subjects shall belong in a separate thread, where I gladly will answer...

"However a moderator asked, not to post about own accidents here..."

 

So you did regardless, anyway!

[steven100]

21 hours ago, Bullie said:

I think it is extremely irresponsible of the Russian family not to have  proper travel insurance, especially traveling to a third world country.

Letting your children of 15 and 16 ride a motorcycle in the 2nd most dangerous country in the world traffic wise borders on criminal intent, driving licence or not.

It is a terrible situation the family is in, but it is largely of their own making, I'm sorry to say.

I have 38 years of big bike experience, and I still get cought off guard in the traffic here regularly, let alone children completely unaccustomed  to the local traffic.

Not much point in trying to squeeze money out of a dirt poor bus driver.

' but it is largely of their own making '     What sort of a statement is this ....  !

 

so it's the families fault that the guy ran a red light and ploughed into them.  ??

 

strange way to think ....   that seems like thai thinking to me ..

[Covertjay]

So you did regardless, anyway!

Another poster asked for his examples.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Ludo55]

16 hours ago, gdgbb said:

"...their insurance company will find as many excusses not to pay."

It didn't make any excuses, the report makes it clear that the insurance company paid out for both children.

 

"...they will have perminent body damage for the rest of their lives.'

Where did you get that information from?

You can tell by looking at the boy, clenched fists is a clear indication of brain damage. Even seen anybody knocked unconscious, the first indication is clenched fists. Remember this was a while ago!

[Bullie]

19 hours ago, gdgbb said:

The boy had a licence the original report said.  If no one was allowed to drive without experience there would never be a single driver anywhere; where would they have got their experience without driving?

Thai children get their experience from when they are 8 years old, riding old motocy's around the village. They also form a large proportion of the 22.000 deadly motocycle accident deaths. I know the boy had recently gotten his licence, but to let him loose in the worst city traffic wise in the 2nd most dangerous country without experience does not really plead for their parents, now does it?

[Tony125]

On 3/17/2017 at 8:52 AM, Bullie said:

I think it is extremely irresponsible of the Russian family not to have  proper travel insurance, especially traveling to a third world country.

Letting your children of 15 and 16 ride a motorcycle in the 2nd most dangerous country in the world traffic wise borders on criminal intent, driving licence or not.

It is a terrible situation the family is in, but it is largely of their own making, I'm sorry to say.

I have 38 years of big bike experience, and I still get cought off guard in the traffic here regularly, let alone children completely unaccustomed  to the local traffic.

Not much point in trying to squeeze money out of a dirt poor bus driver.

I think your missing the point , no one is about trying to squeeze money out of the poor Thai bus driver but did you see the accident video ? He was driving like a madman and ran the red light he should face charges. The bus company should also pay for some of the bills. Secondly the boy had a liscense they wore helmuts and they are not tourists who need travel insurance they live here and they were driving correctly the bus driver gunned his bus thru the red light.  Bottom line stop trying to blame them for the accident and I ask all TV posters to contribute whatever they caan to help these kids who are very lucky to still be alive and are in bad shape. I already have.

[Briggsy]

20 hours ago, darksidedog said:

And if the insurance company doesn't pay it all,  the bus company, whose grubby little employee, ploughed them down, should.

Does anyone have the name of the bus company?

They should be named, shamed and boycotted across Facebook, Trip adviser, everywhere.

Your post is inappropriate to Thailand. You have misunderstood that in Thailand insurance is limited.

 

This means once you reach the maximum payout, the injured party must sue the other driver (in this case, the unnamed bus company) for any excess.

 

You have incorrectly applied concepts from the West.

[gdgbb]

2 hours ago, Bullie said:

Thai children get their experience from when they are 8 years old, riding old motocy's around the village. They also form a large proportion of the 22.000 deadly motocycle accident deaths. I know the boy had recently gotten his licence, but to let him loose in the worst city traffic wise in the 2nd most dangerous country without experience does not really plead for their parents, now does it?

My main point was that the boy did have a licence which had been claimed he did not have.

 

I understand what you are saying regarding the lack of experience but there is a possibility, albeit very slight, that he also has experience from when he was 8 years old.   Where can someone get experience if not in the area that they live?   Many thousands of young people get that experience locally without being involved in accidents and getting experience of anything that we want to do is, unfortunately, just one of the hazards of life that we all have to contend with.

Edited March 18, 2017 by gdgbb