Cost of submarines could rise: Thai Navy

[webfact]

Cost of submarines could rise: Navy
By Wasamon Audjarint
The Nation
Chon Buri

 

 

Navy admits price for 3 Chinese vessels MIGHT top Bt36 bn if technology changes

 

BANGKOK: -- THE Royal Thai Navy admitted yesterday that the deal to buy three Chinese submarines could cost more than Bt36 billion – the initial price given by the government – if the Navy believes it requires more advanced technology.

 

“There might be additional costs if they enhance the capability of submarines in the future,” Navy Deputy Chief of Staff Vice Admiral Patchara Pumpiched said. 

 

“But we’ll also make sure that all equipment that we request in the agreement is obtained.

 

“I don’t think any Defence Ministry or the Navy of any country would get a deal like we have,” Patchara added, suggesting the price was a bargain for Thailand.

 

The vice admiral, together with four other high-ranking officers, spoke at a press briefing to explain why the Navy gave thumbs up to the Yuan Class S26T submarines.

 

During the 90-minute press conference, the Navy stressed that the multi-billion-baht deal was “very cheap” considering additional services offered by the Chinese government.

 

Procurement of the first submarine, worth Bt13.5 billion, was confidentially approved by the Cabinet on April 18. The decision was widely criticised for its secrecy and lack of explanation about why the country needs to buy submarines, especially during an economic downturn. 

 

Navy Chief of Staff Admiral Luechai Ruddit, who heads the procurement division, said the price would also include officer training from the Chinese Navy and supporting facilities such as a radio station, air compressor and capacitor.

 

The first hardware will be obtained within six years. Thailand and China expect to sign a procurement agreement this month, with the Kingdom having to pay a first instalment within 45 days of the signing, according to Rear Admiral Grisdaporn Bhundhoombhoad, director-general to the Naval Acquisition Management Office.

 

There will be 17 instalments for the first sub, Grisdapron said. Bt700 million will be paid this year and approximately Bt2.1 billion paid in annual sums from 2018 to 2023.

 

While Cabinet approved the Naval strategy to obtain all three submarines within the next 11 years, the Navy has yet to spell out when the second and the third subs will be purchased. “We’ll have to consider necessity and budget at the time,” Grisdaporn said. 

 

Last October, the Navy set up a 22-member committee, mostly high-ranking officers, to work on the submarine procurement, including choosing which of six countries provided the best deal, Admiral Luechai said. 

 

“They went through serious discussion to come to the China deal. There was no voting involved,” he said. “But I don’t think their names will be publicised, as that would only cause ripples of conflict and misunderstanding,” he said.

 

The Navy officials said they were not meant to provide any official explanation before the Cabinet gave the green light for it, reasoning the deal was confidential. However, the secrecy triggered public suspicion that the submarine purchase was part of a hidden agenda and that was why it went ahead secretly.

 

“We simply couldn’t say anything if the procurement process had not been completed. Revealing it too early would only harm other countries [that offered subs],” Luechai said. “It was also deemed confidential by the government.”

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30313959

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-05-02

[fruitman]

Well in my homecountry even chinese cars didn't pass the qualitytests so we don't have them..

 

So they bought a submarine without negotiating the price  weapons in it?

[PatOngo]

Cost of submarines could rise: Navy

Never mind, build some more shopping malls, problem solved!

[baboon]

Not to worry. The Oversight Committee will - oops, sorry. 

Well I'm sure that at any rate the military will continue to do do the fine job of policing themselves they are already notorious for...

[wakeupplease]

By the time they are deliverer they will be old hat, then any boats running a con will hear there whereabouts on the latest scanner of the time, all because some say we need a sub to play with as out D>>>> are to small. One thing is for sure the rest of the world will laugh their ba>>s off at people who simple do not have any brains

[starky]

And here we go..gone from 36 million to 2.1 billion in one press release. Go junta!  at least they get a bonus air compressor 

Edited May 1, 2017 by starky

[Thechook]

Great you get a free radio and air compressor, Thais love freebies and should buy more if the Chinese are throwing in free stuff.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Thechook

[jaiyen]

" No other country could get a deal like we have"  Of course not ! No other country would buy such an out dated useless piece of crap.

[Ricardo]

" Revealing it too early would only harm other countries [that offered subs,”

 

Yes, of course,  the deal had to be kept top-secret, to protect the commercial interests of other countries, which aren't involved in the deal, it all makes sense now ! 

 

And the deal for the stripped-down basic-model submarines is  " very cheap” , which perhaps explains why  " There might be additional costs if they enhance the capability of submarines in the future”,  do ya think ?  

 

One statement which one would definitely agree with is  “I don’t think any Defence Ministry or the Navy of any country would get a deal like we have,”    

[kaorop]

“I don’t think any Defence Ministry or the Navy of any country would get a deal like we have,” Patchara added, suggesting the price was a bargain for Thailand.

And my dear lad everyone and I mean EVERYONE underquotes what they paid for things and overquotes what they sold something for.......So unfortunately the oginal figure is less than the actual price paid....and now more is needed...

[petedk]

I bought 10000 kg of dog food yesterday. It was so cheap I saved a small fortune.

Now I need to buy a dog.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

1 hour ago, jaiyen said:

" No other country could get a deal like we have"  Of course not ! No other country would buy such an out dated useless piece of crap.

My thoughts exactly.  I imagine that one of the additional technological developments they will want to include will be a hand brake, but these changes will ensure that there is more opportunity for money to be made and I do not mean by the Chinese alone.

 

At least a bit more of the truth is out, as we now know, if we did not before, that these bargain subs are in effect being purchased at an unknown total price and operating costs, which will. no doubt escalate out of all proportion since the updated specifications, without which the subs will be useless in warfare,  will cost whatever the Chinese want them to and  it is perhaps significant that the offer of  "three for the price of two" seems to have  died a quiet death.

 

Hopefully, if there happens to be a numerate official involved in this acquisition, the total potential cost of this ridiculous venture will come to the attention of the big boss and even he will be staggered by the true cost of these toys for the boys and will decide to gain enormous public credit for himself by cancelling the whole project and instead using the cash to improve the standard of living of the Thai people.   I can dream, can't I?

[Ulic]

Someone needs to remind them the third submarine is free.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Ulic

[jerojero]

I bought 10000 kg of dog food yesterday. It was so cheap I saved a small fortune.

Now I need to buy a dog.

Or a dozen.

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

My thoughts exactly.  I imagine that one of the additional technological developments they will want to include will be a hand brake, but these changes will ensure that there is more opportunity for money to be made and I do not mean by the Chinese alone.

 

At least a bit more of the truth is out, as we now know, if we did not before, that these bargain subs are in effect being purchased at an unknown total price and operating costs, which will. no doubt escalate out of all proportion since the updated specifications, without which the subs will be useless in warfare,  will cost whatever the Chinese want them to and  it is perhaps significant that the offer of  "three for the price of two" seems to have  died a quiet death.

 

Hopefully, if there happens to be a numerate official involved in this acquisition, the total potential cost of this ridiculous venture will come to the attention of the big boss and even he will be staggered by the true cost of these toys for the boys and will decide to gain enormous public credit for himself by cancelling the whole project and instead using the cash to improve the standard of living of the Thai people.   I can dream, can't I?

Weapons always get more expensive.. look at the mess the JSF fighter is.. costing more and more. 

 

Stupid they did not think about it. I am against buying the subs, but they should have bough the German subs (if they really had to buy them, i prefer no subs at all) at least then they had a better idea about the real costs and running costs.

 

But this is better for those buying it.. can skim off more and more when fitting new stuff on the subs.

[colinneil]

The navy said, that the cost of the subs could rise.

Surely that is a joke, anytime something like the subs are bought costs rise.

[Rhys]

....now somtaam cannot cost a billion a plate, can it?

[trainman34014]

They forgot to add in the brown envelope fillings !

[jerojero]

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

[pentap]

When it comes to business and pulling the wool over people's eyes, the Chinese beat the Thais hands down.

A better deal than any other other country! They love to blow their trumpet.

No other country wants to buy the subs! I wonder why?

Watch this space!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[cornishcarlos]

They got a free air compressor (Thai Watsadu sell them) and a capacitor !!

These statements just make my day, gotta love the blagging that goes on...

[worgeordie]

Obfuscate the price paid for the Submarines,so no one can check

the price of say what Pakistan paid for the same subs ,and wonder

where the difference ended up.

regards worgeordie

[dieseldave1951]

3 hours ago, Thechook said:

Great you get a free radio and air compressor, Thais love freebies and should buy more if the Chinese are throwing in free stuff.

a capacitor  ?? surly that's got lost in translation, also don't forget the self destruct electronic system controlled by the vendors(well you don't want the Thai navy attacking the Chinese do we) that's assuming that once these out dated subs can actually submerge and rise again, or does this go along with the aircraft carrier with no planes or (torpedo's come with the last instalment) 

Edited May 2, 2017 by dieseldave1951

[NCC1701A]

good, keep buying crap so Moody's can downgrade Thailand and the baht will dive. (pun intended)

 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by NCC1701A

[PremiumLane]

We laugh at the stupidity of wasting so much money on this military hardware, and rightly so. However, our own governments continue to waste vasts amounts of money on 'defense' - trillions if you are in the US.

 

So, guess the Thai military are just copying us in the West

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, trainman34014 said:

They forgot to add in the brown envelope fillings !

Oh come on, they worked that out first then factored in the submarine cost!

[thesetat2013]

0

[MobileContent]

There will be 17 instalments for the first sub, Grisdapron said. Bt700 million will be paid this year and approximately Bt2.1 billion paid in annual sums from 2018 to 2023.

 

Very fishy. Normally a Bank Guarantee would be issued and to be paid at delivery. Having 17 payments means a lot of parties are getting a cut out of it. This bank guarantee would then be used to offer the supplier to get the financing done or at least get factoring service with a government linked bank in China. Interestingly no G2G deal. 

[IMA_FARANG]

Question for all you "Experts".

How do you flush a toilet on a submarine?

Especially if you are submerged at the time?

I know, but do you?

Hint: that is why toilets on submarines have lock down latches on the toilet seat lids.

Below a few meters submerged the water pressure OUTSIDE the boat is greater than inside the boat (subs are referred to as Boats in the Navy).

Therefore to flush a toilet on a sub you need to use air pressure to force the stuff you want to flush OUT against the outside water pressure.

So the first step in flushing that toilet is to first close the toilet bowl lid and LOCK it down securely.

If you don't and just flush the toilet the higher outside water pressure  will  cause the toilet to flush IN, not out.

That leads to a rather messy situation  as he toilet's contents are sprayed out of the toilet and often on to the flusher.

 

 

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

 

“I don’t think any Defence Ministry or the Navy of any country would get a deal like we have,” Patchara added, suggesting the price was a bargain for Thailand.

Sounds like a Trump comeback.