For Trump, it was the lost art of the deal

[rooster59]

For Trump, it was the lost art of the deal

By James Oliphant

 

U.S. President Donald Trump talks to journalists at the Oval Office of the White House after the AHCA health care bill was pulled before a vote in Washington, U.S. March 24, 2017. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In the end, the Closer couldn’t close the deal.

 

For President Donald Trump, the collapse on Friday of his first legislative priority, a healthcare reform bill, was an embarrassing loss of face after he and his administration insisted up until the time of the vote by the U.S. House of Representatives that there was enough Republican support.

 

It brings into question the neophyte president’s ability to move big-ticket legislation through Congress. And for a celebrity businessman who brands himself a deal-maker and fixer, it casts doubt over his ability to deliver on his bold "drain-the-swamp" promises to shake up Washington.

 

The White House wants to advance, among other things, tax reform and a massive infrastructure package this year, but now it must address whether a change of approach is needed and whether congressional allies such as House Speaker Paul Ryan can be counted on to deliver.

 

"This is the most consequential day of Trump's presidency and it's not just a failure, it's a stunning failure,” Charlie Sykes, an influential Wisconsin Republican political commentator and frequent Trump critic, said on Twitter.

 

Trump appeared to chalk up the loss in part to his own inexperience after House leaders pulled their bill to repeal and replace Obamacare following defections by both moderate and far-right Republican members who were unmoved by Trump's ultimatum to vote for the plan or live with the current system.

 

“We learned a lot about loyalty. We learned a lot about the vote-getting process,” Trump said after the bill was withdrawn, adding that he would move forward with other priorities.

 

It was yet another setback for an administration barely two months in office that has already seen its national security adviser resign, had its immigration restrictions struck down in courts, and faces a barrage of questions about the Trump campaign's ties to Russia.

 

Trump’s hallmark salesmanship seemed to abandon him this week. Although he furiously courted the hard-line conservatives opposed to the reform bill, they largely refused to yield, and in the process he alienated moderates who initially supported the bill.

 

The president then switched tactics and gave up trying to bring the conservative opponents into the fold, instead delivering an ultimatum that all Republicans needed to back the bill. That did not work either.

 

Trump also failed to persuade the American public that the bill was an improvement over the one it would have repealed and replaced: the Affordable Care Act - the signature domestic achievement of former Democratic President Barack Obama. Polls showed the replacement bill to be deeply unpopular, and conservative Republicans complained that their offices were being deluged by calls from constituents opposing it.

 

“This demonstrates that campaigning and legislating are two different things,” said Jim Manley, once a top aide to former Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

 

Representative Joe Barton of Texas blamed the failure on Republicans who control the White House, Senate and the House still learning how to govern after eight years of Obama.

 

"Sometimes you’re playing fantasy football and sometimes you’re in the real game,” Barton told Reuters.

 

Representative Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida called it “a big blow" for the Republican agenda.

 

Trump’s efforts to engage the bill’s opponents at times seemed to muddy the process further, as he largely cut Ryan out of negotiations. (Ryan didn't seem to mind, calling Trump a "great closer.")

 

But even as Trump offered concessions, conservatives did not budge and moderates were angered.

 

Stuart Diamond, a professor who teaches negotiation at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, said Trump’s strong-arm tactics backfired.

 

“Threats don't work in general,” he said. “They cause damage to relationships. They definitely don't work in a situation with a lot of different stakeholders, where the power is distributed.”

 

ESCAPING A LOOMING DISASTER

 

After the bill was revised along Trump’s specifications, the Congressional Budget Office, which analyses the financial impact of proposed legislation, determined that the bill would deprive 24 million Americans of health insurance over the next decade and slice about $150 billion off the budget deficit.

 

The CBO said the bill would not affect the number of uninsured but it would reduce the budget deficit significantly less than the original bill, troubling fiscal hawks. Even as Trump and the White House pushed harder, opposition to the bill among the rank and file rose.

 

Representative Bill Huizenga, a Michigan Republican who is also a small-business owner, said Trump was still getting used to governing. “There are parallels between government and business, but they are not exactly the same.”

 

The lesson from the debacle, said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who was an aide to former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, is that the White House needs to take a firmer hand in crafting legislative strategy. On healthcare, Trump largely deferred to Ryan’s office, which drafted the bill in secret, sowing mistrust among conservatives.

 

Congress now faces arguably an even tougher legislative reform: overhauling the tax code, which has not been done since 1986 and involves navigating a snake pit of competing special interests. Like Trump's healthcare proposal, it could struggle against public opinion, with Democrats likely to cast it as a Republican giveaway to the rich.

 

There was also a feeling among some Republicans that they had escaped a looming disaster. Even if the bill had passed the House, it faced a radical overhaul in the Senate, meaning both chambers would have been tied up battling over the bill for weeks, perhaps months.

 

And if it became law and millions of voters lost health insurance, some Republicans feared they could suffer at the polls.

 

Instead, those Republicans have to hope voters will not punish them for failing to deliver on a promise they had been making since Obamacare was passed in 2010, and that they will still believe this president when he says he can strike a deal.

 

“This is a promise the GOP made to voters. They need to get it right,” said Rachel Bovard, a policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, as she urged Republicans to "start over."

 

It is unclear when that could happen. "This bill is dead,” said Representative Greg Walden of Oregon, a member of the House leadership team.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-26

[MalandLee]

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.

 

I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.

 

Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.

 

Whilst America seems to be the epitome of what may be described as a "corporatocracy" I hope you can achieve universal health care, similar to your wealthy northern neighbour and most other "first world" tribes.

[Briggsy]

Whilst your "conspiracy theory" above is certainly possible, I beg to differ.

 

Your theory implies Trump has a vision, an ideological policy position and a grasp of the detail of the effects of legislation on people's lives. My view is you are giving him too much credit.

 

I believe he has no overarching vision, no ideological positions and only a very limited technical grasp of the effects of legislation on ordinary people's lives. I would also add he seems incompetent in the mechanisms of government and not willing to learn.

 

I believe he ran for President to boost his own brand and protect his business interests primarily and secondarily due to his own huge ego and lust for dominance over others.

 

He couldn't care less, in my opinion, how healthcare is paid for in America. It certainly has never affected him. He just simply wants to be praised and dominate proceedings. Any system from a socialist fully-funded system to a totally capitalist private system would be fine with Trump as long as he could crow about it and splash his name front and centre.

 

Tax reform may be a lot closer to his heart, or should I say wallet. Here self-interest comes into play as it does for most of his cabinet. I suspect he will be significantly more engaged on this.

[MalandLee]

Hi Briggsy,

 

Most certainly other scenarios exist, however, given the "ego" factor, which I and (I guess) many would agree - is HUGE. He does seem to have given in rather easily, don't you think?

 

Anyhow, thanks for an interesting and certainly plausible addition to the debate.

 

Mal

[Sphere]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

lost art of the deal

Perhaps, his ghost-writer would make a good president. 

[bendejo]

He's tired of winning already.  

 

His real dangers are himself and his cabal.  Bannon is an ideologue with a vision and (haphazard) direction, and DT has neither.  Bannon's also a lot smarter.  Word has it Bannon pushed for this because he wants Ryan destroyed, hence the Trump agenda (ahem!) is being bested by the Bannon agenda.  Will DT be smart enough to figure this out?  Or is he like the idiot king in Amadeus?

As he would put it if it weren't himself: "The failing president Donald Trump..."

 

 

[sujoop]

All these losses...Sad. 

Trump promised wins...Loser.

Deal-master...Failure.

Almost time for a grand diversion. Like say, a Grenada, except with Nukes....
'It's gonna be Yuuugggee, BELIEVE me, and we will win so much, you'll get tired of winning'

 

[boomerangutang]

The end is nigh.

 

Actually, Trump losing the health care thing shows (mostly to Republican lawmakers) that he's vulnerable and doesn't need to be blindly heeded.

 

Yet, there are bigger hits to come for Trump.  Right now, he's like Frazier in the 1st round against Ali.

[humqdpf]

6 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.

 

I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.

 

Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.

 

 

I think that MalandLee is on to something. If you look at Trump's successes in business in the past, he has always been in a position, usually by luck, to be able to swing it. But at least he understands that he is in the position. When he is not in a position of significant leverage, he then arranges matters so that there is some other person or entity that can be blamed. In this case, it will be those pesky Republicans who just would not support his beautiful bill. Or he uses the situation to his own advantage (his exposure to the banks was an example of this when he was just too big a debtor for the banks to pull the plug on).

 

He may try a second time but if he does it will become personal - he will hang the failure personally on individual Republican politicians and will name them - that is the threat. Watch those pesky Republicans fall into line the next time this bill comes up.

 

 

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Hi Briggsy,

 

Most certainly other scenarios exist, however, given the "ego" factor, which I and (I guess) many would agree - is HUGE. He does seem to have given in rather easily, don't you think?

 

Anyhow, thanks for an interesting and certainly plausible addition to the debate.

 

Mal

Indeed, put like that, it does seem to support your theory.

 

However, may I put it like this. Losing is not an option for Trump. If you look back at his past (pre-politics), at his spats with journalists, writers and creditors, he was always determined to have the last word. He would bear grudges for years. He would take names. Not getting his own way was deemed a personal slight. There was little compromise. He would never accept he was wrong or he had lost.

 

He has lost this game (healthcare). He did not get the votes. So, he cancelled the game, picked up the ball and took it home. I put it that it is not that he really wanted to keep Obamacare (he has no position) but rather that he must never lose. That is his guiding light not any philosophy on social inequality.

 

Therefore, the "giving in" is not giving in in his mind, it is a tactical retreat, it is really the first round in a battle with a new foe (The Freedom Caucus) who must be dominated. The battleground (healthcare) is purely incidental.

 

If he subjugates them in some other way with some other issue, then he has won in his own mind.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Briggsy

[Peterw42]

If you cant do a "deal" with your own people/party, what chance of getting any of the simplistic populist policies through. I was always of the opinion that trumps demise would be "when" not If, 

Up until now I hadnt considered that his demise will be from within the GOP.

[Pinot]

He's not only a pathetic President, he's a crook, a traitorous crook. 

 

RussiaGate is about to blow wide open

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Pinot

[jcsmith]

Trump promised the moon to voters, who seemed willing to overlook the fact that there was no substance to it. It was based on conspiracy theories and rhetoric, and his health care reform was a great example of that. He focused on what a "disaster" Obamacare was, promised to replace it with "something terrific" and once he was elected it became clear that he had no plan at all for how to fix it. In the end he jumped on Ryan's plan which reduced the number of people covered, reduced the quality of coverage, but managed to give a huge tax break to the top 2%. And when it failed, due to not being able to get the votes from his own party (which holds majority in the house) he blamed it on Democrats (who didn't have the votes to stop it) and now seems to be cheering for Obamacare (which he is sure to not support any improvements to) to fail at the cost of the American people. He's a con man. Always has been, always will be.

 

That last four minutes of Bill Maher's show this week pretty much covers Trump's political career:
 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by jcsmith

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

If you cant do a "deal" with your own people/party, what chance of getting any of the simplistic populist policies through. I was always of the opinion that trumps demise would be "when" not If, 

Up until now I hadnt considered that his demise will be from within the GOP.

             Rep politicians sway easily. Their top priority is maintaining their political seats and keeping money flowing in.  They'll drop Trump like a bug riddled apple if it's in their personal interest to do so. Even before Trump big loss on Health Care, his Rep support was eroding.  McCain, for example, has been calling for an independent prosecutor. 

 

                 Some posters have been trying to decipher Trump's 'strategy' as if he's very smart. I'll disavow you of such mental gymnastics.  He's not smart.  Not even close.  Conniving, yes, but even a Mongoloid can be conniving.  I could put forth a list of proofs on how dumb Trump is, but I might get carpal tunnel, and the list would hog the next several pages of this topic.

 

[craigt3365]

34 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Trump promised the moon to voters, who seemed willing to overlook the fact that there was no substance to it. It was based on conspiracy theories and rhetoric, and his health care reform was a great example of that. He focused on what a "disaster" Obamacare was, promised to replace it with "something terrific" and once he was elected it became clear that he had no plan at all for how to fix it. In the end he jumped on Ryan's plan which reduced the number of people covered, reduced the quality of coverage, but managed to give a huge tax break to the top 2%. And when it failed, due to not being able to get the votes from his own party (which holds majority in the house) he blamed it on Democrats (who didn't have the votes to stop it) and now seems to be cheering for Obamacare (which he is sure to not support any improvements to) to fail at the cost of the American people. He's a con man. Always has been, always will be.

 

That last four minutes of Bill Maher's show this week pretty much covers Trump's political career:
 

 

Great video.  Just amazes me that people still support this con man.  Though judging by how many Trumpsters are no participating in these threads, I think they've given up. LOL

 

I didn't follow the election campaign at all.  But if I seen him making these promises, I would have walked away immediately.  Unreal people bought his BS.

[boomerangutang]

              To give an idea of what a petulant loser Trump is; He announced yesterday that he hopes Obamacare 'explodes'.    That's like a toddler who, when his mom tells him to let the other kid play with the toy, cries out, "I hope the toy explodes and kills her."

 

            Part of the pledge t hat the prez took on Jan 20 was ".....to uphold the laws of the US."   Yesterday, he expressly stated he will not do that.  Additionally, his mean-spirited claim will harm Americans.

 

dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/25/1647327/-Dem-Rep-Calls-Out-Trump-s-Tweet-Hoping-Obamacare-Will-Explode-As-Unconstitutional-And-Evil

 

P.S. Thanks Pinot for turning me on to dailykos.com.   Yet another venue for outing the truth about the treasonous folks in the Oval Office.

[klikster]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

The end is nigh.

 

Actually, Trump losing the health care thing shows (mostly to Republican lawmakers) that he's vulnerable and doesn't need to be blindly heeded.

 

Yet, there are bigger hits to come for Trump.  Right now, he's like Frazier in the 1st round against Ali.

I'm not sure why you would, IMHO, slander a great fighter and heavyweight champ by even mentioning him in the same post with DT ... let alone comparing them ... and suggesting that Smokin' Joe lost?  Perhaps a factoid or 2 are in order.

 

The Fight of the Century (also known as The Fight) is the title boxing writers and historians have given to the boxing match between WBC/WBA heavyweight champion Joe Frazier (26–0, 23 KOs) and Ring magazine/lineal heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali (31–0, 25 KOs), held on Monday, March 8, 1971, at Madison Square Garden in New York City.[2][3][4] Frazier won in 15 rounds via unanimous decision. It was the first time that two undefeated boxers fought each other for the heavyweight title.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_of_the_Century

 

[Peterw42]

59 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Trump promised the moon to voters, who seemed willing to overlook the fact that there was no substance to it. It was based on conspiracy theories and rhetoric, and his health care reform was a great example of that. He focused on what a "disaster" Obamacare was, promised to replace it with "something terrific" and once he was elected it became clear that he had no plan at all for how to fix it. In the end he jumped on Ryan's plan which reduced the number of people covered, reduced the quality of coverage, but managed to give a huge tax break to the top 2%. And when it failed, due to not being able to get the votes from his own party (which holds majority in the house) he blamed it on Democrats (who didn't have the votes to stop it) and now seems to be cheering for Obamacare (which he is sure to not support any improvements to) to fail at the cost of the American people. He's a con man. Always has been, always will be.

 

That last four minutes of Bill Maher's show this week pretty much covers Trump's political career:
 

 

+1

 

[spidermike007]

This was a terrible version of Trumpcare lite. It had an approval rating of 17% of the American public. So, 83% of the population did not support it. That means more than half of his fan base did not think it was good policy. No wonder it did not get approved. This was a victory for the American people. But, having said that I am no fan of Obamacare, especially the heinous mandatory provisions, which would have ended up being a disaster for the US expat population. Hopefully, another bill will get passed in the future. One that was not slapped together so haphazardly, and one that does not favor the rich, and one that is fair to the middle class, and the poor. This one was definitely not. 

 

And this is good for America in general. The deflector in chief may now realize he needs to be more deliberate, and he may realize his lack of vision will end up being costly. He used up alot of political capital, and this was a really severe black eye, to a man who is not used to dealing with a democratic form of management. 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

This was a terrible version of Trumpcare lite. It had an approval rating of 17% of the American public. So, 83% of the population did not support it. That means more than half of his fan base did not think it was good policy. No wonder it did not get approved. This was a victory for the American people. But, having said that I am no fan of Obamacare, especially the heinous mandatory provisions, which would have ended up being a disaster for the US expat population. Hopefully, another bill will get passed in the future. One that was not slapped together so haphazardly, and one that does not favor the rich, and one that is fair to the middle class, and the poor. This one was definitely not. 

 

And this is good for America in general. The deflector in chief may now realize he needs to be more deliberate, and he may realize his lack of vision will end up being costly. He used up alot of political capital, and this was a really severe black eye, to a man who is not used to dealing with a democratic form of management. 

Not sure what you're on about.

ACA law stands.

The mandate and IRS penalties for non-compliance stands.

Bona fide expats are totally EXEMPT from the mandate and fines.

If you don't meet that test, you are not exempt.

Nobody can predict the future, but I will take a crack.

The republicans (and trump) totally burned by this fiasco will not attempt a legislative repeal until after the midterm elections, and hopefully by then the democrats will take over congress. 

trump will most likely do all he can to sabotage the existing ACA and that's disgusting and murderous and very politically risky.

He hopes the voters will blame the democrats but his party has total power now and playing with American's lives like that when you have total power is horrific and if there's any hope left for American democracy, trump and his party will PAY for that.

There is a consensus political support among the PEOPLE to reform and repair ACA. That may not be possible to even start that before one or two elections. 

My other prediction, the next presidential election will likely be about going to universal health care vs. Ryanism (let the poor, old, and sick die with total "American" "freedom"). 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Jingthing

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure what you're on about.

ACA law stands.

The mandate and IRS penalties for non-compliance stands.

Bona fide expats are totally EXEMPT from the mandate and fines.

If you don't meet that test, you are not exempt.

Nobody can predict the future, but I will take a crack.

The republicans (and trump) totally burned by this fiasco will not attempt a legislative repeal until after the midterm elections, and hopefully by then the democrats will take over congress. 

trump will most likely do all he can to sabotage the existing ACA and that's disgusting and murderous and very politically risky.

He hopes the voters will blame the democrats but his party has total power now and playing with American's lives like that when you have total power is horrific and if there's any hope left for American democracy, trump and his party will PAY for that.

There is a consensus political support among the PEOPLE to reform and repair ACA. That may not be possible to even start that before one or two elections. 

My other prediction, the next presidential election will likely be about going to universal health care vs. Ryanism (let the poor, old, and sick die with total "American" "freedom"). 

 

Not true. Bona fide expats are NOT exempt. The exemption clause specifically states that the penalties will begin after 3 years, and that an expat is only exempt if he or she is living overseas for 11 months of year, and pays taxes in his country of residence. Think about this. The insurance companies got this by Obama, and knew how few of us would be paying taxes in Thailand, or the country of our residence. It was deceitful, sneaky, nasty, and Obama approved it. The penalty is $3,600 a year!

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Not true. Bona fide expats are NOT exempt. The exemption clause specifically states that the penalties will begin after 3 years, and that an expat is only exempt if he or she is living overseas for 11 months of year, and pays taxes in his country of residence. Think about this. The insurance companies got this by Obama, and knew how few of us would be paying taxes in Thailand, or the country of our residence. It was deceitful, sneaky, nasty, and Obama approved it. The penalty is $3,600 a year!

Again, what are you on about?
Dude, I clearly implied there were RULES to qualify as a bona fide expat.

If you spend too much time in the US you don't qualify.

I don't like that either I will admit but if you do repatriate before 65 you will like the chance to get health cover with preexisting conditions accepted. 

Nobody is saying ACA is perfect and doesn't need reform. But compared to trumpcare, ACA is much better. Personally, I'm for single payer universal as the ONLY way to significantly cut costs and provide cover for all citizens. 

 

To add, lower income people will not be subject to those non-compliance fines, at least I'm pretty sure about that. 

 

Of course there is no free lunch and neither ACA or anything the republicans have come up addresses the most severe issue, ridiculously high costs for almost everything in the system. Again, look to the civilized nations, it's not rocket science -- UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Not true. Bona fide expats are NOT exempt. The exemption clause specifically states that the penalties will begin after 3 years, and that an expat is only exempt if he or she is living overseas for 11 months of year, and pays taxes in his country of residence. Think about this. The insurance companies got this by Obama, and knew how few of us would be paying taxes in Thailand, or the country of our residence. It was deceitful, sneaky, nasty, and Obama approved it. The penalty is $3,600 a year!

 

Not the case.

 

"(4)Individuals residing outside United States or residents of territories

Any applicable individual shall be treated as having minimum essential coverage for any month—

(A) if such month occurs during any period described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of section 911 (d)(1) which is applicable to the individual"

 

And section 911 in turn are the requirements to qualify for foreign income exemption - either out of the country for 330 out of 365 consecutive days OR established a bona fide residence in a foreign country. 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5000A

 

No requirement to be paying taxes.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Yeah I never heard about the tax rule either but there are rules about spending time in the U.S. 

Not sure how you define establishing a bone fide residence with people that are on non-immigrant visas. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Jingthing

[Kabula]

Hold on!

 

In my opinion the deal in the short term was not lost! In time a better plan may surface for the reasons below.

 

Trump recently change the law regarding tax penalties for not having Obamacare and fewer new applications will be submitted, which will force most to cancel their policy as premiums will have to be raised dramatically to make up for massive cancelations and less new cash flow. Said actions will  cause Obamacare to self-destruct and soon. 

 

The fact of the matter is Trump care was just a watered down Obama care after negotiations and really wasn't that great. 

After Obamacare crashes totally, a new and better health plan could surface.  

The reality show will continue!

[mfd101]

Nero burns while Rome fiddles.

 

[sujoop]

2 hours ago, jcsmith said:

Trump promised the moon to voters, who seemed willing to overlook the fact that there was no substance to it. It was based on conspiracy theories and rhetoric, and his health care reform was a great example of that. He focused on what a "disaster" Obamacare was, promised to replace it with "something terrific" and once he was elected it became clear that he had no plan at all for how to fix it. In the end he jumped on Ryan's plan which reduced the number of people covered, reduced the quality of coverage, but managed to give a huge tax break to the top 2%. And when it failed, due to not being able to get the votes from his own party (which holds majority in the house) he blamed it on Democrats (who didn't have the votes to stop it) and now seems to be cheering for Obamacare (which he is sure to not support any improvements to) to fail at the cost of the American people. He's a con man. Always has been, always will be.

 

That last four minutes of Bill Maher's show this week pretty much covers Trump's political career:
 

 

Also this quote from the first 4 minutes:

"I know you 'real Americans' (Trump voters lol) hate being called stupid but first you gotta meet me half way and stop being stupid'"

 

Ah the art of the quip as the great deal maker flops again and again and again and again... Cannot be too many more debacles away from creating a major distraction like invading N Korea. What could possibly go bigly wrong?

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

My other prediction, the next presidential election will likely be about going to universal health care vs. Ryanism (let the poor, old, and sick die with total "American" "freedom"). 

Obamacare vs Embalmercare

[geriatrickid]

That's the quickest  transition to a lame duck presidency ever.

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.

 

I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.

 

Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.

 

Whilst America seems to be the epitome of what may be described as a "corporatocracy" I hope you can achieve universal health care, similar to your wealthy northern neighbour and most other "first world" tribes.

I agree, I do not think Trump ever really intended to end Obama care at all, He sure would have lost the far right wing if he didn't say it though. I am American and I can tell you that the Insurance lobby, The Bar assn.[ Lawyers], The American medical assn., and Big Pharma have so much control over these boobs in congress that we can never have universal heath care. It would take a revolution, maybe some day who knows.