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swissie

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How do Expats see their future in Thailand?


Like:
- What is likely to improve the live of individual Expats in coming years?
- What is likely to worsen  the live of individual Expats in coming years?
Can include economical, political, cultural and even private factors.
In short: How do expats see their future in Thailand (mid to long term)?


Please, Expats only! Occasional visitors to Thailand are not invited to post here. Non-compliance will be rewarded with a serious flogging at the Airport upon their next entry to Thailand!
Cheers.

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Improve:

Granddaughter (rattling my nerves) will leave the house next year :smile:

State pension due in 3 years, drain on savings close to zero.

 

Worsen:

Company pension since this month, fixed Euro(!) amount, no increase.

Seemingly unstoppable price hike for imported deli.

Old bones getting tired.

Tourist herds spoiling my interest in travel.

More and more traffic. No more fun in driving.

 

Uncertain:

Politically all is good that does not end in bloodshed (or forced exodus).

Euro.

 

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Been here nearly 11 years.  Travelled far and wide throughout the country.  I see the xenophobia getting progressively worse during that period to a point now of being simply unacceptable, and the level of mindless violence akin to British and European football hooligans of the early seventies now prevalent everywhere (if you care to look outside of the expat elite bubble).  The minimum wage hike of 50% (200 baht to 300 baht) is filtering through to the rural community whose jobs have been priced out of the market and now have no work.  A substantial amount of Bangkok workers are retuning to the provinces in droves also because of no more work in the city - jobs disappeared due to the ridiculous unsustainable minimum wage hike.  This past year has seen over half of my local Village area tree's felled for more land to grow crops just so that these folk can eat.  The wood turned to new wooden shacks for more accommodation for the returnees, next to the crops, and the waste wood converted to charcoal.  The smoke pollution this past year has had a significantly adverse effect on all our family health.  99% of the rural community depend on Govt handouts in one form or another.  I don't know one family whose household debt is seeming unsustainable; poor buggahs have it secured against Land Title Deeds.  When the Elite come calling to be paid things might get tricky!  The level of poverty is starting to look like south Asia/Africa in many rural areas.  I have substantive experience of both.

 

My wife is a Thai Govt teacher in English of young adults; she see's the level of educational standard getting worse not better as promised by the ASEAN initiatives which, I believe, will leave Thailand bringing up the rear.

 

The strong Baht will prove a disaster sooner rather than later IMO.  Once reality sets in they will try their hardest to turn the super-tanker on a sixpence, but years will be needed to correct a grossly over-valued currency.  I guess it all depends on whether you believe the unemployment figures, GDP, and the balance of payments.... I don't! 

 

The value of the £ against the baht is killing all Brits I would suggest.

 

How do I see it.  A dire situation to be honest which I believe will come to a head sooner or later and the outcome politically cannot possibly be seen as rosey.  I am returning to UK at the end of this month with my family as a result and leaving behind a Baht 3m property I built myself, on my wife's land, as I have no chance of selling it.  It is my son's inheritance so no axe to grind there.  He will have a million more opportunities in life with a British education, even if UK are having to deal with there own set of problems.  My wife agrees with me..... clearly.

 

Good luck to all long-termers and I wish you well.

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I should add that I have been married 7 years on an Annual Extension for those 7 years.  7 years of annual stress of not knowing if I can remain, and reporting every 90 days has taken its toll, of course.  I won't dwell on the well rehearsed points........

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if you compare Thailand with other places, it still the best place to retire.. "I don't mean places like Pattaya or Phuket. I've been here long time and I and I wouldn't live anywhere else. We did leave Thailand about 20 years ago and  emigrated to Australia. We stayed about three years it was very disappointing , so we returned to Thailand. It does also matter where you live in Thailand has some nice places.  Where we live now there are about 200 expats, Nice beach, good food and very friendly Thais.

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What might improve the experience for some might be the simple understanding that we live in a different culture and what that means. 

 

As for me personally, I will choose the rose colored glasses and choose to enjoy the privilege of living here. 

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2 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Well I feel honored to be the first post. Cloudy with small rays of sunshine. The odd earthquake. Trying to figure out this government and whats in store for us expats is like playing a game of snakes and ladders. 

Not just the government, all the bosses and people who work in Immigration offices, banks, police, schools, hospitals etc, have the power to do what they like and make up their own rules, and we never know what's coming next, until it comes.

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When you come from the glorious socialist paradise that is Zimbabwe, or the soon-to-be similar sinkhole that is South Africa: believe me, Thailand is great...

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1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Crematorium

Right. Reasonably content with things as they are. I don't foresee that those things that have an impact on my life will improve or worsen to any notable degree as far as Thailand is concerned. Everything significant has remained mostly unchanged for me here for over a decade of full-time residence. I know there are those who whine incessantly about how unloved and threatened they feel here, but that seems to be less to do with Thailand changing and more to do with the mental state of the whiners.

 

On a more personal level I assume the slings and arrows of outrageous decrepitude will continue to have their way with me just as they would wherever I happened to be living,   eventually resulting in me taking up either subterranean residence or in an urn in a niche. With my luck, my urn or burial plot will be next to one of the whiners who will carry on moaning post mortem. 

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1 hour ago, gamini said:

if you compare Thailand with other places, it still the best place to retire.. "I don't mean places like Pattaya or Phuket. I've been here long time and I and I wouldn't live anywhere else. We did leave Thailand about 20 years ago and  emigrated to Australia. We stayed about three years it was very disappointing , so we returned to Thailand. It does also matter where you live in Thailand has some nice places.  Where we live now there are about 200 expats, Nice beach, good food and very friendly Thais.

I live in Chiangmai and before I came here I looked at Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, NZ, even Bali. 7 years ago I came to Thailand and never regrettedmy decision. Yes Thailand has its problems but you can say that for every other country. 

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My partner and I have been here in Pattaya almost 7 years and it has largely been a positive experience.  We have no plans to move to another country--or another city in Thailand.  With my small USA pension and Social Security, we live much better here than we would in America.   We don't go to Walking Street, Soi 6, or the like and we find that Pattaya, otherwise,  has plenty of the same things that we needed and used in the small city we were at in the US--malls, grocery stores, neighborhood shopping centers, restaurants, movie theaters, hospitals, home improvement stores, and so on.  We do the same sort of socializing with friends here that we did in the US.  In reality, our day to day life here isn't that different than what it would be were we still living in the US--except that we eat out a lot more here, do more outdoor activities such as swimming year-round,  and we live in a condo with a killer ocean view.  As I get older I appreciate being able to walk into a hospital here without an appointment and after usually just a short wait I'm seeing a doctor--and at a fraction of the cost.  I've been satisfied with the health care, dental care, eye care, etc. that I have received so far.  We lived near an international airport in the US and it's great to be only 1.5 hours from one here as we enjoy taking trips and Bangkok makes a nice hub to get to a lot of places in Asia and the rest of the World.  Pattaya's not perfect; no place is, and I often complain about things like the sidewalks--but we are pretty content.

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As I see it, ex-pats who stay will need to accommodate a changing mindset and general dumbing-down of Thais  due to the extremely inadequate educational malaise and moronic TV programming. City dwellers will be marooned in Islands of ever growing jealousy and malice behind the unlearned smiles. These are the most dangerous places in the not too distant future because of the lack of communal restraints that accompany anonymity. So beware! I say this because the Thai male is becoming increasingly ostracized in his own land by policies and personal inadequacies that prevent the genuine ascendance of dignity to hold dominion in his heart. Traditional ways are becoming hollow rituals without the moral meaning and guidance they once held, which means the fabric of this society is  degenerating due to the above cited programming and inadequate education. Thus, the gang mentality under top-dog administration will prevail at street levels once the present 70+ year-old generation dies off.

 

This being said, the constructive thing to do is to learn some Thai, not make enemies, stay close to traditionally strong families, do not offend folks in authority, and do not rely on the 'gated community' mindset. Those days are coming to an end, except for the privileged few who really don't deserve them.

 

Expats are dealing with a new generation of Thais that have been distanced from the ancient moral patterning that gave them the authentic 'land-of-smiles' folk-soul that withstood their enemies. Now one sees desperation everywhere, disguised by empty outward forms. My wife (of >10 years) and I live in a semi-rural setting. At her  prompting we just put iron bars on all points of entry because she 'cannot trust' the community not to produce some thieving jerk who will knock me on the head just because I am white and we have what he/she will never get. Not only that, but the number of widowed/divorced & single women who would scheme just to compromise me for some form of traditional pay-off is substantial.

 

I do not overly concern myself with worry over these matters, but I do note them and take them to heart. Nonetheless, I prefer living here and doing what one should intelligently do to maintain civilized boundaries and restraints. For that matter, I make it a point to let everyone know that we maintain good relations with local police, communal chiefs, government officials and immigration officers, etc. I attend weddings, and all funeral with due respect, and go to Temple on all special occasions. My wife is also a highly respected retired teacher who knows (taught or taught with) most of the elders, middle aged parents and their children. For the unintelligent, I highly recommenced Pataya and another drink.

 

All the best.

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The environment will be absolutely terrible in 20 years. There are no plans to do anything about it. The TAT want 60 million tourists by 2030 and if they get anywhere near that goal there will be nothing left. 

 

The people in tucked away areas they think are secret now will see a big influx of people and development as people look for the next best places. With the internet these days nothing stays secret now. 

 

So people living here are going to find it harder and harder to find that little get away to paradise they always enjoyed in the past.

 

Prices will continue to rise. In twenty years with tax increases wine will be minimum 1,200 Baht per bottle (Jacob's Creek) and Chang will be 120 Baht a bottle at 7/11. Cigarettes will be 250 Baht a pack.

 

This could be positive or negative depending on the poster but places like Nana, Cowboy, Soi Twilight and many others will be distant memories as shopping malls replace them due to land prices and demand.

 

The traffic will be increasingly terrible even in towns you have never heard of. I just don't see how this wouldn't be the case. If Thailand ever gets the seat belt laws and limit amounts of passengers in trucks they will need substantially more cars on the road to accomplish this.

 

The price of wood will be astronomical. This happened where I lived in Laos you can cut for a long time but sooner or later there is nothing left. Wood prices have climbed to triple the price they were 10 years ago and will continue that trend. Especially with Viet Nam, China and others vying for their share of it.

 

Isaan will see it's first nuclear power plant come online somewhere around Ubon. 

 

A lot of the current older ex pats will no longer be with us so I am wondering if new people are moving in enough numbers to replace them or if the ex pat population of Farang will shrink. If the numbers shrink many comfort items Farang like will go up in price as the scale of economy in importing them become less favorable. 

 

The visa game will get continually tougher to play. The million Baht in the bank with health insurance visa talked about will come online in the next few years. If you don't have that the new minimum monthly will be 100,000 Baht a month as was discussed.

 

Thailand will begin to resemble more of a newly industrialized country and be more similar to something like South Korea. 

 

These are of course just some predictions and not necessarily how it will go. I am not advocating any of this happens so don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

 

Edited by anotheruser
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3 hours ago, iancnx said:

Been here nearly 11 years.  Travelled far and wide throughout the country.  I see the xenophobia getting progressively worse during that period to a point now of being simply unacceptable, and the level of mindless violence akin to British and European football hooligans of the early seventies now prevalent everywhere (if you care to look outside of the expat elite bubble).  The minimum wage hike of 50% (200 baht to 300 baht) is filtering through to the rural community whose jobs have been priced out of the market and now have no work.  A substantial amount of Bangkok workers are retuning to the provinces in droves also because of no more work in the city - jobs disappeared due to the ridiculous unsustainable minimum wage hike.  This past year has seen over half of my local Village area tree's felled for more land to grow crops just so that these folk can eat.  The wood turned to new wooden shacks for more accommodation for the returnees, next to the crops, and the waste wood converted to charcoal.  The smoke pollution this past year has had a significantly adverse effect on all our family health.  99% of the rural community depend on Govt handouts in one form or another.  I don't know one family whose household debt is seeming unsustainable; poor buggahs have it secured against Land Title Deeds.  When the Elite come calling to be paid things might get tricky!  The level of poverty is starting to look like south Asia/Africa in many rural areas.  I have substantive experience of both.

 

My wife is a Thai Govt teacher in English of young adults; she see's the level of educational standard getting worse not better as promised by the ASEAN initiatives which, I believe, will leave Thailand bringing up the rear.

 

The strong Baht will prove a disaster sooner rather than later IMO.  Once reality sets in they will try their hardest to turn the super-tanker on a sixpence, but years will be needed to correct a grossly over-valued currency.  I guess it all depends on whether you believe the unemployment figures, GDP, and the balance of payments.... I don't! 

 

The value of the £ against the baht is killing all Brits I would suggest.

 

How do I see it.  A dire situation to be honest which I believe will come to a head sooner or later and the outcome politically cannot possibly be seen as rosey.  I am returning to UK at the end of this month with my family as a result and leaving behind a Baht 3m property I built myself, on my wife's land, as I have no chance of selling it.  It is my son's inheritance so no axe to grind there.  He will have a million more opportunities in life with a British education, even if UK are having to deal with there own set of problems.  My wife agrees with me..... clearly.

 

Good luck to all long-termers and I wish you well.

GL on the move back to the UK .......

            We are doing the opposite :)) Its been a nightmare in the UK for us since we returned 2012. Its work, work and pay bills (expensive)with the weather wet & windy all the time leaving my daughter not able to get outside to play alot of the time and no fun for mum & dad either. Oh yes and whatever you do dont get sick in the UK because its a nightmare to see a doc or get care.

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16 minutes ago, OmarZaid said:

general dumbing-down of Thais  due to the extremely inadequate educational malaise and moronic TV programming.

In those respects, the US and UK have managed to mismanage education on offer for ages and the spawn of people living in those countries have been rendered zombies with the constant bombardment of TV, movies, video games and the like all targeted at audiences of knuckle draggers.  One of the reasons so many Asians have been recruited to those countries to deal with anything technical and to fill universities' post-graduate programs in STEM (sciences, technology, engineering and mathematics) is the consequence of dumbing down the native populations. 

 

But then the number of farang retirees able to afford to come to places like Thailand for their post employment lives will likely be greatly reduced over time as the notion of pensioned income from age 65 will be a thing of the past and the farang middle classes will be lucky to be able to feed & accommodate themselves at home let alone travel abroad.

 

 

Quote

 

For all the money and time and effort thrown into luring more Americans toward science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM, it seems more of the workforce may be coming from overseas.

The number of U.S. citizens and permanent residents earning graduate degrees in science and engineering fell 5 percent in 2014 from its peak in 2008. At the same time, the number of students on temporary visas earning the same degrees soared by 35 percent, according to survey data collected by the National Science Foundation and National Institutes of Health.

...

It's also perhaps indicative of a leak in the so-called STEM pipeline – one that's not at the graduate level, but instead far earlier, perhaps when students are still in elementary school

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-17/more-stem-degrees-going-to-foreign-students

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After all I learned in the LOS...

"No possible health insurance at a normal price.  No land nor house.  Have to report every 90 days.  Pay 10-fold to access natural parks.

Avoiding to be ripped off all the time.  Face corruption at all levells.  Driving amongst idiots . " ... Still can live with it BUT I will never invest 1 Baht in this system/country...if they continue these ways....Why should I?  ....However, "Always look at the bright side of life"...

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1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

Now one sees desperation everywhere, disguised by empty outward forms.

empty outward forms? what does that even mean?

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

general dumbing-down of Thais  due to the extremely inadequate educational malaise and moronic TV programming

And this isn't happening everywhere? And has been for a long time - my father berated me for watching tv 60 years ago.. 

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

So beware! I say this because the Thai male is becoming increasingly ostracized in his own land

And then you add: I do not overly concern myself with worry over these matters, but I do note them and take them to heart.

 

You sound very worried... 

 

Omar, where do you see this desperation? I see a society where everyone is clothed, no hunger as the monks will feed everyone and no desperate poverty as exists in the Western World... homeless shelters in NYC alone take in 60,000 a night. People are eating out of garbage pails, living in tent cities all over the USA... I live in the countryside too, and I don't see any of what you mention... I see mostly happy, content people, who do not live in the fears that you seem to have fallen into... You sound like a bright guy, but a bit paranoid... well, more than a bit. 

Maybe get a nice massage somewhere and relax... it is not that bad out there... Never spent the inght but been through Phayao a few times and it looked pleasant enough to me... good luck and try and enjoy yourself... 

Edited by kenk24
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1 hour ago, anotheruser said:

The environment will be absolutely terrible in 20 years. There are no plans to do anything about it. The TAT want 60 million tourists by 2030 and if they get anywhere near that goal there will be nothing left. 

 

The people in tucked away areas they think are secret now will see a big influx of people and development as people look for the next best places. With the internet these days nothing stays secret now. 

 

So people living here are going to find it harder and harder to find that little get away to paradise they always enjoyed in the past.

 

Prices will continue to rise. In twenty years with tax increases wine will be minimum 1,200 Baht per bottle (Jacob's Creek) and Chang will be 120 Baht a bottle at 7/11. Cigarettes will be 250 Baht a pack.

 

This could be positive or negative depending on the poster but places like Nana, Cowboy, Soi Twilight and many others will be distant memories as shopping malls replace them due to land prices and demand.

 

The traffic will be increasingly terrible even in towns you have never heard of. I just don't see how this wouldn't be the case. If Thailand ever gets the seat belt laws and limit amounts of passengers in trucks they will need substantially more cars on the road to accomplish this.

 

The price of wood will be astronomical. This happened where I lived in Laos you can cut for a long time but sooner or later there is nothing left. Wood prices have climbed to triple the price they were 10 years ago and will continue that trend. Especially with Viet Nam, China and others vying for their share of it.

 

Isaan will see it's first nuclear power plant come online somewhere around Ubon. 

 

A lot of the current older ex pats will no longer be with us so I am wondering if new people are moving in enough numbers to replace them or if the ex pat population of Farang will shrink. If the numbers shrink many comfort items Farang like will go up in price as the scale of economy in importing them become less favorable. 

 

The visa game will get continually tougher to play. The million Baht in the bank with health insurance visa talked about will come online in the next few years. If you don't have that the new minimum monthly will be 100,000 Baht a month as was discussed.

 

Thailand will begin to resemble more of a newly industrialized country and be more similar to something like South Korea. 

 

These are of course just some predictions and not necessarily how it will go. I am not advocating any of this happens so don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

 

All boils down to over population... In 1974 Pattaya  was a dusty dirt road with some bungalows... it would have been impossible to imagine then what it is today... your predictions sound more like what I would call likelihoods.. 

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4 hours ago, iancnx said:

Been here nearly 11 years.  Travelled far and wide throughout the country.  I see the xenophobia getting progressively worse during that period to a point now of being simply unacceptable, and the level of mindless violence akin to British and European football hooligans of the early seventies now prevalent everywhere (if you care to look outside of the expat elite bubble).  The minimum wage hike of 50% (200 baht to 300 baht) is filtering through to the rural community whose jobs have been priced out of the market and now have no work.  A substantial amount of Bangkok workers are retuning to the provinces in droves also because of no more work in the city - jobs disappeared due to the ridiculous unsustainable minimum wage hike.  This past year has seen over half of my local Village area tree's felled for more land to grow crops just so that these folk can eat.  The wood turned to new wooden shacks for more accommodation for the returnees, next to the crops, and the waste wood converted to charcoal.  The smoke pollution this past year has had a significantly adverse effect on all our family health.  99% of the rural community depend on Govt handouts in one form or another.  I don't know one family whose household debt is seeming unsustainable; poor buggahs have it secured against Land Title Deeds.  When the Elite come calling to be paid things might get tricky!  The level of poverty is starting to look like south Asia/Africa in many rural areas.  I have substantive experience of both.

 

My wife is a Thai Govt teacher in English of young adults; she see's the level of educational standard getting worse not better as promised by the ASEAN initiatives which, I believe, will leave Thailand bringing up the rear.

 

The strong Baht will prove a disaster sooner rather than later IMO.  Once reality sets in they will try their hardest to turn the super-tanker on a sixpence, but years will be needed to correct a grossly over-valued currency.  I guess it all depends on whether you believe the unemployment figures, GDP, and the balance of payments.... I don't! 

 

The value of the £ against the baht is killing all Brits I would suggest.

 

How do I see it.  A dire situation to be honest which I believe will come to a head sooner or later and the outcome politically cannot possibly be seen as rosey.  I am returning to UK at the end of this month with my family as a result and leaving behind a Baht 3m property I built myself, on my wife's land, as I have no chance of selling it.  It is my son's inheritance so no axe to grind there.  He will have a million more opportunities in life with a British education, even if UK are having to deal with there own set of problems.  My wife agrees with me..... clearly.

 

Good luck to all long-termers and I wish you well.

Terrific read sorry to see a true gentleman leaving now there is only one left me. 

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Well if you do not actually wake up each day with more money than you went to sleep with last night you probably won't be around in 10 years. I don't mean this in a bad way but if your nest egg is going down from living here and your pension is frozen it is hard to see how inflation won't take care of the rest.

 

There are very few Farang over here that earn well inside of Thailand that have this situation. I know there are a few successful business owners and it would be interesting to see them weigh in. 

 

For the people earning well on contracts it really doesn't matter their opinion because they go where the contracts take them. They don't foresee themselves here in 20 years they see themselves being here for 12 months for $200K.

 

I know Don Mega is another person like that who takes the money but would wish it would just end so he could leave. I am in that boat myself. 

 

So this thread should probably be more for the retirees in it for the long term not really "ex pats". 

 

 

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2 hours ago, janpharma said:

After all I learned in the LOS...

"No possible health insurance at a normal price.  No land nor house.  Have to report every 90 days.  Pay 10-fold to access natural parks.

Avoiding to be ripped off all the time.  Face corruption at all levells.  Driving amongst idiots . " ... Still can live with it BUT I will never invest 1 Baht in this system/country...if they continue these ways....Why should I?  ....However, "Always look at the bright side of life"...

There is a lot in what you say, but it just shows you how bad the UK is when so many retirees come to Thailand. There are some bad unfair things here in Thailand, like the 90 day reporting you mention, but the good here still outweighs the bad.

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6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

There is a lot in what you say, but it just shows you how bad the UK is when so many retirees come to Thailand. There are some bad unfair things here in Thailand, like the 90 day reporting you mention, but the good here still outweighs the bad.

 

Well the Brits that hate it back home can always go to Spain or.... oh wait.

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Been here since end of 2005. – oops that's 11½ year now...:whistling:

 

Thailand is changing – it's same place, but different from the past; so don't "live in the past" – in general summin up it's changing to the better, IMHO; and especially compared to what my home country seem to change to, and what my friends back home says. This must mean "improve"

 

The part of LoS I've settled in – because something may be quite local – improve to the better in most ways; however traffic get more intense, so that shall count for negative, i.e. "worsen".

 

Thai inflation has been low recently, so that's positive, and money still lasts; however currency exchange rate has worsen, so that's at present negative, as retirement pension saving and government pension comes from abroad, and cannot be "just moved to" local currency – has moved little of the saving into Thai baht, so that counts positive; actually interest is not bad compared to "home" – so status quo or "little worsen"...

 

Political situation is as it is, and my opinion really don't count at all, and the future is unknown. However, the situation seems fairly stable at the moment, so shall also be counted in the positive points, whilst future is like it is, unknown. As I'm not that good in fortune telling. it'll be neither, nor...

 

Health is still Okay, and I'm able to move around – can walk the soi-dogs that stick around the house, which in my case are beach-dogs – don't forget too much (had to re-read opening post twice only while writing my answer...:thumbsup:), and still get out for an exercise-dance a few evenings a week; so that sums up to count positive also. As I still feel strong and especially young – at least after one Red Bull gives me wings – I'll count it as "improve"...:biggrin:

 

In general extremely happy with my choice – have no desire for returning to where I came from, and don't even miss it for a short holiday trip – and I also have my family here; and that's probably the most positive and improving part...:smile:

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