Property sector welcomes 99-year leases

[KIWIBATCH]

2 hours ago, philliphn said:

What and where are the, "Special Zones?"

Quite possibly in the areas that flood...but who knows...

[dageurreotype]

3 hours ago, Boycie said:

Yet a news story that i have to question the figures. 30 to 99 years, great sales pitch but shouldn't it be from 30 to 50 years or 60 to 99 years? 

 

Why not give a 99 year lease instead of complicating things with a 50+49years agreement?

Those questioning the 99 years are obviously not British as that's where they've nicked the figure from. 99 Year leases have been the norm in the UK for decades. My grandfather had one, much to the chagrin of his descendants upon his demise, theyd assumed he'd owned his nice big house in Islington 

[natway09]

Why not just make the 30 + 30 a simple 60 years.

It certainly will not be my worry in 60 years

[khunPer]

Before we all get too excited, it sounds merely like it's in some specified economic zones, foreigners will be allowed to invest in a limited total number of rais for development (631,000) – probably not intended to attract buyers of small plots for a little private house, and it's only in the provinces Chachoengsao, Chon Buri and Rayong; according to the news stories I read today...

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, Mickmouse1 said:

50 YEARS...THE 49is not automatic and could be subject to manipulation and arm twisting negotiation as my mate has just experienced in Samui where his remaining lease expired and the owners demanded 20mil B to renew for further 20 years.LOST THE BEACH VILLA

The opportunity for cons here are endless. Loopholes add ons its why I would never buy. They catch the low lying fruit and skim the surface like the half price gold sellers and the 10,000 baht trip to Japan people but other cons like you mentioned are overlooked. Did he actually have the right to demand 20 million baht if he did so was it a con then or just poor judgement. 

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

“If the government opens up the opportunity for foreign buyers to hold residential leases for up to 99 years, like Singapore and Malaysia do,

In America they call it "Keeping up with the Joneses"

[bbbbooboo]

hmmm.... I'm not holding my breath.....

[elgordo38]

10 minutes ago, bbbbooboo said:

hmmm.... I'm not holding my breath.....

Only if your underwater. 

[realenglish1]

3 hours ago, ksamuiguy said:

"Trust Me"

In over 40 years in "The Kingdom" I have seen many changes, most for the better, better for those with money and power.

I have seen it to long, it is just to hard. A legal document means nothing here, to many cavorts and exception , changes after the terms or what ever are agreed on.

The trust has disappeared, The country has lost its Credibility, one of the most difficult losses there is to recover from.

Even the proposed change won't help, sorry to say it took years to loose, slowly f^@k the foreigners, I personally believe it is to late to recover. So I believe Thailand is doomed to try and exist on tourism, but again the past is coming back to haunt them. The "Touts" are suffering the most they have been screwing the Tourists for 30 years, now the tourists are organized, tour companies have organized the chaos and plan everything, arrange everything, no surprises. Most tourists are On Vacation and don't want to be bothered, they have a itinerary and follow it, no thinking involved!

 

I see it now when the cruse ships come in to Natorn, everything has been organized by the cruse company, "things" are waiting for them when they arrive. We now see far less "Touts' , taxi's, rouge vans, everything has been arranged before they leave the ship and it works. (85%) take the offered tour or attraction packages offered.

 

Sorry to say that Thailand is no longer the only kid on the block.

Thailand has become the gateway for tourists continuing on to other country destinations.

It reminds me of a "bedroom community" only go there to rest, sleep before going out to other destinations. Like a base of operations, easy for the first time visitor, because this is there one and only ever trip, "once in a life time" You can see it in the number of transfer to other destinations from Thailand. To bad these people are counted as visitors, not transient.

 

Her is the Rub of the so called new rules It is not a 99 year lease It is an option to renew for additional time Why are they always trying to stack the rules

Just make a simple 99 year lease no time periods and honour the leases  dont try and break then on a federal level

This just may and I repeat may entice foreigners to invest in Thailand

Right now you are living of the tourist dollars but times get bad

Case in Point Miami was the hub of tourist activity in the 50s through the 1980s Then it collapsed and people just did not go It took until the turn of the century for some and I Repeat some tourists to go back but it has not reached its glory days

This can and will happen to Thailand unless you start to treat your tourists with respect and dignity. Start to honor your commitments spoken and unspoken to all not just Thais and then you can assure your future is cast in stone but not yet You have a lot of work

 

Why not get a few Farang working for the Tourist Authority and find out  what is really going on  Cultures and nuances are different the TOT is missing so much just because of the cultural differences But they will not do this because they believe they now what is best  not what works 

So sad

One reason the West works so well is they are inclusive of all and want to know what other cultures are about Not THailand or at least the government and powers to be 

[anotheruser]

2 hours ago, StefanBBK said:

I wanted to comment exactly the same.  

 

Why not do things exactly replicating what Thais can do in foreign countries? i.e. if a Thai can buy freehold land in X Country, people from X Country should be allowed to buy freehold land in Thailand? 

 

Because Thailand would come out on the short end of the stick if it was done this way.

[mikiea]

8 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Please, trust us!

yea right  , .... pssst.......wanna buy a bridge ?

 

[mikiea]

2 hours ago, ross163103 said:

How many years have we heard different things like this, won't believe it until I see it. Just keeps the farangs hoping.......55555555!

well when the bookkeeping catches up with the %  #'rs being tossed about concerning the economy .... well it is a sure thing the bottom will fall out , and when it does every body will be scrambling for the foreigners buckaroo's . changes will be made in the laws pertaining to real estate . average $50,000 usd x 100000 foreigners , do the math . it would be enough to replace what disappeared ( ehhh... rounded off) and then some .

[just.a.thought]

I think they overestimate the effects it will have on foreign investments. The fact is that most foreigners do not trust the 30+30 arrangements for more than the first 30 years. The greed and lack of honesty in regards to property rental contracts terms,has long since destroyed most renters trust,in the Thai rental system. 

If the government leave the door open for pressuring the tenants,which they do with any contract that can be renegotiated, there will be no significant increase of investors. The trust in the Thai property market is not i on the rise, this year will probably make it worse especially in Pattaya. Projects like Centara Grand Residence and Waterfront looks like they are going to cost a lot of investors a lot of money. Several other projects are delayed for years some will probably never be build or completed.

An alternative would be to allow foreigners to own the land their house is build on within walled developments, it could easily be done as with condos 49% foreign owners and 51% Thai. Add to this a 20 year renewable Visa,would show true commitment to the foreign investors.

 

[Jimbo2014]

Someone has been thinking hard about all the ways to boost the economy.  I wouldnt recommend spending any more than you are willing to loose.  

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, realenglish1 said:

Right now you are living of the tourist dollars

 

No.

 

4 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

No. Ultimately this reflects the classic TVF Poster Golden Egg Layers Theory Of Thai Economics. More about that here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/936844-pattaya-going-downhill/?page=31#comment-11359895

 

You can discover the reality here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Thailand

 

And this new law may be helpful for the other sectors.

[Wake Up]

5 hours ago, ksamuiguy said:

"Trust Me"

In over 40 years in "The Kingdom" I have seen many changes, most for the better, better for those with money and power.

I have seen it to long, it is just to hard. A legal document means nothing here, to many cavorts and exception , changes after the terms or what ever are agreed on.

The trust has disappeared, The country has lost its Credibility, one of the most difficult losses there is to recover from.

Even the proposed change won't help, sorry to say it took years to loose, slowly f^@k the foreigners, I personally believe it is to late to recover. So I believe Thailand is doomed to try and exist on tourism, but again the past is coming back to haunt them. The "Touts" are suffering the most they have been screwing the Tourists for 30 years, now the tourists are organized, tour companies have organized the chaos and plan everything, arrange everything, no surprises. Most tourists are On Vacation and don't want to be bothered, they have a itinerary and follow it, no thinking involved!

 

I see it now when the cruse ships come in to Natorn, everything has been organized by the cruse company, "things" are waiting for them when they arrive. We now see far less "Touts' , taxi's, rouge vans, everything has been arranged before they leave the ship and it works. (85%) take the offered tour or attraction packages offered.

 

Sorry to say that Thailand is no longer the only kid on the block.

Thailand has become the gateway for tourists continuing on to other country destinations.

It reminds me of a "bedroom community" only go there to rest, sleep before going out to other destinations. Like a base of operations, easy for the first time visitor, because this is there one and only ever trip, "once in a life time" You can see it in the number of transfer to other destinations from Thailand. To bad these people are counted as visitors, not transient.

 

True but a legal document where foreign companies invest hundreds of millions of dollars does mean something. They have the means and the political government entities to get what they pay for.  Venezuela is screwed taken over the GM plant. Look what happened to Cuba. If a Russian or American company invested hundreds of millions of dollars in building a plant in Thailand then your thoughts that Thailand can do what it wants are misguided.  Governments are used by the 1 percenter to control the planet ----governments and voters do not. 

 

Companies want a 50 year lease plus 49 year option ( rather than a 99 year lease)  to negotiate special tax reliefs after the first 49 years to stay in Thailand for another 49 years and reinvest in upgrading the buildings etc.  50 plus 49 option worth a lot more economically than a 99 lease. 

 

The only concerns Expat living here has is that a 99 year commercial leases will bring more investment to Thailand ( see Shenzhen China etc...) housing around the special economic zone will increase a lot ( thus the relators and property owners want it) wages will increase, costs of goods will increase like girls and food as more well paid expats work here and Thai wages rise, and the baht will get stronger against foreign currency.

 

This is the smartest idea I have seen from Thailand government in my limited time here unless you want to keep low wages, lower housing costs, lower food costs and lower girl costs. If you are a Thai person or have Thai children this is great for them as their standard of living will increase but the Expat living on a fixed budget in 10 years will have to move far away from the special economic zone as he/she will not be able to afford living close to the special economic zone. For those owning condos near the special economic zone don't sell until the plants are built and workers from abroad and Thai workers attempt to relocate to the special economic zone. 

 

This happens all all over the world and Thailand is no different. They are courting international factories and that is smart if you are Thai citizen.  More better paying jobs, huge influx of foreign currency, wages, trade, real estate inflation, cars sold increase.....

 

At least 10 years away from start to finish but would be great for Thailand. 

 

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

We are all orphans in zombieland

[Cranky]

A contract in this country isn't worth the toilet paper it is written on.  Anyone familiar with what happened to The Ship Inn, Bangkok Soi 23 (now the Crazy House) will know why;  and that was 18 months into a 'solid' 3 year lease.

[Sparkles]

One of the joys of living in Thailand is that the goal posts, on what you can and can't do,  keep moving.

 

"Special zones"that's a new one. Will be quite a few interpretions on that clause.

[chilli42]

Meaningless for most of us

[dcnx]

6 hours ago, Mickmouse1 said:

50 YEARS...THE 49is not automatic and could be subject to manipulation and arm twisting negotiation as my mate has just experienced in Samui where his remaining lease expired and the owners demanded 20mil B to renew for further 20 years.LOST THE BEACH VILLA

I'd burn it to the ground.

[pentap]

Personally, I would never embark on any long term agreements, what so ever, within Thailand, ever again.

Corruption and lies are far too prevalent.

I've lost too much of my hard earned money to so called legally binding contractual agreements that turned out to have no legal substance what so ever, even after so called lawyers etc assured me that I was legally covered.

Reminds me of the Irish business man, in Thailand, who lost millions to bent Police, lawyers, land owners and Thai business people.

[Ashto]

A couple of points.

 

1.  The problem of landlords not being able to resist screwing the tenant on the exercise of a right of renewal in a lease existed in England too. A law had to be passed preventing the landlord from charging a premium for the exercise of the right of renewal. A right of renewal, of course, is different from the grant of a new lease. A landlord can charge a premium on the grant of a new lease. That's why having a right of renewal in a lease is supposed to be, and now is in England, a very valuable thing. 

 

2.  The question of whether foreigners, resident or not, should be permitted to buy freehold or leasehold land in a country involves many fascinating economic and social issues and any country that presently doesn't permit such ownership should be slow to grant it till the issues have been well thought through and discussed by the citizens of the country. 

 

Many western countries are presently experiencing excessive price appreciation of their real estate because foreigners are permitted to buy it and are doing so as a way of stashing their cash in safe havens. These foreigners include those from Eastern Europe and China. If Thailand permitted foreigners to buy their real estate they could expect to see prices rise significantly and possibly out of the range of many citizens. 

 

3.  The enforceability of contracts is crucial to the stability and economic success of a country. This is what is known as the rule of law. There's is considerable prosperity visible in Thailand so there must be a reasonable level of rule of law where very large projects are involved.

 

The "little man" may be another matter. I've not had to engage with how the enforcement of contracts works here and bow to the experience of those who have. I offer this observation however. I have extensive and lengthy experience of the operation of the rule of law in England, Australia and New Zealand and can say that even in those countries, which are considered among the best in this way, it's distinctly possible to finish a dispute feeling "screwed".

[woofwoof]

Most likely offering to renew the lease will cost you more money when you go to the land office they will claim the value of the property has gone up instead of just giving you a 99 year lease when first buying the home.

[Nip]

It's welcoming to see that Thai Visa members without exception realise that this proposed 99 year lease is as fake and feckless as the 30 year lease with another 30 year extension option. There is no legal obligation for the 30 year lease to be extended 30 more years and those who have fought it in court have lost it unless large brown envelopes were involved. Also if the owner of the property leased dies or the company folds the new owner has no obligation to the renter. The general consensus in the legal process here is any purchase (lease) is considered to be a circumvention of Thai law. As others have noted this 99 year lease is only being muted because the property market in Thailand and in particular Phuket is dead. 

[nickmondo]

8 hours ago, Boycie said:

Yet a news story that i have to question the figures. 30 to 99 years, great sales pitch but shouldn't it be from 30 to 50 years or 60 to 99 years? 

 

Why not give a 99 year lease instead of complicating things with a 50+49years agreement?

this is so typical.  firstly they say it has been extended to 99 years.  And immediately they say its 50 and 49!!!!  So bloody typical.  I certainly wont be buying somewhere.  Way too risky.

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, Mickmouse1 said:

50 YEARS...THE 49is not automatic and could be subject to manipulation and arm twisting negotiation as my mate has just experienced in Samui where his remaining lease expired and the owners demanded 20mil B to renew for further 20 years.LOST THE BEACH VILLA

 

Anyone considering buying a property or land on a lease should factor it in that this will happen almost every time. There's no way they're going to renew it if they don't have to and you will probably be dealing with someone else when the lease expires.

 

This is about 30 year leases changing to 50 year leases in some areas of the country. I would think of it as rent over 30 years paid up front with no maintenance included.

 

[realenglish1]

This type of lease will have 0 effect on business with foreigners. Why should they get involved with a complicated lease when they can go to so many

other countries that welcome them with open arms including land ownership

You had better come up with a better idea or it will mean little to foreigners

 

Give them the right to own a house not multiple houses but one house Create stability  in Thailand with home ownership Once idea is have Foreigners pay double tax on home ownership What a way to increase Federal Coffers, Also rule that foreigners who buy a house must sell to a Thai once they want to sell

That will help hold the price down  and not create crazy prices

 

There are so many ways you can improve on the welcoming foreigners to Thailand The current system does not and they will go where they are welcome  

[Biker Boy]

I just don't get what the thai are so afraid of. do they actually think the whole world wants to buy property in Thailand. at any time only 8% of Americans have a passport. they really could not give a rats ass about Thailand. While Thailand is a nice country, the world is full of nice countries, that are much better managed, have a plethora of culture, are leader in intellectual property etc, etc.  They thai really need to get real. it is a nice country. the thia used to be known for their smiles and welcome attitude. That is greatly diminished.

 

a few weeks ago I landed a Don Mueng airport. I had to wait 2 hours in line to be processed through immigration with legions of other travelers.  That is thai incompetence on display for the world to witness. do they actually think visitors will rush back with that kind of rude treatment. by comparison, I landed in Singapore and immigration was impeccably organized and quick. In Kuala Lumpur immigration was even  faster and not stupid paper card were needed to be filled in. Surprisingly, Phnom Penh was also, organized and efficient and the new airport was excellent related to fit and finish.

 

Now, Singapore has property  leases and if one considers that Singapore is a small island and the government owns 80% of the land and enables an ongoing growing population do to immigration requirements to keep the economy going. Their policy makes total logical sense. Singapore also has brilliant leadership dedicated to doing the best for the entire country. Malaysia allows foreigners to buy one home outright, no land bullshit, and own one business outright. Malaysia is far more developed that Thailand and I  found the population to exceed the friendliness and helpfulness of even the old Thailand. Also, the KL transport system in way ahead of Bangkok. In face they  had 5 free bus lines and the lines did not include a lot of old ratty buss like you can find in BKK.  only realistic reason for the thia land  policy is lack of logic and knowhow.  If a rich thai, read policy makers, go to other countries they buy anything they want and give it no thought, but come to Thailand and the attitude is it is our land and hands off. The policy mimics that of children having never learned how to play together. It is a sad indicator on a country that can and used to be so much more.

[BernieOnTour]

I assume, the majority of ThaiVisa members won't be affected by this new rule in any way...

 

It is for: "special economic zones of the Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC)" and the intention is to attract investors in these zones, who are then also allowed to set up 90 year leases for residential housing near those factories.

 

Welcome China !   ;-)