For Trump, it was the lost art of the deal

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, Kabula said:

Trump recently change the law regarding tax penalties for not having Obamacare and fewer new applications will be submitted, which will force most to cancel their policy as premiums will have to be raised dramatically to make up for massive cancelations and less new cash flow. Said actions will  cause Obamacare to self-destruct and soon.

No, he did not - because he can not.  It would take legislation to eliminate the mandate and the penalty, which legislation would never get past the Senate.

 

What he did do is sign an executive order, in anticipation of the imminent repeal of the ACA, which gave non-binding guidance to federal agencies:

 

President Trump’s executive order calls for federal agencies to “exercise all authority and discretion available to them to waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement of the Act that would impose a fiscal burden,” on individuals or businesses. That reflects the president’s determination to eliminate the mandates that require individuals to carry health insurance, and for businesses with more than 50 employees to offer it. But Trump lacks the authority to eliminate those requirements without congressional approval. So, for now, they remain in effect.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Saving-Money/2017/0125/What-Trump-s-executive-order-on-Obamacare-repeal-means-for-your-health-care-coverage

 

How that will play out now that the repeal effort has failed, is still up in the air. My guess is that the agencies affected - HHS, IRS, etc., will now enforce the law as written.

 

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Whilst your "conspiracy theory" above is certainly possible, I beg to differ.

 

Your theory implies Trump has a vision, an ideological policy position and a grasp of the detail of the effects of legislation on people's lives. My view is you are giving him too much credit.

 

I believe he has no overarching vision, no ideological positions and only a very limited technical grasp of the effects of legislation on ordinary people's lives. I would also add he seems incompetent in the mechanisms of government and not willing to learn.

 

I believe he ran for President to boost his own brand and protect his business interests primarily and secondarily due to his own huge ego and lust for dominance over others.

 

He couldn't care less, in my opinion, how healthcare is paid for in America. It certainly has never affected him. He just simply wants to be praised and dominate proceedings. Any system from a socialist fully-funded system to a totally capitalist private system would be fine with Trump as long as he could crow about it and splash his name front and centre.

 

Tax reform may be a lot closer to his heart, or should I say wallet. Here self-interest comes into play as it does for most of his cabinet. I suspect he will be significantly more engaged on this.

I sure hope you are wrong, but you may not be, only time will tell.

[Srikcir]

Trump pitted himself against 24 million Americans and he lost.

No electoral college can save an elected POTUS.

[Grubster]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

If you cant do a "deal" with your own people/party, what chance of getting any of the simplistic populist policies through. I was always of the opinion that trumps demise would be "when" not If, 

Up until now I hadnt considered that his demise will be from within the GOP.

So you failed to notice how hard the GOP and its big money supporters like the Koch brothers fought against him, I would guess most of them even voted for Hillary.

[Grubster]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This was a terrible version of Trumpcare lite. It had an approval rating of 17% of the American public. So, 83% of the population did not support it. That means more than half of his fan base did not think it was good policy. No wonder it did not get approved. This was a victory for the American people. But, having said that I am no fan of Obamacare, especially the heinous mandatory provisions, which would have ended up being a disaster for the US expat population. Hopefully, another bill will get passed in the future. One that was not slapped together so haphazardly, and one that does not favor the rich, and one that is fair to the middle class, and the poor. This one was definitely not. 

 

And this is good for America in general. The deflector in chief may now realize he needs to be more deliberate, and he may realize his lack of vision will end up being costly. He used up alot of political capital, and this was a really severe black eye, to a man who is not used to dealing with a democratic form of management. 

Just curios, what does Obama care do to expats here.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, Grubster said:

So you failed to notice how hard the GOP and its big money supporters like the Koch brothers fought against him, I would guess most of them even voted for Hillary.

How hard the GOP fought against him?  Really? I think he got the support of about 80% of the GOP reps in the house supported him.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[dunroaming]

Trump must be the unfunniest joke in history.  The republicans were caught between a rock and a hard place and held their breath and crossed their fingers and tried to support their republican POTUS.  However nothing was going to save them from the political suicide this is turning out to be.

[Grubster]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

How hard the GOP fought against him?  Really? I think he got the support of about 80% of the GOP reps in the house supported him.

 

 

Not in the election they didn't, Don't forget this is the bill that the house republicans forged not Trump. Even Fox news was against Trump all the way until he won the nomination. No republican could publicly support Hillary, but I think many covertly did. They don't want their money tree shaken either.

[ilostmypassword]

12 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Not in the election they didn't, Don't forget this is the bill that the house republicans forged not Trump. Even Fox news was against Trump all the way until he won the nomination. No republican could publicly support Hillary, but I think many covertly did. They don't want their money tree shaken either.

This is truly bizarre. Trump is the guy who wants to give the wealthy huge tax cuts and huge new loopholes He wants to deregulate Wall St.  Goldman Sachs loves this guy! And you say they don't want their money tree shaken? Why should they care about a money true when Trump is about to make it rain money all over them?

Trump is the lowlife who put a stop to Obama's regulation requiring financial advisors to act in the best interests of their clients instead of their own.

Edited March 26, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Rob13]

39 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Trump must be the unfunniest joke in history.  The republicans were caught between a rock and a hard place and held their breath and crossed their fingers and tried to support their republican POTUS.  However nothing was going to save them from the political suicide this is turning out to be.

 

 

The GOP had 8 years to come up with a candidate and 7 or so to come up with an alternative to ACA. The real  joke is the GOP, Trump's just the punch line.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Rob13

[Grubster]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is truly bizarre. Trump is the guy who wants to give the wealthy huge tax cuts and huge new loopholes He wants to deregulate Wall St.  Goldman Sachs loves this guy! And you say they don't want their money tree shaken? Why should they care about a money true when Trump is about to make it rain money all over them?

Trump is the lowlife who put a stop to Obama's regulation requiring financial advisors to act in the best interests of their clients instead of their own.

You are sadly mistaken if you think that wall street and Goldman Sachs supported Trump, did you ever watch any stock market shows during the election? Obama was just an extension of the status quo that has been selling out the American worker since Ronald Reagan started it, yes they always do a little tid bit in favor of the common man but nothing significant. While the big sucking sound of US jobs going overseas continues for huge profits in the coffers of Wall street executives.

               I hope Trump closes many loop holes as he said he would, but we will see if he is but another puppet or not, I hope you know he is not in the same league as the powerful people who have been running the show, they would spend his fortune for lunch.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is truly bizarre. Trump is the guy who wants to give the wealthy huge tax cuts and huge new loopholes He wants to deregulate Wall St.  Goldman Sachs loves this guy! And you say they don't want their money tree shaken? Why should they care about a money true when Trump is about to make it rain money all over them?

Trump is the lowlife who put a stop to Obama's regulation requiring financial advisors to act in the best interests of their clients instead of their own.

Even the policies for the top end of town are devoid of details beyond the simplistic campaign rhetoric. Its free umbrellas for everyone but nobody knows how to make an umbrella, and not sure if its going to rain.

[elgordo38]

10 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.

 

I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.

 

Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.

 

Whilst America seems to be the epitome of what may be described as a "corporatocracy" I hope you can achieve universal health care, similar to your wealthy northern neighbour and most other "first world" tribes.

I like the word corporatocracy. I look forward to his tax bill and raising the debt "ceiling" He better do the former before the latter. 

[jerojero]

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.
 
I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.
 
Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.
 
Whilst America seems to be the epitome of what may be described as a "corporatocracy" I hope you can achieve universal health care, similar to your wealthy northern neighbour and most other "first world" tribes.

Universal health care? Like Canada? Never in a million years. USA political system including highly politicised supreme court will never come together for such a drastic social change. Universal health care is an outcome of social unity among citizens and socially minded politicians. That is not the US way.

[jerojero]

Trump promised the moon to voters, who seemed willing to overlook the fact that there was no substance to it. It was based on conspiracy theories and rhetoric, and his health care reform was a great example of that. He focused on what a "disaster" Obamacare was, promised to replace it with "something terrific" and once he was elected it became clear that he had no plan at all for how to fix it. In the end he jumped on Ryan's plan which reduced the number of people covered, reduced the quality of coverage, but managed to give a huge tax break to the top 2%. And when it failed, due to not being able to get the votes from his own party (which holds majority in the house) he blamed it on Democrats (who didn't have the votes to stop it) and now seems to be cheering for Obamacare (which he is sure to not support any improvements to) to fail at the cost of the American people. He's a con man. Always has been, always will be.
 
That last four minutes of Bill Maher's show this week pretty much covers Trump's political career:
 
 

As Bill said, Trump's a con man who'll say anything to get a sale or in this case get elected. And all con men never deliver. Trump is perfect example.

[Jingthing]

Universal health care? Like Canada? Never in a million years. USA political system including highly politicised supreme court will never come together for such a drastic social change. Universal health care is an outcome of social unity among citizens and socially minded politicians. That is not the US way.

I wouldn't say never.

[jcsmith]

2 hours ago, jerojero said:

Universal health care? Like Canada? Never in a million years. USA political system including highly politicised supreme court will never come together for such a drastic social change. Universal health care is an outcome of social unity among citizens and socially minded politicians. That is not the US way.

A lot of Americans would support it. It was part of what made Bernie Sanders so popular. The establishment would fight against it, but I don't think it's an impossibility.

Edited March 26, 2017 by jcsmith

[elgordo38]

The Art of the Deal did not seem to cut it for this huge Trump supporter 

3. A MAN WHO BELIEVED IN A BETTER HEALTH CARE PLAN

Kraig Moss was no average Trump supporter – he was downright fanatical. He sold his business equipment so he could follow the then presidential candidate around the country to his various campaign rallies, all the while writing and performing songs about the man he idolized.

At one of these rallies, he had a moment to connect with Trump. Moss broke down while discussing his son who died of a heroin overdose, and Trump comforted him. Throughout his campaign, Trump pledged to help people suffering from addiction.

However, when the Trump-backed American Health Care Act finally came out, Moss discovered that the new plan would not be expanding addiction services. In fact, it actually stripped the requirement for states to provide addiction treatment to patients in need.

Seeing what a mess this legislation is, Moss admits he now feels betrayed by the president. “The bill is an absolute betrayal of what Trump represented on the campaign trail,” he said. Rather than singing about the president, Moss is devoting his time to raising money for a drug rehabilitation center.

 

Here is 4 more disillusioned Trump voters

http://www.care2.com/causes/5-trump-voters-who-realized-the-president-doesnt-have-their-backs.html

[maprao]

Stock market up 2.2 trillion and rising


Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[uptheos]

20 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Personally let me disclose I am not an American - never been there, but have visited 82 countries.

 

I think that Mr Trump has the outcome he wanted from the beginning. His meeting with Mr Obama prior to the election, plus some of the points raised in the above article are "some" of the things that seem to point this way. He has abandoned this pledge far to easily.

 

Brand me a conspiracy theorist if you like. But, I still think Mr Trump has been underestimated, if it is, in fact, what he wanted all along, his "negotiation" through the system is a stroke of genius.

 

Whilst America seems to be the epitome of what may be described as a "corporatocracy" I hope you can achieve universal health care, similar to your wealthy northern neighbour and most other "first world" tribes.

I'm not sure what visiting 82 countries has to do with the topic, but anyway.

 

It must be obvious to everyone that although Trump was the one shouting about a new health care deal, we all know he has not been in politics long enough to know everything that has been going on behind the scenes since Obamacare was created.

 

The brains behind what would replace Obamacare was conceived and closely guarded for 7 years by the speaker of the house Paul Ryan, who must surely be the one to take the blame, after putting a new plan together for 7 years and guarding it closely. He knows all the ins and outs, who would and who wouldn't vote in favor, in fact he's had so much time it all went to his head.

 

Apart from feeling aggrieved that he was beaten by Trump and there have been many  other teddies thrown out of the Ryan pram, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't a little bit pleased it got voted down. I think he's a slime ball who wanted to be president, knows he could never have pulled off what Trump did and he should do the right thing and resign immediately It was basically HIS new care bill that lost, not really the POTUS, who because of his political naivety is perhaps too trusting in some of his staff.

 

[mfd101]

10 hours ago, jcsmith said:

A lot of Americans would support it. It was part of what made Bernie Sanders so popular. The establishment would fight against it, but I don't think it's an impossibility.

Given that large numbers of poor, unemployed and working class Usofans consistently vote against their own best interests (or don't vote at all), it does seem unlikely.

[boomerangutang]

19 hours ago, klikster said:

I'm not sure why you would, IMHO, slander a great fighter and heavyweight champ by even mentioning him in the same post with DT ... let alone comparing them ... and suggesting that Smokin' Joe lost?  Perhaps a factoid or 2 are in order.

 

The Fight of the Century (also known as The Fight) is the title boxing writers and historians have given to the boxing match between WBC/WBA heavyweight champion Joe Frazier (26–0, 23 KOs) and Ring magazine/lineal heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali (31–0, 25 KOs), held on Monday, March 8, 1971, at Madison Square Garden in New York City.[2][3][4] Frazier won in 15 rounds via unanimous decision. It was the first time that two undefeated boxers fought each other for the heavyweight title.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_of_the_Century

 

Ali won by unanimous decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Joe_Frazier_II

[Briggsy]

4 hours ago, uptheos said:

I'm not sure what visiting 82 countries has to do with the topic, but anyway.

 

It must be obvious to everyone that although Trump was the one shouting about a new health care deal, we all know he has not been in politics long enough to know everything that has been going on behind the scenes since Obamacare was created.

 

The brains behind what would replace Obamacare was conceived and closely guarded for 7 years by the speaker of the house Paul Ryan, who must surely be the one to take the blame, after putting a new plan together for 7 years and guarding it closely. He knows all the ins and outs, who would and who wouldn't vote in favor, in fact he's had so much time it all went to his head.

 

Apart from feeling aggrieved that he was beaten by Trump and there have been many  other teddies thrown out of the Ryan pram, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't a little bit pleased it got voted down. I think he's a slime ball who wanted to be president, knows he could never have pulled off what Trump did and he should do the right thing and resign immediately It was basically HIS new care bill that lost, not really the POTUS, who because of his political naivety is perhaps too trusting in some of his staff.

 

LMAO at this post.

 

Trump ran for President on the basis of around 5 key promises. He picked them. He chose the narrative.

 

One of them was to restructure healthcare making it "better at a fraction of the cost IMMEDIATELY".

 

When he fails to deliver, it's Ryan's fault because Trump "has not been in politics long enough". Ridiculous.

 

I will give you another scenario.

 

Trump was completely bloviating whipping the crowd's anger up, blaming Obama for everything. He had no plan. He could not be bothered to look into or work on the details. He was making fantastic promises that he could never deliver on.

 

When he gained the presidency, he delegated the job of coming up with a healthcare plan to others. Surprise, surprise, the Republicans come up with a plan that involves tax cuts for their wealthy donors. The plan tried to match Trump's rhetoric whilst also meeting Republican Party priorities. This was an impossible compromise because the two were miles apart. Result = failure.

 

Expect to see more of the same except on issues where Trump's personal interests are affected such as his investments in Russia. In those cases he will move heaven and earth to ensure he gets his way even if the U.S. nation loses heavily.

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Trump was completely bloviating whipping the crowd's anger up, blaming Obama for everything. He had no plan. He could not be bothered to look into or work on the details. He was making fantastic promises that he could never deliver on.

Exactly.  And the Trump supporters bought it hook, line and sinker.  Just read an article about the failed health care bill.  Basically saying Trump knew nothing about the details.  Just wanted to kill "Obamacare". It said when the dems got the ACA passed, the details were staggering. 

 

I've also read where the republicans who supported this bill are having big problems back in their home turf.  The article said they are going to have a tough time explaining why they supported such a lousy bill. 

 

Crazy times.

[rijb]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Exactly.  And the Trump supporters bought it hook, line and sinker.  Just read an article about the failed health care bill.  Basically saying Trump knew nothing about the details.  Just wanted to kill "Obamacare". It said when the dems got the ACA passed, the details were staggering. 

 

I've also read where the republicans who supported this bill are having big problems back in their home turf.  The article said they are going to have a tough time explaining why they supported such a lousy bill. 

 

Crazy times.

I think Trump thinks he's the boss, because he's President.  And he expected Congress to do whatever he tells them to do.  Wait until Trump finds out he can't fire them.  

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, uptheos said:

I'm not sure what visiting 82 countries has to do with the topic, but anyway.

 

It must be obvious to everyone that although Trump was the one shouting about a new health care deal, we all know he has not been in politics long enough to know everything that has been going on behind the scenes since Obamacare was created.

 

The brains behind what would replace Obamacare was conceived and closely guarded for 7 years by the speaker of the house Paul Ryan, who must surely be the one to take the blame, after putting a new plan together for 7 years and guarding it closely. He knows all the ins and outs, who would and who wouldn't vote in favor, in fact he's had so much time it all went to his head.

 

Apart from feeling aggrieved that he was beaten by Trump and there have been many  other teddies thrown out of the Ryan pram, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't a little bit pleased it got voted down. I think he's a slime ball who wanted to be president, knows he could never have pulled off what Trump did and he should do the right thing and resign immediately It was basically HIS new care bill that lost, not really the POTUS, who because of his political naivety is perhaps too trusting in some of his staff.

 

If Trump was incapable of understanding that this bill was about massively reducing taxes on the rich and slashing Medicaid, then he's really not competent to be President.

[Berkshire]

On 3/26/2017 at 9:28 AM, sujoop said:

All these losses...Sad. 

Trump promised wins...Loser.

Deal-master...Failure.

Almost time for a grand diversion. Like say, a Grenada, except with Nukes....
'It's gonna be Yuuugggee, BELIEVE me, and we will win so much, you'll get tired of winning'

 

When this is all over, it'll be covered in his new book, "The Art of the Squeal." 

[klikster]

7 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Ali won by unanimous decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Joe_Frazier_II

Outcome of fight II ... so ... still not a very good reason and pretty silly (IMHO) to compare Trump to Frazier.

 

Actually one was a heavyweight world champ, the other ... again IMHO ... a lightweight carney barker.