British Ambassador says that embassy land deal not complete "contrary to rumors"

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Scotland had a referendum on indelendance last year and they voted to remain part of the UK

That was before the brexiteers began their path to disaster. 

 

Scotland voted to remain in the eu and quite rightly believe they should be allowed to vote on independence again due to the new situation imposed on them by the brexiteers. 

 

 

Oh and the referendum was back in September 2014, not last year. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Bluespunk

[fruitman]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Scotland has no choice. 

 

They have been refused a referendum on independence and will leave the eu whether they want to or not. 

Of course they have a choice...if they want to be in the EU then there's a way....the EU will help them.

 

I just saw a great movie from the Spanish MEP where he is speaking (In Latin of course) to the Brits how stupid they are to leave the EU...He even can't speak english i guess.

 

He said this: Brexit is the most selfish decision ever made since Winston Churchill saved Europe with the blood, sweat and tears of the English

 

Always fun to see the receiving end fulminating the paying end.

[Bluespunk]

15 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Of course they have a choice...if they want to be in the EU then there's a way....the EU will help them.

 

I just saw a great movie from the Spanish MEP where he is speaking (In Latin of course) to the Brits how stupid they are to leave the EU...He even can't speak english i guess.

 

He said this: Brexit is the most selfish decision ever made since Winston Churchill saved Europe with the blood, sweat and tears of the English

 

Always fun to see the receiving end fulminating the paying end.

They don't have a choice if they are in the uk.

 

The EU has No obligation to allow Scotland to remain while they are part of the uk. 

 

Scotland as a nation is not a member of the eu. They have rights as eu citizens due to their association with the uk. 

 

"Meanwhile, Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, has told Ms Sturgeon that Scotland would have to “join the back of the queue” if it wanted EU membership, as Spain is opposed to the break up of the UK."

Edited March 30, 2017 by Bluespunk

[fruitman]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

They don't have a choice if they are in the uk.

 

The EU has No obligation to allow Scotland to remain while they are part of the uk. 

 

Scotland as a nation is not a member of the eu. They have rights as eu citizens due to their association with the uk. 

 

"Meanwhile, Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, has told Ms Sturgeon that Scotland would have to “join the back of the queue” if it wanted EU membership, as Spain is opposed to the break up of the UK."

Scottland can go out of the UK and join the EU if they like that.

Who cares what Spain wants? They are netto receivers of the EU...not payers..

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, fruitman said:

Scottland can go out of the UK and join the EU if they like that.

Who cares what Spain wants? They are netto receivers of the EU...not payers..

To hold a referendum on independence Scotland needs the approval of Westminster parliament.

 

theresa may has already said this will not happen while brexit is ongoing.  

 

As to Spain's attitude to Scotland joining...

 

"In order to join the European Union, it is required for all member states to agree; if a single member state disagrees, the applying country is declined acceptance to the European Union."

Edited March 31, 2017 by Bluespunk

[fruitman]

20 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

"In order to join the European Union, it is required for all member states to agree; if a single member state disagrees, the applying country is declined acceptance to the European Union."

Holland held a referendum where the majority voted against the membership of the Ukrain. They didn't respect that vote though so the whole democracy in the EU is NOT working.

 

Scottland gets much more respect within the EU than the Ukrain.....

[Bluespunk]

22 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Holland held a referendum where the majority voted against the membership of the Ukrain. They didn't respect that vote though so the whole democracy in the EU is NOT working.

 

Scottland gets much more respect within the EU than the Ukrain.....

The Ukraine is not a member of the eu. 

 

The referendum in the Netherlands took place after the current deals with Ukraine were signed and was non binding. 

 

The choice of of the Netherlands govt to respect or not respect the wishes of referendum held there is for the Netherlands govt to make. 

 

The eu has no say in how the Netherlands govt responds to referendums held there.

 

They have far to much respect for the decisions of national governments to do that. 

 

If the Dutch hold a binding referendum rejecting Ukraine's eu membership and the Dutch govt respects that, then the Ukraine will not join. 

 

Democracy alive and well in the eu. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Bluespunk

[JAG]

Britain or the UK is no longer important. Everyone knows this except British expats living in Thailand. 

And from which misunderstood and unappreciated global power house do you hail from? "Machiavelli" - not Italy by any chance?

[Kinnock]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 7:19 PM, nahkit said:

Really? So what's going to happen to Wales?

Who cares?

[Lamkyong]

21 hours ago, Machiavelli said:

Britain or the UK is no longer important. Everyone knows this except British expats living in Thailand. 

FO

[RuamRudy]

21 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

As to Spain's attitude to Scotland joining...

 

"In order to join the European Union, it is required for all member states to agree; if a single member state disagrees, the applying country is declined acceptance to the European Union."

That is a recital of the rules, not an expression of objection.

 

The former Spanish Foreign Minister is on record as having stated that as long as Scotland secedes from the UK in a formal and legally recognised manner (i.e. not via UDI) then Spain would not object to it joining the EU.

 

As for back of the queue, that is clearly meaningless. Turkey has been queuing up since 1987 without causing a log jam.

[jayboy]

51 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That is a recital of the rules, not an expression of objection.

 

The former Spanish Foreign Minister is on record as having stated that as long as Scotland secedes from the UK in a formal and legally recognised manner (i.e. not via UDI) then Spain would not object to it joining the EU.

 

As for back of the queue, that is clearly meaningless. Turkey has been queuing up since 1987 without causing a log jam.

The British Embassy reflects the views of the liberal London cultural establishment.It wasn't always like this but I suppose it's inevitable now.One curious aspect is that this set of values is often not shared by host countries.The Foreign Office at the upper level is staffed by very smart people and would not make the mistake of pushing London values in countries where they would be unwelcome or even seem bizarre.Diversity (a good thing) is the current fashion but our diplomats don't go overboard on this in countries like China, Russia, Saudi Arabia or Japan.However in Thailand there often seems to be a mindset that we should preach to the Thais about human rights, diversity, LBGT issues etc etc as though the Brits have some special mission to preach the wisdom of Guardianista views.

 

Sometimes our diplomats are just deluded thinking hiso influential Thais, sometimes educated at smart schools and Oxbridge share our views on social diversity.One of these upper crust Thais a few years ago complained that British diplomats would be much more influential if they conformed more to the old style public school educated gentleman type rather than the current estuary accented representatives of "Modern Britain." Actually it's rather important our diplomats should be well educated, socially confident and if possible urbane.If these types can be found throughout society that's great.But one fears (actually one knows ) that many such potential diplomats are not chosen  - in the interests of "diversity".

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

That is a recital of the rules, not an expression of objection.

 

The former Spanish Foreign Minister is on record as having stated that as long as Scotland secedes from the UK in a formal and legally recognised manner (i.e. not via UDI) then Spain would not object to it joining the EU.

 

As for back of the queue, that is clearly meaningless. Turkey has been queuing up since 1987 without causing a log jam.

In the full version of my post (you have only partially quoted it) I point out that  theresa may has made it clear there will be no referendum on independence until after brexit. 

 

Therefore Scotland and will leave the eu along with the rest of the uk. 

 

That has had been the point I have made all along in this thread. 

 

I never said an independent Scotland can't join. 

 

However, while feasible, it is unlikely Spain would approve given its attitude towards regions of a nation state becoming independent.

 

Due to the Basque and Catalonia seperatist movements still having a lot of support, they would want to make it clear any region breaking away would be denied eu membership by Spain. 

 

Kind of a threat to use against those thinking of supporting a move for a referendum on independence. 

 

They might change this state of mind in the future, but it's hard to see why they would at present. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[smutcakes]

The cheek of a basket case like Spain telling Scotland to join the back of the queue! 

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

The cheek of a basket case like Spain telling Scotland to join the back of the queue! 

Great book called the "Spanish Holocaust" by Paul Preston which explains a lot about the current state of Spanish government  and the nation as a whole. 

 

Very disturbing read mind, had to put it down a number of times and find something else to do. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

In the full version of my post (you have only partially quoted it) I point out that  theresa may has made it clear there will be no referendum on independence until after brexit. 

 

Therefore Scotland and will leave the eu along with the rest of the uk. 

 

That has had been the point I have made all along in this thread. 

 

I never said an independent Scotland can't join. 

 

However, while feasible, it is unlikely Spain would approve given its attitude towards regions of a nation state becoming independent.

 

Due to the Basque and Catalonia seperatist movements still having a lot of support, they would want to make it clear any region breaking away would be denied eu membership by Spain. 

 

Kind of a threat to use against those thinking of supporting a move for a referendum on independence. 

 

They might change this state of mind in the future, but it's hard to see why they would at present. 

 

You started of your comment about Spain's possible veto of a Scottish application with the words 'As to...', indicating that it was a separate matter, as it clearly is. I had no comment to add to the prior statement so my ommission of it was not intended to convey a different meaning to your words.

 

I also never suggested that Scotland cannot join - and as I mentioned, the Spanish Foreign Minister has gone on record to say that there would be no Spanish veto if the path to Scottish independence was internationally recognised. Therefore, your above statement, 'while feasible, it is unlikely Spain would approve ' has no basis upon reality.

 

Spain promises non-interference on Scotland

"Spain has no intention of interfering in Scotland’s push for independence and is willing to consider an eventual Scottish application to join the EU as a separate state, the foreign minister said in remarks that will bolster the nationalist campaign."

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You started of your comment about Spain's possible veto of a Scottish application with the words 'As to...', indicating that it was a separate matter, as it clearly is. I had no comment to add to the prior statement so my ommission of it was not intended to convey a different meaning to your words.

 

I also never suggested that Scotland cannot join - and as I mentioned, the Spanish Foreign Minister has gone on record to say that there would be no Spanish veto if the path to Scottish independence was internationally recognised. Therefore, your above statement, 'while feasible, it is unlikely Spain would approve ' has no basis upon reality.

 

Spain promises non-interference on Scotland

"Spain has no intention of interfering in Scotland’s push for independence and is willing to consider an eventual Scottish application to join the EU as a separate state, the foreign minister said in remarks that will bolster the nationalist campaign."

I hope you are right as Scotland made clear its views on eu membership during brexit,  but Spain has made its attitude clear in the past. 

 

However as as I said, my point on this thread has been that Scotland has no choice in whether it leaves the eu or not, given the brexiteers refusal to allow a referendum on independence until after brexit. 

 

They want to spread the misery as far as possible. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Bluespunk