Good news for diabetics!

[Dario]

About 11 years ago I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2. Roughly one month after I received medicine from the hospital I realized that my eyesight became blurry, especially when I was driving. I lived in Bangkok at that time and I remember very well that I realized that I couldn't read the billboards along the expressways anymore. I was prescribed Metformin and glipizide. From that moment on I stopped taking glipizide. Then my eyesight returned to normal. Over the years I occasionally checked my glucose levels and until about 2009 they were always around 130/140. After 2009 they increased. Sometimes readings were 180 or even over 200. I realized that managing my condition became difficult.

Around Jan/Feb this year I got in contact with a Swiss friend of mine who has type 1 diabetes and I asked him about his diabetes. He said that he had no difficulties, had his diabetes fully under control. I asked him what medicine he takes and he said insulin shots  with a new drug called Forxiga which his doctor in Chiang Mai describes him.

 

I did some research on the net and found out that Forxiga is a prescription drug and is not known in hospitals in Thailand (except that CM hospital). I also read that it has many side effects, our moderator Sheryl pointed that out as well. On a thread I opened on TV I read about a member in BKK who noted that he uses a similar drug called Tradjenta or in Thailand labelled Trajenta 5 mg. I sent him a PM and asked him if he had encountered any side effects and he answered: none. I did research about Trajenta and I came to the conclusion that Trajenta is much less dangerous (if at all) for ones health than Forxiga. Through that person from Thaivisa forum I got to know the pharmacy where he regularly buys Trajenta. I contacted them and they were willing to send me a few packages via EMS. I must add that Trajenta is also a prescription drug and like Forxiga little known by hospitals and pharmacies in Thailand.

 

At the end of February I had to go to the hospital due to a sugar spike. Reading said: HI. Hi is beyond 600!. I was there for 2 days and when I left readings were around 190/200. Still high. About 2 days later I got my first box of 30 tablets of Trajenta and the results were (and still are) simply said: fantastic!. 110, 90, 94.

 

I must add an important thing: my doctor prescribed me metformin, glipizide 5 mg in the mornings and evenings and Asa (aspirin) 81 mg one tablet in the morning. I took the glipizide and my eyesight became blurry again. Almost immediately after I stopped taking glipizide my glucose readings went back up 132, 146, 159, once even 262! Then I took back my Glipizide and my levels dropped back into the normal. Eyesight is a bit blurred but manageable.

 

Last week for the first time I had readings of 72 and 76. Yesterday I went with my daughter to town, we passed at Swensen's and she said she craved for some ice-cream. I couldn't resist either and so we both indulged in ice-cream. I thought: what the heck and had one of their current mango specials. I even helped my little daughter to finish her strawberry ice-cream. That was around 13:30. Of course, I expected my Monday morning reading to be quite high. This morning I woke up early and couldn't fall asleep anymore. I got up and checked my sugar level. I couldn't believe my eyes: 68, yes only sixty-eight! Well, that's below the normal 70-110 and needs attention. I add a picture as proof. Sorry for the long, detailed post, but I'm sure, most readers will gladly forgive me, especially the diabetics. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dario

[simoh1490]

Consider buying a new meter, yours may faulty!

[Dario]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Consider buying a new meter, yours may faulty!

No problem from that side, I checked that already, I have two different meters, different brands.

[jadee]

24 minutes ago, Dario said:

No problem from that side, I checked that already, I have two different meters, different brands.

Consider testing at a hospital - if they could save hundreds of thousands of baht by purchasing cheap home-grade meters instead of hospital-grade ones, they probably would. Plus, there are many possible test interferences. Even the gold-standard A1C test is inaccurate in one in three people. 

[Dario]

20 minutes ago, jadee said:

Consider testing at a hospital - if they could save hundreds of thousands of baht by purchasing cheap home-grade meters instead of hospital-grade ones, they probably would. Plus, there are many possible test interferences. Even the gold-standard A1C test is inaccurate in one in three people. 

Your post doesn't make sense to me. The (government) hospital I usually go to use those cheap home-grade meters. Another one I have been to use the same. When I bought this Optima meter from Pharmahof, I was told by their sales manager that the vast majority of their customers are not individuals but the hospitals in Thailand.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dario

[jadee]

Sorry, I stand corrected. If the readings are good then that is great news. I found your post highly informative and hope it helps other diabetics in Thailand. 

[tonray]

56 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Consider buying a new meter, yours may faulty!

or perhaps consider staying out of Swensons

[Dario]

57 minutes ago, jadee said:

Sorry, I stand corrected. If the readings are good then that is great news. I found your post highly informative and hope it helps other diabetics in Thailand. 

Anyway, the complete truth will come at my next doctor's appointment on May 12 when the reading of the a1c comes out. On March 1 it was a staggering 13+%!

 

Now I'll go and make some super tasty cinnamon rolls ... no worries about sugar anymore.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dario

[sinbin]

There was an article published the UK papers last week that claimed the easiest way to cure Type 2 was exercise and diet.

 

 

Quote

 

Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me

After receiving a shock diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, I followed an extremely low-calorie eating plan and saw my blood sugar levels rapidly return to normal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/12/type-2-diabetes-diet-cure

[robblok]

That is no cure, its just keeping it in check.. a cure would mean that after stopping exercise and a good diet that it would not come back.

 

It has long been known that exercise and diet can control type 2. Most people just don't do it because popping a pill is easier.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

How old are you? Your hands look youngish.

[Dario]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

That is no cure, its just keeping it in check.. a cure would mean that after stopping exercise and a good diet that it would not come back.

 

It has long been known that exercise and diet can control type 2. Most people just don't do it because popping a pill is easier.

Thank you for the compliment, I'm 71 years and 2 months  ...  young. 854 months or about 26'000 days. Passed just like that. Well, I feel younger again, knowing that I can really manage my diabetes now.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dario
wrong quote

[Dario]

42 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

How old are you? Your hands look youngish.

Sorry, clicked the wrong quote: thank you for the compliment, I'm 71 years and 2 months  ...  young. 854 months or about 26'000 days. Passed just like that. Well, I feel younger again, knowing that I can really manage my diabetes now.

[Oxx]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

That is no cure, its just keeping it in check.. a cure would mean that after stopping exercise and a good diet that it would not come back.

 

That's a logical nonsense.  It's like saying there's no cure for typhoid - if you drink contaminated water it will come back.

 

The fact is that an extremely low calorie diet will in many cases remove the excess fat from the pancreas - a cure.

[lopburi3]

4 hours ago, Dario said:

Trajenta 5 mg

It seems to be known at Bangkok Hospital as wife has been on it since starting treatment there in July last year.  Rather expensive medication from hospital at 86 baht each.  

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

That's a logical nonsense.  It's like saying there's no cure for typhoid - if you drink contaminated water it will come back.

 

The fact is that an extremely low calorie diet will in many cases remove the excess fat from the pancreas - a cure.

A poor analogy! Typhoid is bacterial which means it can be caught repeatedly. Diabetes is a condition marked by the presence of insulin bearing cells and/or insulin resistance - a person can't catch diabetes they develop it and it is not contagious to others. The removal of fat around the pancreas can help improve insulin resistance, as can altered diet, but those things can't cure the condition permanently and return them to a previous state, once insulin bearing cells have been destroyed.

[muskoka]

For those with diabetes you may want to look into xylitol - Doug

 

Xylitol

 

Quote

 

Clinical tests have shown that consumption of xylitol-sweetened foods between meals significantly cuts formation of new caries, even in those who already practice good oral hygiene. It also inhibits the growth of S. mutans - the primary bacterium associated with dental caries.

Helpful for diabetics

Quote

...Xylitol may be useful as an alternative to sugar for people with diabetes as it does not raise blood glucose or insulin levels, and has a reduced caloric value (2.4 kcal/g compared to 4.0 for sucrose), which is consistent with the objective of weight control.

 

...The Scientific Committee for Food of the European Union (EU) states that xylitol is safe and 'acceptable' for use in foods for special dietary uses, while the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) - a prestigious scientific advisory body to the World Health Organization and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations - has allocated an Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) of' not specified' for xylitol, the safest category in which JECFA can place a food additive.

 

 

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/sweeteners/xylitol.html

 

more here  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol

 

[Sheryl]

Trajenta nor Forxiga are well known  to Thai endocrinologists unless they are for some reason completely out of date (in which case you should change doctors anyhow).

 

Neither should be self-prescribed.  Anyone who is having trouble managing their type 2 diabetes with the usual first line medications (metformin etc) and diet/exercise needs close medical supervision.

 

These new drugs expand the range of options for management of type 2 diabetes but the best options remain (1)  weight loss/low glycemic diet/exercise  and (2) (if #2 alone insufficient or the patient unwilling) metformin.

 

The majority of patients will respond to this. Diet and exercise are not only side-effect free but improve health all round. Metformin is a tried and true drug that has been in use for a very long time and thus its adverse effects are very well known. It is also quite inexpensive.

 

Only if these fail (or metformin is for some reason contraindicated) would use of other drugs be indicated and this needs to be carefully monitored by a specialist. (In Western countries most GPs would be  skilled and up to date in management of diabetes but in Thailand, where general practice tends to be weak,  one is usually better off with an endocrinologist).

 

It is not a good idea to use the newer/stronger medications as a means of allowing dietary excesses.  That will abuse your body in several ways - exposure to potential side effects of potent medications, and the adverse effects of unhealthy diet (which are not limited to blood sugar issues).

 

 

 

 

 

[Dario]

Thank you for your input, Sheryl.

I talked to my doctor about Trajenta and I said, I would like to try it out. Go ahead, he said, unfortunately, we don't have it at our hospital pharmacy. After 2 weeks taking the tablets I told him I encountered no side-effects, so he said: OK, go ahead then. So, I got his consent and he would have prescribed them if I needed a prescription. Looks OK to me. Diet and exercise are 2 things a very small minority like to adhere to, including me. Besides, I read at several occasions, that much exercise is not good at all. Whom to believe? Everyday I get health advice from various sources (from email subscriptions) and if you read them all, there's not much you can eat or drink or do.

 

On the other side Sheryl, I think, glipicide is as strong as Trajenta or Forxiga, I have made the test, read again my post about glipizide, please. it's only 15 Baht for 10 tablets, what can they be worth healthwise against Forxiga at 1695 Baht for 30 tabs and Trajenta at 1'600 Baht for 30 tablets?

 

When my wife had to undergo surgery for endometriosis about 28 years ago at Rama Hospital BKK, her doctor asked her at the time she was to be released if she wanted to take the normal (cheap) medication or if she was able to pay for expensive medication (at that time about 120 Baht per tablet). Medication had to be taken for several months. We chose for the latter and I remember that I went to get supply at a good discount straight from Zuellig as I knew someone at the company. I do agree that Forxiga has potential health risks, that's why I wouldn't take them, but Trajentja, in my humble opinion, seems to be OK, at least for me. 

[Sheryl]

I am not suggesting Trajenta isn't appropriate in your case. From what you say, you did not get adequate control with metformin. Just trying to explain that it is not something every diabetic should automatically take,  it is not a first line treatment.

[i claudius]

Lost a stone,now my levels are normal,no more drugs

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[robblok]

7 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

That's a logical nonsense.  It's like saying there's no cure for typhoid - if you drink contaminated water it will come back.

 

The fact is that an extremely low calorie diet will in many cases remove the excess fat from the pancreas - a cure.

Others have already replied.. its not non sense at all.. a cure would mean that the person who has type 2 would be able to stop diet and exercise and could eat carbs as much as a normal person again and still have no problems. That is not the case. 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Others have already replied.. its not non sense at all.. a cure would mean that the person who has type 2 would be able to stop diet and exercise and could eat carbs as much as a normal person again and still have no problems. That is not the case. 

 

This is completely correct.

 

There are some instances where people thought to have had diabetes followed a strict diet, and then returned to a normal state. This much is true, yet it is a narrow cohort.  But ordinarily no dietary or medicinal cure is possible.

 

Diets, as we know, sadly have a high failure rate.  Drugs do provide a pragmatic solution: surely in the interests of the patient it is better they are used unless there are compelling side effects.

 

A case by case basis would be best:  an exercise enjoying forty something, with relative glucose intolerance, will benefit from one approach, whereas someone older, with a more profound condition, and a hatred for exercise will surely do better on drugs.

Edited April 9, 2017 by mommysboy

[robblok]

Just now, mommysboy said:

 

This is completely correct.

 

There are some instances where people thought to have had diabetes followed a strict diet, and then returned to a normal state. This much is true.  But ordinarily no dietary or medicinal cure is possible.

 

Diets, as we know, sadly have a high failure rate.  Drugs do provide a pragmatic solution: surely in the interests of the patient it is better they are used unless there are compelling side effects.

Oh for sure drugs are good to use.. I don't condemn anyone not doing exercise and diet.. its hard.. it can be boring too. Pils are easier and if the side effects are not bad.. why not. 

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Others have already replied.. its not non sense at all.. a cure would mean that the person who has type 2 would be able to stop diet and exercise and could eat carbs as much as a normal person again and still have no problems. That is not the case. 

 

So if you're cured of typhoid you can drink as much contaminated water as you want and never get the condition again?

 

One can remain susceptible to type 2 diabetes, but still be cured.

 

Your logic is, at best, suspect.

[robblok]

Just now, Oxx said:

 

So if you're cured of typhoid you can drink as much contaminated water as you want and never get the condition again?

 

One can remain susceptible to type 2 diabetes, but still be cured.

 

Your logic is, at best, suspect.

Your making a mistake in your logic.

 

In general we all have the same chance of getting it by drinking contaminated water. So it doe snot matter if you had it before or not

 

For the tolerance of carbs and diabetic its different.. once you had it you have no longer the same tolerance you once had.

 

I hope it makes it clear for you.

 

i am talking about eating carbs in amounts that normal people do.. not restricting yourself to a low carb diet anymore. That is not possible it will return but people who never had it have no problems with these same amounts.. why.,. because damage is done that cant be reversed.

 

[mommysboy]

22 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

So if you're cured of typhoid you can drink as much contaminated water as you want and never get the condition again?

 

One can remain susceptible to type 2 diabetes, but still be cured.

 

Your logic is, at best, suspect.

 

Diabetes is not caused by an invading pathogen, but rather is initiated by a dwindling capacity to handle glucose, caused by insulin resistance.  It is a systemic illness as opposed to invasive.

 

High levels of glucose in the body lead to problems in a number of major organs.  This we commonly call diabetes.

 

Diet and exercise, as well as medicine, can ensure glucose levels are kept in check, but this is not a cure, because the patient still remains glucose intolerant.

 

And of course, diseased organs can be treated and cured.

 

But as previously pointed out there is no cure, because without intervention the patient's glucose levels would simply rise again.

 

[drtreelove]

Well the pharmaceutical companies love you and all others who are locked into the fallacy of 'modern' medicine and their profit motives.

For those who have not yet destroyed their health with poor dietary habits, alcohol abuse and lack of exercise, there is a better way in preventive health practices and traditional medicine.

At 70 I am fortunate to have relatively good health, still work hard physically, and haven't had a full blown cold or flu in over 30 years.

Working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech in the 70's  I saw first hand the failure of western medicine in managing chronic illness. So I took up study of natural health practices, Traditional Chinese Medicine, including Chinese dietary medicine. I believe it has served me well to know about yin-yang principles, 5 elements, 5 tastes, thermal properties of foods, healthy cooking and eating practices, TCM herbal medicine, Ayurvedic and Thai traditional medical systems, kungfu, chi gong practices.

Or dump your money into making MDs and pharmaceutical execs some of the richest people in our societies.

Edited April 9, 2017 by drtreelove

[davhend25]

On 4/9/2017 at 11:57 AM, lopburi3 said:

It seems to be known at Bangkok Hospital as wife has been on it since starting treatment there in July last year.  Rather expensive medication from hospital at 86 baht each.  

My Endo wanted to put me on it 3 years ago when my creatine spiked to 1.6 while taking metformin. But Tradjenta would have cost me over $400 USD (14K baht) per month even with tier 1 health insurance in the U.S. Glad to hear that it is relatively inexpensive here in Thailand.    

[Oxx]

6 minutes ago, davhend25 said:

Glad to hear that it [Trajenta] is relatively inexpensive here in Thailand.    

 

It very much is relatively.  At 50 baht/tablet it is expensive.  Someone on a low wage would struggle to afford it.

 

The good news is that it appears to come off patent in 2019, so the cost (fingers crossed) should plummet after that as generic versions become available.