U.S. likely to expand airline laptop ban to Europe - government officials

[webfact]

U.S. likely to expand airline laptop ban to Europe - government officials

By Mark Hosenball and David Shepardson

REUTERS

 

FILE PHOTO: A man uses his laptop to test a new high speed inflight Internet service named Fli-Fi while on a special JetBlue media flight out of John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York in this December 11, 2013 file picture. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson/Files

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration is likely to expand a ban on laptops on commercial aircraft to include some European countries, but is reviewing how to ensure lithium batteries stored in luggage holds do not explode in midair, officials briefed on the matter said on Wednesday.

 

Any expansion of the ban could impact U.S. carriers such as United Airlines, Delta Air Lines Inc and American Airlines Group. Six U.S. and European officials said they expect the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to make an announcement but declined to say when.

 

DHS officials plan to meet with airline industry officials on Thursday to discuss security issues, two people briefed on the matter said. Also on Thursday, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly will give a classified briefing to senators about domestic threats and airline issues are expected to be discussed, a congressional aide briefed on the matter said.

 

In March, the U.S. announced laptop restrictions on flights originating from 10 airports including in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey because of fears that a concealed bomb could be installed in electronic devices taken onto aircraft.

 

Britain quickly followed suit with restrictions on a slightly different set of routes. One European official acknowledged that the expanded ban could affect flights to the United States from Britain.

 

DHS spokesman Dave Lapan said Kelly "hasn't made a decision but we continue to evaluate the threat environment and have engaged in discussions with airline representatives and other stakeholders about the threat."

 

Some U.S. airlines have been making plans in the event of an order to require them to bar passengers from travelling to the United States without larger electronics in the cabin, airline officials briefed on the matter said.

 

The U.S. laptop ban and on other electronic devices larger than cell phones has affected direct flights to the United States by Royal Jordanian Airlines, Egypt Air, Turkish Airlines, Saudi Arabian Airlines, Kuwait Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Qatar Airways, Emirates and Etihad Airways.

 

One issue under discussion is how to ensure that lithium batteries in any large collection of devices stored in airplane holds do not explode in midair, officials told Reuters.

 

European regulators have warned placing what could be potentially hundreds of devices in the hold on long-haul flights could compromise safety by increasing the risk of fire from poorly deactivated lithium-ion batteries.

 

Peter Goelz, a former managing director at the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States, said a significant expansion of the in-cabin ban on larger electronics "is going to represent a major logistical problem for airlines."

 

Goelz said more money needs to be spent to improve screening.

 

"It is very difficult to determine whether a dense object is actually a battery or a plastic explosive," Goelz said.

 

On Tuesday, Reuters reported that a United Nations agency has begun an effort to craft global guidance for the use of laptops and other portable electronics in passenger aircraft cabins after the bans upset airline passengers and Middle Eastern carriers.

 

The International Civil Aviation Organization met on Tuesday to debate the issue after the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and other countries complained their airlines had been unduly penalized by the decision, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

 

Airports and airlines in Europe have already been working on plans for a possible extension of the ban since the U.S. announced the first restrictions on larger electronic devices in the cabin, according to several industry sources.

 

    Issues that need to be resolved include how best to inform passengers of any new restrictions to keep disruption at airports to a minimum. On the operational side, measures such as stopping online check-in for U.S. bound flights or ensuring U.S. flights depart from a dedicated part of terminals are among ideas being mulled, although no decisions have yet been taken.

 

(Reporting by David Shepardson and Mark Hosenball; additional reporting by Victoria Bryan in Berlin and Tim Hepher in Paris; Editing by Yara Bayoumy and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-11

[oldcarguy]

Ohh this is going to be fun........

 

if its unsafe to be in the cabin , then as said above its MORE unsafe to put 50 laptops in a big box next to each other,  so that would be the next ban ,

 

will every seat now have a pencil sharpener  and a pad of paper for tic tac toe :)

[Langsuan Man]

All the back and forth from the airlines has to do with the economic impact in their investment in aircraft WiFi, which they hoped to be another big revenue stream

 

I seriously doubt there will be many passengers willing to fork over the fees, just to use their tablets @ 30,000 feet 

[VMOMMO]

Trump is going to bring typewriter manufacturing back to the USA. 

No more computers. 

[Salerno]

45 minutes ago, oldcarguy said:

will every seat now have a pencil sharpener  and a pad of paper for tic tac toe :)

Hell no, there'll be an outbreak of people being stabbed with a sharp pencil or killed with rolled up paper!

[williamgeorgeallen]

40 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

All the back and forth from the airlines has to do with the economic impact in their investment in aircraft WiFi, which they hoped to be another big revenue stream

 

I seriously doubt there will be many passengers willing to fork over the fees, just to use their tablets @ 30,000 feet 

new technology. in the future passengers will refuse to fly on flights without wifi and it will have to be provided at a reasonable rate or free to attract customers. being able to work on a long haul flight will be a great time saver for many of us as well. can make up for all the time spent on TV.

[oldcarguy]

I can live without a computer in the cabin , but I would like to have one on my trip,

 

I  hope someone starts selling insurance for the sticky finger baggage handlers who are just smiling !

I might just leave a "throwaway"  laptop at a couple buddies houses  just in case

 

 

[Briggsy]

I never use my laptop in the cabin but I have strong reservations about having to put it in my check-in luggage or entrusting it to the baggage handlers. Sooner or later, it will be stolen or damaged.

[HappyinNE]

Why not just take the battery out and put the battery in the checked luggage?  Could use the computer is you had a power source available.  Let airlines put in available power and also in the boarding area.  

 

If no power available at least you keep the actual computer so it is not stolen.

[taichiplanet]

1 hour ago, HappyinNE said:

Why not just take the battery out and put the battery in the checked luggage?  Could use the computer is you had a power source available.  Let airlines put in available power and also in the boarding area.  

 

If no power available at least you keep the actual computer so it is not stolen.

some (all?) airlines ban batteries  over a certain size in checked baggage, even stating that spare batteries must goes in carry-on baggage!

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/dangerous-goods/global/en#electronic-devices-powered-by-batteries

[Farang hunter]

I really don't understand those who are in deep love with their laptops, go ahead ban all destinations.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, oldcarguy said:

Ohh this is going to be fun........

 

if its unsafe to be in the cabin , then as said above its MORE unsafe to put 50 laptops in a big box next to each other,  so that would be the next ban ,

 

will every seat now have a pencil sharpener  and a pad of paper for tic tac toe :)

Not at all. It is within the capabilities of engineers to design a container with battery explosion proof compartments that does not weigh too much. Some sort of rigid foam would work.

Safer than having people carry their computer in the bag, which could start a fire.

Otherwise they could bring in a worldwide ban on even taking computers on planes. It would stop the bagpackers sitting in restaurants and facebooking their imaginary friends all day while on holiday in LOS, so perhaps a good thing.

I'd like to see a ban on using mobiles on planes. I know it hasn't come in yet but I know they want to bring it in. Would save me having to sit next to some ^%^%^%^&%&^ gossiping on his phone. It's bad enough on the bus having some chav shouting that she's "on the bus".

Honestly, the way some people are carrying on, one would wonder how we got on in the ancient days before laptops existed.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I never use my laptop in the cabin but I have strong reservations about having to put it in my check-in luggage or entrusting it to the baggage handlers. Sooner or later, it will be stolen or damaged.

I used to think that, but the advent of the cellophane bag wrap has made it safe to leave computer in the bag. I do take on an external HDD with everything on it just in case.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

new technology. in the future passengers will refuse to fly on flights without wifi and it will have to be provided at a reasonable rate or free to attract customers. being able to work on a long haul flight will be a great time saver for many of us as well. can make up for all the time spent on TV.

Really? I doubt that everyone needs to have a machine at all times, and certainly not to the point of refusing to fly with an airline that won't.

I could be wrong of course. The machines have turned so many people into zombies that you might be right.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not at all. It is within the capabilities of engineers to design a container with battery explosion proof compartments that does not weigh too much. Some sort of rigid foam would work.

Safer than having people carry their computer in the bag, which could start a fire.

Otherwise they could bring in a worldwide ban on even taking computers on planes. It would stop the bagpackers sitting in restaurants and facebooking their imaginary friends all day while on holiday in LOS, so perhaps a good thing.

I'd like to see a ban on using mobiles on planes. I know it hasn't come in yet but I know they want to bring it in. Would save me having to sit next to some ^%^%^%^&%&^ gossiping on his phone. It's bad enough on the bus having some chav shouting that she's "on the bus".

Honestly, the way some people are carrying on, one would wonder how we got on in the ancient days before laptops existed.

Maybe you missed it, but backpackers do not use a laptop for their facebook, they have mobile phones for that. (Nearly) the only people using laptops are those needing it for work.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Maybe you missed it, but backpackers do not use a laptop for their facebook, they have mobile phones for that. (Nearly) the only people using laptops are those needing it for work.

Things change so fast I can't keep up. I originally was going to say e mailing, but of course they don't do that any more either.

 

If someone is such a work slave that they have to do it on the plane, I pity them. If that is so, no wonder the world is a totally f***** up place.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Things change so fast I can't keep up. I originally was going to say e mailing, but of course they don't do that any more either.

 

If someone is such a work slave that they have to do it on the plane, I pity them. If that is so, no wonder the world is a totally f***** up place.

The plane is also a means of transport. If people go on business they take it from one place to the next.

[Dexlowe]

People have always been the biggest problem with flying. Why on earth aren't they banned?

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Really? I doubt that everyone needs to have a machine at all times, and certainly not to the point of refusing to fly with an airline that won't.

I could be wrong of course. The machines have turned so many people into zombies that you might be right.

people are addicted to their smart phones, kids get angry without a tablet. we are still just at the start of the whole internet craze as it has only been mainstream for about 20 years. you cant rent out accommodation  without internet access and soon travel will be the same.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Maybe you missed it, but backpackers do not use a laptop for their facebook, they have mobile phones for that. (Nearly) the only people using laptops are those needing it for work.

 

Its not just lap-tops its any electrical device larger than an iPhone 6 Plus (or 7+)... 

Which means, iPads, Tablets etc are also banned... thats going to be a real headache if you are traveling with a Child.

 

I hope the reasons for these bans are based on real security concerns and not just a knee-jerk response to someones suspicions or risk. IF it means we are safer, then fair enough. But, really, IF a serious explosive can be placed in a tablet, it can be placed in a phone... Soon we are at risk of being prevented from traveling with any electronics at all... 

 

This is no longer the 'thin end of the wedge', we are well into the 'wedge'.....

 

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Things change so fast I can't keep up. I originally was going to say e mailing, but of course they don't do that any more either.

 

If someone is such a work slave that they have to do it on the plane, I pity them. If that is so, no wonder the world is a totally f***** up place.

 

Try flying across the pond watching an airline approved movie on that 12" monitor that drops out of the ceiling 4 rows up, with subtitles because it's not an English speaking airline.  That's 12-13 hours of your life (and sanity) you'll never get back.

 

Then, when it's time to make a presentation for that critical business meeting you flew across the pond for, find out your checked luggage is missing, but they'll happily deliver it to your hotel as soon as it comes back from Nepal.  By which time you'll be wheels up for your return flight after that business presentation disaster.

 

Anticipating that it's going to happen worldwide soon- since terrorists are smart enough to transit through a county where they don't ban laptops- I bought a stick computer and loaded it up with all the business software (and music and videos) so I'm not totally screwed even if they lose my laptop that I wasn't allowed to carry with me.  Smaller than a cell phone and no internal battery.  Sucks, but I'm ready...

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by impulse

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Try flying across the pond watching an airline approved movie on that 12" monitor that drops out of the ceiling 4 rows up, with subtitles because it's not an English speaking airline.  That's 12-13 hours of your life (and sanity) you'll never get back.

 

Then, when it's time to make a presentation for that critical business meeting you flew across the pond for, find out your checked luggage is missing, but they'll happily deliver it to your hotel as soon as it comes back from Nepal.  By which time you'll be wheels up for your return flight after that business presentation disaster.

 

Anticipating that it's going to happen worldwide soon- since terrorists are smart enough to transit through a county where they don't ban laptops- I bought a stick computer and loaded it up with all the business software (and music and videos) so I'm not totally screwed even if they lose my laptop that I wasn't allowed to carry with me.  Smaller than a cell phone and no internal battery.  Sucks, but I'm ready...

 

LOL. I used to fly Saudia to LOS all the time so nothing could beat that for dire. We had movies on a big screen at the front of the cabin so anyone standing up blocked it, and they censored the meaning out of any movie shown.

However, it was only a six hour flight and was usually half empty, so I was able to get a good sleep lying across 4 seats.

 

On one fuller flight I moved to a row with only one Saudi man in it after take off, but was informed by his wife in the row behind that he wanted the entire row for himself. I think I laughed at her and sat in it anyway. It was going to LOS, so they couldn't have me arrested on arrival in Riyadh.

Life was certainly more interesting in those days, even if we didn't have any of the zombie machines that we have now.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Life was certainly more interesting in those days, even if we didn't have any of the zombie machines that we have now.

 

Most of my international flights either started or ended in China, all with one leg of at least 10 hours, usually on crappy old jets, often with Chinese movies.  

 

Some combination of laptops, tablets and Ambien were the only options to maintain sanity.  Benadryl would work in a pinch if I couldn't get Ambien.

[just.a.thought]

They were banned from checked luggage,in the first place, because of the fire hazard, yet again the US make no sense at all.

[impulse]

11 hours ago, just.a.thought said:

They were banned from checked luggage,in the first place, because of the fire hazard, yet again the US make no sense at all.

 

Just another example where the terrorists are winning just by making us afraid.  

 

If, as UBL stated, their objective is to bankrupt the corrupt western societies, they have scored a major win without even showing up at an airport.

 

[YetAnother]

this policy would affect my flight plans; so we, and our travel agents, would need to be able to check which routes are affected

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Just another example where the terrorists are winning just by making us afraid.  

 

If, as UBL stated, their objective is to bankrupt the corrupt western societies, they have scored a major win without even showing up at an airport.

 

Yes indeed. As history proves, all civilizations fall after they become corrupt and rotten from within. The west is well on the way to ending going by current behaviour. They are just giving in to the terrorists on everything. This is just the current example of how gutless the west has become.

Exemplified by the crying because people won't be able to use their machine for a few hours. How do they manage to sleep without using their machine .

To think, shock horror, that once upon a time we managed to survive without laptops, PCs, smartphones ( there's an oxymoron! ), seatback tv screens, or having to be "connected" 24/7. How did we do it?????????????

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To think, shock horror, that once upon a time we managed to survive without laptops, PCs, smartphones ( there's an oxymoron! ), seatback tv screens, or having to be "connected" 24/7. How did we do it?????????????

 

Back then, you just stretched out with all that extra legroom they gave you, fired up a cigarette, ordered a few free drinks, and hit on the young and cute flight attendants- who didn't give you that ball shriveling glare.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by impulse

[the guest]

The answer is to ban all devices on airlines if they pose a significant risk to passengers or indeed the airliner themselves.

[kevkev1888]

Just check it in. You know they will take good care. No problems.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by kevkev1888