Elite Visa or Investment Visa for chanote property purchase?

[totalrecall852]

Hi everyone, 

 

Looking for some options with regards long term Thai visas + buying chanote property. 

 

The wife and I are hoping to live in Koh Samui and ‘commute’ for work in Hong Kong (we work remotely, < 4 visits annually to HK).

 

Me: 45, British with HKID 

Wife: 50, Hong Kong citizen, British Nation Overseas passport

Lifestyle Aims: Buy US$800+ chanote villa out in the countryside, company / business owned. Not interested in condo, dense city development or apartments. 

Cash assets available: US$3M+

Thai Visa: Most likely myself applying, wife dependent. 

 

I see a few options open to us – with varying cost and complexity – hoping to find someone here who has been down a similar path:

 

1) Buy suitable 10M+ THB condo + apply for investment visa (… lease out condo and buy chanote villa; double property risk so not ideal but would satisfy visa requirements)

 

2) Put 10M+ THB into a Thai company that buys chanote villa + apply for investment visa? Have read a few forum posts that suggest this kind of property no longer counts towards investment visa?

 

3) Buy chanote villa + apply for 10 year Thai Elite Visa. The TEV is a business write-off but I’m confused about additional costs and hassle people might have had on top of just paying the upfront fee…  i.e: Are we both still required to carry out the 90 day / fee? Any other costs or hidden issues?

 

4) Buy chanote villa + do tourist runs (not ideal, I did this in HK years ago, travel is a pain in the ass).

 

5) Flip the scenario: Wife applies for retirement visa and sponsors me?! Will the age difference be a problem? We’ve been married for well over 10+ years.

 

Thanks!

 

Arnold

[FritsSikkink]

Chanote is a land title. You can't buy land as you are not Thai.

[ubonjoe]

Since your wife is 50 years old she could apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement. She would need to show 800k baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 totaling 800k baht.

After she gets her extension you could get one as her dependent.

[totalrecall852]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Chanote is a land title. You can't buy land as you are not Thai.

Yes I understand that. It would be a company purchase 49/51% split as per the norm.

 

Just meant to say that we'd *not* buy or live in condo style property which might otherwise fulfil the Investment Visa requirements. Sorry for the confusion. 

[totalrecall852]

OK noted many thanks - so I could be a dependent on my wife's retirement visa. The financial conditions are not an issue, any other potential things to be aware of going down this route? And the maximum length of extension for retirement visa is 1 year? 

 

The Elite Visa feels a bit pricey for what it offers, the Investment Visa seems prone to quite a few risks and conditions. 

[Gulfsailor]

6 minutes ago, totalrecall852 said:

Yes I understand that. It would be a company purchase 49/51% split as per the norm.

 

Just meant to say that we'd *not* buy or live in condo style property which might otherwise fulfil the Investment Visa requirements. Sorry for the confusion. 

It's getting difficult to purchase property on Samui via a company. The land office on Samui now wants to see that the Thai shareholders have the actual means. Lawyers are no longer willing to put their own nominees on the shareholder list for your company. So it's up to you to find the Thai partners you can trust and who can prove they have the means to be part owner of the company. 

Two foreigners recently enquired if my Thai gf would be willing to be a nominee shareholder in their company, at least during the transfer process at the Land office. Too many risks and pitfalls involved to consider it. 

 

[totalrecall852]

4 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

It's getting difficult to purchase property on Samui via a company. The land office on Samui now wants to see that the Thai shareholders have the actual means. Lawyers are no longer willing to put their own nominees on the shareholder list for your company. So it's up to you to find the Thai partners you can trust and who can prove they have the means to be part owner of the company. 

Two foreigners recently enquired if my Thai gf would be willing to be a nominee shareholder in their company, at least during the transfer process at the Land office. Too many risks and pitfalls involved to consider it. 

 

Oh that's disappointing – many thanks for the heads up – I had no idea that route was becoming more restrictive. Some of the properties we are looking at already have company ownership and (agents said) the purchase would in fact be a share transfer. But in the case of establishing a new company, thanks for your advice.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, totalrecall852 said:

OK noted many thanks - so I could be a dependent on my wife's retirement visa. The financial conditions are not an issue, any other potential things to be aware of going down this route? And the maximum length of extension for retirement visa is 1 year? 

 

The Elite Visa feels a bit pricey for what it offers, the Investment Visa seems prone to quite a few risks and conditions. 

The extension is for one year. You can apply for a new extension near the end of the existing one year after year.

If you want to travel you both would need to get either a single for multiple re-entry permits to keep the extension valid.

[totalrecall852]

OK understood, thanks for that: So the visa extension is one thing and re-entry permits are another.

Incidentally, in Hong Kong, all longer duration visas (work, marriage, investment etc.) are multi-entry by default.

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, totalrecall852 said:

OK understood, thanks for that: So the visa extension is one thing and re-entry permits are another.

Incidentally, in Hong Kong, all longer duration visas (work, marriage, investment etc.) are multi-entry by default.

They are separate applications for the extension and re-entry permit. If you don't want to travel you don't have to get a re-entry permit.

I think you find that the Thai consulate in Hong Kong like all other others give you an option for single or multiple entry visa if you qualify for a multiple entry visa for all types of visa other than the OA long stay visa.

If you wife is a citizen of Hong Kong she can apply for a OA visa that would allow unlimited one year entries for a year from the date of issue. Requirements can be found here. http://www.thai-consulate.org.hk/web/3015.php?s=4264

 

[totalrecall852]

Yes she is a citizen of HK (born here). Great thank you – will read up. 

[Robert24]

Just 2 points based on my experience:

1) the TE is a great option. No immigration hassle. 90 day reports you still have to do in case you stay longer than 90 days in Thailand. However in most cities (Not sure about Samui) TE will do the reporting for you - or an agent from them.

2) taking over a company who holds the property you are purchasing is an option. But not risk free. There is still a possibility that in future they do a review and consider your company a nominee. Especially if you have no other activities in this company. So you need to have a plan for such a scenario. I.e. you sell the shares to a Thai, sell the property etc.

Sent from my SM-J710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[phuketjock]

On 4/5/2017 at 1:53 PM, totalrecall852 said:

OK understood, thanks for that: So the visa extension is one thing and re-entry permits are another.

Incidentally, in Hong Kong, all longer duration visas (work, marriage, investment etc.) are multi-entry by default.

I,m sorry there is no such thing as a visa extension, it is an extension of stay for the purpose of retirement and

if the requirements can be met it can be re-newed every year indefinitely, by which time your original visa will

have long expired. 

I don't know about Hong Kong but in Thailand there is no such thing as a retirement or marriage VISA only

extensions of stay in the Kingdom for the purpose of marriage to a Thai national or for retirement, they are NOT

VISAS.

If you are intending to travel while based in Thailand I would strongly recommend that you get a multi re-entry

permit which can be purchased at almost any Thai immigration office or international airport. 

[totalrecall852]

@Robert24 and @phucketjock – thanks for the replies / info – a lot to consider.

Edited April 6, 2017 by totalrecall852

[wpcoe]

Not to be Negative Nancy, but if you go the retirement visa route for your wife with you as a dependent, be aware that if your wife pre-deceases you, you will be given seven days to leave the country as the basis for your dependent extension is no longer valid.  This could be a further stress when already dealing with the trauma of losing a loved one.

 

If finances are not be a problem for you, it might be better for you each get your own retirement extensions in five years when you turn 50.

[swissie]

OP is actually adressing 2 issues: The "visa situation" and the "investment situation". The "visa situation" has already been adressed here and would not require a massive investement as the OP is contemplating.

 

- However, if an "investment situation" is a major part of the plan, I allow myself to "give some food for thaught".
As the OP nor his wife is Thai-Citizen, the option "company ownership" seems to be the way to go. As it were, these days, reputable Thai Law Firms will not set up "company ownerships" anymore, knowing well, that those Legal "Constructs" stand on shaky grounds in front of a Thai Court, in case of any "dispute".

 

At any rate, if OP insists on combining visa/investment in Thailand, his investment in Thailand should not surpass 30% of his total assets.   Why?

- Thailand is a country, that does not provide LEGAL-CERTAINTY. Especially not, if neighter OP nor his wife have Thai Citicenship.  
Why not holiday in Koh Samui for 3 months and talk to Farang Property Owners on location and find out how they assess the situation.
Cheers.

[dotpoom]

On 05/04/2017 at 0:15 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Chanote is a land title. You can't buy land as you are not Thai.

And condo title.

[laochef]

In another thread the "Investment Visas" are discussed:  

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

elite visa is excellent and i dont see why anyone sees this as expensive at just 3000US$ per year. your wife can get a retirement visa. i just did 10 years in thailand and owned multiple properties. stay away from owning property would be my best advice to you. i tied up quite a bit of money in thailand in property over that time and made nothing. just rent, you will appreciate the flexibility when you decide to move. selling is a challenge. 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, dotpoom said:

And condo title.

No it isn't, show me that in the condominium act:

http://library.siam-legal.com/condominium-act-b-e-2522-1979-as-amended-2008/

[phuketjock]

40 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

No it isn't, show me that in the condominium act:

http://library.siam-legal.com/condominium-act-b-e-2522-1979-as-amended-2008/

I and my wife own several Condos and each one has a Chanote title deed???

 

[MadMuhummad]

On 05/04/2017 at 4:25 PM, totalrecall852 said:

OK noted many thanks - so I could be a dependent on my wife's retirement visa. The financial conditions are not an issue, any other potential things to be aware of going down this route? And the maximum length of extension for retirement visa is 1 year? 

 

The Elite Visa feels a bit pricey for what it offers, the Investment Visa seems prone to quite a few risks and conditions. 

Personally I'll be going with the ED visa leading into an Elite Visa option.

Although pricey the freedom it provides with exit/entries and the simplicity of it far offsets the cost IMO.

I'm 39 and permanently relocating to Thailand this year so ED for 2 years then 5 year Elite x2. 

Many will say it's not worth it but money is not an issue for myself either.

Edited April 7, 2017 by MadMuhummad

[Granit]

Hi everyone

Since the investment visa is discussed a bit above, i thought i would ask here instead of making a new thread.

If investing in a condo does it have to be a new unit with me as first owner. Or can I buy a second hand one?
I am looking into buying a second hand unit in BKK as I can't really find any new one that I like enough to fork over that kind of cash for.
The all seem to be way over priced for what they are. I have used the search function and found only one reference to needing to be a new condo, but no one seemed like that could confirm that that was the case. Hoping a second hand unit would be acceptable.

[Maestro]

On 4/7/2017 at 5:31 AM, FritsSikkink said:

No it isn't, show me that in the condominium act:

http://library.siam-legal.com/condominium-act-b-e-2522-1979-as-amended-2008/

 

It is not the purpose of the Condominium Act to deal with land title deeds. This purpose is covered by another law, an unofficial English translation of which calls it the ACT PROMULGATING THE LAND CODE B.E. 2497 (1954) and which is sometimes also referred to as the Land Code or the Land Act. 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Granit said:

Hi everyone

Since the investment visa is discussed a bit above, i thought i would ask here instead of making a new thread.

If investing in a condo does it have to be a new unit with me as first owner. Or can I buy a second hand one?
I am looking into buying a second hand unit in BKK as I can't really find any new one that I like enough to fork over that kind of cash for.
The all seem to be way over priced for what they are. I have used the search function and found only one reference to needing to be a new condo, but no one seemed like that could confirm that that was the case. Hoping a second hand unit would be acceptable.

Talk to a good immigration lawyer. This site is an excellent resource for simple visa questions, but what might qualify as an "approved investment" for an investment visa is way beyond the expertise of the posters here.

An unqualified opinion: a second-hand condominium purchase is unlikely to be acceptable.

Another unqualified opinion: investing in Bangkok real estate at current pricing is questionable. When a price on a second hand property seems reasonable, check that it is a unit from the foreigner allocation. Usually, units from the Thai allocation are much cheaper.

A piece of advice I feel more confident in giving: keep investment decisions and visa considerations separate. Putting many millions of baht into a questionable investment to make it easier to get a visa is not a good trade off.

[Thaidream]

I would never buy property in Thailand through a Company set up. Thai law is not 100% clear on the full legality of doing this and as a foreigner your understanding of the nuances will be limited. If you want to purchase a residence- buy a Condo or better yet rent. Governments in Thailand  can change often and laws and interpretations of laws can change just as fast. 

[JackThompson]

Given you can easily do the retirement + dependent option, I can not imagine any reason to use a more complex or expensive solution.  Each of you would be paying 1900 Baht + 3500 for a Multi-Re-Entry Permit for a year at a time on that scheme, and 1-day per year at the Immigration office. 

If that one day plus gathering paperwork is more trouble than you want to deal with, ~15K Baht to an agent will get the same thing (each, but maybe a package deal for slightly less) and they will sort it all for you. 

[PoorSucker]

Given you can easily do the retirement + dependent option, I can not imagine any reason to use a more complex or expensive solution.  Each of you would be paying 1900 Baht + 3500 for a Multi-Re-Entry Permit for a year at a time on that scheme, and 1-day per year at the Immigration office. 

If that one day plus gathering paperwork is more trouble than you want to deal with, ~15K Baht to an agent will get the same thing (each, but maybe a package deal for slightly less) and they will sort it all for you. 

No agents at Samui Immigration.

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

No agents at Samui Immigration.

Using an agent tends to offer some flexibility on where the application is submitted, based on some reports I have read - though I cannot say this is true from personal experience.