Vegetarian Festival 2017?

[bubba]

Yes, I have had some servers at restaurants who were Burmese and even Vietnamese and a few Filipinos. I do not know whether they can read Thai, but there is always someone there who can. Anyway, probably easier to try that than providing Thai spelled in phonetic symbols to a visitor who cannot speak Thai and expect him to read that and be understood by said Burmese food workers.

[Skeptic7]

Been a vegan for 27 years and Thailand is the most accommodating (India too) in my extensive travels throughout Asia and Europe. Even better if one speaks Thai (or has someone who can explain).

 

Most restaurants and even some street food vendors can make curries (geng), vegetable fried rice, som tam and phad Thai..."Jae". Tell them no egg and no fish sauce. They can substitute soy sauce for fish sauce and tofu for egg or meat...or just leave it out. 

 

Plenty of quality veg restaurants in the bigger cities and a surprising number of jae food stalls even in smaller towns. Many food courts have Veg Food Stalls. In BKK...MBK, Terminal 21, Platinum and even the Food Court at Chaeng Wattana Gov't Building have veg food!

 

The Happy Cow App and Trip Advisor are must haves for vegans/vegetarians! 

[dirtypierre]

I noticed in one of the posts somebody included Oyster Sauce as a product to be avoided if vegan.
To the contrary it's not made from sea oysters but rather Oyster Mushrooms and it is a vegan friendly sauce to be used.

[abab]

4 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Been a vegan for 27 years and Thailand is the most accommodating (India too) in my extensive travels throughout Asia and Europe. Even better if one speaks Thai (or has someone who can explain).

 

Most restaurants and even some street food vendors can make curries (geng), vegetable fried rice, som tam and phad Thai..."Jae". Tell them no egg and no fish sauce. They can substitute soy sauce for fish sauce and tofu for egg or meat...or just leave it out. 

 

Plenty of quality veg restaurants in the bigger cities and a surprising number of jae food stalls even in smaller towns. Many food courts have Veg Food Stalls. In BKK...MBK, Terminal 21, Platinum and even the Food Court at Chaeng Wattana Gov't Building have veg food!

 

The Happy Cow App and Trip Advisor are must haves for vegans/vegetarians! 

 

 

Yes, street food sellers are the ones that you should trust the most ! It's obvious !

 

 

:-)

 

 

 

[Oxx]

5 hours ago, dirtypierre said:

I noticed in one of the posts somebody included Oyster Sauce as a product to be avoided if vegan.
To the contrary it's not made from sea oysters but rather Oyster Mushrooms and it is a vegan friendly sauce to be used.

 

Wrong.  Oyster sauce does not contain mushrooms of any kind; it does contain oyster extract and is definitely not suitable for vegans.

 

Here's the ingredients list for one brand:  Water, Sugar, Salt, Malted Barley Extract, Cornflour, Oyster Extract (1.5%), Oyster Extract contains: Tapioca Starch, Oyster Extract (Mollusc), Salt, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavouring (Rosemary Extract).

[grollies]

On 28/04/2017 at 3:07 AM, swissie said:

Clearly, If anyone of the above posters would ever have lived in an agricultural area in Thailand for an extended period of time, would be aware of the fact that the liberal and uncontrolled application of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides has reached a stage, where imported vegetables from Thailand (sold in Thai-Food Stores in Europe) after standart laboratory analysis, are often times not considered "fit for human consumption" due to massive "Chemical Contamination".

- So, after having flown halfway accross the globe: Enjoy your veggie-orgie in Thailand ! Bon appetit !
Cheers.

So true, pesticide and herbicide contamination is rife here. So I'm getting up to speed on home grown fruit & veg, fish, chicken, duck, goose. Bake my own bread.

 

Talking to a knowlegeable chap the other day who reckons soft fruit is the worst, strawberries, etc as it penetrates the fruit flesh.

 

There's no such thing as 'organic' here, you can grow it yourself and still be oversprayed by the neighbours.

[JimmyJ]

11 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Been a vegan for 27 years and Thailand is the most accommodating (India too) in my extensive travels throughout Asia and Europe. Even better if one speaks Thai (or has someone who can explain).

 

Most restaurants and even some street food vendors can make curries (geng), vegetable fried rice, som tam and phad Thai..."Jae". Tell them no egg and no fish sauce. They can substitute soy sauce for fish sauce and tofu for egg or meat...or just leave it out. 

 

Plenty of quality veg restaurants in the bigger cities and a surprising number of jae food stalls even in smaller towns. Many food courts have Veg Food Stalls. In BKK...MBK, Terminal 21, Platinum and even the Food Court at Chaeng Wattana Gov't Building have veg food!

 

The Happy Cow App and Trip Advisor are must haves for vegans/vegetarians! 

"Been a vegan for 27 years and Thailand is the most accommodating (India too) in my extensive travels throughout Asia and Europe. Even better if one speaks Thai (or has someone who can explain)."

 

Good news (and what I was expecting).

 

What is your experience in other Asian countries?

 

My impression from reading guide books is that it will be difficult in Cambodia/Laos/Vietnam except perhaps for a few spots in the largest cities. And I'm slowly working on speaking Thai but know nothing of any other Asian languages.

The Happy Cow is great, and will add the Trip Advisor app now - added many apps for Thai travel yesterday but forgot about that one.

Also will look thru the Happy Cow app tonight and see what it has for the neighboring countries to Thailand to get an idea - but very interested also in your experiences.

 

 

 

[Oxx]

12 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Most restaurants and even some street food vendors can make curries (geng), vegetable fried rice, som tam and phad Thai..."Jae". Tell them no egg and no fish sauce. They can substitute soy sauce for fish sauce and tofu for egg or meat...or just leave it out. 

 

If you're very strict, you should be aware that the curry pastes used to make curries very often contain shrimp paste.

 

With som tam Thai I usually say mây sày kûŋ hɛ̂ŋ (don't add dried shrimp) to make it vegan.  However, there are lots of som tam variants that don't usually include dried shrimp, such as sweetcorn and as mixed fruit.

 

One needs to be a bit careful with tofu, making sure it's not egg tofu or fish tofu.

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

 

What is your experience in other Asian countries?

 

My impression from reading guide books is that it will be difficult in Cambodia/Laos/Vietnam except perhaps for a few spots in the largest cities. 

 

 

 

China is doable, IF you have it written down. Always best to have someone write it down for you in explicit detail. Food in The Philippines sux even for non vegetarians, but at least many there speak English. As for the 3 countries you mentioned above...correct, not as available as here. Again, always inquire with a local who speaks English and have them write a detailed note to show when ordering.

 

While Oxx is correct about having to be extremely cautious about ingredients...can't over think it too much. Can only do the best you can with what resources one has. I can smell and taste fish, shrimp and fish sauce in the smallest amounts and have thrown or given away food that has trace amounts over the years even here in Thailand. Also a fave restaurant in BKK that makes all kinds of jae dishes for me...I occasionally find a tiny piece of moo or gai in my rice soup. I just remove the piece of offensive flesh and finish my meal. Doesn't happen often, but when dining in places that don't have strictly jae kitchens, gonna happen sometime. Have a friend that ONLY dines at places with strict jae kitchens!

[Katia]

On 4/28/2017 at 6:40 PM, JimmyJ said:

 

Thanks.

 

I've misused the term then - my Thai restaurant for the last 10 years or so will cook on request "variants of Thai dishes without animal protein (usually substituting with tofu)" and will also make it without animal products. So it's the deliciously spiced Thai food but vegan.

On the order ticket they write "J" but I didn't realize that classicly that means something else.

 

I find that vendors often seem to understand "jay" in a Western context-- some seem to get the idea that I don't want animal products, but spices are okay.

 

 

13 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Wrong.  Oyster sauce does not contain mushrooms of any kind; it does contain oyster extract and is definitely not suitable for vegans.

 

Here's the ingredients list for one brand:  Water, Sugar, Salt, Malted Barley Extract, Cornflour, Oyster Extract (1.5%), Oyster Extract contains: Tapioca Starch, Oyster Extract (Mollusc), Salt, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavouring (Rosemary Extract).

Precisely.  There *is* a "vegetarian oyster sauce" made with mushrooms, but oyster sauce itself does contain oysters.

[bubba]

2 minutes ago, Katia said:

 

I find that vendors often seem to understand "jay" in a Western context-- some seem to get the idea that I don't want animal products, but spices are okay.

 

 

Well of course spices are OK for vegan meals. Spices are vegetables, not animal products. Am I misunderstanding something or are you saying that vegan meals should not have spices? I think maybe airlines think that, as this would explain why their vegetarian meals always taste like flavourless cardboard.

[Katia]

Just now, bubba said:

Well of course spices are OK for vegan meals. Spices are vegetables, not animal products. Am I misunderstanding something or are you saying that vegan meals should not have spices? I think maybe airlines think that, as this would explain why their vegetarian meals always taste like flavourless cardboard.

No.  We are discussing "jay" food as it is defined in Thailand (which is actually a religious thing; read back in the thread).  It contains no animal products and no strong flavors such as garlic, onions, chili, etc.  However, the word is used by many vegetarians to describe how they eat because the word for "vegetarian" (mangsawirat), as I understand it, does not exclude products such as fish sauce, so "jay" gets the idea across better without having to list "no meat, no seafood, no fish sauce, no shrimp, no shrimp paste," etc.  There are, however, as I said, vendors who seem to understand the distinction and how Westerners sometimes use this word, and cook accordingly-- with no animal products, but with the full range of spices.

[bubba]

I think you are confusing the practice of food during the vegetarian festival (thetsakan kin jae เทศกาลกินเจ),which does not allow strong flavours, with mangsawirat. Mangsawirat does not exclude spices or chilis. Just have a look at this site: https://www.mangsawirat.com

 

"Jae" means vegetarian. It does not exclude spices or chilis, as is obvious if you have visited many restaurants with a "jae" sign out front.

 

 

[Katia]

17 hours ago, bubba said:

I think you are confusing the practice of food during the vegetarian festival (thetsakan kin jae เทศกาลกินเจ),which does not allow strong flavours, with mangsawirat. Mangsawirat does not exclude spices or chilis. Just have a look at this site: https://www.mangsawirat.com

 

"Jae" means vegetarian. It does not exclude spices or chilis, as is obvious if you have visited many restaurants with a "jae" sign out front.

 

 

My understanding is that "mangsawirat" excludes chunks of meat, but not things like shrimp paste and fish sauce... so it is not a suitable word for most vegetarians to use to get the point across that no animal products whatsoever are acceptable (unless they are actually pescatarians).  Whereas "jay" strictly means "vegan" in the religious sense-- which, unfortunately, does mean no strong flavors, but at least should mean no surprise animal-derived ingredients.  Hence my iteration that in some cases, I can say "jay" but what the vendor understands is that I *mean* "Western vegetarian" rather than strict "jay."

[Felt 35]

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, keeniau96 said:

The Vegetarian festival in 2017 is 20-28 Oct. The festival originated in Phuket and is really the place to be if you have a major interest in such. Not really much extra tourism or hassle during that time, per my 14 years here in Phuket, living close to one of the major shrines for it.

Hassle, no not if you dont consider that Phuket town is locked down and on a standstill during the festival

[eve55]

I don't know, but I am a supporter of vegetarianism.

[Naam]

i'm a supporter of steaks, pork roast, lamb chops, shrimps, prawns and fish

[Dumbastheycome]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

i'm a supporter of steaks, pork roast, lamb chops, shrimps, prawns and fish

With  a side  salad? 

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, Naam said:

i'm a supporter of steaks, pork roast, lamb chops, shrimps, prawns and fish

How is your post in any way relevant to this thread/topic?  

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

How is your post in any way relevant to this thread/topic?  

Quote

eve 55 said

I am a supporter of vegetarianism.

 

[Damrongsak]

On 4/27/2017 at 4:07 PM, swissie said:

Clearly, If anyone of the above posters would ever have lived in an agricultural area in Thailand for an extended period of time, would be aware of the fact that the liberal and uncontrolled application of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides has reached a stage, where imported vegetables from Thailand (sold in Thai-Food Stores in Europe) after standart laboratory analysis, are often times not considered "fit for human consumption" due to massive "Chemical Contamination". ...

I was an ag volunteer in the Peace Corps from 1977-1979.  My Thai advisor told me that when he found out I was vegetarian.  I've seen misuse of pesticides first-hand.  Wan't there a foreign tourist who died from picking up insecticide from walking barefoot in a hotel room?

 

I used to specifically order food - no pork oil, no fish sauce, no meat or fish broth, etc.  Some people got it, others had difficulty understanding. 

 

Chiang Mai veggie site, with list of restaurants throughout LOS and reviews:  http://www.veggieinchiangmai.com/vege-in-thai-language

Edited May 2, 2017 by Damrongsak

[ChrisMatthews]

Thanks for sharing this information.

[Krupnik]

On 5/2/2017 at 10:34 PM, Damrongsak said:

I was an ag volunteer in the Peace Corps from 1977-1979.  My Thai advisor told me that when he found out I was vegetarian.  I've seen misuse of pesticides first-hand.  Wan't there a foreign tourist who died from picking up insecticide from walking barefoot in a hotel room?

 

I used to specifically order food - no pork oil, no fish sauce, no meat or fish broth, etc.  Some people got it, others had difficulty understanding. 

 

Chiang Mai veggie site, with list of restaurants throughout LOS and reviews:  http://www.veggieinchiangmai.com/vege-in-thai-language

Thanks for recommending my website! :) I hope it is useful. 

[Oxx]

47 minutes ago, Krupnik said:

Thanks for recommending my website! :) I hope it is useful. 

 

In this context it's not, and it's not to be trusted.  Ignoring the point that the author doesn't know that jae food is of Chinese Taoist origin, not Thai Buddhist:

 

(1) "Almost every restaurant in Thailand will be able to serve you genuine jey food" is completely wrong.  Jae food requires separate cooking utensils, and is only served in jae restaurants.  A few restaurants swap out all their cooking utensils for the jae festivals, but for most it's not economically viable.  Only permanent jae restaurants are likely to serve jae food.  They are few and far between.

 

(2) Fried mixed vegetables is not jae in normal restaurants.  It's almost invariably prepared with oyster sauce, and often with fish sauce, too.

[Speedo1968]

On 4/29/2017 at 9:10 AM, grollies said:

So true, pesticide and herbicide contamination is rife here. So I'm getting up to speed on home grown fruit & veg, fish, chicken, duck, goose. Bake my own bread.

 

Talking to a knowlegeable chap the other day who reckons soft fruit is the worst, strawberries, etc as it penetrates the fruit flesh.

 

There's no such thing as 'organic' here, you can grow it yourself and still be oversprayed by the neighbours.

Now in my 70's and as a vegetarian since the early 70's and a vegan for the past 30 years, I have found it harder and harder to find "Real" vegetarian or Jae ( vegan ) foods, except in countries like India.

 

Even products such as 100% soy milk or soy milk have contained up to 2% milk.   With one major brand they finally removed any non soy products and changed the labeling to show it was Non - dairy.   The label  also shows it to be Free from gluten ( wheat ) and egg. 

 

I have been in farming since 1961 and would also advise people of the risks of drug residues ( including antibiotics ) in meat products, whether or not the livestock are grown on large commercial farms or small local farms.     

There are set withdrawl periods for medication before the livestock can go for slaughter.   

Often an infection happens in the last 2 weeks of grow out and farmers give medicines to try stop or control losses.

As an instance I dealt with a major supplier of meat in this country for many years, over 3,000 of the farms that supplied that company were small / very small contract farms.   To say all of them followed the strict guidelines would be a bit of a fib.

 

I live near a small country town in Thailand, many different places to eat, only 4 places I can eat that understand no animal product, no MSG.   A 5th place 9 times out of 10 will put meat or egg with a dish even when asked for by a Thai person.   I don't expect them to clean out the pots and pans for my food just wipe clean as usual.   As for using separate pots etc. it seems to be mainly Jaes' who follow Krishna's teachings that insist on this ( they also do not any "hot" products including mushrooms.

[Oxx]

11 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Even products such as 100% soy milk or soy milk have contained up to 2% milk.

 

I find that very hard to believe.  And Googling doesn't provide any corroborating evidence.  Why do you believe this?

 

13 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

As for using separate pots etc. it seems to be mainly Jaes' who follow Krishna's teachings that insist on this ( they also do not any "hot" products including mushrooms.

 

I suspect "Jaes" should be "Jains".  Jains, however, don't follow Krishna's teachings.  They have their own philosophy.  They are against all violence to animals, and so their monks/nuns don't eat any root vegetables because of the insects harmed when digging them up.  Similar reasoning is used for not eating mushrooms.

 

What you describe as "hot" products probably refers to "tamasic" food in Ayurveda.  Tamasic foods have a sedative effect on the mind and body and are avoided because they interfere with meditation.

 

 

[dpdp]

23 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Now in my 70's and as a vegetarian since the early 70's and a vegan for the past 30 years, I have found it harder and harder to find "Real" vegetarian or Jae ( vegan ) foods, except in countries like India.

 

Even products such as 100% soy milk or soy milk have contained up to 2% milk.   With one major brand they finally removed any non soy products and changed the labeling to show it was Non - dairy.   The label  also shows it to be Free from gluten ( wheat ) and egg. 

 

I have been in farming since 1961 and would also advise people of the risks of drug residues ( including antibiotics ) in meat products, whether or not the livestock are grown on large commercial farms or small local farms.     

There are set withdrawl periods for medication before the livestock can go for slaughter.   

Often an infection happens in the last 2 weeks of grow out and farmers give medicines to try stop or control losses.

As an instance I dealt with a major supplier of meat in this country for many years, over 3,000 of the farms that supplied that company were small / very small contract farms.   To say all of them followed the strict guidelines would be a bit of a fib.

 

I live near a small country town in Thailand, many different places to eat, only 4 places I can eat that understand no animal product, no MSG.   A 5th place 9 times out of 10 will put meat or egg with a dish even when asked for by a Thai person.   I don't expect them to clean out the pots and pans for my food just wipe clean as usual.   As for using separate pots etc. it seems to be mainly Jaes' who follow Krishna's teachings that insist on this ( they also do not any "hot" products including mushrooms.

 

 

It's good when vegetarians are not too picky. These people will never understand that by being too extreme then do not inspire respect.

I am a vegetarian and find vegan people mostly boring and even sometimes stupid extreme people.

They just deserve the teasing and all jokes that they receive.

 

 

 

[Oxx]

2 minutes ago, dpdp said:

It's good when vegetarians are not too picky. These people will never understand that by being too extreme then do not inspire respect.

 

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of vegetarians isn't so because they want to "inspire respect".

[bubba]

6 minutes ago, dpdp said:

 

 

It's good when vegetarians are not too picky. These people will never understand that by being too extreme then do not inspire respect.

I am a vegetarian and find vegan people mostly boring and even sometimes stupid extreme people.

They just deserve the teasing and all jokes that they receive.

 

 

 

Well, I am one of "those people" who prefers to eat vegetarian. Personally, I have never found a person's dietary preferences to be a determiner of their intelligence or whether they should be an object of ridicule. Conversely, I can see how a person who takes such a view could be considered shallow and boorish.

[Speedo1968]

39 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

I find that very hard to believe.  And Googling doesn't provide any corroborating evidence.  Why do you believe this?

 

 

I suspect "Jaes" should be "Jains".  Jains, however, don't follow Krishna's teachings.  They have their own philosophy.  They are against all violence to animals, and so their monks/nuns don't eat any root vegetables because of the insects harmed when digging them up.  Similar reasoning is used for not eating mushrooms.

 

What you describe as "hot" products probably refers to "tamasic" food in Ayurveda.  Tamasic foods have a sedative effect on the mind and body and are avoided because they interfere with meditation.

 

 

Thank you for your interesting comments.

Yes, I guess the link between Krishna and Jain's is the non-violence.

 

I had thought that mushroom was a hot food but it is a cooling one even in Traditional Qi teachings

 

The Lactasoy Blue Original contains 2% whole milk powder as does the Chocolate version.