Britain gears up for negotiations of a "lifetime" after EU outlines Brexit stance

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Don't forget Churchill v Atlee in 1945!!

 

...I'm looking forward to May v Cor-blimey! 

[Orac]

Thatcher fought for what she believed in whereas TM is just doing whatever she can to get control.

[partington]

Imagine getting divorced from 26 people instead of one. Good luck UK.

[Thaiwine]

In a divorce the one with the greater earning potential pays the other one, it seems to me the EU with 500 million citizens has the greater earning potential, so.......

[mommysboy]

16 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I don't think anyone expects the talks to be warm and friendly. There will undoubtedly be serious disagreements on some areas, and I expect each side will be forced to come away with a package that is acceptable, but not what they had really wanted at the outset. Only time will tell if this was good for Britain.

 

I doubt there is any chance of a compromise solution, since any give on either side completely undermines the integrity of their mandate, eg, if UK agrees to open borders then what is the point of leaving in the first place?  If EU agrees to special rights and priveleges then what is the point of being an EU member state given all the attendant costs and duties?

 

 

[Stargeezr]

I just hope that Britain will keep plugging along on its Brexit, and the lady get herself voted in with the majority that she needs. The EU was a bad idea with Britain, Germany and some of the better off countries, having to let  countries like Greece and  such join the Euro club.  Britain will certainly face some tough years ahead  but so will Germany,  France, Spain and the rest of Europe.

Geezer

[soalbundy]

seems a waste of time to me, in 5 years they will be trying to rejoin, the stumbling block then will be them having to give up the pound and take the Euro. They are fighting the big league, countries who can actually produce things that people want to buy. It's all very well saying we import lots from them but that is because we don't produce much ourselves and so we have to buy their goods. Anything produced in the UK is from foreign owned (EU) companies.

[steve187]

20 hours ago, Bannoi said:

The fact is nobody knows for certain what the future holds same goes for the result of the election and no I don't think Corbyn will win outright but there could very well be a coalition if the Tory's don't get an outright majority.

 

Personally I see the Lib Dems gaining the most from this election.

 

I don't feel there should have been an election at all it was obviously because the Tory's were so far ahead in the polls and they thought they could make a killing, Corbyn was wrong to support it but then he has been wrong on a lot of other things as well he does seem to have a knack of putting his foot in it.

 

If Labour had a different leader and promised to halt the exit from the EU until the results of another referendum were known they could very well win there are at least 48% of the electorate that could very well vote for them.

not sure on what planet you are living, but here on planet earth labour don't stand a chance with the hillbilly in charge, never did never will.

as to another referendum, dream on, how many we going to have, we had one at the beginning, we have one at the end. the remoaners will have to live with it, and get on board for the sake of the country.

 

Lib Dems well, they have also lost the plot, maybe they will get some votes from people fed up with the whole thing.

[Nurseynutcase]

8 hours ago, Thaiwine said:

In a divorce the one with the greater earning potential pays the other one, it seems to me the EU with 500 million citizens has the greater earning potential, so.......

I like this post.

May should NOT give any more dosh to the avaricious unelected eurocrats.  She should also ask for an audited and signed off copy of the EU accounts - this will never happen as they have not been certified for over 20 years!!

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

seems a waste of time to me, in 5 years they will be trying to rejoin, the stumbling block then will be them having to give up the pound and take the Euro. They are fighting the big league, countries who can actually produce things that people want to buy. It's all very well saying we import lots from them but that is because we don't produce much ourselves and so we have to buy their goods. Anything produced in the UK is from foreign owned (EU) companies.

Which is it? Us or Them?

(Cue Pink Floyd ?)

[Baerboxer]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:59 AM, i claudius said:

We got off in a nice shiny lifeboat ,in the years to come others will leave clinging to the wreckage ,as For May of course she will win ,who is up against her Corbyn? you havin a laugh , Noddy could beat him .

 

I read that one senior academic I know said that a "pipe dream" would be for all other parties to unite to keep the Tories out; and for the SNP to give up on the second Scottish referendum in exchange for Sturgeon being coalition PM!

 

I kid you not - this guy is a professor and runs a successful consulting business and is a visiting speaker on the international stage. This was his serious suggestion.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Don't forget Churchill v Atlee in 1945!!

 

 

In 1945 many people wanted significant social change following several years of war; just like people did in the 1920"s. 

 

They were tired of the old social hierarchies and of privilege by birthright and money, rather than ability and merit.

 

Now whilst we reject control of the non elected politically appointed foreign bureaucrats we are back peddling on allowing the rich top tier to run the country for their, and only their benefit.

 

But quite frankly, the opposition to the Tories are currently a talentless bunch of tossers.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I read that one senior academic I know said that a "pipe dream" would be for all other parties to unite to keep the Tories out; and for the SNP to give up on the second Scottish referendum in exchange for Sturgeon being coalition PM!

 

I kid you not - this guy is a professor and runs a successful consulting business and is a visiting speaker on the international stage. This was his serious suggestion.

 

 

Look up the meaning of pipe dream

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, evadgib said:

It was necessary in order to neuter the SNP; deflate the Hesletinies/remoaners and allow NI to have another crack at forming a govt without resorting to direct rule.

 

Indeed.

 

In must've been so infuriating for Sturgeon - May getting more prime TV time.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Which is it? Us or Them?

(Cue Pink Floyd ?)

I'm a little ambiguous about that, i have a British passport but haven't lived there for 45 years so i don't feel British.

[dick dasterdly]

12 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I doubt there is any chance of a compromise solution, since any give on either side completely undermines the integrity of their mandate, eg, if UK agrees to open borders then what is the point of leaving in the first place?  If EU agrees to special rights and priveleges then what is the point of being an EU member state given all the attendant costs and duties?

 

 

I'm beginning to feel the same way as I can't see any reasonable compromise that will appeal to both sides.

 

Its becoming clear that the population of other EU countries need the 'fear factor' to remain within the EU .

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Look up the meaning of pipe dream

 

Why, can't you under stand it? Simple enough, although appreciate English may not be your first language.

 

It's his fanciful idea, one he thinks would actually work but one that he knows is simply not practical. 

 

There are some good definitions and explanations on Google. You should try it.

 

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

In 1945 many people wanted significant social change following several years of war; just like people did in the 1920"s. 

 

They were tired of the old social hierarchies and of privilege by birthright and money, rather than ability and merit.

 

Now whilst we reject control of the non elected politically appointed foreign bureaucrats we are back peddling on allowing the rich top tier to run the country for their, and only their benefit.

 

But quite frankly, the opposition to the Tories are currently a talentless bunch of tossers.

I'm more optimistic (at the moment...), thinking that the electorate may have finally 'woken up' and realised that they can stand up and force UK politicians to consider their needs - as opposed to their previous only consideration - the 'needs' of the elite.

 

The brexit vote has certainly taken politicians by suprise, and they are likely to tread a bit warily for a while?

[Baerboxer]

12 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I doubt there is any chance of a compromise solution, since any give on either side completely undermines the integrity of their mandate, eg, if UK agrees to open borders then what is the point of leaving in the first place?  If EU agrees to special rights and priveleges then what is the point of being an EU member state given all the attendant costs and duties?

 

 

 

I doubt the UK electorate would tolerate open borders. That's something many disagree with, including pro EU Brits. Similarly the electorate will not expect any government to simply pay what the EU demand, knowing the creative accounting and lack of arithmetic ability that many member states seem to have.

 

As for enjoying all the privileges of membership whilst not paying or meeting all the agreed conditions - well Germany and others do that with NATO and have been for years.

 

Will be difficult negotiations for Britain as negotiating with liars, cheats, hypocrites and chancers always is.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm more optimistic (at the moment...), thinking that the electorate may have finally 'woken up' and realised that they can stand up and force UK politicians to consider their needs - as opposed to their previous only consideration - the 'needs' of the elite.

 

The brexit vote has certainly taken politicians by suprise, and they are likely to tread a bit warily for a while?

 

Hope you're right.

 

But not encouraged with May refusing to admit why NHS Nurses are forced to use food banks.

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hope you're right.

 

But not encouraged with May refusing to admit why NHS Nurses are forced to use food banks.

You believe that media propaganda??

 

Nurses are on average salaries or better (roughly) nowadays - there is no reason at all for them being "forced to use food banks.".

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I doubt the UK electorate would tolerate open borders. That's something many disagree with, including pro EU Brits. Similarly the electorate will not expect any government to simply pay what the EU demand, knowing the creative accounting and lack of arithmetic ability that many member states seem to have.

 

As for enjoying all the privileges of membership whilst not paying or meeting all the agreed conditions - well Germany and others do that with NATO and have been for years.

 

Will be difficult negotiations for Britain as negotiating with liars, cheats, hypocrites and chancers always is.

To look on the bright side () - I've no doubt that UK politicians are similarly liars, cheats, hypocrites and chancers.

 

Edit - Personally, I'm hoping that the referendum result will have frightened UK politicians (it clearly hasn't EU politicians....) into taking into account the concerns of ordinary voters.  We all live in hope .

Edited May 1, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

You believe that media propaganda??

 

Nurses are on average salaries or better (roughly) nowadays - there is no reason at all for them being "forced to use food banks.".

 

Difficult - I read that in the FT. They get a lot of complaints about being very pro EU and therefore anti Tory. 

 

But nurses were always poorly paid, as were police constables when considering what they actually have to do. It was a question put to May though, and she skirted around it rather than stating what you just did. That makes me think there is more to it.

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To look on the bright side () - I've no doubt that UK politicians are similarly liars, cheats, hypocrites and chancers.

 

Of course. But a little less blatant, in your face and so obvious!

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Difficult - I read that in the FT. They get a lot of complaints about being very pro EU and therefore anti Tory. 

 

But nurses were always poorly paid, as were police constables when considering what they actually have to do. It was a question put to May though, and she skirted around it rather than stating what you just did. That makes me think there is more to it.

I'd add that I worked with a woman married to some type of policeman - and was told (we were pretty good friends) that a fair amount of his income came from being 'hurt' whilst working.....  And she made it clear that this was something close to a scam....

 

Nurses used to be badly paid, nowadays they are reasonably well-paid - which has led to a dearth of vocational nurses.  Its now a career path....

 

Edit - Sorry, I have a fair amount of personal experience when it comes to nurses and the police - some good, some bad.

Edited May 1, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Baerboxer]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

I'd add that I worked with a woman married to some type of policeman - and was told (we were pretty good friends) that a fair amount of his income came from being 'hurt' whilst working.....  And she made it clear that this was something close to a scam....

 

Nurses used to be badly paid, nowadays they are reasonably well-paid - which has led to a dearth of vocational nurses.  Its now a career path....

 

Many police officers used to rely on overtime to build up wages. But I honestly never come across any who were scamming injury compensation payments. May well have happened but not on a huge scale. Same as bent cops, racist cops and those not of the right temparament. Always find some. But they usually get found out.

 

Not sure about nursing - been away for too long. But I used to have friends who were in that profession - from nurse to Matron.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

Many police officers used to rely on overtime to build up wages. But I honestly never come across any who were scamming injury compensation payments. May well have happened but not on a huge scale. Same as bent cops, racist cops and those not of the right temparament. Always find some. But they usually get found out.

 

Not sure about nursing - been away for too long. But I used to have friends who were in that profession - from nurse to Matron.

We're way off topic, but I can assure you that from personal experience times have changed when it comes to nurses in both ICU and geriatric wards.

 

I'd add that it didn't need to be a case of 'scamming' injury compensation payments for police - the slightest injury at work resulted in a compensation payment - according to the wife with whom I worked.

 

My last comment would be that I lived in a nearby area when the 'Stephen Lawrence' case occurred - and when burgled, was left in no doubt (they regaled me racist stories - no idea whether or not they were true - but I could have done without it....) that the police in that area were EXTREMELY racist.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Look up the meaning of pipe dream

 

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Why, can't you under stand it? Simple enough, although appreciate English may not be your first language.

 

It's his fanciful idea, one he thinks would actually work but one that he knows is simply not practical. 

 

There are some good definitions and explanations on Google. You should try it.

 

 

 

 

pipe dream

ˈpīp ˌdrēm/

noun

 

1. an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

   synonyms:

   fantasy, false hope, illusion, delusion, daydream, chimera;

    

   So...

   I have a serious fantasy.

   I have a serious false hope

   I have a serious illusion

   I have a serious delusion

   I have a serious daydream

   I have a serious chimera.

    

   •  
   •  

   Definition of pipe dream

   1. :  an illusory or fantastic plan, hope, or story

    

    

   TOP DEFINITION

    

   pipe dream

   n : a fantastic but vain hope (from fantasies induced by the opium pipe);

   ' I have this dream about being the king of the universe.'

[Baerboxer]

15 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

pipe dream

ˈpīp ˌdrēm/

noun

 

1. an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

   synonyms:

   fantasy, false hope, illusion, delusion, daydream, chimera;

    

   So...

   I have a serious fantasy.

   I have a serious false hope

   I have a serious illusion

   I have a serious delusion

   I have a serious daydream

   I have a serious chimera.

    

   •  
   •  

   Definition of pipe dream

   1. :  an illusory or fantastic plan, hope, or story

    

    

   TOP DEFINITION

    

   pipe dream

   n : a fantastic but vain hope (from fantasies induced by the opium pipe);

   ' I have this dream about being the king of the universe.'

 

"the origin of the phrase “pipe dream”, meaning “a fantastic hope or plan that is generally regarded as being nearly impossible to achieve. This phrase first popped up in the 19th century, with the earliest known documented case coming from Chicago, Illinois; specifically, coming from the December of 1890 issue of the Chicago Daily Tribune, in this case referring to aerial navigation: “It has been regarded as a pipe-dream for a good many years.”

 

And as we all know, those flying machine things will never work  - 

 

There you go! You can do it! Now, don't fall into the trap of just posting research to support yourself. Be bigger than that, open your mind,

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

"the origin of the phrase “pipe dream”, meaning “a fantastic hope or plan that is generally regarded as being nearly impossible to achieve. This phrase first popped up in the 19th century, with the earliest known documented case coming from Chicago, Illinois; specifically, coming from the December of 1890 issue of the Chicago Daily Tribune, in this case referring to aerial navigation: “It has been regarded as a pipe-dream for a good many years.”

 

And as we all know, those flying machine things will never work  - 

 

There you go! You can do it! Now, don't fall into the trap of just posting research to support yourself. Be bigger than that, open your mind,

 

 

 

 

Clearly the author of that piece meant it was something that could never happen. That was its meaning  Subsequent events proved otherwise. Those events proved the author to be wrong. But they have no bearing on the meaning of the word.

If X tells Y that what he's trying to do is impossible and it turns out to be doable, does that signify that impossible means possible?

Your citation comes from an obscure source. It's almost always possible to find something on the internet to support one's case. It's the quality of the sources that count.  One of my citations came from Merriam Webster. Here's one from the Oxford English Dictionary:

An unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

‘free trade in international aviation will remain a pipe dream’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pipe_dream