Was hit by car in a crosswalk. Enough is enough.

[smileydude]

Thanks rogeroc.  Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, maybe its not as cheap here anymore relatively speaking.  I've heard you could get better bang for your buck in Vietnam and the Phillipines but each to his own.  I still think in general services are relatively much cheaper here then in US/EU.  

The price of getting a haircut, dry cleaning, dental work, tips at 18-30% (US) eg, is astronomical.

 

[smileydude]

Thanks Thaidream for pointing out probably the two most important parts of what I was trying to say but didn't.

1. Thai's do think and act differently.  

2. Viewing everything from a Western perspective will result in a lot of frustration if we don't try to understand it.  

Its human nature to use one's values to judge.  Thing is values vary from country to country.   Kunfish also explained it well why thai people drive the way they do as you also did, they emulate it each other to go with the flow otherwise they'd stick out like a sore thumb.

I've become a bit of a hybrid in this sense.  I adjust everything (driving mannerisms etc) accordingly to where I am because I understand the differences in etiquette and accept them and in the process keep my sanity.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by smileydude

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Try this:  Get a shopping bag from Central and put a shoebox or similar in it.  You will be amazed by how much more respectful the pretentious Thai drivers are towards you.  As far as the deterioration of their friendliness and/or honesty...I really don't think the dust has settled from the GFC.  We didn't want to take the pain, so it became an extremely prolonged recovery.  Personal debt here is reaching critical mass.  Add that to a culture rife with loan sharking, illegal gambling, worker abuse, and a non-elected government and you get some pretty grouchy people.  And let's not forget a milk deprived average IQ of 90, (but no one fails, except their entire education system), and a massive number of little Napoleons just by nature of being a five feet six inch adult male.  The worst drugs are readily available, and much less harmful recreational drugs quite difficult, along with penalties unheard of in the modern world.  Oh, and their chinese ancestors are great models for how to act uncivilized.

[Thaidream]

While the prices in Thailand have gone up since I first came here decades ago- the prices in the US  for medical care, dental care are astronomical compared to Thailand. In addition, one can still travel around Thailand very cheaply and stay in hotels and purchase meals at a fraction of what it would cost in the US or Europe.

 

I really believe places like Chiang Mai; Phuket; Pattaya; Samui are suffering from foreigner fatigue. I prefer to live far away from these tourist areas to escape this syndrome. I didn't come to Thailand to try and find all the things I had in the US when I Lived there. I came to Thailand to enjoy those things that make Thailand unique and that includes the culture and the Thai way of life. I don't expect or want Thailand to be like New York; London or Tokyo. Everyone gets irritated sometimes about certain elements but the key is to accept those things you cannot change and adapt.

 

I have drive in Thailand for almost 50 years and the thing that has changed the most is that there are simply more cars than ever before and the road system cannot keep up with either the needed upgrades or the policing to enforce certain laws. In addition, cars/trucks have become more powerful so people are lulled into believing that speed is justified. I simply drive defensively; obey the speed laws and avoid getting angry at other who don't. When I am walking, I know traffic won't normally stop- so I adapt to it and don't expect that it will stop.  

[1FinickyOne]

7 hours ago, hobz said:

If you're not annoyed by traffic you must be blind or maybe you're as bad a driver as the Thais lol. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Did you even read my post? I never voiced an opinion on my feelings about traffic... and then you extrapolate out that I am a bad driver? And call me ignorant?

 

Nice guy... but name calling is a big thing for you... I noticed your other post where you repeatedly called Thai people brain dead... Wow. Sophisticated. And to think, you are a guest here - - it is easy to call people names when you are anonymous on a forum, but my guess is that you cannot speak with them in their own language for long enough to determine their intelligence. And so sure, call them names. 

[tandor]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The best post on this subject or living in Thailand has been posted by Smileydude. I completely agree with his sentiments and second his perspective. You cannot live and exist in Thailand by expecting everything to be like it is in your home country. In addition, you cannot view everything from a Western perspective.

Thailand has been around for thousands of years and is still a developing country. To live in Thailand, one must adapt and accept that Thai people view things differently and act differently.

The majority of Thai people have no quarrel with anyone especially foreigners. They drive the way they do because they have been taught that way and emulate other drivers. We can all become frustrated, but sounding off to Thais and flipping the middle finger are considered incredibly rude and out of place in Thailand.  Confrontation is to be avoided in all aspects of life.  I, for one, cannot understand why foreigners cannot grasp this point. 

If, s a foreigner living in Thailand, you are more irritated than not- you may want to consider a change of scenery. Thailand will not change for you- it will develop in the way Thais want it to develop in the same manner that your own country develops. Frankly, I find that Thai people are much friendlier than foreigners in most aspects of daily life.

 

..as cynical as i am..you can't just shower/shave/groom/dress in good gear and then decide you can just go out there and the world gives way to you and actually notices you and makes allowances...you just can't defy traffic and stride onto a crosswalk and expect them to come to a screeching halt..it ain't gonna happen..and quite a few foreigners have paid the ultimate price for their daring actions.

Edited April 6, 2017 by metisdead
Font reset to normal.

[bazza73]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

I have drive in Thailand for almost 50 years and the thing that has changed the most is that there are simply more cars than ever before and the road system cannot keep up with either the needed upgrades or the policing to enforce certain laws. In addition, cars/trucks have become more powerful so people are lulled into believing that speed is justified. I simply drive defensively; obey the speed laws and avoid getting angry at other who don't. When I am walking, I know traffic won't normally stop- so I adapt to it and don't expect that it will stop.  

While I completely agree with your post w.r.to driving defensively, I don't think cars and trucks have become more powerful. If anything, engine sizes and power outputs are decreasing. They market lower spec cars here than those that are exported.

IMHO the main problem with Thai drivers is they don't adjust to changing road conditions. After a good rain at Doi Saket, the number of pickups and SUV's that have taken a trip into the jungle increases exponentially.

[hobz]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Did you even read my post? I never voiced an opinion on my feelings about traffic... and then you extrapolate out that I am a bad driver? And call me ignorant?

 

Nice guy... but name calling is a big thing for you... I noticed your other post where you repeatedly called Thai people brain dead... Wow. Sophisticated. And to think, you are a guest here - - it is easy to call people names when you are anonymous on a forum, but my guess is that you cannot speak with them in their own language for long enough to determine their intelligence. And so sure, call them names. 

You stated that the only times u got annoyed was from foreigners. That means u never got annoyed in traffic.

And if you never got anoyed in traffic, then u must have been blind, ignorant or been staying indoors your entire stay. Doesn't take sophisticated logic or reasoning to come to that conclusion.

Anyone with a brain that has spent more than a week in thailand notice that they drive like braindead people.

Not all of them, but some 5-20% I guess.

How did you not gey annoyed by traffic? Please enlighten me. Or are you going to avoid the point again?

[SiSePuede419]

Same rules in Mexico...

 

If you get hit by a car, it's your own fault.  You should be more careful.

 

If you trip on some trip hazard in your path, it's your own fault.  You should be more careful.

 

Personal Responsibility. ?

[bazza73]

7 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

 

1. The Toyota Fortuner is a very popular SUV in Thailand. It is big and can carry a lot of people. Both are very important things here in Thailand. However, I have found Fortuner drivers to be the biggest <deleted> on the road. I am convinced that to be eligible to buy one of the beasts you have to either fail your driving test, get a lobotomy, or run someone down during the test drive. It’s kind of like a gang initiation thing. To be honest, I think you have to do all three.

 

I must agree. Definitely the most inconsiderate species in Thai traffic. I have lost count of the number of times they fly up on an inside or outside lane, then force their way back into the line of vehicles.

One day, I may lose patience and retaliate with my 1989 Merc. We'll see who comes off worst - a hand-built vehicle of serious steel, or a behemoth of tinfoil and plastic. Place your bets on the Merc.

[Happy Grumpy]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:29 PM, THAlx said:

After living for over one and a half years here in CM, I was really attracted to its natural beauty, especially the mountains.

 

I knew that TH is far from being perfect, and I tried my best to exercise patience and peaceful resilience. Not once have had I complained. Tried different approach, appearance, attitude.

 

But this indeed seems to be "the last straw that broke the camel's back".

 

I am compiling the (+) and (-) of my stay here, not sure anybody would be interested in these, but the overall balance has become deeply negative, objectively.

 

Am I perceived as a "white trash" tourist? The level of xenophobia is "just" over the scale?

 

 

Sounds like Thailand would be much better if it wasn't for the Thais.

 

 

A decent period of colonization  would really have helped them develop properly, I'll grant you that. 

[dingdongrb]

4 hours ago, smileydude said:

though I have witnessed more honking and hand gesturing in NY in 1 hr then I have seen in a year of driving in Thailand).  

 

If someone sticks a middle finger at you in the US you just stick one back and both go their own ways.  You do it in Thailand and the guy with the gun wins.

 

 

I agree with the lack of honking heard in Thailand as during my earlier trips while in BKK the only honking that was noticeable was when it was raining out. And then I think the honking was merely being done to let others know you were there rather than to annoy.

 

However road rage in the USA used to be notorious in the USA if I recall correctly. But I cannot say these days as it's been 5-6 years since I last drove there. I do think that the officials in the USA had started to come down hard on road rage drivers and perhaps have taken some action thus the reason for reduction lately. That and the use of mobile phones where now there are folks calling into authorities when road rage is first noticed. I recall reading on the news almost daily about fist fights, shootings, stabbings, and such due to road rage, but as I said I think that has been a thing of the past. (fingers crossed)

 

Here in CM I always try to be a polite driver although I do drive very offensively. I drive to get away from all the other drivers. However I do not block intersections like many Thai drivers and when I drive in front of places like Makro and Big C I always stop and allow those folks walking and pushing carts to pass across the area. It's funny though because when I do that they usually give me a look of 'shock' as they cannot believe I stopped to let them go or else they are not even looking as they don't expect anyone to be stopping for them.

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, hobz said:

You stated that the only times u got annoyed was from foreigners. That means u never got annoyed in traffic.

And if you never got anoyed in traffic, then u must have been blind, ignorant or been staying indoors your entire stay. Doesn't take sophisticated logic or reasoning to come to that conclusion.

Anyone with a brain that has spent more than a week in thailand notice that they drive like braindead people.

Not all of them, but some 5-20% I guess.

How did you not gey annoyed by traffic? Please enlighten me. Or are you going to avoid the point again?

You sound much more ignorant than Mr. Kenk.  And much more braindead. 

[1FinickyOne]

28 minutes ago, hobz said:

You stated that the only times u got annoyed was from foreigners. That means u never got annoyed in traffic.

And if you never got anoyed in traffic, then u must have been blind, ignorant or been staying indoors your entire stay. Doesn't take sophisticated logic or reasoning to come to that conclusion.

Anyone with a brain that has spent more than a week in thailand notice that they drive like braindead people.

Not all of them, but some 5-20% I guess.

How did you not gey annoyed by traffic? Please enlighten me. Or are you going to avoid the point again?

You gotta let it go - - sure, we all know that the roads can be aggravating here - - and lots of death too - this is a really old topic but maybe you have been here a very short time. If I were to get annoyed by the way people drive, not just here, but anywhere, I would be spending way too much time annoyed. The 3x I got annoyed with farang they were total strangers who mouthed off in my face for absolutely no discernible reason... I let that go too and I don't call all farang brain dead. That is a pretty nasty insult to all Thai people... 

[smotherb]

On 4/5/2017 at 4:59 PM, Trujillo said:

So you were jaywalking? Is that what I understand? 

And you, "...smashed the bonnet with my left hand to reduce my own speed towards the vehicle." So that means the car didn't actually contact your body? 

 

If this one minor incident makes you question your being in Chiang Mai, or Thailand, then maybe SE Asia isn't really your cup of tea. 

I agree, but even more so; I question his logic that somehow the manner of his attire added pertinence to the situation.

[Happy Grumpy]

1000 generations manning buffalo and carts in rice paddies.

 

1 generation able to afford a Honda Civic on finance and actually use 'a road'

 

 

What else to be expected of them? 

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.   Please keep it civil.  

[rogerluli]

On 4/5/2017 at 8:53 AM, Berkshire said:

Years ago--back in the USA--I had an employee working for me who got hit by a car near our office building.  Not seriously hurt, but had to spend some time in the hospital.  Apparently, he was in a well-marked crosswalk when he got hit.  He walked in front of a car.  So we asked him "Why did you walk in front of a moving vehicle?"  His answer was "Because I had the right-of-way."  We all agreed that this was the stupidest answer ever.

I recall old Burma Shave road signs that went something like this...He was right...All right...As he drove along...But he's just as dead...As if he'd been wrong...Burma Shave...

[Chiengmaijoe]

I've never had a problem crossing the road here. Whether you're waiting at a crossing or not, no-one will stop if you just stand there. I simply wait for a big enough gap that allows them to slow down at a reasonablre rate, hold my hand up to let them know I'm going and proceed with caution. Easy. Of course you always need to keep an eye on motorbikes but other than that, no problems here.

 

As regards to your question "maybe it's just me", the answer is no , it's not just you. Plenty of people here have problems adjusting, by not trying to understand why people are different. Too many people assume that Thais act differently because they are stupid, ignorant, rude or whatever negative trait they can dream up, and too few take the time to try to understand why they act/think differently. Those people are doomed to a life of misery outside of their own culture so my guess is that you are right to give up after just 1 1/2 years. I don't mind people who realise that they don't like it here and move on, it's the people that don't like it here but stay that are the problem.

 

I'm not sure where the 'Am I perceived as a "white trash" tourist?' comes from as it isn't a thought that ever came into my head, but it does give me the impression that you're not really happy here. If you really think that  and that Thailand  has become   "too obnoxious, unwelcoming, life threatening mess" then I don't even know why you are asking for advice, but nonetheless I'll state the obvious , you need to move on.  Further advice .... forget about Cambodia, Laos or wherever because they are different too.

 

Smileydude has my backing too. Not that he needs it!

[Chiengmaijoe]

On 4/5/2017 at 3:02 PM, idman said:

Well an incident like that would give one pause to access his continued living here in C.M. You are very lucky to have escaped without serious injury. For me




everyday there seems to be situations envolving a car, motorbike, red bus, van or pedestrians that gets my blood boiling. I try to take it in stride and after a few or many depending on the offense choice expletives I just carry on. Thais are without a doubt right up there in the cluelss dimwits population, from their me first to this b.s. face thing we as Farangs appear to be nothing more than a nuisance. I love here in C.M. and so I have made allowances for Thais behaving badly on a daily basis. I have to accept the fact that I will always" come out second best, that given any opportuinty Thais will <deleted> me over while giving me that phoney Thai smile, that no matter how hard I try to stay calm there are always going to be times when I just want to say "<deleted> this <deleted>, take your <deleted> Country and shove it where the sun doesn't shine." You have a decision to make, you have to weight all the pros and cons of continued living here. But remember, is the next place if it is here in Thailand going to be any different? Are you really going to find paradise? Good luck in your decision whatever it may be.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Just curious. What's keeping you here? You don't like the Thais and you don't think they like you but...... you love here in C.M!

And let's not forget the 4 expletives that were deleted in your telling us why you hate it here!!!  Unless you can convince me otherwise, I'm filing you under 'schizophrenic tendencies'. And more for your safety than others, I'll be keeping you under observation.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chiengmaijoe

[orang37]

While the urge to hit cars with self, or objects, is like totally understandable here in Amazing T, given the role of cars as the Kingdom's primary method of birth control, and homicide and suicide by proxy ... and, as economic engines of growth that make health care more affordable by culling the weak, and disabled ... not to mention providing exceptional endowment$ and training opportunities for orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, hospitals, and other medical staff ...

 

Yet, sadly, the average .grudge match between car and ambulatory person here is almost always won by the vehicle, and the collateral damage as the ambulant goes berserk likely to be more expensive to the person than to the car.

 

Seems like a Catch-22, doesn't it ?  And, experience shows that acrobatic evasive maneuvers, staying in crosswalks, crossing on green, wearing neon-orange jump-suits, etc., does not provide protection ... of course. we all know that the word in Thai for sidewalk actually means "target practice."

 

 At this time I can offer no solution other than paranoia and staying home. When you do venture forth, just imagine you are in a video game where the cars are the players, and score points by killing, or maiming, you.

 

You may have noticed I carefully avoided using the word "driver" in this little bagatelle; that does reflect a hypothesis that the human bodies in the driver's seat are, essentially, not present, mentally.

 

cheers, ~o:37;

 

 

 

 

[ToS2014]

Thailand has crosswalks?  Lived here for 5+ years and never heard, or better, witnessed such.  They are a good concept where traffic rules are adhered to.

[chrissables]

On 4/5/2017 at 8:34 PM, CMKiwi said:

Funniest one I heard of was from a friend who just returned from a trip to Vietnam.

 

The trick there was not to make eye contact with the drivers and just walk across the road in a blind fashion.

 

Apparently the drivers MUST give way. But it's a different ball game if you do make eye contact.

 

My friend said it was perhaps one of the scariest things to do and he had to fight all his self preservation thoughts to do so. But he said it is the normal way of life for the locals.

 

Weird or what!

I found you had to make eye contact, then walk in a slow deliberate way so they could judge the best way around you :)

[idman]

I am replying to the earsling who questioned why I stay here in Chiang Mai. The answer is an easy one so that even he can understand. The weather, the food, the peace and quiet, the cost of living, the variety of activities, the ability to get away rather easily. Oh, wait for it. I can get boinked 24/7/365 by some of the most beautiful women in the world at a price that still boggles my mind. Has my answer satisfied your ignorance about MY own reasons for staying here despite the few things that bother me? Gosh, for my peace of mind I hope so.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Asparutta]

This thread has me very very worried. I booked a trip to Thailand for 3 months, together with my wife and son. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 

 

When I researched the traffic situation , I am highly concerned to a point where I might not go but tickets cost me a lot!

 

We did not plan to drive, so we would be pedestrians.... I don't know whether to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong, but we want to do interesting things, not be stuck in one place...... it seems so unsafe......is this how it is in all roads? Or if we avoid main roads it will be ok?

 

Maybe if we stay in Hang Dong it's different? But are there things to do?

[EricTh]

Just now, Asparutta said:

. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 

 

 

 

Many people has the wrong misconception that Chiang Mai has a rural type of living where we can see many cyclists cycling slowly or pedestrian walking slowly. 

 

Well, wake up! Chiang Mai is not the slow city anymore that it was 20 years ago. The traffic situation is bad especially around the city center.

 

There are so many modern developments going on in Chiang Mai and many Chinese tourists and investors are coming to stay.

 

If you want a place to relax, Chiang Rai would be a better slower city but not Chiang Mai.

 

Watch the survival guide below before you come.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by EricTh

[Shoeless Joe]

11 minutes ago, Asparutta said:

This thread has me very very worried. I booked a trip to Thailand for 3 months, together with my wife and son. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 

 

When I researched the traffic situation , I am highly concerned to a point where I might not go but tickets cost me a lot!

 

We did not plan to drive, so we would be pedestrians.... I don't know whether to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong, but we want to do interesting things, not be stuck in one place...... it seems so unsafe......is this how it is in all roads? Or if we avoid main roads it will be ok?

 

Maybe if we stay in Hang Dong it's different? But are there things to do?

What you are seeing here are over-hyped hysterical reactions to a post by someone who seems to believe that the (Chiang Mai) world should revolve around him.

 

So please don't be put off by some of the alarmist responses, especially those that denigrate Thais and their way of life (including their driving habits). Chiang Mai is a lovely city with plenty of things to do and the majority of Thais are nice, happy-go-lucky people. If as a pedestrian, you exercise the same level of discretion and care  (as you would in your own country) then you will come to no harm whatsoever.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[Asparutta]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

 

Many people has the wrong misconception that Chiang Mai is a rural type of living where I can see many cyclists cycling slowly or pedestrian walking slowly. 

 

Well, wake up!

Thank you for your input! Well, thing is, we dont want somewhere totally rural, we want to go out, eat in cafes, go to pools, join some sport clubs, play table tennis and chess, ------ we want things to do, somewhere where English is more or less spoken.......however we do not want an extremely busy city....... the worst thing is, we normally do NOT drive, we normally walk around places which are within 20 mins walking distance and were planning to take Tuk Tuk or something for longer distances..... I am worried we may be wrong on both accounts due to safety, as it doesnt even seem to be safe inside a Tuk Tuk...... I'd be coming with my 9 year old son, and his safety is my absolute priority, so if he is not going to be safe, I do not mind the 2000 Euros I spent on the tickets, I would cancel...... Chiang Mai has the reputation of being a very beautiful place and I was hoping to give my son a wonderful childhood memory......if it isn't so, please do let me know and I will cancel the trip.....  I live in Malta (similar to south Italy) where traffic is very unruly (by EU standards), there are deaths each month....and rules are really not taken into consideration.... .however, if one sticks to the sidewalk, and crosses when lights are red (and runs not walks), it is OK. In Mongolia I lived for 1 year.... corssing the road is very risky...but one rarely has to cross there and there is plenty of walking space.  Are there places in Chiang Mai where we can safely go for walks? Where you can visit places on foot? Go to cafe's and attractions?

 

[Asparutta]

5 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

What you are seeing here are over-hyped hysterical reactions to a post by someone who seems to believe that the (Chiang Mai) world should revolve around him.

 

So please don't be put off by some of the alarmist responses, especially those that denigrate Thais and their way of life (including their driving habits). Chiang Mai is a lovely city with plenty of things to do and the majority of Thais are nice, happy-go-lucky people. If as a pedestrian, you exercise the same level of discretion and care  (as you would in your own country) then you will come to no harm whatsoever.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Thank you so much Joe! your reply has made me feel a lot better. I come from Malta which is arguably home to Western Europe's worst drivers....U-turns, parking wrongly, overtaking, even driving wrong way are more or less everyday sights, and Maltese also have this mentality of bending rules and moving by judgement rather than formal rules at times.... there is also overspeeding here..... However, I am very worried to put my son in harm's way, especially when seeing those videos.....  How could I live comfortably there , without driving? Is it best to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong and is there a good connection between them for those who don't drive?  Are there places to just go for walks within the city or not really? I mean say we want to go to a pool located at some hotel, on foot, or want to explore the area to seek out new nice cafe's etc...... or find a sport club....... would we need to keep taking a cab everywhere?

[Keesters]

On 4/5/2017 at 3:14 PM, FolkGuitar said:

Glad that you weren't hurt (physically, anyway) by this event.

I do have a question, though.  Crossing the road by Chiang Puak Gate can be difficult, but that's why they installed a traffic light with a pedestrian crossing button to control it.

Why didn't you just press the button and wait for the green light?

 

Actually, there are three button-controlled lights along that stretch of road, one right at the Gate turn-off, and one 100 meter on either side of it.

 

Pattaya spent a lot of money putting those pedestrian controlled crossings along beach road and other major roads. They were ignored by most drivers who just continued on as if there was no red light. In the end the city turned them off.