Somtam slowly killing many Thais, cancer center says

[mok199]

i looked high and low for a natural parasite cleanse,,with wormwood ,finally ordered on line..Thailand offers only a ''one time''direct kill drug,im sure that cant be good for the liver...

[AlfonsV]

35 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Riding on a motobike with no helmet is more dangerous than eating plaa raa...

 

"Somewhere between 1 percent and 5 percent of people infected with the parasites contract liver cancer."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/04/26/world/asia/26iht-thailand.html

And kills you not slowly but mainly very fast. What kills the thai people slowly, is the msg which they put everywhere with full spoons, in somtam as well. 

[tazly]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Never been a fan of thai food myself and never understood the reasoning behind eating food that has so much chilli in it. 

It always strikes me as strange that food should bring on a sweating session, red face and a need to drink litres of water to kill/cool off the burn. More like a competition than enjoyment. Locally I sometimes have TomYam Kung and ask them to bring the chilli in another side dish. Usually they bring 15 or so chillies in the dish for one bowl of soup.

Someone at the table will be happy to have them and add to their own bowl then sit there gasping, sweating and saying Aroi Aroi.

No way can that be good for your stomach lining or intestines over a lifetime.

Never understood how someone could not love Thai food, especially the spiciness.  Spice is one of the five taste elements combined in Thai cooking.  Besides tasting incredible, the fibre in the spice is great for digestion.  In reality, the Thai chillis aren't really that spicy except for uneducated westerners.  Try the Naga ghost chilli out of India which is off the Scoville spice-charts if you want to taste a real spicy one, and clean out your gut the following day.

Anyway enjoy your greasy burger and fries!

Edited May 5, 2017 by tazly
typo

[AlfonsV]

Both chili and raw papaya are wellknown remedies for intestinal parasites. I like chilis a lot and eat it daily 1 up to 3 times, fresh or as powder. In addition, some chilis have more vitamin C than lemons.

For my part, I do not understand why farang are living here and do not like thai food but eat american white toast bread, western saussages, imported marmelade, english cheese etc

[tazly]

1 minute ago, AlfonsV said:

Both chili and raw papaya are wellknown remedies for intestinal parasites. I like chilis a lot and eat it daily 1 up to 3 times, fresh or as powder. In addition, some chilis have more vitamin C than lemons.

For my part, I do not understand why farang are living here and do not like thai food but eat american white toast bread, western saussages, imported marmelade, english cheese etc

Totally agree....add bacon to the list!

[Bluespunk]

26 minutes ago, cme said:

I can remember when Indian restaurants first started opening up in the UK a Tindaloo was normally in the menu but now have not seen it for the past 15 years or so. My limit is a Madras so not a problem for me but I did ask a waiter once and he said UK people just couldn't manage it, so off the menu.

Judging on my mate's experience and the aftermath, the waiter was right. 

[samsensam]

9 minutes ago, tazly said:

Never understood how someone could not love Thai food, especially the spiciness.  Spice is one of the five taste elements combined in Thai cooking.  Besides tasting incredible, the fibre in the spice is great for digestion.  In reality, the Thai chillis aren't really that spicy except for uneducated westerners.  Try the Naga ghost chilli out of India which is off the Scoville spice-charts if you want to taste a real spicy one, and clean out your gut the following day.

Anyway enjoy your greasy burger and fries!

 

In reality, the Thai chillis aren't really that spicy except for uneducated westerners. 

 

not all thais like spicy food, a fair number of my thai friends dont, so i am unsure what your 'uneducated foreigner' comment means.

 

i enjoy some flavouring, though find indian spicing much more delicious than thai. i do worry that spicy flavouring is often used to cover otherwise flavourless ingredients or cooking or both. back home i live in a farming community and you cant beat the natural flavour of well cooked meat and vegetables; now that is delicious!

 

[AlfonsV]

1 minute ago, tazly said:

Totally agree....add bacon to the list!

The grocery stores at the malls are full of that expensive imported processed crap. This was not seen in Loso some 30 years ago. This is worsen the general health here, not an imported vegetable known here since 300 or 400 years

[HerbalEd]

9 hours ago, nursebobrmn said:

i tried to edumacate my wife of the perils of raw fish in somtam, it fell on deaf ears. maybe she will die of the big C before i do.

I just asked my wife about this and she says she and her family members boil their pla ra in order to kill any worms or bacteria. 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as the reply. 

[AlfonsV]

How long msg is in use? The famous traditional french or italian cuisine did not need it during centuries. 

[Bonefish]

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Liver fluke. It has been known about for many years that pra-ra may contain liver fluke which can lead to cancer of the liver.  Knew a university Phd/senior lecturer at the time (many years ago) who was researching the incidence of liver cancer in Thailand and its connection to the consumption of raw fish products. I tell GF/Thais this but well, I'm farang, what would I know. You can get cooked (this kills the fluke) pra-ra now but they say the raw, fermented stuff is better.

 

[Bonefish]

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Liver fluke. It has been known about for many years that pra-ra may contain liver fluke which can lead to cancer of the liver.  Knew a university Phd/senior lecturer at the time (many years ago) who was researching the incidence of liver cancer in Thailand and its connection to the consumption of raw fish products. I tell GF/Thais this but well, I'm farang, what would I know. You can get cooked (this kills the fluke) pra-ra now but they say the raw, fermented stuff is better.

Thank you for this post regarding the real reason behind the incredible amount of liver cancer in Thailand (especially in Isaan) and in the neighbouring countries (Laos, Cambodia, S. China) where uncooked fermented freshwater fish is consumed. The liver fluke is what causes those cancers.

 

The ignorance exhibited by most other posters in this discussion is mind-boggling (too spicy, too much MSG, etc.).  Read up, folks, do a simple Google search for liver flukes and liver cancer in SE Asia, and you will know the truth. And tell your Thai friends to stop eating food laced with deadly fermented fish paste!

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bonefish

[AlfonsV]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

This maybe not quite true. My former Thai wife was (and still is) a Head of Ward Nurse at the local general hospital. They did their own research into Somtam and categorized people who ate this dish 1, 2 and 3 times a day. I was surprised, when she was doing some stats on it, at how how many Thais ate Somtam 3 times a day. In those that ate 2 or 3 times a day had a large peak in the graphs for stomach ailments while those who ate Somtam once a day or a couple of times a week didn't suffer much more than non-eaters.

Interesting to learn. However, I would never eat anything 3 times a days as I never drink 3 bottles a day. 555

[overherebc]

53 minutes ago, tazly said:

Never understood how someone could not love Thai food, especially the spiciness.  Spice is one of the five taste elements combined in Thai cooking.  Besides tasting incredible, the fibre in the spice is great for digestion.  In reality, the Thai chillis aren't really that spicy except for uneducated westerners.  Try the Naga ghost chilli out of India which is off the Scoville spice-charts if you want to taste a real spicy one, and clean out your gut the following day.

Anyway enjoy your greasy burger and fries!

Could be because some of us don't like chilli and don't eat crap greasy burgers and french fries.

Lots of good food out there for people to buy and cook at home to get a good balanced diet.

We rarely eat out nowadays because both of us enjoy cooking at home and can make good meals with good ingredients. I can make good Italian food, learned when I lived there. I can also make good Indian food that is tasty and full of flavour without being blistering hot with chilli.

Just because someone can eat food that burns the enamel of their teeth because it makes them feel like hero doesn't mean they know what good food is.

Just to add 'spice' taste is a flavour not a degree of how 'hot' it feels in your mouth.

Many spices have delicate tastes, not just degrees of burn in your mouth.

Edited May 5, 2017 by overherebc

[AlfonsV]

To abstain from both is better, raw fish and msg. The one reason why does not exclude the other one

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Could be because some of us don't like chilli and don't eat crap greasy burgers and french fries.

Lots of good food out there for people to buy and cook at home to get a good balanced diet.

We rarely eat out nowadays because both of us enjoy cooking at home and can make good meals with good ingredients. I can make good Italian food, learned when I lived there. I can also make good Indian food that is tasty and full of flavour without being blistering hot with chilli.

Just because someone can eat food that burns the enamel of their teeth because it makes them feel like hero doesn't mean they know what good food is.

Just to add 'spice' taste is a flavour not a degree of how 'hot' it feels in your mouth.

Many spices have delicate tastes, not just degrees of burn in your mouth.

If you check back some of my posts you will note I'm growing Ghost Chillis at the moment. Just waiting for the first flowers and hopefully a few initial peppers.

Not for me by the way, some friends want to try them.

???

[Guitar God]

Worms cause cancer?

[kokopelli]

41 minutes ago, Bonefish said:

Thank you for this post regarding the real reason behind the incredible amount of liver cancer in Thailand (especially in Isaan) and in the neighbouring countries (Laos, Cambodia, S. China) where uncooked fermented freshwater fish is consumed. The liver fluke is what causes those cancers.

 

The ignorance exhibited by most other posters in this discussion is mind-boggling (too spicy, too much MSG, etc.).  Read up, folks, do a simple Google search for liver flukes and liver cancer in SE Asia, and you will know the truth. And tell your Thai friends to stop eating food laced with deadly fermented fish paste!

Bonefish,  thanks for that post. Why others are carrying on about chillis, MSG, etc is beyond me.

My Thai friend's sister died from liver cancer, in her early 40s, from consuming this raw fish sauce on a regular basis.  It was just a matter of months from the first symptoms to her death. Nothing could be done to save here other than, maybe, a liver transplant.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, kokopelli said:

Bonefish,  thanks for that post. Why others are carrying on about chillis, MSG, etc is beyond me.

My Thai friend's sister died from liver cancer, in her early 40s, from consuming this raw fish sauce on a regular basis.  It was just a matter of months from the first symptoms to her death. Nothing could be done to save here other than, maybe, a liver transplant.

Sad story and understand. People are posting ref' chilli and MSG because in combination with raw fish it's possible it may even contribute to speeding up the process.

It's a complex problem and will take many years to educate a lot of people that any raw food is not a good idea especially if consumed on an almost daily basis.

For myself chicken, pork whatever if I cut it open and see anything pink it goes straight back in the oven or on the barbie.

Hope you understand.

[Italian guy]

11 hours ago, jaltsc said:

High sodium and Sugar intake, High consumption of reused oil, use of agricultural sprays which have been banned in western nations, tobacco use, lack of adequate exercise, etc

Out of all the list only "high consumption of reused oil" and "use of agricultural sprays which have been banned in western nations" do not apply to western countries. The consumption of junk food, lots of sugar, salt low quality oils, butter, tobacco, alcohol and lack of exercise are unfortunately very common also in the west, especially in the US!

 

-No offense intended-

[Snig27]

2 hours ago, AlfonsV said:

Both chili and raw papaya are wellknown remedies for intestinal parasites. I like chilis a lot and eat it daily 1 up to 3 times, fresh or as powder. In addition, some chilis have more vitamin C than lemons.

For my part, I do not understand why farang are living here and do not like thai food but eat american white toast bread, western saussages, imported marmelade, english cheese etc

 

Fully agree. Both are regarded as super foods and extremely good for the digestion and the blood.

 

Old expats grumbling how much better the food was back home are par for the course at Thai Visa though. Mostly the food in the UK (and the US) is dreadful processed stodge but I guess there are always some... 

[Snig27]

30 minutes ago, overherebc said:

For myself chicken, pork whatever if I cut it open and see anything pink it goes straight back in the oven or on the barbie.

Hope you understand.

 

 

Raw chicken is a big part of the Japanese diet (as is raw fish) - their life expectancy last year was 85 years. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Snig27

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Guitar God said:

Worms cause cancer?

Parasite-associated morbidity: liver fluke infection and bile duct cancer in northeast Thailand.

Sithithaworn P¹, Haswell-Elkins MR, Mairiang P, Satarug S, Mairiang E, Vatanasapt V, Elkins DB.

Author information

 

Abstract

Infection with the liver fluke, Opisthorchis viverrini, remains a major public health problem in Northeast Thailand, where approximately one-third of the population is infected. The northeast region is largely populated by Laos-descendent Thais who enjoy eating raw fish, which harbour the infective stage of the fluke. The parasite has maintained its presence in the population despite the widespread use of praziquantel and dissemination of health education material throughout the region by vigorous government-sponsored programs in recent years. The most severe consequence of liver fluke infection is cholangiocarcinoma, i.e. cancer of the bile duct epithelium. Although mortality due to the parasites alone appears to be uncommon, cholangiocarcinoma arising as a result of infection is one of the leading causes of death in the region. This paper reviews the pathogenesis of infection and the geographic, hospital-based and community studies which demonstrate the close relationship between infection and cancer. In addition, data from the Cancer Registry of Khon Kaen, Northeast Thailand and population-based studies using ultrasonography to visualize early tumours which illuminate the very high frequency of the cancer among heavily infected individuals and communities are discussed. Finally, the paper will close with a brief commentary on the prospects for control of the parasite and its likely impact on the frequency of cancer given the current epidemiological situation of liver fluke infection.

[Ruffian Dick]

Forgive me if I missed anyone mentioning this, but saltwater fish have a much lower incidence of parasites than fresh-water fish. Sushi chefs that I know consider it very foolhardy to eat freshwater fish raw.

 

[UniqueWord]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

I know I brought chilli into this but I did because I feel consumption of too much on a daily basis must be just as bad for you as raw fish.

The combination of raw crab,  fish and meat must have some dangers, perhaps loads of hot chilli on top magnifies the situation, I don't know.

Seems we have now got smoking, diesel fumes etc thrown in so I would like to add that having a brick dropped on your head on a building site can also be bad for your health.

Thanks, made me laugh!  UW.

[Moonmoon]

I knew it! i always told my wife when I see the ingredients used. High Sugar content too. 

[Damrongsak]

10 hours ago, islandguy said:

I never eat som tam with fermented crabs or Pla ra.

My wife will not eat it that way, either. Her friends like her food because it is always fresh, clean, properly prepared and presented. 

 

It appears that chili peppers originated in Mexico, or at least central and northern South America.  As did most other important Solanaceous plants.  I find it amazing that they ended up worldwide way back when due to the spice trade. Bit 'o history:  http://www.ushotstuff.com/history.htm

 

I've seen my Thai brother-in-law put two generous tablespoons of prik pong (toasted and coarsely ground Thai chilies) into a big bowl of noodles.  I like hot, but that is ridiculous.  They say eating hot increases body temp, causing sweating, and releases endorphins.  Here are some crazy hot sauces.  I like some of the names.

 

Our Hot Sauces Ranked by Scoville Rating

7,000,000 - The Source Hot Sauce
1,500,000 - Mild to Wild Stupid Hot
1,500,000 - DA BOMB The Final Answer Hot Sauce
1,000,000 - Cool Million Hot Sauce Extract
1,000,000 - Holy Jolokia Sauce
1,000,000 - Magma Hot Sauce
700,000 - Smack My Ass & Call Me Sally
600,000 - Frostbite Hot Sauce
600,000 - Mad Dog 357 Collector's Edition Hot Sauce with Bullet Spoon
500,000 - Pure Cap Hot Sauce
500,000 - Z Nothing Beyond Extreme Hot Sauce
300,000 - Backdraft Hot Sauce, Mild & Wild
250,000 - Liquid Stoopid
250,000 - Vicious Viper Hot Sauce
234,000 - DA BOMB Ground Zero
120,000 - Da Bomb Beyond Insanity Hot Sauce
90,000 - Dave's Ultimate Insanity Hot Sauce
83,000 - Widow - No Survivors Hot Sauce
51,000 - Dave's Insanity Hot Sauce
49,220 - Blair's After Death Hot Sauce
33,390 - Endorphin Rush
5,940 - Scorned Woman Hot Sauce
3,600 - Cholula Hot Sauce From Mexico

[weejun]

14 hours ago, overherebc said:

Never been a fan of thai food myself and never understood the reasoning behind eating food that has so much chilli in it. 

It always strikes me as strange that food should bring on a sweating session, red face and a need to drink litres of water to kill/cool off the burn. More like a competition than enjoyment. Locally I sometimes have TomYam Kung and ask them to bring the chilli in another side dish. Usually they bring 15 or so chillies in the dish for one bowl of soup.

Someone at the table will be happy to have them and add to their own bowl then sit there gasping, sweating and saying Aroi Aroi.

No way can that be good for your stomach lining or intestines over a lifetime.

Yes, imagine that. Someone else not liking the exact same things you do. What is the world coming to? Why can't everyone just like what you like and get over their personal preferences?

[tazly]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

Could be because some of us don't like chilli and don't eat crap greasy burgers and french fries.

Lots of good food out there for people to buy and cook at home to get a good balanced diet.

We rarely eat out nowadays because both of us enjoy cooking at home and can make good meals with good ingredients. I can make good Italian food, learned when I lived there. I can also make good Indian food that is tasty and full of flavour without being blistering hot with chilli.

Just because someone can eat food that burns the enamel of their teeth because it makes them feel like hero doesn't mean they know what good food is.

Just to add 'spice' taste is a flavour not a degree of how 'hot' it feels in your mouth.

Many spices have delicate tastes, not just degrees of burn in your mouth.

I actually like to eat "great" food, not just good, so that may be a difference between us.  It is interesting to see how defensive you are about spicy food using such  exaggerations such as "hero", burning enamel, competition, etcetc.  I am getting the feeling someone may have humiliated over you over your limited palate, but you shouldn't take offense and give up.  If you like pasta, then a good starting point for you into Thai food, would be one of the Thai street food noodle soups (kwai teo sp?) either chicken or pork.  I like when they add the pig's blood to it, and use the 5 flavour balance (google it as your homework assignment) in the proportions I like along with lots of fresh basil leaves......give yourself a challenge and get off the canned spaghetti sauces and macaroni and cheese.  There is a world of "great" Thai food out there!

Edited May 5, 2017 by tazly
sp