Canadian Direct deposit

[DanBlack]

Now that I'm really old, I am receiving my Canadian pension. The problem is I can't seem to satisfy the CPP office with the specific bank numbers they want. Can any Canadians tell me if they get direct deposit, and which bank they use

Thanks

[lopburi3]

Sorry from below the border but are you sure this is something you want?  Money remitted into Thailand in the year earned can be subject to Thai tax if not specifically exempt and normally it is best to keep a bank account in your home country for non-baht expenses and just bring money in when needed (this always being savings from a prior year).  For that you could use SWIFT bank transfer or perhaps various money transfer services - or even use an ATM card here to withdraw as needed (it may be expensive but it can be easy and worth it for some). 

[Pib]

From looking at the Canadian Pension Plan page sure looks like you could use a Bangkok Bank account and use the same process that many Americans living in Thailand use for Direct Deposit of their social security, military retirement, civilian,  etc., benefit payments.   It's a low cost transfer system....much cheaper than using SWIFT.

 

Basically you just provide your "in-Thailand Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account number" and the "Bangkok Bank New York ABA routing number."  You do not need a bank account at the New York branch....you are only using their ABA routing number for pass-thru purposes  The process is shown at this Bangkok Bank webpage.  With this special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account you can not have  debit card or ibanking transfer-out capability on the account....the only way to get/transfer money is to physically go to any Bangkok Bank branch.

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

 

 

And on this Candian Pension Plan "Direct Deposit for Individuals Living Abroard" webpage (page 23) it lists the U.S. as one of the countries a Canadian Pension Plan can be direct deposit to and the bank info needed to send money to a U.S. bank...you just need the "ABA number" which is referred to as the Sort Code and the "Account number."  You would provide the NY branch ABA code of "026008691" and your "in-Thailand Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account number."  Yes, you are not actually living in the U.S. but Thailand, however, this transfer is considered a "domestic transfer" in the U.S. although the money ends up in Thailand.  It's a special setup which has been in-place for many years and used by Americans....Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank capable of receiving funds using the U.S. ACH/ABA system.  

 

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/dd/etranger-abroad-eng.html#countries

 

 

I'm not Canadian, but American and have used above Bangkok Bank method to received Direct Deposit of benefit payments along with many others in Thailand for many years....to include lopburi3 I think.  I use to use the method to receive my military retirement benefit for a few months....worked fine....but I later stopped as I switched to using no foreign transaction fee debit cards that reimburse ATM fee and using counter withdrawals.  

 

Anyway, I can't say for sure it will work for you...but cursory review of the Canadian Pension Plan website seems like it should.

 

 

[allane]

Can you comment on Lopburi3's assertion that this type of payment is taxable in Thailand ?

[Pib]

He's correct unless covered and exempted by a treaty/agreement between Thailand and your home country like how the US & Thailand have an agreement that U.S. govt pension/benefit payments are not taxable by Thailand.  For example, see Article 20 of this US/Thai tax agreement.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

 

And the likelihood of Thailand keying in on incoming pension payments during the year they were earned is probably very, very low especially if you are not paying/filing any Thai tax returns.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Pib

[allane]

I just googled "list of Thailand tax treaties with Canada". I found  "Dept. of Finance Canada, Convention Between Canada and  Kingdom of Thailand for Avoidance of Double Taxation"  Pensions are taxable in the country of payment only; ref. Chapter 3, Article 18.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, allane said:

I just googled "list of Thailand tax treaties with Canada". I found  "Dept. of Finance Canada, Convention Between Canada and  Kingdom of Thailand for Avoidance of Double Taxation"  Pensions are taxable in the country of payment only; ref. Chapter 3, Article 18.

Cool....appears to be just like the US/Thai agreement. 

[DanBlack]

Thanks everyone for the info. And Pib. Your comprehensive answer must have taken a long time to research and write. I had already gone to my BKK bank branch and the main one in Phuket town, and they said it could not be done. I will follow your instructions when I get to a PC. Too much info for my phone

Thanks again for all your time and effort

[dormouse]

I have my Canadian pension directly deposited in my Kasikornbank savings account.

Foreign CPP payments are channeled through the Bank of America, who
have an office in Bangkok.

To arrange direct deposits you have to provide the CPP office with a numerical
code for the bank and for the branch.
The 3 digit bank code is from the SMART System, for example Bangkok bank 002,
Kasikornbank 004. For a complete list see:
bangkokbank.com/download/SMART-MEMBER-BANKS-Eng-.pdf

The branch code are the first 3 digits of your bank account number.

The Canadian pension can also be paid by cheque (in Thai Baht) drawn on
the Bank of America, Bangkok office. Takes about 10 days; fee 10 baht.

[Pib]

Bunch of countries apparently the Canadian Pension Plan will sent to...Thailand listed on page 22....tells info needed.

 

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/dd/etranger-abroad-eng.html#countries

 

 

 

[Pib]

 

The CPP webpage calls for a 9 digit bank/branch code for Thailand.  Above info only adds up to 6 digits.    And using Bangkok Bank just as example, their bank accounts are 10 digits long which includes the first 3 digits which is the branch code.  

 

 

Thought maybe the webpage might mean SWIFT code but just using Bangkok Bank as example their SWIFT code is only 8 digits.   Plus for some other countries they specifically say SWIFT code is needed, so that would imply they are not looking for a SWIFT code when dealing with Thailand.

 

Here's the correct link to that Bangkok Bank SMART code PDF.   Seems Bank of America would be on the list also but they are not.  

http://www.bangkokbank.com/download/SMART_Member_Banks_Eng_.pdf

 

Wonder what the "9 digit" code for Thailand banks really is?  Or maybe the CPP webpage is just in error for Thailand?  Probably best to contact them and ask.  But bottom line the CPP sure sends to a lot of countries.

[DanBlack]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

The CPP webpage calls for a 9 digit bank/branch code for Thailand.  Above info only adds up to 6 digits.    And using Bangkok Bank just as example, their bank accounts are 10 digits long which includes the first 3 digits which is the branch code.  

 

 

Thought maybe the webpage might mean SWIFT code but just using Bangkok Bank as example their SWIFT code is only 8 digits.   Plus for some other countries they specifically say SWIFT code is needed, so that would imply they are not looking for a SWIFT code when dealing with Thailand.

 

Here's the correct link to that Bangkok Bank SMART code PDF.   Seems Bank of America would be on the list also but they are not.  

http://www.bangkokbank.com/download/SMART_Member_Banks_Eng_.pdf

 

Wonder what the "9 digit" code for Thailand banks really is?  Or maybe the CPP webpage is just in error for Thailand?  Probably best to contact them and ask.  But bottom line the CPP sure sends to a lot of countries.

Yes. They say they send to a lot of countries, if you can get all the numbers to coincide. I have asks CPP and the BKK bank about the 9 digit number and get nowhere with either

[dormouse]

On the SMART Member Bank list on the Bangkok Bank website the
Bank of America has code number 027. That might be the "missing"
three digits.
So, the required 9 digit code would then be:
027 002 (Bangkok Bank) xxx (branch code)

[Pib]

I think I would ask the CPP again what they mean by bank code.  Looking through the list of countries CPP sends to several other times they also call out for the branch/bank code versus something specific like a SWIFT code or sort/ABA code 

 

But for some countries where they ask for bank/branch code sometimes it 3 digits, sometimes 6 digits, sometimes 8 digits, sometimes 9 digits, etc.   

 

I also see that Bank of America has the contract to manage the CPP foreign payments.  Expect that's why dormouse is seeing some Bank of America info in his payment?  

 

Yeap, think I would contact CPP and ask what do you mean by bank/branch code...it so unspecific in relation to other countries where CPP is more specific. 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, DanBlack said:

Yes. They say they send to a lot of countries, if you can get all the numbers to coincide. I have asks CPP and the BKK bank about the 9 digit number and get nowhere with either

 

@DanBlack: Heck, on the CPP signup form just provide the Bangkok Bank SWIFT code of BKKBTHBK and your Bangkok Bank account number and then let the CPP/Bank of America figure out the rest.    Plus, by going this route you may not have to sign up for the special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account that has certain restrictions which seems to be focused towards payments from U.S. govt agencies only.  This way you could still used you current standard Bangkok Bank account with no restrictions.  And the transfer may be totally fee free and maybe even a better exchange rate under the CPP than you would get with the Thai bank as BoA would have probably converted the Canadian dollars to Thai baht already.   Maybe dormouse could give more insight on if any fees are involved by BoA or the receiving bank....does the exchange happen in Thailand or by BoA...that is BoA sends baht over vs Canadian dollars, etc.

 

@dormouse: Question to dormouse: when you signed up for Direct Deposit to your Kaiskorn bank account do you remember what bank code you used....like maybe their SWIFT code...or maybe this SMART code you are mentioned in a couple of posts  which is still kinda undefiined.  

 

Maybe the SMART code thing is an internal Thailand transfer thing...like between Thai banks.  But to get the money into Thailand transfer methods such as SWIFT are used.   Like BoA in Thailand gets the CPP Direct Deposit from the BoA in North America and then BoA Thailand used the SMART system to relay the funds over to your Kaiskorn branch.  I kinda guessing here.

[dormouse]

When I became eligible for the CPP, more than three years ago, I had the same
problems with finding a 9 digit sorting code. I could only come up with 6 digits for
bank and branch.
As it seemed direct deposit could not be arranged, the Canadian pension office
started sending me cheques (I don't have a Canadian bank account), which
actually worked quite well. I noticed that the cheques were drawn on the
Bank of America office in Bangkok.
I figured that direct deposits might come through this same Bank of America
Bangkok office and were in fact domestic rather than international transfers.

I then wrote a letter to the Canadian pension office discussing the above,
included the "domestic" 6 digit code (004 for Kasikornbank and xxx for
bank branch) and asked for direct deposit system to be set up.

CPP agreed and since 3 years I have been getting my pension directly deposited
into my Kasikornbank account. This is a normal savings account with
ATM/ debitcard.

[Pib]

Thanks dormouse.  Based on your description of how you did it, I'm going to guess you probably included more info in that letter like your full account number with Kaiskorn and then on the CPP/Bank of America end they figured out the complete info they needed.    

 

From looking at the Bank of Thailand website, SMART appears to be a subsystem system like BAHTNET which is managed by the Bank of Thailand and only used by Thai banks...just an internal Thailand thing. 

https://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/PaymentSystems/Pages/StatPaymentTransactions.aspx

 

Plus, just using the three digits assigned under SMART for BoA Thailand, Kaiskorn, and then the Kaiskorn 3 digit branch code what sequence do you put them in to develop a 9 digit number...BoA first, Kaiskorn 2nd, and then branch code?  Or maybe Kaiskorn Ist, branch code next, and then BoA code?  Several other combo possible.  Yea, I think that is just an internal Thailand transfer system available only to Thai banks.  And BoA in North America who has the CPP payment contract just sends the payment to their branch in Thailand who relays it over to Kaiskorn using SMART which seems to be a business related transfer system.     

 

From looking at the Foreign payment sign up form, my guess is a person would just need to provide the SWIFT code for their branch and their account number....no Sort or IBAN code needed....just the SWIFT code and account code.  And of course the other info on the form like address, etc.   Then Bank of America figures out the rest to transfer it to Thailand "with their Thailand branch" acting as a middle man kinda like an intermediary/correspondent bank...a middle man which is basically invisible to the customer other than some coding he might see on his account documenting the transfer.

[DanBlack]

I will try sending my smart code, my branch code, the swift code, and my account number. See if they can come up with 9 digits. 

Too bad it is impossible to get through on their phone number, and they won't give an email.

[DanBlack]

23 minutes ago, DanBlack said:

I will try sending my smart code, my branch code, the swift code, and my account number. See if they can come up with 9 digits. 

Too bad it is impossible to get through on their phone number, and they won't give an email.

I am starting to get the impression the 9 digit number is the routing number for the BKK bank in New York.

[lopburi3]

Quote

ABA RTNs are only for use in payment transactions within the United States

Perhaps if Canada using Bank of America they could then use that ABA 9 digit number however?  But there would then have to be the normal Thai 10 digit number to get it into your account.

[Pib]

I doubt the 9 digit code mention on the CPP website is Bangkok Bank NY branch ABA code as that ABA code can only be used for Bangkok Bank accounts...not other Thai banks like Kaiskorn which dormouse uses.

I recommend again the Bangkok Bank SWIFT code and account number be included on the sign up form by the OP.

Leave the other blocks for bank digits blank as they don't apply for Thailand. Like IBAN for example...that's only a European bank thing...Thai banks don't use IBAN.

[DanBlack]

As a few people put a lot of effort into their responses, I though I would give you a follow up. I did not hear anything after I sent the letter to them over 3 months ago, and had given up. To my pleasant surprise I received a direct deposit today. I assume it is my pension payment because it is the same amount with the 33% early claim deduction, and the 25% out of country deduction. Might be helpful to my fellow countrymen

[allane]

Nice of you to come back. so, exactly what did you use for a "sort code"? I am will probably want this in a few years.

[DanBlack]

13 hours ago, allane said:

Nice of you to come back. so, exactly what did you use for a "sort code"? I am will probably want this in a few years

I sent only the numbers I had. I let them "sort" it out