Honda Africa Twin CFR1000l (My opinion)

[papa al]

7 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

The 2018 model have big updates, more power from mid range, bigger tank, lighter balance shaft, new suspension and more.

This must also piss off current owners that they change the bike so much after 1-2 years on the market further dropping the value on the "old" model.

Should't matter if planing on riding, not selling.

[BBJ]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:47 AM, guzzi850m2 said:

The 2018 model have big updates, more power from mid range, bigger tank, lighter balance shaft, new suspension and more.

This must also piss off current owners that they change the bike so much after 1-2 years on the market further dropping the value on the "old" model.

Or, you could buy a secondhand unit or a deal on the 2017, and with the money saved, turn it into the 'TRUE' adventure bike honda marketed it as.  Despite the minor changes to 2018, for proper adventure, the new suspension will not match Hyperpro or similar.

[BBJ]

More opinions about the bike here:

Africa Twin CRF1000l – A User’s Gripe

 

There is no doubt the Africa Twin CRF1000l is an excellent machine with a strong heritage and the name Honda, synonymous with reliability.  World Wide sales have been impressive and an award for Bike of the Year in some places.  But as good as the bike is, like any other machine, it has flaws making you ask, “For the love of god, why Honda?”

 

How Very Dare you!

 

Blood is thicker than water, so they say.  And brand loyalty can be a serious sore point for some when it comes to criticism.  For the large majority, the Africa Twin is their perfect machine, and they’ll have it no other way.  But let’s be serious for a second here, there is no perfect steed.  Marketing, like any other brand, does have a strong influence on our purchasing decision.

I own an Africa Twin CRF1000l, so this review or rant, call it what you will, comes from a rider who waited three years in anticipation.  I fended off my other options for a GS and KTM in favour of the AT due to its price, and one has to admit, those clever Honda ads riding through the desert sands and hilly climbs, waiting longingly for the next adventure ad to wet my buds!  I have to point out here, we arenot supported by Honda, so that you get my drift.

If you’re one of the very few like me that ride this bike for its designed/marketed purpose, there are plenty of gripes that’ll have you effin’ and jeffin’ after a couple of 1000km or so.  But let’s distinguish the riders’ view of a perfect machine from those who have a few complaints.

 

Rider Variations

 

We’ve all fallen for reviews on various channels, but it’s worth remembering reviews based on short time possession will not discover niggles.  Manufacturers tend to lend their test vehicles for a few days to a week.  Hardly enough time to get to know the bike.  Personal ownership reviews tend to be the best, and of course, vary in great detail.

Most riders it has to be said, will never take their perfect machine off road.  Many have also worked their way up the ranks from a lesser bike or ordered a different menu from their previous crotch rocket.  The Africa Twin has attracted many bikers who have never considered an adventure bike before and have always stayed on the black stuff.  And in Thailand, but not limited to, a breed of Africa Twin owners riding with empty hard touring cases!

http://www.drivernrider.com/2017/09/29/honda-africa-twin-review/

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by BBJ

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, BBJ said:

More opinions about the bike here:

Africa Twin CRF1000l – A User’s Gripe

 

There is no doubt the Africa Twin CRF1000l is an excellent machine with a strong heritage and the name Honda, synonymous with reliability.  World Wide sales have been impressive and an award for Bike of the Year in some places.  But as good as the bike is, like any other machine, it has flaws making you ask, “For the love of god, why Honda?”

 

How Very Dare you!

 

Blood is thicker than water, so they say.  And brand loyalty can be a serious sore point for some when it comes to criticism.  For the large majority, the Africa Twin is their perfect machine, and they’ll have it no other way.  But let’s be serious for a second here, there is no perfect steed.  Marketing, like any other brand, does have a strong influence on our purchasing decision.

I own an Africa Twin CRF1000l, so this review or rant, call it what you will, comes from a rider who waited three years in anticipation.  I fended off my other options for a GS and KTM in favour of the AT due to its price, and one has to admit, those clever Honda ads riding through the desert sands and hilly climbs, waiting longingly for the next adventure ad to wet my buds!  I have to point out here, we arenot supported by Honda, so that you get my drift.

If you’re one of the very few like me that ride this bike for its designed/marketed purpose, there are plenty of gripes that’ll have you effin’ and jeffin’ after a couple of 1000km or so.  But let’s distinguish the riders’ view of a perfect machine from those who have a few complaints.

 

Rider Variations

 

We’ve all fallen for reviews on various channels, but it’s worth remembering reviews based on short time possession will not discover niggles.  Manufacturers tend to lend their test vehicles for a few days to a week.  Hardly enough time to get to know the bike.  Personal ownership reviews tend to be the best, and of course, vary in great detail.

Most riders it has to be said, will never take their perfect machine off road.  Many have also worked their way up the ranks from a lesser bike or ordered a different menu from their previous crotch rocket.  The Africa Twin has attracted many bikers who have never considered an adventure bike before and have always stayed on the black stuff.  And in Thailand, but not limited to, a breed of Africa Twin owners riding with empty hard touring cases!

http://www.drivernrider.com/2017/09/29/honda-africa-twin-review/

 

Good informative post. That's you in the linked write up innit?

Me, I like road bikes for the road and trials bikes for er, off the road.

I'm too old to hurt myself nowadays on a fast as f##k enduro type bike. Let alone fall off at +100 kmph on a CRFL 1000 on a dirt road.

[BBJ]

^Considering a road as well.  Liking the Triumph Bobber a bit.

[CMKiwi]

A good linked write up from an off road riders perspective.  I agree in what you say.... reviews done by someone who has 'loaned' the bike for a few days dont really hold muchtractioninmyopinionqqMet

 

Met a guy today at CM Immigration.  He had just rode down from Chiang Rai on his 3 month old Honda Rebel.  It had a fair bit of dirt on it and I commented that its good to see some one that actually rides their bike...instead of leaving it in the garage, too afraid to get it dirty.  

 

Come on Honda.... listen to your customers and sort out the problems 'real' riders have identified.  Id always put an offroad fender /front mudguard on an ADV bike. Why?  Cause if the rider goes off road as explained in the above link. An on road fender can only take so much mud before it jams your wheel tight.  Off road fenders still do the job required when 'On road'.  That ones really a no brainer.  

 

And how about a Honda 500 Africa Twin?  It would be a lot lighter than the 1000 and I do believe there is a market for such a bike...but have it more off road orientated.  Fix up the probelms with the CRF1000 and use a 500 as a stepping board.  

 

I am quite loyal to Honda but they also need to be loyal to their customers.  Yamaha is progressing in leaps and bounds in the scooter/super scooter catergory.  Honda better beware should Yamaha go into the ADV scene.  Suzuki are also there and their V Strom is one nice looking bike and has recieved some very favourable comments.

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

Honda better beware should Yamaha go into the ADV scene

Like with the Tenere? :)

 

BMW has just refreshed their middleweight ADV bikes and KTM is bringing a 790cc ADV bike.

 

All these will be taking sales from the AT I think. Honda could implement a few improvements which would make the AT more interesting to buyers and it would cost next to nothing. Like the very good points raised by BBJ. Or the 2018 model having ride-by-wire but no cruise control (for the onroad tourers). Makes no sense. Sometimes I have no idea what the managers at Honda are thinking. Without competition, I think they'd be in complete stasis :). But on the other hand I'm really happy with my AT and the service I'm getting from Bigwing.

[guzzi850m2]

All respect to BBJ that actually uses his bikes off road and not only on tarmac.

I was at some point interested in the At myself but after some serious soul searching concluded that such a bike would be wasted on me. Also too old now and with my riding style, no need for one.

Triumph T120 is still high on the wish list, and off course the awesome looking Bobber that will be impossible unpratilcal with the tinny gas tank.

Brand bitch, never! Owned HD, Suzuki, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi and currently a Kawasaki V650 mk3 and I loved them all and none of them gave me (big) problems.

[DILLIGAD]

All respect to BBJ that actually uses his bikes off road and not only on tarmac.

I was at some point interested in the At myself but after some serious soul searching concluded that such a bike would be wasted on me. Also too old now and with my riding style, no need for one.

Triumph T120 is still high on the wish list, and off course the awesome looking Bobber that will be impossible unpratilcal with the tinny gas tank.

Brand bitch, never! Owned HD, Suzuki, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi and currently a Kawasaki V650 mk3 and I loved them all and none of them gave me (big) problems.

I’d love an AT but Will not get one for exactly the same reasons. Also something seems right about me getting (my 4th Bonnie) but feel a Tiger XRx would be better suited to my needs and it’s not often that my head outsmarts my heart. Z900rs is Oh, so tempting too (available next month, so I hear)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonnyF]

On 11/14/2017 at 12:41 PM, papa al said:

Should't matter if planing on riding, not selling.

You wouldn't want those upgrades if you were actually riding the bike?

 

I'm looking forward to some reviews of the all new 2018 BMW's, the 750 on the left is very tempting as a touring bike and it looks like they've aimed at the AT with the 850 on the right. Both nice looking and decent specs but maybe a bit pricey in Thailand?

 

[CMKiwi]

BMW pricey in Thailand?  Nah never!  I do like the look of those two model mind.  I'll have to put them in my bucket list of purchased and then they will probably end up in the pool room...   

 

Cheers cobber

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, CMKiwi said:

BMW pricey in Thailand?  Nah never!  I do like the look of those two model mind.  I'll have to put them in my bucket list of purchased and then they will probably end up in the pool room...   

 

Cheers cobber

The old F800 was 550k if I remember correct, the 700 was under 500k. So if they keep the prices similar for the 2018 750 and 850 models then they're in the same ball park as the AT.

 

[eisfeld]

JonnyF remembers correctly (depending on the exact model). Here's the pricelist: http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.th/th/en/price_and_finance/price_and_finance_list.html

 

I suspect BMW to raise prices a little bit with the new models. Question is if they bring these for 2018 to Thailand as BMW Thailand sometimes lags at least a year behind the release schedule compared to Europe.

 

The F850GS has pretty much the same power and torque figures to the AT, same weight pretty much but many more features. You can get electronic suspension and a full color TFT display which can display navigation info from your phone. Those are pretty nice features. The AT will be considerably cheaper in the long run (service and parts) and I have a better feeling with Honda in terms of service, parts availability etc. For me those are pretty strong points for an ADV bike. But I can see a lot of people going for the BMW because of looks, badge and/or features. Oh and tubeless tires with spokes!

 

BTW just yesterday spoke to a R1200GS rider on the road and asked how he likes the BMW dealer in Phuket. He said he's now waiting 4 months for a part that needs replacing because of a recall (and they are assembling the bike in Thailand now so you'd think they'd have spare parts)...

Edited November 17, 2017 by eisfeld

[Calach]

Thanks a lot that's a very useful, practical review. I just did a Bangkok-Kuala Lumpur round-trip on my ER6n and that convinced me I had to upgrade if I intended to do more long trips like that. I am seriously considering the AT as it seems quite well balanced for my use and the sound and looks are just too irresistible. 

 

Did you have to wait very long to receive it after placing the order ?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Calach said:

Thanks a lot that's a very useful, practical review. I just did a Bangkok-Kuala Lumpur round-trip on my ER6n and that convinced me I had to upgrade if I intended to do more long trips like that. I am seriously considering the AT as it seems quite well balanced for my use and the sound and looks are just too irresistible. 

 

Did you have to wait very long to receive it after placing the order ?

Versys 650 are good anyone can buy mine anytime, l've toured much of Thailand all except Nan.  

Edited November 21, 2017 by Kwasaki

[SumetCycle]

Recently installed an old generic titanium can we had at the shop. Also added a Rapid Bike Easy fuel module by Dimsport. It plugs in-line with the O2 sensor and keeps the air fuel ratio between 13.5 and 14.5. Haven't done a dyno, but the engine runs cooler with much better throttle response and smoother acceleration. IMO, noticeably better acceleration and more power. It can be used with the stock exhaust or aftermarket. You just need to put the dials at the appropriate settings and get benefits either way.  Ordered mine from Calsport out of the UK if anyone else is interested.

 

http://www.dimsport.it/en/rapidbike/easy/

 

https://rapidbike.us/about

 

http://www.dimsport.it/en/news/dimsport/africa-twin-crf-1000-improved-by-rapid-bike/

Edited November 21, 2017 by SumetCycle

[SumetCycle]

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, SumetCycle said:

I have not bother much with tuning from OEM on any bike l've had,  only cosmetic, so are the costs really worth the gains.

Surely it's just a personal thingy. 

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

I have not bother much with tuning from OEM on any bike l've had,  only cosmetic, so are the costs really worth the gains.

Surely it's just a personal thingy. 

New bikes, to meet increasing emission standards, have to be tuned very lean. An aftermarket adjustable piggyback can work wonders in improving off idle performance, where these bikes suffer the most. As well as compensate for any changes you make in exhaust or intake.

[eisfeld]

How do these systems that enrich the AF mix affect the longevity of the catalytic converter though? I know these cats can be a bit picky about the operating temperature and exhaust mix, would it be possible to damage something in the long run? I couldn't find any info on this.

 

I'm very interested in this mod as the bike can be a bit jerky at lower constant speeds and especially when in automatic mode and just rolling to a stop without manually shifting down early. I see you also have the DCT version of the bike, can you comment on these issues a bit in case you also experienced this, SumetCycle? I'm not interested in power gains, just want a super smooth ride.

[SumetCycle]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

How do these systems that enrich the AF mix affect the longevity of the catalytic converter though? I know these cats can be a bit picky about the operating temperature and exhaust mix, would it be possible to damage something in the long run? I couldn't find any info on this.

 

I'm very interested in this mod as the bike can be a bit jerky at lower constant speeds and especially when in automatic mode and just rolling to a stop without manually shifting down early. I see you also have the DCT version of the bike, can you comment on these issues a bit in case you also experienced this, SumetCycle? I'm not interested in power gains, just want a super smooth ride.

I'm not sure about affect on the catalytic converter. I plan on doing a full system eventually, in which case the cat will be gone anyway. It definitely smooths out the jerkiness at lower speeds. I read that the AT is in a closed loop until you are over 50% throttle opening for emissions requirements. This does away with all that, providing smooth and even throttle response throughout the RPM range. Really feels like a different bike. I think you'd be happy with it. The extra power is great, but I'm more pleased with the smoothness and improved throttle response. I'm not a speed demon or power junkie, but I like to have my bikes running at full potential without being overly neutered by the ECU. As a new rider, I would slap any old can on without consideration of proper AFR or potential damage. With this fuel module monitoring and controlling all that now, I'm not too worried. In fact, since richening up the fuel mixture, the engine runs a lot cooler. Helps a lot on hot days and when stuck in traffic. I'm no expert, but perhaps extend the engine lifespan as well. 

[thaiguzzi]

22 hours ago, SumetCycle said:

Recently installed an old generic titanium can we had at the shop. Also added a Rapid Bike Easy fuel module by Dimsport. It plugs in-line with the O2 sensor and keeps the air fuel ratio between 13.5 and 14.5. Haven't done a dyno, but the engine runs cooler with much better throttle response and smoother acceleration. IMO, noticeably better acceleration and more power. It can be used with the stock exhaust or aftermarket. You just need to put the dials at the appropriate settings and get benefits either way.  Ordered mine from Calsport out of the UK if anyone else is interested.

 

http://www.dimsport.it/en/rapidbike/easy/

 

https://rapidbike.us/about

 

http://www.dimsport.it/en/news/dimsport/africa-twin-crf-1000-improved-by-rapid-bike/

Interesting. Never even heard of them before. Checked the links, they seem proper. Been going a long time too. Just about every FI model made covered.

[BBJ]

^Is this a quick plug and play setup?  

 

Is it similar to using a Power Commander?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by BBJ

[SumetCycle]

This one has pre-programmed maps and controls the air fuel ratio, but there is no way access them or do any tuning. The knobs are to set the bike model and weather or not it has a stock or open aftermarket ehxaust. Besides Rapid Bike Easy, they have Rapid Bike Evo and Rapid Bike Race. Those allow you to access the maps and different tuning functions. I guess these would be similar to a Power Commander.

[Neilly]

@BBJNot sure if you've seen this vid on YT...in the comments below he says the suspension is stock but had both ends revalved...the Temi system sounds nice

 

 

 

[BBJ]

23 hours ago, Neilly said:

@BBJNot sure if you've seen this vid on YT...in the comments below he says the suspension is stock but had both ends revalved...the Temi system sounds nice

 

 

 

Thanks,  spoke to him a while back about his suspension.  Problem here is finding a reputable builder who knows what they are doing.  

[Neilly]

46 minutes ago, BBJ said:

Thanks,  spoke to him a while back about his suspension.  Problem here is finding a reputable builder who knows what they are doing.  

Might be worth giving Race Tech a shout and see if they have anything in the pipeline...there's nothing listed at the moment, but they're normally not too far behind releasing valve kits for new bikes

 

http://racetech.com/index.aspx