Jupiter Generator

[Isan Farang]

Today i had the repair guy take my gen set back to his shop and now waiting for an estimate, i am not willing to spend big bucks on this one due to the age.

 

I was just checking if anyone knows whare this JPD5 Silent may be available and an approximate cost.

[Gary A]

The first thing to look at is if the diesel is water cooled. Air cooled diesels have a much shorter life.

[Isan Farang]

51 minutes ago, Gary A said:

The first thing to look at is if the diesel is water cooled. Air cooled diesels have a much shorter life.

Can you show me an example of a single cylinder diesel engine gen set that is water cooled and available in Thailand.

 

The gen set i require is for stand by only when the mains electric fails or is under repair, and that is very seldom at my location.

 

My present petrol deal is 11 years old and had no major issues until today but perhaps it can repair for a reasonable cost.

[Gary A]

I have an 11 HP water cooled Kubota. (tak tak) I nearly bought a water cooled Yanmar. It was a toss up. Both are single cylinder and both are bulletproof. I also have a 5,000 watt benzine powered 13 HP chinese generator. Surprisingly it has been quite reliable, about 6 or 7 years old..

 

Many of the dealers will couple the Kubota or Yanmar with the suitable sized generator. Since my generator is not used that much, I opted for the much cheaper benzine powered unit. If you do some Internet research, I think you'll find the life of the benzine powered engine exceeds the life of air cooled diesels.

 

The generator runs a 1HP submersible water pump the is used for irrigation during the dry season. The farm is not connected to the electric grid, thus the generator.

[Crossy]

Jupiter gensets are definitely available here, the more knowledgeable will be along shortly with prices etc.

 

[kamalabob2]

Jupiter is a brand name of Kanto. The exact same model might be sold in a different color in a different store under another brand name. There is no "Jupiter Factory". Kanto is not famous for spare parts, yet most Chinese brands are under stocked in spare parts. There are youtube videos of the Jupiter generators sold in Thailand. There are better generators in the same power and price range in my casual observation. Certain some brands are more responsive with spare parts or prompt warranty repairs. Who ever you buy a generator from in Thailand be clear on who will do warranty repairs.  Anytime a product goes back to the manufacturer is a few weeks or months wait in my Thailand experiences. 

[farmerjo]

While on gensets,i bought this one yesterday basically looking to run internet,tv,fans and a light when the powers down.

On a lot of mine sites i have worked it's standard practice to run an earth to ground.

My question is,is it that important if under a roof or should i just turn it off if lightning is in the area as i want to keep it portable.

 

[Isan Farang]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:55 PM, Isan Farang said:

Can you show me an example of a single cylinder diesel engine gen set that is water cooled and available in Thailand.

 

The gen set i require is for stand by only when the mains electric fails or is under repair, and that is very seldom at my location.

 

My present petrol deal is 11 years old and had no major issues until today but perhaps it can repair for a reasonable cost.

I just got mine back from the repair shop.

 

1. Full service.

2. Replace front & rear crankshaft seal.

3. Replace the piston rings & grind in the valves.

4. Strip the carb and replace some jet.

 

They collected and returned to my home and the total cost was 2.800 Baht

[farmerjo]

Hi Isan Farang,

Do you have your genset earthed to ground.

[Isan Farang]

10 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Hi Isan Farang,

Do you have your genset earthed to ground.

No i have no earth to the ground, had the gen set for near 11 years and never had a single issue with the electrical side. My set is wired through a breaker switch and from the breaker switch to the main board, this was all done by my electric man.

 

Crossy is you your man for the electrical information.

[Crossy]

Just now, Isan Farang said:

Crossy is you your man for the electrical information.

 

It's quite usual for small generators to be run as IT connections (neither side grounded) and is generally not a hazard requiring a double-fault to earth before anyone is going to get zapped. Indeed any set which is dual voltage may be damaged by grounding one end.

 

Bigger sets require to be properly neutral grounded to be safe.

 

[Isan Farang]

12 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It's quite usual for small generators to be run as IT connections (neither side grounded) and is generally not a hazard requiring a double-fault to earth before anyone is going to get zapped. Indeed any set which is dual voltage may be damaged by grounding one end.

 

Bigger sets require to be properly neutral grounded to be safe.

 

I guess this is a stupid question after having my gen set connected 11 years ago.

 

As per the attached picture there is a earth connection on the front panel of the gen set, should there be a cable connected and if yes it goes to ?

[billd766]

On 18/05/2017 at 2:30 PM, kamalabob2 said:

Jupiter is a brand name of Kanto. The exact same model might be sold in a different color in a different store under another brand name. There is no "Jupiter Factory". Kanto is not famous for spare parts, yet most Chinese brands are under stocked in spare parts. There are youtube videos of the Jupiter generators sold in Thailand. There are better generators in the same power and price range in my casual observation. Certain some brands are more responsive with spare parts or prompt warranty repairs. Who ever you buy a generator from in Thailand be clear on who will do warranty repairs.  Anytime a product goes back to the manufacturer is a few weeks or months wait in my Thailand experiences. 

 

Wow.

 

An engine powered post holer.

 

We could have done with one of those 10 or 11 years ago when we put the fence around the land, about 12 rai of it.

[Crossy]

31 minutes ago, Isan Farang said:

As per the attached picture there is a earth connection on the front panel of the gen set, should there be a cable connected and if yes it goes to ?

 

By rights it should go to a rod, but in reality it wouldn't add any significant safety factor.

 

[billd766]

On 25/05/2017 at 1:04 PM, Crossy said:

 

It's quite usual for small generators to be run as IT connections (neither side grounded) and is generally not a hazard requiring a double-fault to earth before anyone is going to get zapped. Indeed any set which is dual voltage may be damaged by grounding one end.

 

Bigger sets require to be properly neutral grounded to be safe.

 

 

I am still looking around for a standby generator and at the moment the biggest I can source locally is about 6500Kva which I read the brochure correctly is about 5Kw.

 

Global house has some Bison generators but the diesels are all about the same power rating but costing 30,000 baht or more. Their petrol generators come in at about 16 to 17,000 baht though they did not have one of these in stock nor a price for it.

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/product-category/diesel-generator/

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/products/5kw-5-5kw-honda-gasoline-generator-gx390-bs5500/

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/products/7kw-4-stroke-18hp-192f-gasoline-generator-bs8500hh/

 

According to the specs it should chuck out about 7Kw.

 

I record my electricity bills and since April last year the highest average daily use was just over 44 units a day when it was very hot, and at the time I didn't have an a/c downstairs.

 

A several questions for you.

 

1   Do you think that a 7Kw generator would give enough power for 44 units a day for 2 to 5 hours of power outage?

 

2   Where could I find an automatic changeover switch without attempting to build one myself. I am now 73 and my mechanical skills are not as good as they used to be. I know that I will have to get the PEA guys in to rewire the existing main power cable to the changeover switch and back to our 2 houses.

 

3   As an alternative I have thought of a generator just to give me enough power to run to a socket in the main house for a standby. That would then run to my computers plus a 6 way socket for a fan and chargers with a second cable to run upstais to run up to 4 fans, several lights and the upstairs TV. Another connection direct from the generator just to run the water pump and another to run over to my neighbour, again just to run some fans, lights and computers.

 

4   To make the second (light) option work I would wire that up to standby sockets with NO connections to the house wiring and just replug the lights, fans, computers etc while the power is out, and then change back when the main power comes on again.

 

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

I am still looking around for a standby generator and at the moment the biggest I can source locally is about 6500Kva which I read the brochure correctly is about 5Kw.

 

Global house has some Bison generators but the diesels are all about the same power rating but costing 30,000 baht or more. Their petrol generators come in at about 16 to 17,000 baht though they did not have one of these in stock nor a price for it.

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/product-category/diesel-generator/

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/products/5kw-5-5kw-honda-gasoline-generator-gx390-bs5500/

 

https://www.bisonpower.net/products/7kw-4-stroke-18hp-192f-gasoline-generator-bs8500hh/

 

According to the specs it should chuck out about 7Kw.

 

I record my electricity bills and since April last year the highest average daily use was just over 44 units a day when it was very hot, and at the time I didn't have an a/c downstairs.

 

A several questions for you.

 

1   Do you think that a 7Kw generator would give enough power for 44 units a day for 2 to 5 hours of power outage?

 

2   Where could I find an automatic changeover switch without attempting to build one myself. I am now 73 and my mechanical skills are not as good as they used to be. I know that I will have to get the PEA guys in to rewire the existing main power cable to the changeover switch and back to our 2 houses.

 

3   As an alternative I have thought of a generator just to give me enough power to run to a socket in the main house for a standby. That would then run to my computers plus a 6 way socket for a fan and chargers with a second cable to run upstais to run up to 4 fans, several lights and the upstairs TV. Another connection direct from the generator just to run the water pump and another to run over to my neighbour, again just to run some fans, lights and computers.

 

4   To make the second (light) option work I would wire that up to standby sockets with NO connections to the house wiring and just replug the lights, fans, computers etc while the power is out, and then change back when the main power comes on again.

 

Hey Bill, your concern is not the units per day but the maximum watts required for say 2 minutes.  Like if you had two AC, two pumps, and two hot water heaters all powering up at the same time, you would easily blow the capacity of a 7KVA genset.  With diversity and maybe not using the hot shower or oven, 7 KVA should be more than enough for your situation.  I would go with 2 change-over switches though: one for your house and one for the other.  Maybe put the genset in the shed running a 6mm2 cable to each house/switch.  So, for the switch, it would be mains to one end, genset to the other end, with the middle connecting to the respective CU.  It would really complicate things to have only one change-over switch.  It used to be almost impossible to find a proper switch but getting better lately although you may have to order.  I brought in mine from the states. 

 

[Crossy]

+1 ^^^

 

An actual automatic transfer switch for the main house and a slave for the second house is not difficult to assemble, commercial units tend to be expensive

 

 

The harder bit is the generator controller, but if you buy a genset that is already "ATS ready" that bit is taken care of for you.

 

You should also arrange for your water heaters to not be powered by the genset by connecting them before the transfer switch.

 

if you're interested I can knock up some drawings and parts lists (most of the bits from AliExpress), let me know the rating (Amps) of your incoming breakers and the size of your meter (I'm assuming both are on the same meter).

 

[billd766]

7 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Hey Bill, your concern is not the units per day but the maximum watts required for say 2 minutes.  Like if you had two AC, two pumps, and two hot water heaters all powering up at the same time, you would easily blow the capacity of a 7KVA genset.  With diversity and maybe not using the hot shower or oven, 7 KVA should be more than enough for your situation.  I would go with 2 change-over switches though: one for your house and one for the other.  Maybe put the genset in the shed running a 6mm2 cable to each house/switch.  So, for the switch, it would be mains to one end, genset to the other end, with the middle connecting to the respective CU.  It would really complicate things to have only one change-over switch.  It used to be almost impossible to find a proper switch but getting better lately although you may have to order.  I brought in mine from the states. 

 

 

Hi Steve

 

I wouldn't run my 3 a/c units at athe same time on the generator anyway nor the 2 shower heaters at the same time.

My oven is only a small table top one and only gets used when I bake bread, roast a Sunday dinner or make toast first thing in the morning.

 

Currently (sorry) the power comes in from the meter and splits off when it gets to the main house with a shortish cable to there and a longer one to the small house.

 

The small house (used to be the MIL but she died a couple of years ago) has 2 freezers, 1 fridge freezer, 1 double door cooler cabinet, a small fridge and an old washing machine. There is also a shower heater but than is only used if the family come up once or twice a year.

 

The main house has 3 a/c units and 1 is sometimes used when the family come otherwise not used, my bedroom 1 gets used if it gets past 34C as does the downstairs one. The 2 showers are only used a couple of times a day and the heater is not always used then.

 

The rest of the stuff is fans, computers, TV and 1 fridge freezer plus a washing machine..

 

When we get a power outage (another one yesterday for 4 hours) the heavy use stuff, a/c and showers won't be used anyway.

 

If it comes off I will get the PEA to rewire the main power cable from the meter to one side of the changeover switch and then back to both houses using the normal power cable and possibly to the generator too. I have a covered workshop area that I can site the generator in and I want to modify the exhaust pipe so that it vents outside.

 

Why is it that I read the reply carefully before I post it, and as soon as it gets posted I spot a spelling mistake or 2?

[bankruatsteve]

Sorry Bill, I thought you were talking about Cat's house as the "other house" and which would be on separate meters.  In this case, you could go with one change-over switch no problem.

 

My internet down and using my phone.  Grrr.

[Crossy]

If you don't use the A/C or water heaters when on the genset (either by manual or automatic load shedding) then one of the low-cost 5-6kVA units (petrol or diesel) would do the job just fine.

 

We have a Kwai-Thong 6500 (about 5kVA) which happily runs our home apart from the water heaters and aircon. It will actually run one aircon but the aircon isn't happy for some reason and doesn't always start the compressor.

 

Our genset is electric start, but isn't ATS ready as delivered so I've built a generator controller (see my linked thread above).

 

Also note these open frame units are NOISY best to get a "silent" type which already has the necessary gubbins to work with an ATS (we had no choice when we got ours, we needed power urgently and took what was available).

 

[billd766]

58 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Sorry Bill, I thought you were talking about Cat's house as the "other house" and which would be on separate meters.  In this case, you could go with one change-over switch no problem.

 

My internet down and using my phone.  Grrr.

 

So that is who you are.

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So that is who you are.

 

I hope this is a happy enlightenment

[billd766]

18 hours ago, Crossy said:

+1 ^^^

 

An actual automatic transfer switch for the main house and a slave for the second house is not difficult to assemble, commercial units tend to be expensive

 

 

The harder bit is the generator controller, but if you buy a genset that is already "ATS ready" that bit is taken care of for you.

 

You should also arrange for your water heaters to not be powered by the genset by connecting them before the transfer switch.

 

if you're interested I can knock up some drawings and parts lists (most of the bits from AliExpress), let me know the rating (Amps) of your incoming breakers and the size of your meter (I'm assuming both are on the same meter).

 

 

The meter is the stadard one from the PEA which I think is 15/50, is that right?

 

That runs through a Safe-T-Cut and in to a standard 63 amp Siemens breaker box with 12 cct brkrs.

 

The downstairs a/c unit is paired off the mains input and from there to a separate  ccb.

 

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I hope this is a happy enlightenment

 

Yep.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

The downstairs a/c unit is paired off the mains input and from there to a separate  ccb.

 

I wish the A/C installers wouldn't do this, there's no reason to and it makes the installation messy.

[Crossy]

OK, so you're on a 15/45 and a 63A incomer.

 

Should be OK with 63A contactors, if you can read the drawings in my other thread you should be in business. Or I can draw out just the ATS part for your man to build for you.

 

Can you post a photo of your main board (is it Schneider / square-D) so we can work out how to load shed stuff you don't want on the generator.

[billd766]

46 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If you don't use the A/C or water heaters when on the genset (either by manual or automatic load shedding) then one of the low-cost 5-6kVA units (petrol or diesel) would do the job just fine.

 

We have a Kwai-Thong 6500 (about 5kVA) which happily runs our home apart from the water heaters and aircon. It will actually run one aircon but the aircon isn't happy for some reason and doesn't always start the compressor.

 

Our genset is electric start, but isn't ATS ready as delivered so I've built a generator controller (see my linked thread above).

 

Also note these open frame units are NOISY best to get a "silent" type which already has the necessary gubbins to work with an ATS (we had no choice when we got ours, we needed power urgently and took what was available).

 

 

Bison do this diesel model https://www.bisonpower.net/products/5kw-control-ats-module-digital-control-panel-power-diesel-generator-bs6500dse/

 

which is ats ready but at this point I have no idea of the cost. Fron what I have seen a petrol generator runs at around 16,xxx baht and a diesel at between 30 and 40,xxx baht.

 

It is only a 5 Kw model which has an exhaust level of 72db whereas the 7Kw runs at 94db.

 

If you could knock up a few drawings and send them to me I would be grateful.

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I wish the A/C installers wouldn't do this, there's no reason to and it makes the installation messy.

 

There was no space left in the Siemens breaker box. OTOH is is easy to isolate.

[billd766]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

OK, so you're on a 15/45 and a 63A incomer.

 

Should be OK with 63A contactors, if you can read the drawings in my other thread you should be in business. Or I can draw out just the ATS part for your man to build for you.

 

Can you post a photo of your main board (is it Schneider / square-D) so we can work out how to load shed stuff you don't want on the generator.

 

It is in an awkward place to photograph but basically here it is.

 

 

[Crossy]

19 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It is in an awkward place to photograph but basically here it is.

 

OK it's DIN mount so easy to modify, but it's full

 

I'll bet you could free up a few slots by combining circuits so we could slip in a contactor to isolate 1/2 the board for load shedding. You would likely have to move breakers around, hope the original sparks left enough cable.

 

Are all those breakers actually in use?

 

EDIT Easy to put the ATS between the Safe-T-Cut and the board.