Being denied entry with marriage visa

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, jimster said:

Is that also possible on a non-B multi-entry? Let's say your visa expires on July 31, but you come back into the country on July 30. Your permission to stay is thus 90 days later, so around October 27 (because they count the day of entry as day 1, not day 0 as some countries like China do). You then receive permission to stay another 60 days on top of that so that means you can stay until roughly December 25 or 150 days after entry.

 

When are you eligible to apply for the 60 day extension? Within a certain number of days before the original 90 day permission to stay is up? Also, if you needed to leave the country, the re-entry permit would only be valid until the end of the first 90 day period, meaning that in order to leave during the 60 day extension, you'd need to get a new re-entry permit covering that period, right?

 

Would you be able to apply for a conversion to a 1-year extension of stay for marriage during any of these two periods, i.e, the 90 day period or the 60 day period after that, even though your visa has long since expired?

It is the same for any multiple entry visa. What you wrote is correct about the entry and 60 day extension.

You can extend any type of entry for 60 days if married to a Thai or have a Thai child.

You could apply for a one year extension of stay during the last 30 days of any of the 90 day entries from your visa. It would not matter if your visa was expired since you are not extending the visa.

It would be best to apply for the one year extension of the 90 day entry instead of the 60 day extension since you would not be able to apply again for one for as long as your are on  extensions of stay. You can only get one per entry and a entry from a re-entry permit is not a new entry.

If you got a re-entry permit before applying for the 60 day extension you would need to get another one after getting the extension.

 

[jimster]

29 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is the same for any multiple entry visa. What you wrote is correct about the entry and 60 day extension.

You can extend any type of entry for 60 days if married to a Thai or have a Thai child.

You could apply for a one year extension of stay during the last 30 days of any of the 90 day entries from your visa. It would not matter if your visa was expired since you are not extending the visa.

It would be best to apply for the one year extension of the 90 day entry instead of the 60 day extension since you would not be able to apply again for one for as long as your are on  extensions of stay. You can only get one per entry and a entry from a re-entry permit is not a new entry.

If you got a re-entry permit before applying for the 60 day extension you would need to get another one after getting the extension.

 

THanks. I was wondering about getting the 1-year extension on the 60 day marriage extension simply as a "just in case" if it takes additional time to get my documents in order to apply for the 1-year marriage extension. In particular, the monetary part. Another option is the multi entry non-O from Savannakhet but for personal reasons I don't want to go into, I'd prefer if around the time of the last 90-day entry I don't have to leave Thailand anymore for a while.

[wobalt]

It is the correct visa for someone living outside Thailand that goes home between visits. If you are living in the country you have no need for a multiple entry visa (any visa), and should apply for an extension of stay. Why would anyone want to do a border run every 90 days unless they were dodging local immigration for some reason! Thai officialdom is not stupid and as married expat numbers grow the stricter they will become to ensure those living in the country are vetted by local immigration.

It is also the correct visa for someone living in Thailand and often has to go outside of Thailand.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, wobalt said:

It is also the correct visa for someone living in Thailand and often has to go outside of Thailand.

No it's not. If you're living in the country you don't need a visa as you've already entered the country.

 

If you are living in the country you should be extending your permission to stay based on whatever reason used to justify that stay.

 

If you want to leave the country and maintain that permission to stay you use a single or multiple re-entry permit.

 

It's a multiple entry visa not a multiple exit visa.

 

It is meant, within the visa/permit system, for people living abroad that want to regularly visit the country and go home.

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, wobalt said:

It is also the correct visa for someone living in Thailand and often has to go outside of Thailand.

 

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

 

If you are living in the country you should be extending your permission to stay based on whatever reason used to justify that stay.

For some people that are working outside the country on a rotation it is not always possible to do an extension of stay. Problem one is the doing the extension application during the last 30 or 45 days their most recent entry. But the big one is being here by the report back date on the under consideration stamp after applying for the extension.

[wobalt]

In deed. In my case generally spoken, exists no home country anymore, as I am registered in Thailand more than 10 y ago. However my Thai wife and I working as experts in Asia Pacific, which means that we both have to go outside Thailand for projects regularly. The money requirements for an extension would be due to high project fees no problem. We are using our home in Thailand as "base camp" therefore not always we are at our home at the same time, which might it make difficult to meet some of the requirements for the extension. I am going now more and more in a retirement phase, being financial supported by my wife focusing on giving presentations on conferences etc. and some outdoor activities in high seasons in Nepal.

[elviajero]

22 hours ago, wobalt said:

In deed. In my case generally spoken, exists no home country anymore, as I am registered in Thailand more than 10 y ago. However my Thai wife and I working as experts in Asia Pacific, which means that we both have to go outside Thailand for projects regularly. The money requirements for an extension would be due to high project fees no problem. We are using our home in Thailand as "base camp" therefore not always we are at our home at the same time, which might it make difficult to meet some of the requirements for the extension. I am going now more and more in a retirement phase, being financial supported by my wife focusing on giving presentations on conferences etc. and some outdoor activities in high seasons in Nepal.

Thailand is clearly your home. It may not be your home country, but you are resident in Thailand regardless of your immigration status.

 

I understand the difficulties of meeting the extension hurdles/requirements, but it doesn't change the fact that an extension is what you should have based on the visa/permit system. As it stands you're probably not going to get any hassle from immigration and if I were you I might use a ME visa too,

 

The ME visa is not an alternative to an extension and is designed for a different type of visitor. It is not the correct method ("visa") for you, but all the time immigration tolerate it's use by expats there will be no problem for you continuing to use the ME visa.

 

The Thai authorities did not design a system so that expat A has to meet financial criteria etc., and expat B, living in the house next door, can avoid contact with local immigration, the financials and all the scrutiny by leaving the country every 90 days. The fact that the situation has been allowed to develop is fortunate for people like you and long may it continue. But I would bet my house that eventually, if numbers continue to increase, this loophole will be closed.

 

Many people living in Thailand benefit from, contrary to popular opinion, lax enforcement of the visa/permit system.

Edited July 31, 2017 by elviajero

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Thailand is clearly your home. It may not be your home country, but you are resident in Thailand regardless of your immigration status.

 

I understand the difficulties of meeting the extension hurdles/requirements, but it doesn't change the fact that an extension is what you should have based on the visa/permit system. As it stands you're probably not going to get any hassle from immigration and if I were you I might use a ME visa too,

 

The ME visa is not an alternative to an extension and is designed for a different type of visitor. It is not the correct method ("visa") for you, but all the time immigration tolerate it's use by expats there will be no problem for you continuing to use the ME visa.

 

The Thai authorities did not design a system so that expat A has to meet financial criteria etc., and expat B, living in the house next door, can avoid contact with local immigration, the financials and all the scrutiny by leaving the country every 90 days. The fact that the situation has been allowed to develop is fortunate for people like you and long may it continue. But I would bet my house that eventually, if numbers continue to increase, this loophole will be closed.

 

Many people living in Thailand benefit from, contrary to popular opinion, lax enforcement of the visa/permit system.

I agree with your prediction that limits may be imposed in the future on 1-yr ME visas based on marriage (and possibly retirement).  Of those who "live in Thailand" using this visa (vs those who are in/out rotation, etc - for whom this Visa is clearly applicable), are 2 categories of persons who use the 1-yr ME visa. 

 

Category 1 are those who cannot meet the financial requirements.  We can debate whether is it good/moral/justified to prevent people from staying with their spouses and/or children by not meeting a financial threshold, and whether or not compassion and/or the fact that exactly zero 'welfare' is available to a foreigner, are reasons the "loophole" is left open, but let's set that aside for now. 

 

Category 2 are those who have found immigration offices difficult to deal with, due to either laziness or overwork of personnel, who do not want to process a marriage conversion or extension.  They will go so far as to arbitrarily change the reason for the extension to "retirement," if the financials and age allow this, just to avoid doing the extra work required to process a marriage-extension.  When that won't work, they add "extra requirements," in a clear attempt to frustrate the applicant to the point that they go to a Thai-Consulate for a Visa.  If the applicant has the money, they may pay an agent, part of whose fees go to immigration-personnel - essentially "paying extra" to get immigration to carry out the duties in their job description, and/or allowing those who *do not* meet the specified qualifications to obtain extensions.

 

If Immigration wishes to get more people doing things "The Right Way" (tm), this must start with a 'crackdown' on immigration personnel who are avoiding and/or unable (due to understaffing) to carry out their responsibilities.  This could be accomplished by

• Prohibit local-offices from adding any additional qualifications to those defined by Bangkok. 
• Prohibit all agent-applications; an agent can help someone fill out the paperwork, but the application should be submitted in-person by the same procedures those doing it alone are required to do - with the "money in the bank for months" (not loaned for a day), etc. 
• Legalize and encourage all interactions with Immigration to be recorded - with specific whistleblower-protections enacted, so that malfeasance can be documented and ended.
• Increase staffing in cases where immigration-offices can not keep up with demand (Chang Mai comes to mind)

Until steps are taken to clean-up Immigration, the idea of adding restrictions to prevent "going around" immigration (as local immigration-personnel clearly prefer, since it means "less work" for them), is not justified.

Edited July 31, 2017 by JackThompson

[wobalt]

First thing would be that immigration streamline its policy to be the same in all offices. Unfortunately Thailand has little intention to develop and implement an integration strategy for foreigners, living in the country. This  leads to parallel societies with all consequences associated with that.