Special Report: Phuket hospitals facing huge losses from uninsured patients

[Thaidream]

Do not agree that most people are deadbeats milking the system. That is what private hospitals and insurance companies want you to believe so they can continue to make huge profits off the backs of the working.

If you agree that people have a right to life- you have to agree that they have a right to healthcare as it is essential to life. Shall we allow certain people to die because of lack of funds or because someone thinks they are taking the piss and getting something for nothing.

I am not advocating Communism but Government exists to provide certain things such as Healthcare; Education and other necessities associated with life. Otherwise, why do we need them and why pay taxes?

The insurance industry along with private hospitals/doctors and Big Pharma have brainwashed a generation of Americans to believe that those who have no insurance are because they want to live off the public purse- all of which is false. Most countries that have government single payer health care are funded through taxes paid for by the working public such as the UK's NHS scheme.  If for whatever reason one cannot find a job- they are still entitled to healthcare as well as someone retired who paid into the scheme for many decades.

It is a myth that there are people unemployed living on the dole that enjoy it and want to live that way. The amounts of Welfare are minor compared to what one can earn while working.  Because of the greed of companies throughout the World who have outsourced jobs to less developed countries -there may be a class of people who are 'unemployable' but they still have a right to life and should be assisted by others who are more well off.

The concept of I've got mine- go get yours is fine when there is something to get but in today's World sometimes it's not possible. 

The majority of Expats in Thailand including me have worked all our lives and paid taxes to allow such things as American Medicare to exist  as well as the UKs NHS. A bigger question is why won't these Governments allow its citizens to use their healthcare credits which they paid for overseas and why do they refuse to refund the money. It's called greed and not caring about its own citizenry.

[simoh1490]

36 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Prostate ops. have been posted at around 220,000 baht at private hospitals, so figure 5k Pounds, much less at government hospitals.

Sorry I'm wrong on the above, the cost in Thailand is  USD 3,500/5,000, about the same as India:

 

http://medicaltourismguide.com/procedures/medical/prostatectomy-or-prostate-surgery/

[Felt 35]

On ‎18‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 6:32 PM, simoh1490 said:

Sensible for tourists of course - but what would you suggest for the nearly 3 million resident expats who already live here, many of whom have lived here for ten years or more, are over the 70, have pre-existing conditions and are unable to buy health insurance in Thailand.

I will suggest that the expats living here working, retired or have at least one year visa and pay tax in accordance with the Thai law and  their own countries tax treaties with Thailand get the opportunity to use the health care here on a equal basis as Thai citizens. Yes I know that Government health care here not necessary are adekvat but its a bit far stretch to expect better care than the citizens of the country. Besides most Thais which in one or another way can afford it also have a insurance and/or are partly covered by another familie members insurance.

[little mary sunshine]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Prostate ops. have been posted at around 220,000 baht at private hospitals, so figure 5k Pounds, much less at government hospitals.

Many times you get what you pay for....I would shop

and bargain for a used car, but my health, I want the

best possible physician!  You only live once, I would 

Pay for the Private hospital in BKK.

[little mary sunshine]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Do not agree that most people are deadbeats milking the system. That is what private hospitals and insurance companies want you to believe so they can continue to make huge profits off the backs of the working.

If you agree that people have a right to life- you have to agree that they have a right to healthcare as it is essential to life. Shall we allow certain people to die because of lack of funds or because someone thinks they are taking the piss and getting something for nothing.

I am not advocating Communism but Government exists to provide certain things such as Healthcare; Education and other necessities associated with life. Otherwise, why do we need them and why pay taxes?

The insurance industry along with private hospitals/doctors and Big Pharma have brainwashed a generation of Americans to believe that those who have no insurance are because they want to live off the public purse- all of which is false. Most countries that have government single payer health care are funded through taxes paid for by the working public such as the UK's NHS scheme.  If for whatever reason one cannot find a job- they are still entitled to healthcare as well as someone retired who paid into the scheme for many decades.

It is a myth that there are people unemployed living on the dole that enjoy it and want to live that way. The amounts of Welfare are minor compared to what one can earn while working.  Because of the greed of companies throughout the World who have outsourced jobs to less developed countries -there may be a class of people who are 'unemployable' but they still have a right to life and should be assisted by others who are more well off.

The concept of I've got mine- go get yours is fine when there is something to get but in today's World sometimes it's not possible. 

The majority of Expats in Thailand including me have worked all our lives and paid taxes to allow such things as American Medicare to exist  as well as the UKs NHS. A bigger question is why won't these Governments allow its citizens to use their healthcare credits which they paid for overseas and why do they refuse to refund the money. It's called greed and not caring about its own citizenry.

If you are 65+ and receive US Soc Sec you are 100% entitled

to Medicare....Just go to the US when you're are ill!!   That's 

the law.   Pay your $3,000 annual deduction and Medicare

will pay 80% of the usual fees....You may need to pay an

additional 5-10K out of pocket.....Or just bite the bullet and

get the same quality treatment in BKK for $4-5K!!.,!

[Thaidream]

Why should I have to return to my own country to get what I have already paid for when healthcare is a universal right or should be . In addition, treatment would be cheaper in Thailand than America. the law is discriminatory and shows that those in Government cannot break the link between big Insurance; private for profit hospitals and Big Pharma. Politicians receive huge amounts of money from lobbyists who then expect the status quo to be preserved. I have the right to live anywhere and I expect what I paid for to be available anywhere.

[teddog]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Prostate ops. have been posted at around 220,000 baht at private hospitals, so figure 5k Pounds, much less at government hospitals.

Never seen so cheap  ,with private room?   Anyway  Heart echo test 400 baht,  bowel cancer,about the same...35 thousand was quoted here a while ago

[simoh1490]

26 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Many times you get what you pay for....I would shop

and bargain for a used car, but my health, I want the

best possible physician!  You only live once, I would 

Pay for the Private hospital in BKK.

Those numbers are from private hospitals in Bangkok, in fact the Bumrungrad price is at that level.

 

But I can sympathise with poster Teddog when he makes that price comparison. I needed a coronary stent nine years ago and the price comparison came down to 13k Pounds +++ for the Squire Group in the UK vs 176k baht at Bumrungrad vs 165k at CM RAM, physician quality was similar in all three. It's a bit like dentists here, you don't need the very very best, you just need one that's above a certain level and there are zillions of them, all at different prices.

[teddog]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Sorry I'm wrong on the above, the cost in Thailand is  USD 3,500/5,000, about the same as India:

 

http://medicaltourismguide.com/procedures/medical/prostatectomy-or-prostate-surgery/

   Same as India ?   I paid 35 thousand baht for holep (32  actually as refunded admission fee)  turp would come around 30000

TURP Surgery Cost.htm

Edited April 20, 2017 by teddog

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, teddog said:

 

TURP Surgery Cost.htm

Maybe it's my browser but I couldn't get your link on Turp to open. I'm guessing it's details of TURP pricing in India, in which case I will agree in advance that it is almost certainly possible to get it done very cheaply if you look around. For most people it would be a question of, do you really want to have very very cheap surgery and everyone's answer is likely to be different, each to their own as they say.

 

EDIT to add: I'm guessing also that if a person gets the work done at a government hospital in Thailand the price will come way down, since Thai males have prostrates also this shouldn't be a problem for most westerners.

Edited April 20, 2017 by simoh1490

[teddog]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

Maybe it's my browser but I couldn't get your link on Turp to open. I'm guessing it's details of TURP pricing in India, in which case I will agree in advance that it is almost certainly possible to get it done very cheaply if you look around. For most people it would be a question of, do you really want to have very very cheap surgery and everyone's answer is likely to be different, each to their own as they say.

Surgeon I had works between Barcelona and Bangalore, all trained  in US /UK   Ive seen results from Thailand from a few farangs     never here in thailand

[teddog]

32 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Those numbers are from private hospitals in Bangkok, in fact the Bumrungrad price is at that level.

 

But I can sympathise with poster Teddog when he makes that price comparison. I needed a coronary stent nine years ago and the price comparison came down to 13k Pounds +++ for the Squire Group in the UK vs 176k baht at Bumrungrad vs 165k at CM RAM, physician quality was similar in all three. It's a bit like dentists here, you don't need the very very best, you just need one that's above a certain level and there are zillions of them, all at different prices.

squire group  UK was  6500 GBP         open heart surgery  (hospital (international) started at 60000Rps    about 1400GBP

Edited April 20, 2017 by teddog

[teddog]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Sorry I'm wrong on the above, the cost in Thailand is  USD 3,500/5,000, about the same as India:

 

http://medicaltourismguide.com/procedures/medical/prostatectomy-or-prostate-surgery/

 

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Hernia Surgery in India

1. Home
2. Treatments
3. Hernia Surgery Cost

Hernia may occur in any part of your body including groin, brain, diaphragm, abdomen, or any area that was previously operated. Umbilical hernias in new born babies get cured naturally within 4 years and do not need any medical assistance. However, all other cases need to be treated with medicines and Hernia surgery.

Hernias do not cause much discomfort at the beginning and therefore some people tend to postpone these operations. Here is when complexities arise. Prolonged hernias cause the organ to get strangulated. This leads to internal swelling and infection. In very rare cases, these infections become fatal.

Right Doctor & Hospital is Everything in Treatment

 

Need help finding right doctor/hospital for Hernia Surgery in your city. Just fill this form.

 

 

 

 

 

Our doctors/health advisors will provide you with all the information & help you need choosing the right hospital & doctor. It is 100% free service.

We have Hernia Surgery price information in 15 cities.

City	Average Price	Starting Price	Price Upto
Bangalore	Rs. 65774.00	Rs. 50.00	Rs. 200000.00
Chandigarh	Rs. 24200.00	Rs. 19800.00	Rs. 28600.00
Chennai	Rs. 89273.00	Rs. 15000.00	Rs. 200000.00
Ghaziabad	Rs. 9500.00	Rs. 7000.00	Rs. 12000.00
Hyderabad	Rs. 119477.00	Rs. 30000.00	Rs. 200000.00
Kolkata	Rs. 43379.00	Rs. 7000.00	Rs. 120000.00
Mumbai	Rs. 62866.00	Rs. 1500.00	Rs. 280000.00
Navi Mumbai	Rs. 35000.00	Rs. 25000.00	Rs. 40000.00
New Delhi	Rs. 57394.00	Rs. 10000.00	Rs. 260000.00
Pune	Rs. 58675.00	Rs. 9000.00	Rs. 200000.00
Secunderabad	Rs. 131667.00	Rs. 80000.00	Rs. 180000.00
Thane	Rs. 40000.00	Rs. 35000.00	Rs. 45000.00

Herniorraphy (Hernia Surgery) is not a very complex surgical treatment. These are usually ambulatory procedures involving local or general anesthesia. However, if strangulation occurs, then some additional steps are required to cut and eliminate the oxygen starved part of that organ.

There are multitude of reasons that cause hernia. Lifting heavy things that strain the belly walls may lead to hernia. Those suffering from chronic constipation or enlarged prostate glands that causes difficulties in bowel movements and urination may also develop hernia. Extra body weight, fluid in the abdomen or family history etc. are some additional reasons behind this disorder.

The cost of Hernia surgeries vary, depending upon hospital, type of operation; that can be open or laproscopic, size of hernias and the area affected. However, an approximate amount lies between INR 18,000 to INR 30,000 for open surgeries. While for laproscopic surgeries, the starting amount is INR 40,000.

Several weeks are required to recover from this surgery. Use of ice packs for 3 - 5 times a day proves to be helpful for quick recovery. This needs to last for 15 - 20 minutes only. Patients should resume showers only after medical advice. Slow but regular walks are important to avoid stiffness.

 

o

Focus Retriever

20 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Maybe it's my browser but I couldn't get your link on Turp to open. I'm guessing it's details of TURP pricing in India, in which case I will agree in advance that it is almost certainly possible to get it done very cheaply if you look around. For most people it would be a question of, do you really want to have very very cheap surgery and everyone's answer is likely to be different, each to their own as they say.

 

EDIT to add: I'm guessing also that if a person gets the work done at a government hospital in Thailand the price will come way down, since Thai males have prostrates also this shouldn't be a problem for most westerners.

10,000GBP my neighbour was banged for(still not finished by one of Thailands finest private hospitals

Edited April 20, 2017 by teddog

[simoh1490]

Relax Teddog, we don't disagree.

[hakancnx]

An accident insurance cost about B 6.000 per year. (60-65 year) Cover about 100.000 per accident, except MC accidents. That should be in the MC insurance. 

 

Health insurance is another matter. 

Find one which fits you is not easy. 

Fee can be sky high....

 

If, or when, the 10 year visa appears we will see something about insurance also. 

 

 

[teddog]

35 minutes ago, hakancnx said:

An accident insurance cost about B 6.000 per year. (60-65 year) Cover about 100.000 per accident, except MC accidents. That should be in the MC insurance. 

 

Health insurance is another matter. 

Find one which fits you is not easy. 

Fee can be sky high....

 

If, or when, the 10 year visa appears we will see something about insurance also. 

 

 

I think not,there are countries now that insist on medical insurance,but that requirement is dropped after a certain age due to non-availability

[NamKangMan]

 

 

In relation to Phuket, I can only imagine how the lack of transport here increases hospital admissions to ALL Phuket hospitals. 

 

Anyway, It's not difficult for the Thai Government to attach a "Medical Insurance Fee" to ALL long stay visas, particularly retirement visas. 

 

If you can't pay the "Medical Insurance Fee" then you can't afford to live in Thailand.  Quality expats and all.  :)  

 

 I'm sure they could make a profit from such a scheme.

 

As for the tourists, perhaps attach a small medical insurance fee to the flight taxes that already exist to cover the minority that need serious medical treatment. 

[LivinginKata]

17 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

In relation to Phuket, I can only imagine how the lack of transport here increases hospital admissions to ALL Phuket hospitals. 

 

Anyway, It's not difficult for the Thai Government to attach a "Medical Insurance Fee" to ALL long stay visas, particularly retirement visas. 

 

If you can't pay the "Medical Insurance Fee" then you can't afford to live in Thailand.  Quality expats and all.  :)  

 

 I'm sure they could make a profit from such a scheme.

 

As for the tourists, perhaps attach a small medical insurance fee to the flight taxes that already exist to cover the minority that need serious medical treatment. 

 

Really stretching your 'transport' agenda to link it to 'hospital admissions'  .... way out there NKM

[Felt 35]

50 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Really stretching your 'transport' agenda to link it to 'hospital admissions'  .... way out there NKM

Well I don't know but if I was a local and owned 50% and up of the shares in the island`s car dealers, 10 - 35% of the shares in the Island`s private hospitals then I think status quo with the traffic and transport problems would be just fine.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Really stretching your 'transport' agenda to link it to 'hospital admissions'  .... way out there NKM

 

Phuket has the most road fatalities of all the provices in Thialand, and last I heard, Thailand was something like the 4th most dangerous country to be on the road.

 

Now, think about all those broken wrists, collar bones, arms, legs etc.  They don't make the fatality list, not to mention, you are not counted if you aren't dead at the scene.

 

You seriously don't think that everyone here needing to be on two wheels, because there is no other viable financial option,  doesn't effect hospital admissions on Phuket????

[NamKangMan]

12 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

Well I don't know but if I was a local and owned 50% and up of the shares in the island`s car dealers, 10 - 35% of the shares in the Island`s private hospitals then I think status quo with the traffic and transport problems would be just fine.

 

 

I see your point.

 

The private hospitals on Phuket must be making huge money from motorbike accidents here.

 

I only looked at it from an admission statistic perspective, however, the baht turnover for them must be considerable. 

[gigman]

On 18.04.2017 at 0:32 PM, simoh1490 said:

Sensible for tourists of course - but what would you suggest for the nearly 3 million resident expats who already live here, many of whom have lived here for ten years or more, are over the 70, have pre-existing conditions and are unable to buy health insurance in Thailand.

This should be considered as cruelty of Thai's . For those who do not know...; Those expats usualy spent whole they life savings living there and their age pension . On top of this a lot of them having families with local woman having children and they always must expect to trown out or refused visa. 

This the reason for me that I changed my mind to stay in this country as expat. This is just clear cruelty and I do not want to pretend I feel OK  and smile in LOS. At least Thailand should make a little different rules for this kind of farangs.

[USPatriot]

So come up with a policy for foreigners that live in Thailand.  I'm telling you I was not allowed to leave the hospital until my bill was paid

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

So come up with a policy for foreigners that live in Thailand.  I'm telling you I was not allowed to leave the hospital until my bill was paid

Until quite recently, no Thai company would offer medical insurance to anyone aged over 65, you simply couldn't get it here. That left the foreign majors such as BUPA and Cigna which are very expensive. The problem today for many is that they are in the 65 to 75 range and whilst they are now able to buy insurance locally the cost is the same as the overseas majors but the contracts are not as strictly enforceable, that means the company can cancel almost at will. 

[MalandLee]

There are solutions out there, but, they require political will - ONE POSSIBLE ANSWER, would be for Thailand to examine the COMPULSORY Schengen “style” visa HEALTH insurance scheme AND FUND IT THEMSELVES – NO INSURANCE COMPANIES.

 

Approx Calculations (From Euro to Baht) to enable a common currency:-

 

TOURISTS

 

30 million tourists (2015 figures 29.8 million) each with a compulsory health policy @ approx 700 Baht each SAME AS SCHENGEN POLICY

 

Approx income:- Twenty-one BILLION Baht. You would not want those that cannot afford 700 Baht anyhow?

 

READ THE SCHENGEN POLICY http://bit.ly/2g13Ip3 Europe can do it, so can Thailand.

 

EXPATS

 

Long Term visa holders must pay REGARDLESS OF AGE. About 1,100 Baht each and every month – For FULL access to Thai PUBLIC Hospital System. Pr-existing conditions, same as Schengen policy.

 

 

This does NOT stop the filthy rich having their own policy, BUT, it does NOT mean they need not pay – see the word COMPULSORY on the first line.

[simoh1490]

37 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

There are solutions out there, but, they require political will - ONE POSSIBLE ANSWER, would be for Thailand to examine the COMPULSORY Schengen “style” visa HEALTH insurance scheme AND FUND IT THEMSELVES – NO INSURANCE COMPANIES.

 

Approx Calculations (From Euro to Baht) to enable a common currency:-

 

TOURISTS

 

30 million tourists (2015 figures 29.8 million) each with a compulsory health policy @ approx 700 Baht each SAME AS SCHENGEN POLICY

 

Approx income:- Twenty-one BILLION Baht. You would not want those that cannot afford 700 Baht anyhow?

 

READ THE SCHENGEN POLICY http://bit.ly/2g13Ip3 Europe can do it, so can Thailand.

 

EXPATS

 

Long Term visa holders must pay REGARDLESS OF AGE. About 1,100 Baht each and every month – For FULL access to Thai PUBLIC Hospital System. Pr-existing conditions, same as Schengen policy.

 

 

This does NOT stop the filthy rich having their own policy, BUT, it does NOT mean they need not pay – see the word COMPULSORY on the first line.

The problem in the OP is not about tourists or western expat retirees who live here. The problem is the some 2 million Burmese, Cambodian and Laotian workers who come here to work on construction projects, fishing boats and other labour intensive areas where's there's a shortage of labour. Requiring those people to buy compulsory insurance at 1,100 baht a month is simply not going to work, that's why the Thai government started to allow them access to the Thai 30 baht medical scheme. If the problem were western tourists/expats, most of them could be held to ransom by the hospitals until their bill was paid, holding a Burmese labourer to ransom gets them nowhere fast.

[meatboy]

On 18/4/2560 at 6:28 PM, the guest said:

If the government was smart, it would make it compulsory for all foreigners to have full insurance before a visa would be granted. It solves a lot of problems.

yeh they should start with the no of UNINSURED THAI DRIVERS who cause accidents to tourists,that might solve a few problems.

[pentap]

What about the consideration for the thousands of Thais that have either received or are receiving, in many other parts of the world, medical assistance!?

Every time I've had to attend either a clinic or hospital, within Thailand, I've always had to pay, including the birth of my two Thai born children, plus the Thai family and hanger ones, that have all had some form of medical assistance in the past and at my expense, a foreigner.

Poor management coupled with extortion and corruption, springs to mind.

Why not blame tourists and ex pats for their incompetence...

Yet another form of scape goat!

FACE cannot be LOST...

[teddog]

I liked the Christmas ad that went something like this (private hospital of course)  '  here is my gift to you..  (results from a full medical check-up from this hospital)   good health to you from me...but an empty wallet...sorry

 

  This is Phuket hospitals,...for a   non-life threatening injuries,broken bones etc  the border is not far,get it strapped up ,  at far less cost than Thailand,..and Alor Star is not far off,have know jet skiers travelling down to Penang for broken bones after accidents in Phuket  ...for free too

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by teddog

[gemguy]

Well then....Possibly the government officials could allot some money to the hospitals that are genuinely struggling.

They could do that but nope, the Chinese submarine deal supersedes all other matters of importance.

Just saying....you know?

Cheers

 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by gemguy