Disease from Ticks. Best deterrent product/s?

[avander]

The below was manually transferred from another thread initially regarding a query on Lymes disease.

____________________________

 

  1 hour ago, Sophon said:

I don't know where you got that impression from, but it is definitely not true. Even without knowing the situation in Australia I would hazard a guess that the risk is exponentially higher here in Thailand.

 

A couple of years ago one of our dogs went off his food. He was still eating, but seemed less interested in food than before. We took him to the vet and had him tested, and he tested positive for Ehrlichiosis Canis and his kidney function was severely compromised. The rest of our dogs were showing no symptoms at all, but we still took them to be tested "just to be sure". Out of the remaining seven dogs, six tested positive for Ehrlichiosis and two for Anaplasmosis on top of that. Despite having caught the disease early (the remaining dogs had close to normal blood cell, liver and kidney values), and despite treating them with Doxycycline, iron supplements and (for one dog) steroids and blood transfusion, three of our dogs still died. Two died from kidney failure and one from total collapse of the blood platelets. It took six months on Doxycycline before the remaining dogs were all back to normal.

 

Since then we have had two more of our (new) dogs test positive for Ehrlichiosis as well as two more "outside" dogs (dogs that technically belongs to other people, but that we take care of). One of the "outside" dogs had very bad blood cell values (much worse than the one that died) and couldn't even stand up, but luckily no more dogs have died. And these are all dogs that receive Ivermectin every month and we almost never find any ticks on any of them. But not seeing any ticks doesn't necessarily mean that the dog hasn't been bitten by one.

 

The snap test used for checking tick parasite diseases also shows Lyme disease, but our long time vet had never seen any positive test for that disease here in Thailand. Ehrlichiosis Canis and Anaplasmosis on the other hand are endemic everywhere in Thailand, and the risk of your dog getting those diseases is very high. So take whatever preventive measures you can to avoid ticks, and take your dog in for testing if he acts differently than he normally does.

 

Sophon

Thanks for the response!!

Since I originally posted one of our 2 small dogs has actually had 2 cases of Ehrlichiosis Canis infection.   Actually this was not very long after my original post in this thread July last year,. We got him off to the Vet after he seemed to develop a fever and went off his food not seeming himself.  We were told we were lucky to bring him in when we did as another week and he would have died.  He had treatment for about two weeks and further blood tests showed he had recovered completely.  

The second time was a couple of weeks ago when the same dog also started to go off his food and did not seem himself generally.  Being forewarned after a small course of tablets he has now recovered.  We also found a couple of ticks on him this time.

 

We use a "cheap" Thai version of a Frontline type product applied externally on the dogs back between the shoulders.  I now assume that this cheap version does not work for the advertised month and may also "wash off" more readily (being mainly house dogs ours get a quick wash every week.  We are now considering more expensive tick collars and/or an injection every month.  We're also giving them both more visual inspections.  

Any advice on recommended brands and/or treatments would be appreciated.  

It's also really strange that only one of our dogs is affected.  The one unaffected seems to be of no interest to the ticks?

[meatboy]

first i would like to ask what part of thailand do you live.

i have a few posts going right now,especially low platelet count.

to comment further please i would like to now the first.  Q.

[avander]

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

first i would like to ask what part of thailand do you live.

i have a few posts going right now,especially low platelet count.

to comment further please i would like to now the first.  Q.

We're living in the Chonburi area.

[meatboy]

21 minutes ago, avander said:

We're living in the Chonburi area.

thanks for your swift reply,all of us on this forum know what its like to see our loved ones suffer,as its been posted before there is no magic bullet,we all use different meds,but most of all we must check manually ourselves every day.

there is a topic we are discussing right now, A CANCER SPECAILIST ANYONE KNOWS OF ONE.

besides my posts on low platelet there are many posts regading ticks and treatments.

over more than 2yrs.ago we had on this forum many TV members who were willing to descuss our experiance's with the illness our loyal freinds,but it doesnt seem to be that many,maybe its tooooooooooo upsetting,i know there is heart breaking thoughts going on in my mind[the past 2yrs.]

meatboy.

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, avander said:

We're living in the Chonburi area.

i have a few topics that are interesting,

page 3 BLOOD PARASITES by strange 45posts.

page 3 meatboy /mrs.meat wish for 2016.

page 4 frontline vs.front guard.

page 5 hidden danger 56posts.

there are many more if you go back past page 5.

[avander]

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

The problem with all medication you use against ticks and flees, is that the tick or flee has to be on the dog to get in contact with it. And some medication only works when the tick/flee has been taking the blood from your dog (Like Ivermectine and Bravecto). And only one infected tick is enough to make your dog very sick. 

 

We use very consequent different medicines. (not sure if the name "medicine" is correct here) We use shampoo (tick/flees die direct after contact with the dog, do not need to drink the blood) Dropps in the neck (depending on the brand, the ticks (please read also flees when I only use ticks) do not like the smell, or they die, or they die after drinking the blood) Ivermectine and Bravecto, both very effective, but ticks must drink the blood before they die. Ivermectine also protects against heartworm, and many other parasites.

 

What helped us a lot is since we closed our property with an electrical fence, we do not see visiting dogs, and our dogs do not go out. I found that ticks can survive five years without a host in grass, but already in a few weeks the supply from ticks dropped remarkable.

 

We find usual two kind of ticks, the small very hard ones, according our vet they belong to chickens., and the light brown ones (light brown when they are bigger, dark brown when very small, then they move like a crab, but quite fast) When you squeeze a tick, and the blood is very dark, and thick, the tick is close to die because the medicine you provide to your dog to kill ticks, starts to work.

 

All by all it is a long read, but please read some posts from Meatboy. He gives very good information.

 

Arjen.

 

More informed now with really quite fantastic information from both Arjen and Meatboy and the other posters in the suggested and other threads so thank you very, very much.   

I am more informed now.  

 

The Local clinic we take our dogs too have been very good in their treatments and not expensive.  With one of our dogs current infection still being treated he will go back again and so we will ask the vet about Ivermectine injections which seemed to get some good "press" here and if necessary, get the "white feet" gene test to see if it is a suitable treatment for our Shitzhou.

We have been using Alprocide (No English on the bottles) which seems similar to Frontline and a lot cheaper.  It keeps the fleas away but seems increasingly ineffective against Ticks. As I said, they get a quick wash at home once a week so the topical applications of the local product may not work so well.  

 

Maybe we'll need to combined treatments and will seek further advice from the vet.

[meatboy]

23 hours ago, avander said:

We're living in the Chonburi area.

also i would like to ask are your pets kept indoors overnight?

ours sleeps with us and it was 18months ago when we had a tick infection around the bedroom.

we sprayed bayticol all around the skirting boards,and the bedding with chaingard.we used to find the tiny shiney black ones dead on the bed,and the brown dog ticks[they are the worst] climbing up the walls and curtains.it is now 15months since we had any tick in the house or on our boy. we use controline drop on and heartguard for mosquito's.

the brown dog ticks are the ones that carry the E-CANIS , as i suspect your loved one has had the blood tests,so study them and get to know the counts and the range for each of the results.

example blood chemistry 

WBC. RESULT       CANINE RANGE.

            10,000        6,000 - 17,000

so if your count is within the range that means your WHITE BLOOD CELLS ARE OK.below or above your dog will need a blood supplment

all the blood chemistry names are abreveiated.which if you google them you will find what they repersent.eg.ALT [LIVER]

any time you are concerned if the dog is not well HAVE A SNAP TEST,sometimes that test can tell if any parasites are present.

meatboy keep your loved ones SAFE.

[avander]

45 minutes ago, meatboy said:

also i would like to ask are your pets kept indoors overnight?

ours sleeps with us and it was 18months ago when we had a tick infection around the bedroom.

we sprayed bayticol all around the skirting boards,and the bedding with chaingard.we used to find the tiny shiney black ones dead on the bed,and the brown dog ticks[they are the worst] climbing up the walls and curtains.it is now 15months since we had any tick in the house or on our boy. we use controline drop on and heartguard for mosquito's.

the brown dog ticks are the ones that carry the E-CANIS , as i suspect your loved one has had the blood tests,so study them and get to know the counts and the range for each of the results.

example blood chemistry 

WBC. RESULT       CANINE RANGE.

            10,000        6,000 - 17,000

so if your count is within the range that means your WHITE BLOOD CELLS ARE OK.below or above your dog will need a blood supplment

all the blood chemistry names are abreveiated.which if you google them you will find what they repersent.eg.ALT [LIVER]

any time you are concerned if the dog is not well HAVE A SNAP TEST,sometimes that test can tell if any parasites are present.

meatboy keep your loved ones SAFE.

Yes, they both sleep in the house. One in my kids room and the other with us.  Being Shitzhou they are quite small (not toy) so they are in the house 95% of the time.  We live in a shop-house on a main street with 8 villas behind us where we take our  dogs 2-3 times a day to do their business.  Mostly concrete and not a lot of greenery about.  Nor are there a lot of Soi dogs but there are quite a few pets and my dogs sometimes come into contact with them.  Haven't seen any ticks or fleas anywhere in the house only on the dogs. Never many and only one of our dogs has had the low platelet issue.... twice now.  I am familiar with reading the blood count test now.  Are these the snap tests you mention as the vet seems to do them quite readily and we get a printed result from the machine.  The vet circles the areas of issue but it includes standard ranges so it's easy to check.

 

Thank yo so much for all the help and advice. It really is appreciated.

[meatboy]

a snap test is the only one that can detect most of the disease's which we come in contact with in thailand.

our boy is a siberian husky we rescued when he was only one yr.old,he was well looked after for the first 9months then his owner had to work away so family members didnt care for him,so my B.I.L. got him for us after he had been missing for quite awhile.

when we got him he was in a bad way, and was lucky to survive.

but after our love and affection he is everyone's freind.

him having a double coat we have to check him every night[in bed] laid on his back legs in the air.

as you state you walk your dogs neer to where others have been,so it might be a good idea to make up a spray with bayticol and spray the area,we do the same in our yard,but its secured by a wall and locked gates so the only intruders we get are around 3mts.long but so far no poisoness ones.

we did find out where our boy had come in contact with a parasite carrier[his only freind] sadly that freind passed away.

we should have learnt more about ticks and the then vet should have warned us,but he was more interested in what he could get out of us than the welfare of the dog,and yes there have been a few more that have felt the wrath of mrs.meat.

 

[teddog]

Ecro-Tak (amitraz) is effective. I fill a plastic spray bottle 4ml to 1 litre    and spray everyting with it,really effective on ticks,even a quick spray along the dogs body length.  The bed I sleep in gets a spray too.

 

  Genuine ivermectin I find more effective.  The noise producing device  worn around the neck is supposed to be good on ticks  but do not think its available in Thailand

[kickstart]

If a dog  has  Anaplasmosis  the best  drug  is  Imazole   it can be treated with   Oxcytetracyin    ,but   the best   treatment is   Imazol  plus OTC  dogs  can  get  Babesei   another  tick  born   disease    Imazole can teat  this .or  Berenil  can be used.

 

But  some  local vets  might not stock Imazol  at 2600 baht bottle ,not   cheap  and it has a short  helf   life  .

 As has been said before  preventing  ticks  is the best  policy, I have  used the  Chinese knock off  Ivermectin   for a long time  now , with  no problems.    

[jak2002003]

12 minutes ago, Arjen said:

 

Problem is that with evertything you use on your dog, the tick is already on the dog. And for being killed by Ivermectine the ticks need to drink blood....

That's right, but when the ticks die, they are gone... they can't reproduce and infest your house and land with more tick for the future.  Regular use of the Ivermectine will eventually wipe out the tick population in the house.. and most of them in the garden... so its great to prevent exposure to the tick diseases.

 

My 2 dogs got the live parasite from ticks.  One was only a puppy and nearly died.  I know the signs now straight away... and my older dog got it a second time about a year later.

 

Now I always use Ivermectine drops on the back of their necks... and I have not seen a tick on them for many years now... nor seen any on my land. 

 

(I also got a few Guinea Fowl on the property as they love to eat ticks and other insects)

 

 

[meatboy]

9 hours ago, kickstart said:

If a dog  has  Anaplasmosis  the best  drug  is  Imazole   it can be treated with   Oxcytetracyin    ,but   the best   treatment is   Imazol  plus OTC  dogs  can  get  Babesei   another  tick  born   disease    Imazole can teat  this .or  Berenil  can be used.

 

But  some  local vets  might not stock Imazol  at 2600 baht bottle ,not   cheap  and it has a short  helf   life  .

 As has been said before  preventing  ticks  is the best  policy, I have  used the  Chinese knock off  Ivermectin   for a long time  now , with  no problems.    

i wouldnt recomend BERENIL not used for animals in the USA as its only sold for human TRYPANOSOMIASIS and has serious side affects.

there is a good web site for babesei WWW.SECOND CHANCE.

[meatboy]

as our boy was found with the hepatoozon canis over 2yrs.ago,this disease is not transmitted by the parasite bite but by your beloved eating an infected tick [the brown dog one].

thats one problem we have our boy will eat most insects.

[meatboy]

ivermectine brand name [stromectol]

[meatboy]

9 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Is that the drop in the neck?

 

i have only used it in tablet form,as in heartguard,the doseage is very important i am not sure what else i have which contains it.

but making sure the doseage is right is very important.

[dick dasterdly]

On 4/1/2017 at 5:37 PM, Arjen said:

Please use different medicines. Let them overlapp in time. So when you use shampoo what says, repeat treatment in a week, use the dropps in the neck after four days. These dropps, usuall work for a month, give Ivermectine (oral) after three weeks, after another three weeks (Ivermectine usual works a month)  use shampoo. Then again, dropps in the neck (a different brand) or Ivermectine injection. On this way you do not overthose your beloved one, and it is always more or less protected. 

 

It is the way we do it already for several years.... But as I said, closing our property for visiting dogs, and prevent our dogs go out was the biggest improvement in our fight against ticks and flees.

 

The words "beloved one" I stole from Meatboy....

 

Arjen.

I'm not convinced that a barrage of poisons is best for our pets...., but agree about having to change any 'back of the neck' drops as they become ineffective after a while.

 

Does anyone know why?  Does the pet's defence mechanisms/immune system come into play and (largely) nullify the product making it ineffective? 

 

I'd add that as far as I know there are ZERO effective tick repellents - and as we all know, once our dog has been bitten by the 'wrong' tick, its already too late to prevent a blood infection .

[dick dasterdly]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:13 AM, meatboy said:

also i would like to ask are your pets kept indoors overnight?

ours sleeps with us and it was 18months ago when we had a tick infection around the bedroom.

we sprayed bayticol all around the skirting boards,and the bedding with chaingard.we used to find the tiny shiney black ones dead on the bed,and the brown dog ticks[they are the worst] climbing up the walls and curtains.it is now 15months since we had any tick in the house or on our boy. we use controline drop on and heartguard for mosquito's.

the brown dog ticks are the ones that carry the E-CANIS , as i suspect your loved one has had the blood tests,so study them and get to know the counts and the range for each of the results.

example blood chemistry 

WBC. RESULT       CANINE RANGE.

            10,000        6,000 - 17,000

so if your count is within the range that means your WHITE BLOOD CELLS ARE OK.below or above your dog will need a blood supplment

all the blood chemistry names are abreveiated.which if you google them you will find what they repersent.eg.ALT [LIVER]

any time you are concerned if the dog is not well HAVE A SNAP TEST,sometimes that test can tell if any parasites are present.

meatboy keep your loved ones SAFE.

And that's the other problem.... Quick tests are problematic as they can register a 'positive' reading from a previous episode - so the vet has no idea whether its a new infection or immune system reaction to a previous infection.

 

Or something along those lines, I've been through this so often I forget the details .

[dick dasterdly]

13 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

That's right, but when the ticks die, they are gone... they can't reproduce and infest your house and land with more tick for the future.  Regular use of the Ivermectine will eventually wipe out the tick population in the house.. and most of them in the garden... so its great to prevent exposure to the tick diseases.

 

My 2 dogs got the live parasite from ticks.  One was only a puppy and nearly died.  I know the signs now straight away... and my older dog got it a second time about a year later.

 

Now I always use Ivermectine drops on the back of their necks... and I have not seen a tick on them for many years now... nor seen any on my land. 

 

(I also got a few Guinea Fowl on the property as they love to eat ticks and other insects)

 

 

I'm hoping Bravecto will have the same effect, but not convinced as infestations have occurred so many times in the past.

 

The outbreak before last I sprayed all the likely indoor areas (impossible outside - too large an area) with Baytol (?) and did so again with the last outbreak (which wasn't as bad as previously).

 

So fingers crossed that the combined onslaught of Bravecto and Baytol (when necessary) will eventually result in only the 'odd' tick every now and again, rather than infestations.

 

Edit - Sorry for the multitude of posts, but I (and my dogs ) have had so many problems with ticks that, like everyone else, I'm constantly looking for the solution.

[kickstart]

13 hours ago, meatboy said:

i wouldnt recomend not used for animals in the USA as its only sold for human TRYPANOSOMIASIS and has serious side affects.

there is a good web site for babesei WWW.SECOND CHANCE.

6

Are  talking about the same  drug  , Berenil  here in Thailand  is used  mainly  for  treating  babesia  in  cattle  of which  they is a  lot  about , nothing  about  treating   humans , as I said  Imazol will treat tick fever,  and it can  prevent  an infection for up 45 days .good if you have brought in an animal into  a known tick fever  area  and it has  very  little    natural  resistance  to  ticks .   

Trypanosomiasis   according  to the   internet    is sleeping   sickness   , of  which  there  is none in Thailand .

The link  below with give you some insight  in to Berenil   and its uses .

www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/berenil-rtu/020_product_details.

 

 

[meatboy]

17 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

And that's the other problem.... Quick tests are problematic as they can register a 'positive' reading from a previous episode - so the vet has no idea whether its a new infection or immune system reaction to a previous infection.

 

Or something along those lines, I've been through this so often I forget the details .

yes DD we are hopeing the hepatoozon and the e-canis are from previous infections,they were only detected [2015] by a snap test.

this is what they done at khon kean uni.last week,goes back on the 12th.so i will update on the result.

i have always wondered why vets say,after a blood test he needs medication parasite infection present.

yet on the blood test result it says NO PARASITE FOUND.

i have a copy of one lab report [4/11/2015] which gives the result for BLOOD PARASITE   anaplasama platys,e-canis  NOT FOUND.

yet the vet said he needs,this,this and this.the wife told him if you dont leave you will get THIS.

[cooked]

After years of always finding a tick or two on our dogs every week, we have almost reduced them to zero. We bought some pet clippers and they get trimmed weekly (not all of them we have seven, but they get done regularly). No more ticks since January, touch wood.

Of course this only works on curly haired dogs, the ridgeback we have is also tick free now that the others are clean.

Looks like we have to buy a new blade already.

Just a remark.