Red-shirt leaders probably doomed: Jatuporn

[Shawn0000]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

They were offered an election, accepted it and then refused it when someone higher up called them.. guess who....

 

Where did you get that?  The 30th March negotiation did not get anywhere, there was never an election offered.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Where did you get that?  The 30th March negotiation did not get anywhere, there was never an election offered.

As far as I know it was offered and accepted and later rejected. I will look it up at a later time. I am sure others can back this up too.  (something about it not being fast enough)

Edited March 23, 2017 by robblok

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, bangrak said:

Hey Joe, sorry, but I can't call a frog spitting poison: 'cool', please tone down! Actually, it's the person you're insulting who's kind of 'cool', ...not reporting you for abuse. As your late reactions are together personal and plain abusive, and it does not fit into this forum's rules.

Yeh I do seem to be a bit edgy today , time for another coffee?

[candide]

3 hours ago, bangrak said:

'candide': What is the link between this 'post' of yours and Jatuporn and the other (already) convicted(!) criminal(!) 'leaders' of these 'red shirts'/UDD?

When you're just attempting to deny their guilt, or at least deflect the attention from their despicable actions, this would be well in-line with most of your other 'contributions' here... And a well-known typical reaction from the Shins' TRT/PPP/PTP/...UDD and followers, the: 'we did nothing wrong/we are the majority/we do what we want/we were democratically elected/our way of the highway/the others did (this) so we can do (that), kind of stuff, oh my, what a bunch of 'democrats'!

P.S.: And you can write it on your belly, no amnesty for these (terrorist?) criminals, even under the guise of a pseudo-reconciliation, as there can be no such either, ...considering the people you follow remain in denial of any wrongdoing and reject any kind of compromise.

What is the imaginary link between your post and my post?

My post was an answer to Roblock's stating that Sondhi was in jail, which was an answer to my initial post: "meanwhile the PAD and PDRC leaders..."

[candide]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

As far as I know it was offered and accepted and later rejected. I will look it up at a later time. I am sure others can back this up too.  (something about it not being fast enough)

If I remember well some accepted it while others later rejected it.

On of the key disagreement was that the date proposed by Abhisit was after the nomination of the new army chief (you know who was appointed), while the red shirts wanted elections to happen before this date, so that the new government could nominate the new chief. Later events have shown that both sides were right to consider it as a key event.

[smedly]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Then you are not talking about me.. I condemned the pop corn man and am happy he is in jail.

But there is a lot less violence from the anti government protesters than from the red shirts.

pop corn was a lone ranger that snapped after weeks of attacks on innocent people on a daily basis in Bangkok with the authorities (PTP) doing absolutely nothing about it, and make no mistake - he was equally being fired at from the red lines who at that time had declared all sorts of assaults on Bangkok and partition of the country, they had formed training camps in the north and were threatening civil war, go read about it. the army reluctantly had no choice but to step in after they got them all round the table and the bitching continued

[smedly]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

They were offered an election, accepted it and then refused it when someone higher up called them.. guess who....

correct

[Kiwiken]

Both sides of the Protest movement in Thailand have blood on their hands Red or Yellow. The latter got the military to do their dirty work. Both are the radical side of the Political divide in Thailand both profess to want Democracy but really only feather the nests of their Masters. Only when Thailand can mature Politically to have free and fair elections and a Military which defends the Borders and does not oppress Democratic debate can Thailand advance. Openness and transparency are needed.

[Shawn0000]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

As far as I know it was offered and accepted and later rejected. I will look it up at a later time. I am sure others can back this up too.  (something about it not being fast enough)

 

Well, there was an election coming two years later, that was what was not fast enough for them, they had talks, the talks failed, and the troubles began.  I suspect what you have caught hold off was one of the numerous rumours put out by the yellow shirt owned media at the time, there was a whole host of lies spread by them.

[robblok]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

pop corn was a lone ranger that snapped after weeks of attacks on innocent people on a daily basis in Bangkok with the authorities (PTP) doing absolutely nothing about it, and make no mistake - he was equally being fired at from the red lines who at that time had declared all sorts of assaults on Bangkok and partition of the country, they had formed training camps in the north and were threatening civil war, go read about it. the army reluctantly had no choice but to step in after they got them all round the table and the bitching continued

I am not saying, there was no reason for the popcorn man to bee there. Ko Tee and his mob were harassing the anti government protesters there every night with gunfire and other things. The CAPO should have stepped in.. but why would the same people who set the attack dogs free now go after them. But he started shooting after being shot on in a crowded place, when you do something like that you take a big risk with the lives of others.

 

But I get why people defend him, he was pushed into it just like the army was pushed into the clearing of the red protesters because they were shot on by men in black.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Well, there was an election coming two years later, that was what was not fast enough for them, they had talks, the talks failed, and the troubles began.  I suspect what you have caught hold off was one of the numerous rumours put out by the yellow shirt owned media at the time, there was a whole host of lies spread by them.

Nope as others had stated even on your side an early election was promised.. they went for it and later rejected it. Just like i remembered.

[robblok]

7 hours ago, candide said:

If I remember well some accepted it while others later rejected it.

On of the key disagreement was that the date proposed by Abhisit was after the nomination of the new army chief (you know who was appointed), while the red shirts wanted elections to happen before this date, so that the new government could nominate the new chief. Later events have shown that both sides were right to consider it as a key event.

Those later events might never have happened if they had gone away peacefully and an election was held early. You can't just assume nothing would have changed. Fact remained they were offered a early election and it was accepted and later they came back on their word.

[Shawn0000]

59 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nope as others had stated even on your side an early election was promised.. they went for it and later rejected it. Just like i remembered.

 

Oh, what he said? Really, and that is your evidence?  Any link to a credible source, otherwise I will have to disregard that as just yellow propaganda.

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Oh, what he said? Really, and that is your evidence?  Any link to a credible source, otherwise I will have to disregard that as just yellow propaganda.

 

 

 Abhisit announced a reconciliatory road map and elections on 14 November. The road map was tentatively accepted by the UDD, but after they included additional conditions, the government cancelled negotiations.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_political_protests

 

[Shawn0000]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

 

 Abhisit announced a reconciliatory road map and elections on 14 November. The road map was tentatively accepted by the UDD, but after they included additional conditions, the government cancelled negotiations.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_political_protests

 

 

Oh, so the UDD welcomed the opportunity to talk about their road map, and Abhisit said he would set a date for an election, something the PM is not legally allowed to do, that would be the soul decision of the election commission, and they didn't like the road map that gave no clear plan, but was actually described by foreign press as having the intention to beguile and deceive, and they didn't accept it, nor believe Abhisit who if he truly intended to allow an election would have been taking the normal steps of dissolving parliament not pretending that he could call an election on his own.

 

But you say it happened just as you remembered, which you said was them accepting it, then getting a call and later rejecting it.  Is that what happened or did they actually just reject it as soon as they saw it for the lame attempt it actually was to remove their supporters from Bangkok without fulfilling their request for an election?  Having already silenced the press, the only thing left was to silence the people, amazing how many expats support the oppression of the majority by the yellow shirts.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Oh, so the UDD welcomed the opportunity to talk about their road map, and Abhisit said he would set a date for an election, something the PM is not legally allowed to do, that would be the soul decision of the election commission, and they didn't like the road map that gave no clear plan, but was actually described by foreign press as having the intention to beguile and deceive, and they didn't accept it, nor believe Abhisit who if he truly intended to allow an election would have been taking the normal steps of dissolving parliament not pretending that he could call an election on his own.

 

But you say it happened just as you remembered, which you said was them accepting it, then getting a call and later rejecting it.  Is that what happened or did they actually just reject it as soon as they saw it for the lame attempt it actually was to remove their supporters from Bangkok without fulfilling their request for an election?  Having already silenced the press, the only thing left was to silence the people, amazing how many expats support the oppression of the majority by the yellow shirts.

You should learn to read.. they accepted it.. and then later tried to add extra demands making it invalid. I just speculated on the call.. like others have done. But it was accepted at first. just as you read here.

 

Yes i support the junta.. i find them less bad as the band of robbers of Thaksin, but the margin is slim. We all got our viewpoints. 

[Ricardo]

Just now, Shawn0000 said:

 

Oh, so the UDD welcomed the opportunity to talk about their road map, and Abhisit said he would set a date for an election, something the PM is not legally allowed to do, that would be the soul decision of the election commission, and they didn't like the road map that gave no clear plan, but was actually described by foreign press as having the intention to beguile and deceive, and they didn't accept it, nor believe Abhisit who if he truly intended to allow an election would have been taking the normal steps of dissolving parliament not pretending that he could call an election on his own.

 

But you say it happened just as you remembered, which you said was them accepting it, then getting a call and later rejecting it.  Is that what happened or did they actually just reject it as soon as they saw it for the lame attempt it actually was to remove their supporters from Bangkok without fulfilling their request for an election?  Having already silenced the press, the only thing left was to silence the people, amazing how many expats support the oppression of the majority by the yellow shirts.

It was all broadcast live on television, farangs who were here at-the-time will recall it, so nobody is making it up as you appear to be claiming, they don't need to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8591373.stm

 

I've long wondered who the mysterious phone-call was from, that led to the failure of these talks, which might otherwise have ended the protests sooner & with both sides saving-face.  But it wasn't to be, sadly.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes i support the junta.. i find them less bad as the band of robbers of Thaksin, but the margin is slim. We all got our viewpoints. 

Intriguing. The band of Thaksin robbers have got their charge sheets left, right and center but the band of military robbers got away with everything. That's your preference who you like. Freedom of expression practice here. 

[Shawn0000]

21 minutes ago, robblok said:

You should learn to read.. they accepted it.. and then later tried to add extra demands making it invalid. I just speculated on the call.. like others have done. But it was accepted at first. just as you read here.

 

Yes i support the junta.. i find them less bad as the band of robbers of Thaksin, but the margin is slim. We all got our viewpoints. 

 

What were the demands?  The road map made no sense, there was no plan to dissolve parliament, just a phony promise to call an election, it would not have been possible to accept it and no doubt that is what they were advised, to either get it amended to be a binding agreement or not accept it.  You can hardly put blame on the ones not accepting something that was not legally a possibility for the ones who wrote it to perform, it at least had to be legal.

 

What is it that the junta have done for the Thai people that you like?  We have had them for quite a while now, in the same period Thaksin had introduced a universal health care system, started building a university for every province and introduced student loans, introduced low interest agricultural loans and micro-credit development funding, reduced poverty by 50%, increased the wealth of the North East by 46% and doubled Thailand's GDP, easy to see why he had a lot of supporters,quite difficult to see why anyone in their right mind would support a junta, particularly one who has achieved so little.  I know you have been told so many times about Thaksins corruption, and he was like all of them, corrupt, but how do you feel about the Generals property deal in his first few days of office, do you think that was 100% above board?

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Intriguing. The band of Thaksin robbers have got their charge sheets left, right and center but the band of military robbers got away with everything. That's your preference who you like. Freedom of expression practice here. 

I prefer none to get away with it.. but if the junta had not stepped in the Thaksin robbers would have gotten away with it.

 

So you prefer none to be punished.. i prefer some over none and would prefer all even more. But i still like it that crooks.. and no charges are ever made up for HISO's are punished. 

[tominbkk]

I remember that red shirt raid on ASEAN.   It was terrifying and out of control.  Made the country look awful as well.  They deserve to be in prison and have no reason to complain.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

What were the demands?  The road map made no sense, there was no plan to dissolve parliament, just a phony promise to call an election, it would not have been possible to accept it and no doubt that is what they were advised, to either get it amended to be a binding agreement or not accept it.  You can hardly put blame on the ones not accepting something that was not legally a possibility for the ones who wrote it to perform, it at least had to be legal.

 

What is it that the junta have done for the Thai people that you like?  We have had them for quite a while now, in the same period Thaksin had introduced a universal health care system, started building a university for every province and introduced student loans, introduced low interest agricultural loans and micro-credit development funding, reduced poverty by 50%, increased the wealth of the North East by 46% and doubled Thailand's GDP, easy to see why he had a lot of supporters,quite difficult to see why anyone in their right mind would support a junta, particularly one who has achieved so little.  I know you have been told so many times about Thaksins corruption, and he was like all of them, corrupt, but how do you feel about the Generals property deal in his first few days of office, do you think that was 100% above board?

Bla bla bla 

 

Not accepting anything I brought up and backed up with news atritles it gets tiresome. Im done with you

[Shawn0000]

36 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

It was all broadcast live on television, farangs who were here at-the-time will recall it, so nobody is making it up as you appear to be claiming, they don't need to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8591373.stm

 

I've long wondered who the mysterious phone-call was from, that led to the failure of these talks, which might otherwise have ended the protests sooner & with both sides saving-face.  But it wasn't to be, sadly.

 

 

 

The failure of the talks was the failure of the PM to dissolve parliament, just saying he would call an election did not fool anyone, he did not have the legal authority to call an election anyway and when asked to dissolve parliament he questioned whether that would help, even a fool could see though his game, and on him lies all the guilt, the people have the right to democracy, he did not have the right to deny them that, as they showed him with blood.

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

I remember that red shirt raid on ASEAN.   It was terrifying and out of control.  Made the country look awful as well.  They deserve to be in prison and have no reason to complain.

You saw any Blue Shirts? Just Red?

[tominbkk]

1 minute ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The failure of the talks was the failure of the PM to dissolve parliament, just saying he would call an election did not fool anyone, he did not have the legal authority to call an election anyway and when asked to dissolve parliament he questioned whether that would help, even a fool could see though his game, and on him lies all the guilt, the people have the right to democracy, he did not have the right to deny them that, as they showed him with blood.

evidence please.

[robblok]

Just now, Shawn0000 said:

 

The failure of the talks was the failure of the PM to dissolve parliament, just saying he would call an election did not fool anyone, he did not have the legal authority to call an election anyway and when asked to dissolve parliament he questioned whether that would help, even a fool could see though his game, and on him lies all the guilt, the people have the right to democracy, he did not have the right to deny them that, as they showed him with blood.

The PM was in power based on democracy. It was one of Thaksins allies Newin that switched sides and formed an new government with the Democrats that is legal.

 

Now they wanted to overthrow the goverment just like the yellows have done recently.. they were not denied democracy at all. It was a legal switch of government. Go cry me a river if you don't understand that.

 

Then unlike the yellows they used violence to overthrow the goverment and used men in black to shoot at the army. And then the bodies started falling. 

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The failure of the talks was the failure of the PM to dissolve parliament, just saying he would call an election did not fool anyone, he did not have the legal authority to call an election anyway and when asked to dissolve parliament he questioned whether that would help, even a fool could see though his game, and on him lies all the guilt, the people have the right to democracy, he did not have the right to deny them that, as they showed him with blood.

What followed was 'Cruel April' and subsequent 'Savage May'. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, tominbkk said:

evidence please.

Yes he claims evidence from everyone articles and so on but makes claims he himself not backs up.. that is why I am done with him.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

What followed was 'Cruel April' and subsequent 'Savage May'. 

 

yes but it was not as one sided as you want it to be.. the blackshirts made sure it happend

 

While the military denied that soldiers had used live ammunition, eyewitness accounts, video footage, and forensic evidence from the scene that Human Rights Watch has examined shows that some soldiers fired live ammunition at protesters.

As night fell, renewed clashes erupted when the army attempted to move in on the Phan Fa camp and were confronted by well-armed and organized groups of armed militants affiliated with the UDD. Known as the “Black Shirts,” they fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers, and used M79 grenade launchers and M67 hand grenades at the Khok Wua junction and at the Democracy Monument, devastating army troops in the process. The army unit’s commanding officer, Col. Romklao Thuwatham, was among the first to be killed, apparently in a targeted M79 grenade attack. Many senior officers were wounded. Panicked and leaderless, the troops withdrew into backstreets, often firing directly at UDD protesters massed before them. The result was Bangkok’s deadliest violence in decades, which left 26 people dead, including five soldiers, and more than 860 wounded.

A foreign photojournalist was behind army lines in Din So Road when the soldiers were attacked by Black Shirts with grenades and gunfire. He told Human Rights Watch:

[T]hey [the soldiers] got hit by a grenade. They fell back and had injured with them, so to give cover to their wounded they returned fire. The Black Shirts were ahead of them, attacking….I could see their fire incoming at us….The Black Shirts didn’t come to try and take territory—they shoot and then they leave; they hit [the soldiers] and retreat.

A period of relative calm and negotiations between the government and UDD followed. However, violence continued to flare. On April 22, for example, five M79-launched grenades landed in a pro-government Yellow Shirt crowd, killing a woman and wounding at least 78. On April 24 and 29, UDD security guards and protesters armed with sharpened bamboo sticks stormed Chulalongkorn Hospital in search for soldiers.        

                              https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

Edited March 24, 2017 by robblok

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

evidence please.

Goggle please